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Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run
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That's a ridiculously fast time on any course but that's just flat out insane on the Syracuse 70.3 course which is a really tough run course. Basically 5 minutes faster than the next fastest run and 9 minutes faster than the third fastest run.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I think he had the same uber fast run split in Raleigh 70.3 as well.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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ho. ly. fuck.

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@adamwfurlong
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
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heck, yeah, that's very fast.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
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afurlong wrote:
ho. ly. fuck.

Isn't that the Asiana Flight Pilot?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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He ran 10 minutes faster than Yoder, who won!

Internet User
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Unbelievable, he took 10 minutes out of yoder's lead over 13 miles, too bad he came off the bike almost 12 minutes down! Looking forward to seeing how he does in Tremblant - I assume he'll have the points after this one.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Impressive

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [bballplayer] [ In reply to ]
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bballplayer wrote:
afurlong wrote:
ho. ly. fuck.


Isn't that the Asiana Flight Pilot?

Nice call! Frank Lapidus. "Chesty"

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty crazy since it is such a major outlier. Hopefully he can speed up a bit in the swim and/or bike.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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He actually rode quite well at Raleigh...... He shot by me like a bullet about 5mi into the ride, with a speed that left me just thinking "who the F is that?" Swim could use some work but not terrible at all
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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On THAT course? Wow...

Or he went left after T2 and cut through straight to the first hill trough the meadows.

Impressive bike and run legs mister!
Canadian strong!



Only fools never change their minds and I'll never change my mind about that.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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After having looked at the splits I see he was about 3 minutes off FOP on the swim. Bike was quite good. Didn't realize he came in 2nd at first, don't think it was posted by the OP.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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ohhyeah baby
i cant wait to see what he puts down over the next few years. 
remember...he's still relatively new to the sport

either way....fastest runner in the game today. Bar none!!



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Last edited by: shady: Jun 22, 14 14:28
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [shady] [ In reply to ]
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oh yeah and Beals!!...he rocked it today!
He's another up and coming Canadian Pro who is going to be fun to watch. And from his posts on the 'twitch he seems like an awesome guy too!!





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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [shady] [ In reply to ]
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shady wrote:
oh yeah and Beals!!...he rocked it today!
He's another up and coming Canadian Pro who is going to be fun to watch. And from his posts on the 'twitch he seems like an awesome guy too!!





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Beals did rock it and truly an awesome down to earth guy :)
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Bancarel] [ In reply to ]
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Bancarel wrote:
On THAT course? Wow...

Or he went left after T2 and cut through straight to the first hill trough the meadows.

Impressive bike and run legs mister!
Canadian strong!



Yeah that must be it...he cut the course ::))
Actually, in Looking at the splits of the top 12 or so men...He would have come into T2 in about 10th spot and then went and reeled in all but one. And some of these guys were running a 1:17...1:18  so NOT walking - given the course- so these guys all got a front row perspective of what a 1:09 looks like when it goes by you ! 



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Last edited by: shady: Jun 22, 14 14:38
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Flying!!!! but this is what the top guys do now. If you want to be a big player at 70.3 worlds (or Bahrain...will be interesting to see which has the better field) you need to be 1.12 or below (unless your a monster biker).

I think it would be fair to say that a sub 1.10 is the equivalent to a sub 30 in ITU??

__________________________________________________
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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he made Andreas Raelert look pretty sluggish at Muskoka 70.3 last year running 1:10 after out-biking the rest of the field

Coaching - Future Endurance
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [cannastar] [ In reply to ]
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I was wondering the same thing when Frodeno went sub 1:10. Probably more rare than sub 30's though.

Edit: I realize that both are quite rare but to an extent sub 30's have become quite common among the top 3 in WTS races.
Last edited by: Staz: Jun 22, 14 17:04
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Re your edit: they are 'quite' common now, although WTS courses tend to still be short. I.e. Yokohama was 75m short (this was first-hand from a coach who measured the course with one of the wheel things).

In the last few years I've definitely noticed that the run times are coming down in 70.3. 1.15s don't seem to cut it anymore

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely incredible - not an easy course, and it was in full sunshine today.

Remember that name!!


