I've had two rapid punctures during competition, using latex tubes..
Two resulted in a very dangerous situation, and one directly caused a crash, as the puncture was VERY sudden during a 45km/h right hand turn.

The first time, it luckily happen on a straight downhill section, and I was able to do a controlled breakdown from 55km/h, before a 45degree turn

I have taken the decision NOT to use latex tubes anymore, as I have only experienced sudden punctures and blowouts, which just do not happend with normal butyl tubes.

After completing my first full last year, this spring/summer I dedicated myself to getting faster, hired a coach, got a power meter/wheel set, and used latex tubes. I had 2 races schedule one this past weekend as a tune up, and IM Austin 70.3 next month.

I was 2nd out of the water, fastest t1.... flatted 3 miles from transition and my cO2 (was only carrying one like a dumbass) was a dud, probably because it was old. I had to wait for someone to pass me a cartridge and after changing this cost me about 10/15 mins. I lost the podium by 10 mins, and actually would probably have won my AG without the flat.

This is the 2nd time I have flatted on latex tubes, once on a training ride and now in a race. I'm done with them forever.

To counter other experiences above. I've flatted about 10 times in the last 3 years - never on latex, only on regular tubes. My rear training tire currently has a latex tube in it (because I'm lazy) and has been there all summer. Front is a regular tube and I've had a flat there. I have no concerns with latex tubes.

I have flatted a latex tube once: I ran over a 3inch shard of metal. I don't think a standard butyl tube would have survived.

I have installed latex tubes onto rims with Veloplugs, electrical tape, Stan's tape, standard plastic rim tape.... All were successful. I do not see the huge fear people have with latex tubes.

Make sure rim is clean all the way around.
Make sure tire is clean all the way around.
Throw latex tube in ziplock bag with some baby powder to give it a good coating.
Add baby powder to the inside of the tire when it is half installed, if you want to get super OCD with the install.
Insert coated tube, close off tire, inflate to 30ish psi and check that the tire is seated correctly and no tube peaks out.
Pump up to desired psi and enjoy!

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Alex Arman

Strava

I ride tubulars (race wheels), so it's a slightly different experience, but between two sets of race wheels, have never had a blow out.

My wife's clincher training wheels have latex tubes, and she's never had a blow out, only a pinch flat when I first installed them.

My training wheels have butyl tubes, and I've never had a blow out.

In fact since I started seriously in the sport in 2004, I have never experienced a blowout that wasn't caused by user error, or encountering a very large pothole or rock.


I suspect user error on installation.

They are very sensitive to installation error. How carefully do you check that you have not pinched any tube between the tire bead and rim before inflating fully?

You really have to go around the whole perimeter inch by inch, add a little air, do it again.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

+1

User error here, I've been using them for years now only had one issue when I let a tyre go flat and then when I pumped it up again some of the tube was trapped between the tyre and rim. went bang after about 2min on the road.

The fact that they're failing on the side means some of the tube was trapped.

I'll second the above. Actually, with any tube. I'll inspect for seeing the tube below the bead before inflation. Then, I inflate to 20, let the air out, inflate to 40-60 let the air out, inflate to desired pressure, let the air out, then inflate again to desired pressure - ride.

this process lets the tube wiggle around away from the bead. YOU WON'T PINCH with that process.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

It is such a common error I don't even recommend them to people unless I know them really well and trust them to be meticulous.

I've had domestic pro mechanics make this mistake. Pretty much you have to blow up a couple tubes before you realize OK yes I have to check the whole perimeter really carefully. Once you learn it, no problems.

That and exposed spoke holes are the culprit 99% of the time. Sounds like you have the spoke hole situation well covered though.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The second tube, spontaneously exploded about ten minutes after I installed it. The third tube lasted about a month and spontaneously exploded about two minutes after topping it off. Both tubes where completely shredded on the rim side for most of the way around. A careful inspection of the rim and tire and I can find absolutely nothing that could possible cause a tube failure.

Poor installation.

