Veloflex Record.

Zipp Speed SL? I run the 27 on my stinger disc and it measures a little narrow. Not sure how the 24 compares to the veloflex, but you won't give up much on CRR and probably make it back back in aero.

---

My YouTubes

I would give the Vittoria Corsa G+ speed a shot, glue the shit out of them add some sealant and burn. that is my tire of choice for the up coming season for my wheels; HED Stinger 9/ Stinger Disc or GT3/Stinger Disc.

Yes. All of the testing is on clinchers right now. But many of us have tubies and don't feel like dropping a bunch of cash on new wheels. Tom A, help us out here.

---

A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

Zipp Speed SL is the best choice IMO. Latex tube, fast compound (borrowed from... someone in the industry, I forget who), and decent flat protection (it has a breaker). I'd rock the 24mm for your HED GT3

The Schwalbe Ironman (rip) used to be the best choice. On the GT3 that would have been a screaming setup.

This ^^^^......used them this year and they are great tires. Excellent ride quality and, while I don't have data to back it up, definitely seem faster than my usual go-to tire, Vittoria CX's (no slouch itself).

As noted however, tubs rarely get tested so you gotta take a leap of faith, to some degree. The Specialized Turbo Cotton tubs are also supposed to be quite good.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I would only ever recommend that Zipp to my competition as it was almost double digits slower than a 22mm Vittoria Crono CS on my HED.

That's interesting. Are you referring to aero resistance, CRR, or a combination of the two? FWIW Tom has it ranked among some decent clinchers on his list and the 27 is right at the top of his list. Also, are you on the GT3, H3, or H3D? I was actually looking to move to the GT3 and had planned on using the 24 version of the Zipp, as the 27 seems to roll very well for me.

---

My YouTubes

I know we are talking tubs, but I was surprised to see the clincher version clock in at an unremarkable 42nd on Tom's list. Granted it is the clincher version and a 20, but I believe it is the same tire just in a clincher, correct? I have the 22 tubs on my Seven and I absolutely love them, other than how quickly the rear has worn.

---

My YouTubes

I asked on here about the conti range but was put off my the lack of latex.

I have gone with Michelin Pro 4's as (on paper) they seem to tick all the boxes.

My very (un)scientific approach of having a good mess with them suggests they feel very supple and seem to be well made.

I can only fit them on or after the 25th of December though ... lol

I would be interested in any thoughts / reviews of these tyres :-)

WD :-)

Would train but never race on them. Slow.

The clincher version is a different tire. Check out AFM rolling resistance test: http://www.biketechreview.com/...ire_testing_rev9.pdf

You can find all of Al Morrison's Crr data sets on BikeTech Review here: http://www.biketechreview.com/...ance/475-roller-data

The newest data you linked to there is 2010; not representative of the current offerings.

---

29 years and counting

I find it interesting that on Tom's list he has the Bonty R4 a bit faster than the Record Clincher and on Al's list they tied (~1.5w). Also, the reason I assumed they were the same was due to the descriptions on the site from where I sourced my tires from: http://www.veloflextires.com

FWIW, I stopped using the biketech list for a ranking as he hasn't updated it in years.

---

My YouTubes

Thank you - could I ask where you found the info ? :-)

WD :-)

Tom A's list can be found here: https://docs.google.com/.../edit#gid=1224624714

Not a whole lot of tubulars on there, though.

---

My YouTubes

My standing rule at present is I only consider testing tubulars that are supplied mounted on wheels...

edit: And that has to be a rear wheel.

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Oh wow...I just realized I've got a bunch of tires (10 or so) to add there...

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I stalk your blog looking for updates. :) I really appreciate you posting up the results of your tests. Thank you for doing so.

---

My YouTubes

Thanks. A bit of "life intervening" happened since my last update earlier this year...that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it ;-)

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I run the Vittoria Triathlon tubular. Svelte tire for smooth surfaces. On the front only. The TT tire uses a butyl tube so is more reliable I find.

Zipp's Tangente now on the rear tire/disc - very happy with that too & reliable.
Veloflex also great feel riding them.

Latex tubed Corsa's were good for one maybe two seasons only

---

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

The Vittoria Corsa G+ tubulars are probably a pretty safe bet. Probably not the fastest out there from an aero standpoint, but their CRR will be good. They still use a latex tube and the new tire formulation is supposed to be improved over the old Corsa CX.

