at some point i think i want to get the IMC tattoo...left ankle or shoulderblade, but im going to finish the race again before i do that.

-kevin

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

I passed some guy at the 1/2 Vineman with a big ol' M-Dot tattoo on his calf. I thought he looked like an ass with it. If it were more subtle, I probably could have cared less, but this thing was the size of a softball and just looked lame.

[reply]i don't mean to dredge up threads that've been talked about ad nauseum, but in this case, i suppose i've got to.

somebody referred to a thread where everyone talked about their tattoos, but i couldn't find it - i guess it was deleted from the forum due to how long ago it took place, because my search for it came up short.
...SNIP...
[/reply]

Since I'm the 'somebody' you speak of, I was referring to the various race forums, where people often post about their planned tattoos even before signing up or beginning to train for their IM. I just find it humorous that the tattoo sometimes seems to take priority over the race itself, that's all. The thing that struck me most about your post, though, was that you felt no real need to do a licensed 'm-dot' race, but felt it necessary that you follow up your race with an 'm-dot' tattoo, rather than the logo of whatever race you eventually choose to do. Why is the 'm-dot' tattoo so important, but you feel that doing any race of the same distanced "earns" you the tattoo? It's a corporate logo, dude. Should I go for a 500 mile drive and have the Indianapolis 500 logo tattooed on my ass to remember it. By your logic, anyone who competes in a track meet, or swim meet, or whatever, at a standard competitive distance, has "earned" the right to have the Olympic rings tattooed somewhere on their body. No one says they can't...it just doesn't make much sense. If doing the same distance is all you need to head to the ink shop, why even enter an event? Just spend a long day swimming, biking, and running, then grab your wallet and go. If the 'm-dot' tattoo means so much to you, the 'm-dot' race should be equally important. They go hand in hand. I've wasted enough bandwidth on this and don't have anything else to say.

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________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

> It's a corporate logo, dude.

Exactly!

I find it pathetic that people have their personal identity tied to corporate branding. Hats off to WTC for building such a brand that people are not willing to achieve their goals unless it has a certain branding.

So why stop with the m-dot tattoo?

I am not going to drive a car unless it is a Porsche then I'll tattoo 911 on my right hand.

A big "Orca" tattoo down the leg to tell everyone you are cool enough to swim open water in an Orca suit?

Polo rider tattoo on the left nip...

United 1K tattoo on your forehead...

why stop with the m*dot in life? Identify yourself with corporate branding!

lots of things to answer, i'll try as best i can... (by the way, i may be repeating what i've said in another thread, please forgive me for redundancy)

i realize that the m-dot is a corporate logo. however, i didn't realize that until i started immersing myself in the world of triathlon early this summer. as far as i knew, the m-dot was the logo of every race that covered what we call "iron-distance". as i said in the other thread... "i don't think anyone gives a damn whether or not it's a corporate trademark. in fact, i think that having "a stylized triathlon logo with the word "Ironman" under it" is more of a cry for attention than just an m-dot, which 95% of people wouldn't recognize. "

what i am trying to say is that completing an ironman "competitively" (i put this in quotation marks because i don't plan on contending for the podium, or a kona slot or anything like that - i just want to feel that i trained as hard and as smart as i could, and that my race was fulfilling - it's very a subjective gauge, but i'll figure it out) will be a momentous accomplishment for me. i used to run the mile - and if i was to break 4:00, i'd probably have commemorated that with a tattoo.

as far as entering an event vs spending a long day by myself... i've actually thought about this a lot. my budget is that tight. but there's a mystique to the race atmosphere. which is why i wonder, is there any reason to run a wtc-sanctioned race as my first race? for what it's worth, i plan on running an m-dot race at some point in my life, sooner rather than later. and i don't want to get the pineman logo, and the duke blue devil logo, and the imfl logo, etc, inked on my body.

to summarize, i'm getting the tattoo for myself, as sort of a permanent reminder to myself that i'm capable of incredible things (as everyone in this forum is as well).

something just occurred to me... would it be less disagreeable if i got the number 140.6 tattooed on my ankle?