I've got ~40k miles riding nothing but latex tubes (Challenge, Michelin, Vredestein, Vittoria), and I've never experienced this.

A tube has very little stress on it when properly installed. It will not explode unless the *container* (tire bead or rim strip) gives way.

Yes, you can get away with poor technique when installing butyl tubes... not so with latex.

I agree with this completely. It takes me an hour to do one set of wheels. However, I can go entire years without a flat. If you're not a detail guy/girl, and you're not patient, forget it.

I went through around 4 tubes before I got the process down (5 years ago there wasn't as much advice on this topic yet on the interwebs). If you're concerned about the expense, you can patch latex just like butyl. I'm running patched latex on my training wheels. Have a few thousand k at least. Ride great.

Pretty much you have to blow up a couple tubes before you realize OK yes I have to check the whole perimeter really carefully.

Even better is to install them so the tube never gets under the bead. With powder on the tire and tube both, enough air to hold shape, and making sure the tube is happily situated before putting that last bead on, I never have that issue.

It's also worth mentioning that once a tire has blown off, the kevlar bead will often be torn, making more likely to happen again with that tire.

While I have had a variety of alarming blowouts with latex tubes over the past 3-years, in almost all cases prior to switching to Zipp Firecrest wheels, the cause of such blowouts was a result of improper installation and/or lack of diligence in checking for pinched tubes after the wheels had sat idle for a few days and lost pressure. It has been my experience that when rims with narrower internal width (Reynolds DV-46 and SDV-66 in my case), coupled with high performance clinchers/tires with supple casings/high TPI, then such checks should become a normal ritual prior to re-inflating after a period of non-use. The reason I think is that as such tires age, the casing at the bead gets looser on the rim and as the tube leaches air and gets closer to ambient pressure, the tire bead has a tendency to pull back from the rim leaving a gap which allows the latex tube to migrate into void which in turn gets pinched the next time it is inflated.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

the only spontaneous blowout I've ever had was on butyl.. been racing on latex for five years, no problems yet..
(that blowout was a pump problem, turns out the gauge on the pump was under-reading by about 30psi, so had 130psi in an old tire rated for 120 max, on a hot day. near the end of the ride heard the tube come out and start rubbing on something, next was the 'spontaneous' blowout. but it was my fault in fact.)

This and use baby powder.

When you say "sudden puncture", are you saying that there was a loud "bang"? If so, then those were actually installation error as described above. The tube won't make a loud sound like that unless it is already outside the tire.

IME, a puncture with a latex tube actually results in a slower deflation of the tire (with nearly no sound) as compared to with a butyl tube...and in some cases, if the hole is small, once the pressure gets low enough the tube tends to "self seal" and hold a bit of air for quite a long time.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Only took me once, 5 bucks is a lot of money when you are 10 and have no job. Screwed up installing a tube dad said tough crap you screwed up walk until you can buy another one.. My dad wasn't even one of those mean ones it was just a common sense check your work kind of thing, that and at the time 5 bucks was probably a lot even to them.

Never had an issue with latex on the bike, whether it was when I used them on my mountain bike in the mid 90s or now on my road bikes. Latex in the bedroom though seem to have issues with blow outs..

Been racing on the same latex tubes all year (3 half, 3 Olympics) and no flats. I've had 2 butyl flats in the last year while training.

I'd agree with above, careful installation is the key. Mount 1 bead of tire, mount tube, inflate to 5psi, finish mounting tire, check to make sure tube isn't pinched under the bead along the entire circumference for both sides, inflate to 20-30psi, check again, finish inflating. May seem onerous, but that process does the trick for me, and sure beats dealing with a blowout.

I always check the bead carefully and inflate once, release all the air and inflate again. I can easily see I possibly made an error on the one that blew out after ten minutes but the one that I rode around on for a month before it spontaneously blew doesn't seem like it could be installation error. I should add that the sealant also makes a huge mess with a blowout, I am still undecided if I want to try latex again next season.