Deductive reasoning.

My thoughts were to go with the Vittoria Corsa speed or the Veloflex record initially due to the low crr. I spoke with the HED rep when I bought the wheel and he suggested the Conti Attack. Not sure if that was for aero reasons or just durability, but I was leaning away from Conti tires due to no latex. Thoughts??

Conti tubs are crap. I'd avoid them at all costs personally. haven't ridden one in over 20 years. Always found it amazing that they could produce such great clinchers and complete POS tubs.

IMHO, of course.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Hope you are racing on smooth roads... they are paper thin and puncture prone

Would that be with Vittoria or Continental mastic?

The Conti Attack is a decent clincher but the tubular is not as good as the Continental Competition. And even with the Competition, you are giving up some watts because of the butyl tube. It is also possible your rep knows nothing about tubulars at all and thinks you are asking about a clincher tire. :-)

My understanding is that crr is far more important in the rear than the front tire where aero is more important in the front. I read somewhere that it is about 75/25% and vise versa. That having been said, I'm looking for something I can get in a 22mm-23mm tire in front on the gt3 and a 23-25mm with very low crr to put on a Zipp 900 disc for the rear. Please correct me if I'm wrong and suggestions welcome. Leaning towards either Vittoria Corsa speed or Corsa g+ in front and Corsa g+ in rear but unsure of aero for these tires.

I would go out on a limb here and say that Vittoria is the one of the few companies that make a latex tubed Tubular. Sounds like you are splitting hairs here..go with a 23mm Corsa G+ up front and a 25mm Corsa G+ in the rear. Maybe stay away from the Corsa G+ Speed due to it being a more fragile tubular. Like i said in my earlier post, I don't think you can go wrong with a pair Corsa G+ Speed wrapped on your race wheels with some orange seal in them. Or you can spoil yourself and get a pair of FMB Record Silks.

Challenge and Michelin are also on latex - not sure about others :-)

WD :-)

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to go with the Vittoria G with the 25 in the back and 23 in the front. Cheers

Has anyone tried / tested filling the gap between the tyre and rim with anything ?





Something like silicon sealer to mimic the strip that mavic offer ?

I am not going to try it - just interested ... :-)

WD :-)

Zipp's are Latex as well and lose pressure rather quickly, at least my 27 does.

---

My YouTubes

There are a few wheels out there that use the additional rim width as a trip, so I wouldn't think about it unless it was designed in that fashion.

So are Veloflex's, and mine lose pressure at an expected rate. I always pump up my tires before each race, so no biggie. The free watts from the latex are more important.

Agreed. My veloflexs loose air pretty quick too. The Zipp and Veloflex loose air faster than my clinchers setup with latex tubes (bontrager xxx) and the only other tubular with latex that I have which is a schwlabe HT; however, both feel so much better than any of my clinchers w/latex.

On pumping up tires I always do before any ride or race regardless of tube material.

---

My YouTubes

Back in the 90s there were some people running a bead of latex between the rim and tire to smooth the transition. I never heard of anyone doing any tunnel testing on it though.

rich

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...vguard-clincher-2014

I have the Schwalbe ultremo which I like a lot except it is a bit on the fragile side [2 punctures in 1st 100 km]
The newer "schwalbe one" tests quite highly

---

res, non verba

The tested versions are clinchers. We are talking about tubular tires here.

I have one Ultremo HT left that is latex, but be forewarned that Schwalbe made a move to butyl in all their tubulars. I was very dissappointed in my Ironman and my "Roubaix" Ones when I discovered they were both Butyl. The latter actually isn't a bad tire, but would rather have had a latex tube in it.

---

My YouTubes

Conti Podium TT.

The Newer Zipp Tangente SL Speed 27C Tubular will be very hard to beat, see for yourself ......

https://docs.google.com/.../edit#gid=2028370507

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/...peed-course-and.html

 
The Vittoria Crono CS is the fastest tubular I have ever tested. It is faster than any of the tires (clincher or tubular) currently on Tom's spreadsheet. Remember that gluing technique matters. If you use tape instead of a good glue like Mastik 1, you will have terrible rolling resistance regardless of the tire you use.

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Thats good to know.

Do you have test results on the Newer Zipp Tangente SL Speed 27C Tubular ?
How does it compare to the Vittoria Crono CS tubular ?
What size was the Vittoria Crono CS tubular ? Looks like they only come in 22 and 24.