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http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

Can you think of any other logo that is world known as Ironman? So what if its corporate, its not going away, and it will always mean Ironman. Your rational is ridiculous, however feel free to get an erection tatooed on your back, youve earned it!

What's the big deal? So someone wants to get a tattoo because they're proud of his/her accomplishment and he/she wants to show off to others that he is an Ironman finisher. How is it any different than wearing your finisher t-shirt around in public, or wearing any other articles of clothing that show that you're an Ironman finisher?

Sure, it's not really necessary to flaunt it with a tattoo, but I don't see it being any different than flashing it in any other way. Besides, getting a tattoo probably cheaper than having to buy a piece of m-dot branded anything. ;)

Speaking of psychology, I have always noticed that people who are quick to point out others low self esteem and need to be noticed, usually feel pretty good about themselves after doing so. Im thinking your Dr. Phil posting as Stefan?

"Can you think of any other logo that is world known as Ironman? " - broll

Well, I've got one - and a LOT of folks get tattoos of this one - Harley Davidson. There are so many variations of that logo, and those words floating around in tattoos on folks around the world - and the same discussion holds true: why flaunt a corporate logo?

I think the main reason that folks do it is because they believe in the company and the activities that company is involved with. Harley builds motorcycles, and the 'idea' that comes with those machines drives a lot of people. WTC builds Ironman-distance races, and that same 'idea' drives people as well. Both have a lot of history, and for both companies, their 'product' was not the first ever on the market - it is just the most marketed. For each I think it is not really about supporting the company, it is about supporting the idea behind the company, it is about supporting the future that the company pursues, and it is about embracing the drive that brought YOU into contact with that company.

And to answer the question - I don't have tatoos, but I've thought about it long and hard and know what I would get if or when I decide to go for it. (bass clef on my right forearm) Oh yeah, and no Harley either....yet. ;-)

Peace,

Josh

>>I think the main reason that folks do it is because they believe in the company and the activities that company is involved with.<<

Not exactly true in my case. Well, the activity for sure.

I have two tattoos.

First one, 2001: Small M-dot, black with a red dot, with NZ 01 underneath. On the outside of my lower leg, just above the left ankle. Got it in New Zealand, along with the pro triathlete we were with. We'd both just finished our first IM and had both decided to get one prior to the trip. Her first attempt, my third. Why the m-dot? It's small, it's identifiable to those who know. I was on a ride once and some roadies passed me and I heard them say, "She's done the ironman". They didn't say she's done a WTC event. I see the m-dot as generic, the same as the term ironman. Both represent to me, 140.6 miles, no matter if it's wtc, vineman, ultramax or whomever.

Second one, 2003: Again in New Zealand. Outside of right leg, above the ankle. It's one head with three bodies going off at angles--a swimmer, a biker and a runner. It's pretty cool, IMO. Probably one inch x 1/2 inch.

>>it is about embracing the drive that brought YOU into contact with that company.<<

This part, I'd agree with.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Harley tattoos, good point and good comments.

I'm too old and buttoned down for tattoos, but, with that disclaimer, I think the "140.6" idea sounds pretty cool. It's a little more subtle IMO, gets you away from the corporate juggernaut that some people get all steamed about...

Bottom line, it's your body, so do whatever the hell you want, but my $.02 is that something including the 140.6 is a good idea.

Cathy wrote:

"Second one, 2003: Again in New Zealand. Outside of right leg, above the ankle. It's one head with three bodies going off at angles--a swimmer, a biker and a runner. It's pretty cool, IMO. Probably one inch x 1/2 inch."

Sounds cool Cathy. I have been looking for a tattoo that identifies me as a triathlete - I don't want the ironman brand.

Do you have a picture if it that you can post?

I plan on doing IM CDA in 6/04. I would like something substantial, like a tattoo, to commemorate/immortalize the event and my training/sacrifice for it. I am against tatoos because I feel they desicrate the body. (After at least 6 months of dedicating my life to worshiping my body and protect it from impurities, why would I want to ruin that by injecting ink into my skin?).

