I train and do longer distance races in the Wave Elixir. Like the Brooks ST5 (which I race in), Mizuno stopped making them several years ago. The replacement (Sayonora) just did not work for me. I now have a stockpile of seven new pairs of the Elixir in my closet. Should last several years. I hope.

Can someone explain why shoe companies do this (replace successful models)? They run the risk of alienating loyal customers.

I used to run in asic gel noosa and recently been using mizuno wave catalyst. It is a nice moderate stability shoe similar to gel noosa with a larger toe box.

The Wave Runner 16 was great for me. I bought a few pairs so I was able to skip the WR 17 that was widely hated. I bought the WR 18 and it was easily the worst shoe I've ever used. I didn't really like them to begin with, but I gave them a chance hoping I'd adjust. I was done with them after I ran a half marathon in them and I was left with huge blisters as a result of the redesigned logo on the instep. I also believe they were a contributing factor to suffering a stress fracture during that race.

My experience with the WR 18 has pushed me back to the Nike Pegasus, and I don't intend on buying another Mizuno any time soon.

I like that Mizuno continue to make comfortable lightweight low-drop runners, and do believe the waveplate propaganda. And they're easy to find in stores.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

I race long course in Wave Sayonara 2s ... great shoe ( after Saucony changed the fit of the Fastwitch 5's and I fell in between sizes.). They also go well with the LG M2 suit.

I've worn every model of Wave Rider since the Rider 9. I think there was only one model I had trouble with (the 13?). It rubbed my ankle in an odd way.

I have been in Waver Riders since the 7 or 8's. I missed a couple of models because they did not fit right.
Bought 5 pair of 16's a few years ago so I have been in them for the last couple of seasons.

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2017 Cervelo P2
2017 Cervelo S2
itraininla.com
#itraininla

The Catalyst is allegedly the return of the Elixir. It's pretty close, feels less cushioned.

Dunno much about the history of the brand but have been using the Wave Rider 19s without issue for a while now. With a decent pair of socks, I stopped having blisters and I like the light weight.

I've been in wave riders for years now. I always buy two pairs of last season's model when they are on close out.

Mizuno fangirl. No other shoe feels like my Mizunos.

I ran for a decade in Wave Elixirs... then they discontinued them and I stockpiled. So I was beyond stoked when they introduced the Catalyst, which I find to be an even better shoe.

In addition to my Catalysts, I race in the Hitogami, and just bought a pair of Daichi 2 with grippy Michelin rubber soles to run on snowy/icy/gravelly roads instead of turning an old pair of Mizunos into screw shoes.

Mizuno Wave Ronin (2008 model)



Described as "basically spikeless track flat" - just passed 1800 miles on this pair and they are worn down pretty good, well beyond recommended and into the second layer of material on the outside heel area. These felt like bedroom slippers from the moment I put them on and I won't part with them until forced to bury them. Nobody in their right mind would recommend these for me...but they just work.

I raced on/off in the Hitogami for a season.

I really like the fit but the thing I didn't like about them is that mine didn't let any air through them and my feet would start baking within a few miles. I drilled some holes in the soles to let the sweat out, that helped but I've moved onto a different race shoe.

If the definition of success is selling more shoes, the Elixir was a profound failure.

They didn't do a good job with the Sayonara story, though.

Ever try the Hitogami? Might give you what you're looking for.

I rue the death of the Musha. Mizuno used to make the two best flats in the business (Musha and Ronin). Alas...

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I thought the Sayonara was a replacement for the Precision.

The Elixir was very expensive, that's why I stopped using it as an intermediate distance shoe.

The way a Mizuno rep explained it to me was that they released the Sayonara to split the difference between the Precision and the Elixir and replaced both. Most Elixir users (including me) didn't like the Sayonara so they released the Catalyst as a more direct replacement for the Elixir.

I had a stock of Elixirs but have run out. Just started with the Catalyst, it's close but I can't really put my finger on how it's different from the Elixir.