If a minor installation error means I am riding on a time bomb then this seems like a very high price to save a few watts.

I have the exact same latex tubes this season as last season. I leave my race wheels on all summer long for training and racing. I do not use any kind of sealant. I have not flattened at any time during the past 2 years. The problem isn't the latex.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

A shredded hole is formed when the tube expands without limit: it escaped from inside the tube and blew. No spontaneity involved. Sounds like the tube was pinched under the bead when installed.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

It's not that bad. Just be sure it's nice & smooth, and don't stick it in dry. It might fit, but could cause some bruising later on.

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I'll take 'Cycling Superstitions and Myths' for $2,000, Alex.

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float , hammer , and jog

Crap, I thought you were going to point us to a really good sale on latex tubes. A real "blowout".

Again - Pinched under the bead for a month with no issue then explodes without warning?

Again: a shredded hole indicates that the tube exited the tire/rim "container" and expanded until it blew. It's pretty clear from your description that is what occurred, and not due to a puncture. Why that exit occurred is not known, but the choices are pretty narrow: the tube slipped under the bead or the tube slipped through a hole in the tire. When you said "most of the way around," did you really mean that (like more than half of the circumference of the wheel)?

It seems reasonable that "topping it off" after it had been on a while was sufficient to cause a pinched tube to finally escape: the tire bead may have become a bit looser, and you finally got enough pressure in the tube to get it to expand and blow.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Yes, more than half the circumference of the wheel. It sounds like what you are saying is a minor installation error can result in a tube blowing out catastrophically any time even after 100's of miles. If that's the case then I'm going back to butyl.

I just realized I rode IM Lake placid on that tube including the 50 mph+ descent into keene :o




What is the myth here?

In this case I don't buy the pinched tube argument either -- if the tube was pinched I would expect it to blow pretty early on.

Still, the fact is that latex stretches much more than butyl, making it less likely to pinch flat or puncture and offering lower rolling resistance to boot. Of course, latex stretching more also means it'll blow through a much smaller hole than butyl...

I had one fail this summer. It failed between rides at the seam of the valve stem to tube junction or whatever you'd call that. It was nice I wasn't riding when it failed.

I've probably got 10K miles on latex tubes in the last couple years. I've pinch flatted 3 times. Once it destroyed a rim so none of those were the fault of the tube. I also flatted on chipseal when a tiny rock worked it's way through the tire. In all those miles never a spontaneous blow out. I always check for tube under the bead when installing.

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

A few thoughts:

- I have seen quite a few post's on here (and some local accounts) concerning Flo's and blowouts/flats and i suspect there might be some rough surfaces or finishing issues that cause this. I am sure the Flo mafia will try and shut this down but i have noticed around 10-12 separate accounts of this exact issue.

- My theory is that if it does not blow right away or within 10-20 minutes it is not the tube at fault but the wheel or something that cause a pinch flat.

- GP 4000's are the only tires i have gotten flats on while racing. I have always ridden Vittoria for road racing but decided to try the 4000's this spring and got three flats, i will never ride them again. One was a puncture, one a pinch flat from some really rough road, the last was a mystery.

- I have seen a few accounts of issues with the Vittoria tubes and they were all around a similar time, i wounder if there was a bad batch? I rode them all year and never had an issue at all, but i also run lower pressure (90-95).

- Ride tubulars, after blowing a clincher during a road race this year i am 100% sold on the benefit of tubulars for safety. My tire blew during a corner of a decent when i hit a slight pot hole and its a miracle that i stayed upright and others around me were attentive.

Yes. At 98-100 psi, it might not be enough to lift the bead. But then I pumped it up to 115 psi to see how much pressure it would hold overnight and middle of the night my wife and I hear a weird noise from the basement. The next morning I find out what the noise was.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I used to think the same thing but we would both be mistaken. Seriously, it can and does happen. I found out the hard way when I ate pavement the day before a race..