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"No more hurting people - Peace"
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a front row seat to the Lionel Run Show on many occasions. That wasn't the first time he's blown past me late in a race. Check out his 70.3 run record:

Muskoka 70.3 - 1:10:58 (not a fast course)
Texas 70.3 - 1:12:09 (after flat tires took him out of contention)
St. George 70.3 - 1:12:18
Raleigh 70.3 - 1:09:56
Syracuse 70.3 - 1:09:54
+ countless local short course results

Even so, his run at Syracuse 70.3 was unreal. Two huge climbs, grass, gravel, 3 turnarounds... all the makings of a very slow course. Scary to think what that translates to on a flat course... He has got to be the most consistent, if not the most dominant, runner in 70.3 right now.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Another awesome one for you too yesterday Cody!

Lionel was around last weekend and did a short course brick after a huge swim workout.
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:45
8 minutes rest
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:32.

Lionel is lacking nothing in terms of dedication and motivation to get better, faster, stronger. Monster athlete and still very early in his career.

__________________________
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Cody,
Congratulations on your race.

If you had to rate your 5 hardest 70.3 runs, what would they be and where does Syracuse fit in there ?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Cody,
Congratulations on your race.

If you had to rate your 5 hardest 70.3 runs, what would they be and where does Syracuse fit in there ?

Thanks. Syracuse was only my third 70.3 (fourth HIM), but it was without a doubt the hardest triathlon run course I've ever raced. I was almost reduced to walking up the big climb both laps, and I had the 3rd fastest run split! Coming back down, the grade is too steep to efficiently make up time and it just further trashes your legs. Besides hills, the course also has many other slow features: off-camber sections, some grass and loose gravel, 3 u-turns, <50% shade...

By "hardest", what I really mean is slowest. A given level of suffering can be achieved on any course, it's just the pace that varies.

Another factor that contributes to the difficulty of a run course is the bike course. Even with optimal pacing, a hilly bike course like Syracuse will produce a higher VI, which all else equal tends to hurt the run.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I had the opportunity to hear Lionel speak at the Triathlon Ontario AGM last year. You should check out a little about his background as well. Makes his story even more intriguing.

Dude has been through a lot and has come out the other side stronger! Mentally he is very tough, and obviously physically gifted.

He will be a force to be watched in the coming years for sure.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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amazing to say the least.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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In the words of the late-great Col. Sanders: "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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He runs like someone stole his wallet and he's going to chase them down...
A seriously nice guy from a small town. Humble, works hard and once he learns to swim will be doing even more sh*t kicking. As someone else mentioned, his is an interesting story.
Makes a point of coming back to his home race (the ironhawk duathlon) every year. Never holds back
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Gervs] [ In reply to ]
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Gervs wrote:
Another awesome one for you too yesterday Cody!

Lionel was around last weekend and did a short course brick after a huge swim workout.
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:45
8 minutes rest
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:32.

Lionel is lacking nothing in terms of dedication and motivation to get better, faster, stronger. Monster athlete and still very early in his career.


Thanks for sharing
And shite!!!...those are some serious ITU-(pointyEnd) run numbers !!! I (Love that negative split too:)


.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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HUGE talent coupled with years and years of hard work, with still some improvements to come( swim) means, watch out!

It's been a pleasure to watch the growth and improvements from my front row seat as a race announcer at many triathlons in Ontario.

He is a great runner naturally, but his fitness on the run has been honed even more by running on the MacMaster University (Hamilton, ON) cross-country running team for the past few years. It's a great program they have there - higher level NCAA Div 1 equivalent.