I do plan on purchasing a gold pendant for my necklace of the IM logo. As someone earlier noted, the logo represents something more than the corporation. The idea is to commit to a date to complete 140.6 miles. Sure, you could pick any date on the calender and decide that you would complete the distance on your own but with an organized race you achieve a certain validation/credibility of completion. The course measured by officials. There are rules to abide by. There are fellow competitors to compare your effort to. There are spectators to cheer you on. All of these contribute to the experience of desire, commitment, training, sacrifice, and fullfilment. Since IM was the first to invent this and offers the most races at this distance, I do not think its corporate worship to look upon the logo as a personal accomplishment, regardless of who puts on the race. To me, the phrase "YOU ARE AN IRONMAN", is much more than finisher's T-shirt or logo. It can occur at GFT, Pineman, Ultramax, or at KONA. (Keep in mind, you do need another person to say these words. In other words, outside recognition of the accomplishment.)

Except for body art junkies, getting a tattoo or two of any kind is usually a marker of accomplishment or personal milestone. (can also occur after heavy drinking, but thats another story.) Can be an mdot or reid's man of power or the tazmanian devil but the decision is purely personal and if it feels right and means something to the person (which it often does after finishing an IM) then that is all that counts. Ranting about corporate branding or posing just means that that particular person sees no need for an mdot tatoo and no one should force them to get one (IMers aren't in a cult after all. Actually they kind of are, but that's another story.) As they get older and their bodies crumble both the tattooed IMer and tattoo-less IMer will share a bond of common memories and sense of personal achievement. One of them will also have a tattoo.

   

"I find it pathetic that people have their personal identity tied to corporate branding."





I have several Winnie the Pooh tatoos. Am I a slave to Disney and British publishing? Does my Piglet make me a faceless robot? My ink isn't about what you think it's about what I think. If a corporate logo says what I feel then I'll gladly ink it.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

i couldn't have put it better myself ... i know, because i've been trying. thanks for backing me.

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http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

I live in a free country because brave people died to protect it. For their benefit I will exercise every right I have been granted and I don't care what anyone says. I have an mdot sticker on my car and I put it there not to brag about the IM I have done, but to remind me to keep working out for the next IM.

"My ink isn't about what you think it's about what I think" - Amen Brother!



Three tattoos:

1. 1st Tattoo: Bulldog on right shoulder blade. Says USMC on the top and Citadel '89 on the bottom. The two institutions I love the most. Sorry, no Spec. Ops. Daddy here. Just a good ole' Artillery Officer. Arty F.O. as a 2nd Lt. in the 1st Gulf War - Bravo Co. 1/6.

2. 2nd Tattoo; Shark on left calf. Though I was an Officer I had a secondary enlisted MOS. I was a MCIWS (Marine Combat Instructor of Water Survival). We didn't have any NCOs in my unit that could pass the initial swim indoctrination. We had great NCOs, the best, but the swim indoc. was a real bear. I had 10 years competitive swimming, so I went. Best damn school I ever went to. We lost more that ½ the class by the time it was over (Mostly to sharks.... OK, just kidding... they got dropped from the course). I was the Honor Grad! Hence the tattoo.

3. Third Tattoo: My wife's initials. The location is classified. We've been together 15 years, married 9. One war, and more deployments than I wish to count. I guess it's pretty safe to get that ink. The USMC career maybe gone, but I still got the girl! (Don't start nuthin' about relationships - Tom Demerly!)

4. M-Dot tattoo pending second attempt at IMLP. Yea, I finished last year, but a 14:05:00 just didn't get it for me. No ink for that performance. Hopefully this coming summer. That was one hell of a baptism into long course racing. The weather sucked!

5. I've been meaning to get a Celtic Cross. I guess that's pending too.

Joel

  This whole tattoo thing is going to make it real interesting at the nursing home when all those old misshapen, faded tattoos are hanging around in 40 years or so. The saddest story along those lines is the guy who had to rename his dog from Nike to Reebok when his shoe sponsor changed. Aloha G .