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1914519#1914519


Verdict was: I installed the tube badly. But along with that was the lesson learnd It is much easier to install a latex tube badly than it is a butyl tube... for the same reasons that makes latex faster. You cannot be as cavalier as you would be with butyl. But it can and happen to Butyl tubes too, even after 100s of miles. Check out this post from the same thread

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1915351#1915351

Again - Pinched under the bead for a month with no issue then explodes without warning?

Unfortunately that is quite possible. I've heard of people discovering that their latex tube was pinched and they'd been riding on it for hundreds of miles.

I hope I'm not jinxing myself, but I don't feel like I do anything that special. > 40k miles using latex tubes with many gratuitous tire swaps. Many different rims and tires.

Powder the tire and tube.
Put a little air in the tube.
Install the first tire bead.
Stick the valve in, then the spot opposite the valve, making sure to split the difference of any excess. Even if the tube seems a little long, I never have any distortions when it's installed like this.
Push the tube/tire up so the tube is on the rim. This is important.
Make sure it is not twisted or doing anything else weird.
Push the valve away from the rim slightly, and start the second bead in that spot.
Work the bead around both sides with your hands, making sure it is in the center of the rim, and pulling it down, ie stretching it.
If you need to use a lever for the last bit, go ahead. I use Pedros Milk levers. Make sure the lever is tight against the rim when you work it in. I manage to never damage a tube.
I'm lazy so the only place I check for a pinched tube is the last place I installed the bead. It's never been pinched... ever.
Push or pull the valve down tight against the rim as you inflate.
Done.

Slightly off topic....., I realize you like heavy wheels ;) but why have both velo plugs and tape? Pick one or other me thinks.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

My time theory is pretty much useless but after airing up thousands of tires on year while working at a shop if its an install error it tends to happen pretty fast. Also if there is an abrasion or finishing issue it might take extended time for that to puncture/wear through the tube. We had this issue with some Zipps that needed to be sanded down after puncturing several tubes. Also had the same issue on a pair of reynolds before at our shop.

I can say with 100% confidence that on my road racing team two guys purchased Flo's recently who know what the heck they are doing and both had several instances of flats on their first few weeks (one using latex) despite very careful attention. In fact one guy got three flats in a row on the same ride and there was nothing in his tire at all, trust me we all were working on this problem on the side of the road. In the end he suspected that there was a slight rough edge or two and he used some velox+electrical tape and everything is great now. The other rider ended up doing the same thing and he has been fine since as well.

I've had this with latex tubes, butyl tubes, and bad rims. The tubes were user error. The bad rims had a piece of the hook missing(!) I didn't find that problem immediately.


Sounds like the tube got pinched.


Conti tires are "soft". That makes them easier to blow off. They're not the only tires that are "soft".


I've had a (butyl tube) tire blow of the front wheel at 70 km/h. Yes, it's dangerous and slippery to ride downhill on a rim with no tire.

Heavyweight tubes and tires are safer. Lightweight butyl tubes rupture like crazy. Latex tubes are prone to user error.

Tubeless-ready rims tend to have a very tight tire bead <-> rim hook interface, making them a lot safer for blowouts. There's different rim hook designs.

I'll also add that I think the rim hook on wider carbon rims does not grab the bead as well as aluminum narrow rims. Add to that getting some baby powder between the rim and bead...and you make a blow off easier I think. Worse is some chain grease gets in there. I almost wonder if it's worth wiping the rim with alcohol before installation of a new tire and tube.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

This is still where I'm at. So tempted to try clinchers, less expensive tires, easier to swap for new tires on race day, lower rolling resistance, etc.
But I just can't get past the higher risk of flats (and possible crashes due to flats) with clinchers. :(
No flat tires on my tubulars in training or racing in 3+ years...

Were any of these flats of the "tube was shredded" variety as described by the OP?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Tubulars also have potential install errors. If it hasn't been glued right you can roll the tire on a corner.

Very very uncommon these days. An unglued tubular, pumped up to pressure, is pretty hard to roll off the rim.