My BMC TMR01 has a pretty stiff ride so I am loving how the Zipp Tangente SL Speed 27C Tubular and lower air pressure feels. What other wide tubular would you suggest that would be better then ?

Thanks for the info.

The Vittoria Crono has absolutely no puncture protection. So you better have clean roads or a bit of luck when using them. Kind of like racing on a track tire.

Mine was a 20C. I would guess the wider ones would roller faster. I haven't tested any other tubulars recently. I still have a bunch of Dugast and other tubulars in my garage that I intend to sell sometime....

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Hi jens, how are you testing these tires? On a roller drum? Can I ship you a Veloflex Record 21C tubular tire properly glued to a Zipp 404 650c rear wheel with PowerTap G3C hub to test?

I test with a bike on a roller with the front fork fixed. I typically use a power2max or Powertap on the crank and another powertap at the hub.

I've never tried a 650c wheel on a regular bike. I don't know if it will fit. Alternatively, I could try it on one of my mountain bikes -- they're all 26 in, so again, I don't know if it will work.

Let me know if you think it would fit on either type of bike. I'd be happy to try.

Another option, is you could just get a set of these for a little more than the price of sending your wheel back and forth:

http://www.nashbar.com/...2_173072_-1___204816

You would need a forkstand too, but you could probably rig up something of your own.

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

1. jens wrote:

   Another option, is you could just get a set of these for a little more than the price of sending your wheel back and forth:
   
   http://www.nashbar.com/...2_173072_-1___204816

Thanks. I actually have a set of roller already, so I suppose I could try to test on my own. Is it as simple as running the wheel at 30 or 40 km/hr and write down the wattage? Is there a proven equation I can use to get the crr based on roller diameter and tire diameter?

Tom (and probably rruff orignally) have kindly provided the calculations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J4E9Yn1vEYEnv-GW8557vzI9P_N3DL_fpLD5T14_A5M/edit?usp=sharing



Of course, you'll need to make a local copy to make changes. Getting the weight right is probably the toughest part. For sanity check I usually try a few tires where the Crr is well-known and make sure I get values that are close.

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

I raced the 22mm wide version Cronos in the NC series, the roads are far from pristine, never had a flat on them, so luck I guess. I think everyone gets paranoid about flats based on what they read about the tire not from real riding reviews. Jens is right, it's a blazing fast tubular, and all the data backs it up. And after reading that adding sealant has no ill affects on cRR, I am more than comfortable wrapping the Corsa Speeds on my Stingers.

Used them all season on crap UK roads without any problems. Just use sealant if you're worried.

General reply to this thread, i am road racing this season on the new Vittoria G+ tubulars. The quality is very nice, mounted easily as always. I am concerned with the puncture protection. At the end of a 60 minute crit today there were 7-8 rocks stuck in the tire, several fairly deep. This was on nice roads and i never had that issue with the previous generation. The tread appears to be very soft, i am thinking sealant might be in order. I will do a few more weekends of races without sealant and report back, that should yield around 200-250 racing miles on good roads.

Which size Vittoria did you roll with? The 23-28? I can only find the 25-28...
Thanks!
Juan

Those Zipps feels super smooth. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Dugast Speed Diamond or Strada in silk, Callenge Criterium ULTRA S, or FMB Competition CX or Record in silk. I wouldn't be surprised if those rolled really smooth too.

I have some FMB Comp silks on a set of Abrosio Nemesis, they do ride great. I have no idea if they've been tested. If I recall Wiggins rode FMBs.

I tried the various Dugast tires a while back. They did roll smooth, but they don't roll particularly fast. Very middle of the pack when it comes to rolling resistance. Of course there's the unbeatable bling factor of an inch-wide tire that costs more than a Michelin that you put on your SUV

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Do they use butyl tubes?

They do unless you can find the Pro version,

I use Vittoria Corsa SC due to having a large stockpile. If you can actually notice a difference between them and any other similar tubular then you're a pro and have no choice over what tyre you run. Thus, if you think they are great then it's likely you're forced to ride something else (odds on - think about it)

Tom A suggested I look at Specialized All Around MOUNTAIN tubular, for a TT tire: it’s awesome and comfy ride—about a 22 mm width, & like it better than my previous fav (Vittoiria Corsa CX / CG.). I think there is a spring Specialized tire sale going on now so need to look into new ones.