The only reason I could imagine someone getting an mdot tattoo is to passively advertise to the world they've done an iron distance race. That means they seek some form of recognition. To each his own. However, I'd say that odds are an Mdot tattoo is going to influence someone's first impression of you, if it is something they see initially. 33% may think it's cool. 33% may be indifferent. But the other 33% may think you're an ass. A fact of life.

"The only reason I could imagine someone getting an mdot tattoo is to passively advertise to the world they've done an iron distance race."

It has nothing to do with the world, advertising, or other people. It's about the tattoo. It's for me, not you! Feel free to take yourself, and your judgements out of the equation. You, or any other person for that matter, weren't going through my brain housing group, while the needle was doing it's work.



"33% may think it's cool. 33% may be indifferent. But the other 33% may think you're an ass. A fact of life."

Let me be pointed on this one. Screw what other people think! If someone doesn't have a tattoo they probably won't get it... and that's OK too.

The best thing about the Tri-community is that the people are spectacular. I used to be a single sport guy and could never get into the 'clicks' that formed at the races. Anyone at a triathlon is approachable and could become a close friend within 3 minutes. I am always looking for new tri-friends / training partners and the best way to spot these people are the logos they wear. If I see an mdot tattoo or hat at the gym or grocery store etc, I don't think WTC, I think, cool, a triathlete.

Hey anyone have a Wildflower tattoo? That race is a badge of honor.

Again my tatoos have nothing to do with you it has to do with me. When I'm old and you are shaking your head at my ink I will love them just as much. They're not for you, they're for me.

Love ya lots.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Dude, if you let an m-dot tattoo influence your first impression of someone, grow up, or get out of middle school. Safe bet you fall into your latter 33% if this is such an issue to you. Im betting my first impression of you is wrong, I hope.

Anybody have an "SPQR" tattoo? That would be bad, as in cool BAD! If I got a tattoo, it would be "SPQR" on my left shoulder. I'd be bad if I had that.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Why so defensive? People always have a first impression when they meet someone and to a certain segment of the population a tatoo makes a poor first impression. You may not like that, but it's a fact. Also, be honest, that Mdot tatoo is there to get noticed. I'm no better. I have an mdot hat I wear everywhere.

that is absolutely true, but...

what if the tattoo is only noticed after a long time? ie, if i keep it discrete, small, and on the ankle where it generally won't get noticed right off the bat?

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http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

i guess there's a little gladiator in all of us crazy triathletes, isn't there?

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http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

>> if i keep it discrete, small, and on the ankle where it generally won't get noticed right off the bat?<<

Ha! Mine are right above my ankles and I wear skirts and dresses a lot, and almost always bare-legged. I work in an staid, white-shoe +100 year old law firm. They don't care.

Who wanted to see a picture? Quality isn't the best, as it's hard to get the lighting right.

http://www.amazon.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=avr6ezf.9i6h9oi7&x=1&y=7ftba8

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Interesting you mention SPQR. I just looked up its meaning after renting Gladiator for the umpteenth time (yes, I should buy it and add it to my very small personal collection of favorite films) and thought about modifying it somehow into something that represented me as an American in a tattoo (and not a Harley-Davidson tattoo). SPQR is short for a Latin phrase - "Senatus Populusque Romanus", meaning the "Senate and the People of Rome" and worn by at least Roman soldiers. Very similar to what American G.I.s have done for years. Tom, do you have an American military tattoo? Same thing, but I agree, SPQR is way cool.

I have no tattoos, but have thought often about what would be important to me so much so that I would be willing to have it become part of me for the rest of my days. My wife and I talked about this together and we have a great marriage, but neither one of us was fool enough to even consider each others names or likenesses. Our son was about the only thing that came to mind that was even considered. We are both marathon finishers and that wasn't good enough. There's always someone better or something longer, such as ultramarathons, Double Ironmans, Double Centuries, RAAM, etc. The Western States 100 gives belt buckles for sub-24 hour finishers. Sub 30-hour finishers get one, too (I think), but it's somehow different. Even Mt. Everest is climbed by more and more people each year.