The only time I've had a tire/tube cause an accident in a ride or race (nearing 200k miles now) was when I rolled a tubular in a corner. No problem ever with clinchers.

Don't forget that the heat generated from braking can cause significant pressure changes in the tube. It can also change the flexibility of the tire so it absolutely makes sense that you could have a blow out after hundreds of miles if you reach the right combination of heat and pressure changes that allows the blowout to happen. The key is to be extra vigilant on the tire install and pump/deflate the tire multiple times during the install to ensure the tube is correctly positioned inside the tire.

I was trying to take every precaution I could to be sure I didn't have any issues (we see how well that worked). I was careful installing the tube and also carefully inspected the bead after inflating and saw no signs of a pinched tube. Other than the inflating/deflating several times what do you do to determine if you have the tube trapped under the bead.

I may give latex one more try in the spring and be extra, extra careful installing it and see what happens.

I should add the front has had a latex tube in it all season (I mistakenly said butyl) with no issues and the Flo wheels have an aluminum rim (for the poster who said carbon rims don't hold the bead as well)

What about this from the michelin website:
Do you guys not use latex on carbon wheels?

Recommendations of use of LATEX Inner Tubes:
"Recommendations for use enabling you to take full advantage of the characteristics and high performance of MICHELIN latex inner tubes"
- Every time a tyre is changed or fitted, we recommend fitting a new latex inner tube.
- Each time a tyre is changed or fitted with a MICHELIN Latex inner tube, we recommend the use of a new MICHELIN rim tape.
- Do not use MICHELIN latex inner tubes with carbon fibre rims
- As the Latex inner tube is a very technical product, MICHELIN advise against repairing it.

They left out
-Every MICHELIN time a MICHELIN tyre is changed, please send MICHELIN money.

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float , hammer , and jog

Since the other 3 "recommendations" are laughable, I'm go to guess that the carbon prohibition makes no sense either. Zipp did some testing and verified that heat wasn't a specific issue with latex, since the rim tape would melt first.

Lightweight writes in their manual not to use Latex tubes for their carbon clincher.

Seems like a good idea to follow the instructions of the manufacturer.

I thought Michelin stopped producing latex tubes anyway?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Have been using latex on some wheels with veloplugs, but no tape. No problems so far, so I am kind of curious, how important is the tape? How likely do you think the latex can be punctured by a veloplug? Or, is the tape to add insurance that the veloplugs don't fall out?

thanks,
Greg @ dsw

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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One of my theories with latex tubes is that issues may arise when the tube is allowed to go completely flat, as might be the case with race only wheels. No air in the tube allows the bead to separate, giving the latex tube an opportunity to work it's way through upon reinflation.

Whenever one of my wheels sits long enough to lose all or most of its air, I like to I put a few lbs in first and then pinch all the way around to be sure the tube is not peeking out under the bead.

I've only used michelin latex so far. Any comments/comparisons on the durability or ease of use or anything else on the other brands?

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Never had a bike in our day ... or a road. When I was a lad we 'ad to drag ourselves t' the mine with our tongues. --> Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Oh... I forgot Bontrager, too. Been buying Vittorias from Ribble for <$9ea and I'm very happy with them. Bontragers and Michelin are good. I haven't used Challenge in awhile. Didn't like them much. They came with some slimy stuff on them and the QC seemed poor. I have some 7 year old thick Vredestein tubes that are awesome for durability... but of course they are heavy...110g. They lose some pinch flat and puncture resistance I think, but you don't need to be as careful with installation and such. They also don't leak as fast, and the Crr is just as good. I wish they still made them because that's what I'd recommend "beginners" get. The thin superlite Vred tubes are fragile as you'd expect.

Whenever one of my wheels sits long enough to lose all or most of its air, I like to I put a few lbs in first and then pinch all the way around to be sure the tube is not peeking out under the bead.

That sounds like a good practice.

I've tried Vittoria, Bontrager and Michelin. Out of those three if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Bontrager.