Sayonara was the replacement for both the Elixir and Precision. Originally developed as the Precision 13, they realized that the platform width underfoot provided more stability than the Elixir did without having a medial post. So they scrapped both shoes and called it something new.

Elixir topped out at $115 if I remember correctly...right around the same time most performance trainers wound up in that range.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I see,

I didn't like the Precision at all, I just needed some support under my arch, not pronation control, just some kind of small hump.

I thought the Elixir had a little too much posting for me as I could feel it while running, much the same way the newer Saucony Fastwitch is now. Does the Catalyst have that much posting?

I like the Sayonara and it works well for me but I don't have a need to fill the gap between my Riders and my race shoes since I don't do Marathons and I can run a half in the Hitogami/Hyper Tri/DS Racer/Fastwitch.

Perhaps the Catalyst might be an option for me since the Rider is really too much shoe, I'm only 140 lbs and get 600+ miles out of them.

I loved the Precision, which as others have noted, doesn't exist anymore. Been hesitant to try out the Sayonara, as my local store doesn't carry it, and I'd prefer to check it out before purchasing.

Most of my training is in the Wave Rider. I race in an old pair of Wave Ronins, which are racing flats.

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Attacking this day with enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

interesting - you and jaretj seem to have the same experience.
i loved my old wave riders. i think they were the 10s? would have been 2007-8 ish. my favorite running shoes ever.
then they changed the model, and it bugged my arch. (i think that was for the 12s, but i could be wrong).
tried the precisions after that but didn't much like them. i used to try on the wave riders from time to time in later models but stopped a few years ago as none of them seemed right.

(editing to add: so Dan, leaving the poll blank, as it's been quite a while)

I was an Elixir devotee, and was disappointed when they discontinued it. I still have one pair that I use very occasionally on a treadmill and plan to race a few times this season. I switched to the Sayonnara, which has been inconsistent in terms of quality IMO, but still decent. I also get a hole above the big toe within a few weeks of running. Will probably move to Catalyst if I can find a bunch on sale.

The main reason I choose Mizuno is because I like to feel the road/surface when running, and I find Mizunos are better for this, while offering some support, than most other companies.

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The switch to the Sayonara 3 has made it much closer to the older Precisions. Check it out.

The Catalyst, far as I can tell, is a slightly more posted new Elixir.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Thanks for the information. Fortunately, I have a stockpile of six new pairs in my closest so I'm set for a couple of years. I suspect the current shoes will have all changed by the time I need to re-stock.

In a post below you made the statement: "The Catalyst, far as I can tell, is a slightly more posted new Elixir. . What does "more posted" mean?

Thanks

Medial posting is the methodology of adding additional material on the arch-side of the shoe, theoretically to combat pronation-related issues.

In the case of Mizuno, what they do is add an additional layer of Wave to the medial side of the shoe as compared to the lateral one. It's different than the typical methodology, which is to use a different durometer foam on the medial side (that is usually grayed out versus the rest of the midsole). But the basic idea is the same.

The Elixir featured very little posting, which is why there was overlap with the Precision, which is why when they figured out the Sayonara was both neutral AND more stable than the Elixir, they merged the two lines together. They've basically made the Sayonara back into the Precision, and the Catalyst is the proper "stability" version now.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I use the Inspire (currently loving and stockpiling the 12) for most of my mileage, and have been using a Sayonara 2 for workouts and longer races. I absolutely loved the Elixir, so I'm trying to replace my Sayonara's with the Catalyst, but I'm not in love with either honestly. I have a pair of Musha 5's for shorter races that are on their last leg and I'm looking for a replacement. IMO that's one of their best all time shoes. I was also a huge fan of the Inspire 10/11, felt like they were trying to combine the Elixir and Inspire into one platform. It was a great high mileage shoe, but also felt great running fast.

Anybody find a good replacement for the Musha?

I've been a Mizuno Wave Rider fan for years, but the last few generations the uppers have been made of various different light, but also flimsy, materials, so they develop holes where the fabric flexes long before the soles wear out. So I'm starting to think about whether I need to switch brands, albeit reluctantly because I'm otherwise mostly a fan.