So for me, I'll keep thinking and remain doubtful that I'll ever do anything that will compel me to get a tattoo. I've started many a conversation with my Wildflower hat, event t-shirts and other schwag, so an Ironman hat and polo t-shirt would do it for me. Even Maximus removed his SPQR tattoo.

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Sean

guess the truth hurts, shame something like a tattoo can give someone a bad first impression. And i will admit that at races I have seen many things and behaviors that make me think someone is an ass. Perhaps I will get hypocrite tattooed on my back.

People who knew me way back when I was a long-haired rocker-looking dude was surprised that I did not have my arms tatooed like Tommy Lee or Nikki Sixx. That being said, I only have one tatoo. I have a black widow in the middle of my back on my spine. I had never gotten to finish the art work (and glad I didn't, in a way) as Mrs. bunnyman does not like tatoos. I got it right before the first meeting of the woman who became mrs. bunnyman.

I dunno. I have a few guidelines about tatoos. First, it better mean something, as it's there for the rest of your life, even when attempting to get them removed. You better be at the age where "you know better", as you're less likely to regret it. It better be in a place where you can hide it, as tatoos will be a rebelious thing once again. If you're Jewish, you had better make sure that you're okay with not being buried in a Jewish cemetary, because it won't happen after a tatoo.

Does mine meet within the guidelines? Mine means a lot. Anyone who has read any of my posts dealing with the opposite gender and relationships will know exactly why I have it. I was well over 25, arguably an age where I should have known better, but now I seriously doubt I knew much of anything at that point, let alone now. I told everyone the placement in the first paragraph. I am okay with not being buried in a Jewish cemetary.

I am not one who personally thinks we need to brand ourselves with tatoos to show that we're athletes. I would only brand myself with something that is a milestone or something. Mine did celebrate a milestone. M-dot is okay if you've done one, but I would have dates and my time, as well. I kinda like to see people be surprised that the guy on the bike poster hanging in my station is me, as I am kind of looking a bit like the long-haired rocker-looking guy I was a few years back, albeit with quite a bit of grey hairs these days.

A little on the defensive, are we? I was making no judgements on you. Neither did I make a positive or negative judgement on anybody with a tattoo whether it be an Mdot or anchor or heart or whatever. Maybe you should ask yourself why you inferred and reacted the way you did. I simply stated that having one will affect first impressions. Prove me wrong.

To the fellow who states it's nothing more than a tattoo and it's for him only. Bulls**t. It's an advertisement to the world. If it is truly for him alone, then why not locate the tattoo in the ass-crack or armpit - where only a very select few see it?

Again, I'm not judging the purpose or merits of having the damn tattoo itself, I was simply stating that it will have an affect on impressions. And, if you say those don't matter to you at all, that is bulls**t too. (Would you show up on a first date with egg on your face?)

"You, or any other person for that matter, weren't going through my brain housing group, while the needle was doing it's work. "

Huh?

I've got one tattoo, a small one (silver dollar sized) on my left shoulder. I got it in college, completely sober in fact (very odd for that period of my life, I might add). Funny thing -- I had wanted one for many years. My then-girlfriend's brother and one of his friends decided to get one. After they got one, I did the same. My then-girlfriend went with me, and started crying when I got the art. I asked her why she didn't tell me she didn't want me to get one before I had it done. Her reply: "Because you would have said it was your body and you would do what you wanted to to it." She was right. Guess what -- that girl's gone, tattoo is still there. (And it's not her initials!)

I'd like to get another one, but I doubt I will. I keep thinking about it, though. If you want to get an M-dot tattoo, go for it. Lots do, many more don't. It doesn't mean anything except you accomplished something that you want to commemorate.

RP

Tatoos, hmm. This one runs deep with me. I grew up in a place and culture (indian res) were tatoos were the norm, albeit they were mostly of the homemade variety. I succumbed, and by the time I was 11 years old I had four of them...India ink, sewing maching needle and some cotton thread. They're small, but permanent. Fact is, now 40+ years later, I regret them (didn't take me 4o years to feel that way, however). I've had one removed with a laser...hurt like hell!

In 1970, while in the Marines, and about to ship out to an uncertain future overseas, a bunch of us went into Oceanside, got plastered, and ended up in a tatoo parlor. We each picked out something and waited our turn. I was at the end of the line, and frankly, sobered up enough by my turn that I decided to wait. Some of those men (boys) were buried with their tatoos (though I guess not any in Jewish cemetaries). One who made it home (albeit with scars) remains a friend, and still has the large skull, scroll, dagger "USMC", and 'Death before Dishonor" on his right forearm. One evening a couple of years ago, we went together to watch an NBA game. He was driving, and without warning, whacked me a good one across the chest. When I asked why, he said that he's still mad that he got the tatoo and I didn't.

Now I have four sons, two of whom have extensive tattooing. The oldest regrets it, the second one will one day.

When I did my first IM a few years back, I though at first that I'd get a small M-dot, but decided to wait a year to see how I felt. I've done several more IM's, and am still with out the tatoo. I did buy a pendant with the outline of the Big Island in the middle of the M-dot, and wear it everyday, under my shirt...close to my heart. I think that's enough for me. Others have chosen the ink, more power to them.

33% may think it's cool. 33% may be indifferent. But the other 33% may think you're an ass. A fact of life.

Very true, but about the same for anyone who meets me, whether I have tatoos or not.

Nope, no military (or any) tattoos. If they ever found my body in a place I wasn't supposed to be there would be no tags in my clothes, no marks on my body. I'd be a ghost. I am partial to girls with little tattos over their butt that you see when they bend over. Big fun.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

7 Ironman distance finishes

4 Ironman North America Finishes.

1 Kona Finish ('97 at the age of 25) which is the only race which motivated my M-dot tatoo.

After finishing Kona after asking my new girlfiend at the time (Who is now my wife) if I should go get an M-dot tatoo, she replied "lets go tomorow you p...y".

My M-dot Tatoo can only be viewed when I am in a speedo or running shorts. So most of the people who see it understand my logic.

BTW both of my parents were totally shocked that I got a tatoo after my ultra conserative childhood. Within the last year each of them have added tattos themselves (and they are both in their 60's). I guess I showed them that it was no big deal.

I plan to get an M-dot for each time I do Kona. Hopefully I can qualify on my own merit. If not maybe I can win the lottery again. I would not get a tatoo for any race outside of Kona. Hopefully one day they will cover my leg!

Ah yes , where would you like me to start ?



Coke , Nike , Harley as someone mentioned , Pepsi ,McDonalds etc etc etc

I would say Ironman logo is only known amongst the triathlon community

yup, those timex ironman watches with an m-dot and ironman on them, only a few thousand of them have been sold worldwide to triathletes as you have to finish an ironman to wear one. You would think k-mart and walmart would carry other finishers merchandise as well.

I recommend "road rash" from various bike crashes.

Highly individuallistic, event-specific, fades nicely over time, and brings back memories.

Some of mine are really quite artistic...

I might get a tattoo after my next IM but it probably won't be an M-dot...nothing against WTC and the whole corporate logo thing etc...the design is fine but I like tattoos that are a bit more detailed and particular tattoo styles...although I might actually add a small M-dot within the larger tattoo as part of negative space design and that is not very obvious.

I like the comment that someone said to the effect: I get the tattoo for me and not you. Ink isn't for everyone, some people who see mine are really impressed with the work and designs and others think they are totally stupid...I couldn't care less. I do it because I like them...I get them in easily covered up areas and the person who sees them the most are myself. A lot of people seem to have issues about why people get a tattoo after an IM but my feeling is that you don't even have to have an event to commemorate to get some tats. Some of my tattoos have meaning some don't..in the end either you like tattoos or you don't. My only advice is be really really sure you want a tattoo and don't bargain shop for a tattoo artist...you have to live with it forever.

Here are two sites to check out for some great tattoo work:

www.tomrenshaw.com

www.psychotats.com - look under deano cook