Every running shoe I ever like gets rapidly discontinued.

At the moment I do most of my runs in the Mizuno Wave Evo Levitas (now discontinued). When they die I'm back to buying a few pairs of shoes at a time until I find something else that works.

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

I've been using the Waveriders since I hurt my achilles' running in newtons. That was about 2013, or so. They're good shoes, but I find they wear kind of fast, especially on the outside, as I pronate a little.

It was a sad day when after spending 9 years running in Mizuno Wave Alchemy to discover they were discontinued. Got fitted on the paradox but unfortunately they aren't a direct replacement and wasn't as happy with the added cushion

I ran in the Precision for years and went to the Ronin (which had 0 cusion but I love the way they felt) when they were gone. One year later the Ronin was gone.

Cool story about Mizuno, I wrote them and e-mail and they suggested the Sayonora which I did not like at all, they had no responsiveness and felt like I was running in rubber sandals so I told them that in a reply. They mailed me a pair of Hitagomi's with a return label (paid) for the Sayanora's. I am on pair 6 of the Hitagomi's. If you follow sites like Left Lane Sports or the CLYMB the will periodically have last years model on sale for under $60/. And if you are in this sport and do not follow those sites you are missing out.

I have been a dedicated Mizuno runner for the last 17 years. I was tired of drastic changes from one model to the next with Asics and Nike and suffering through numerous running related injuries. I have found that Mizuno, at least with the Creation, Precision and Enigma, for the most part just changed color schemes rather than construction. For my training runs, I moved from the Creation to the Enigma due to cushioning and use the Precision for racing.

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Dean Wilson
http://www.anaerobiczone.com
Bicycle Protection Indoors & Out

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I can't find info on what is the shoe that has replaced the Catalyst. I find it difficult to find in size 9 US... I live in Mexico and Mizunos are either twice the price in USD or very difficult to find...

There isn't one.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

:(

They basically feel that the Rider is stable enough at this point, and light enough, that it covers the market for the old Precision/Elixir customer, as well as still being their responsive neutral shoe.

Seems to work for most people, as sales seem steady enough.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I changed to Wave Riders for the same reason. I bought a pair at a race expo so long ago they were just Wave Riders, no edition number. I haven't trained in any other shoe since, but I have used the Creation and their racing flat (name escapes me) for races.

I haven't tried a pair on before purchase in 10 years. I know a size 12 is going to fit and feel just like the last pair I bought.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Oh! I see! thanks for the info!

I have ran in Riders before, I actually did my best half marathon time in that pair, so I guess they're worth to look at now.

I have a low arch, so that is why I tend to look into the support category; and the Elixir was the best shoe I owned. I never used Catalysts, and that was their replacement, so I was looking on the same line.

To pile onto this thread:

As I may have said earlier in this thread that I used to use the Precision and the Sayonara but moved on to something else.
I recently tried the Wave Shadow but was underwhelmed.

I do like their trail shoe: Wave Hayate, I'll likely be getting another pair. I used it for Xterra in 2017-18 replacing my older Asics Fuji Racers which I also liked but are not available.

Oh! cool! thanks for the info too!

I like a bit more support than what the Precision or Sayonara *appear* to offer, and by doing the test in the Mizuno site, I would be suited to the Inspire.

I actually used a pair of Inspires, but there was nothing special for me about them, so I got the Ride instead.

I ran in mizuno probably for the last 5 plus years.

Wave rider everyday shoe
Hitogami for races
Precision for anything in between

They got rid of the bottom two which I wasn’t a fan of.

The Sayonara never felt great. I tried the shadow and it was okay but not great.

Then tried the wave rider Flyknit and immediately got hot spots that I’ve never had.

I went to try the 4%, loved them so much that I ordered the Nike Turbo 2 and haven’t looked back. I’ve never been a fan of Nike until now but the Turbo 2 has been great.