It will be exciting to see where Lionel goes this year. He's and a bit of a slow start with some mechanical and other issues, taking him out of races, but still running back strong at the end.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Its nice to see Lionel getting the start of the recognition he deserves. Lionel was with me all winter in my Tucson Arizona base and I saw some of the most incredible daily workouts I have ever witnessed in 30+ years of triathlon. My days around Simon Whitfield showed me what FAST looked like. Fast for the 2 hr Olympic Distance race distance. Simon was nothing short of remarkable for nearly 20 years at going fast for sub-two hour racing. Lionel on the other hand was made to ultimately win Ironman races. He has been a full-time student (last summer he was taking full summer courses as well as trying to train and race). This past Feb was the first time he was ever away for a proper winter's base. His new relationship with Miguel Vadillo (a famous open water swim racer & coach) is going to make a big difference in his swimming in the next 12-18 months. While Lionel and I don't anticipate he will be beating Andy Potts or Jan Frodeno out of the water, he will get much closer out of the water in the next year and a half. His biking still has a lot of room for improvement (even though he has done a number of sub 2hr 10 min rides for 90km over the winter). Finally, the running he has shown the world in the last 12 months is a god-given talent. Last year, he did his first hard longer running race (the famous 30km AROUND THE BAY RUNNING RACE) where Kenyans have dominated for a decade. Lionel ran a 1hr 36min finish (3rd place overall to Kenyans beating a few) in his first 30km race. Thats 32min/ 10km avg pace for 30km on a hilly tough run course (and the first time he ran that distance). I first met Lionel when he was in grade 11 and told him at the provincial running championships that his real talent would one day be in Triathlon. All though it took him seven or eight years and a few years of setbacks, he now knows that he can be one of the best in the world at 70.3 and particularly Ironman. We all know that every year a new GUY TO LOOKOUT FOR comes along. Rarely do those new stars stay in the sport long enough to reach their true potential and one day become a champion. I am personally committed to helping this unique young man in anyway I can, reach his ultimate potential in sport. As an aside to show you how great a young guy he is. Two weeks ago, he won a small local triathlon in Ontario in the morning, then got on his bike and rode the 120km from the race site to my Kids of Steel Triathlon Venue to help volunteer for 8 hours setting up the kid's race course. The next day he spent 12 hours volunteering at the kid's race all day (instead of out doing his own training for Syracuse). In 30+ years of coaching and emceeing triathlon races all over the world, I have seen many athletes who claim they want to be great (but won't do the sacrifices required to be great). While there are no guarantees in life, I am a very good feeling about Lionel Sanders and the respect he has for the work required (and the great athletes he has to ultimately beat one day) to be a world champion. Its nice when great things happen to people who work hard for their dreams.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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Barrie,

Great back-ground. Thanks.

Triathlon while it's made up of three sports, swim/bike/run, has always been a bit more about the run. If for no other reason than the run is last! In deep competitive races, you run for the win and tops places in the top 10. Yes, occasionally, a race is won on the bike, but note what I said - "deep competitive races". Here, most often the top places are all decided by who runs the fastest!

I note this importance on the run is the same across most of the standard distance raced in the sport and formats ( drafting and no-drafting).

Of course we know that triathlon-running is different from just open stand-alone running, but let's be honest at the world class level, to be competitive internationally from a sprint race right through to an Ironman, you need to have close to national caliber run fitness and speed. Lionel has that, and it will serve him well as he evolves as a triathlete.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Jun 23, 14 11:45
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Its interesting that some world-class runners, have not transferred over directly to running fast off the bikes in triathlons. Dave Scott's best 10k, 1/2 marathon and full marathon times would have been respectable but not ridiculously fast. The thing that has been impressive with Lionel is how fast he has run in workouts, off the bike, after a very very hard bike. He would definitely fall into the group of unique athletes who's best 10k, 1/2 marathon and likely marathon run splits would be very close to his best times off the bike for those distances. I have seen 2:20 marathoners not be able to break 2:50 for the Ironman marathon and then runners like Lori Bowden break 3hrs off the bike in the Ironman marathon split, but not likely be able to run that much faster in a fresh marathon. Lionel definitely believes and knows he is going to have to run well under 2hrs 40min in the Ironman marathon down the road. But we all know that KNOWING & DOING are two different things. Its going to be a very interesting new era with Jan Frodeno, Bevan Docherty, Nicola Spirig and many other great past ITU athletes moving up to 70.3 and Ironman racing.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I will say that I think it might be the best ever pure run performance in a 70.3 race. That course is absurd. It has about 100m less net elevation than St. George, but it all comes at once. St. George is easier to get into a rhythm, both uphill and downhill. That course - Syracuse - you have to grind the uphill and then maintain really, really fast turnover on the downhill. St. George was also short; Syracuse MIGHT be short, but if so, not by much. I started my watch late, and I got closer to an accurate 21.1 than in St. George, which was clearly almost 1km short.

When I saw how fast Lionel ran, I was honestly in disbelief. He passed me on the flats, where it's easier to motor. I almost wished I'd gotten to see him run up and down the big hill, but he was basically gone by the time I got there.

Improvements on the swim and bike are never a given, and - even if they do come - they do not always come without a cost (upper body bulk, for example, or a compression of the hip flexors when getting into a better bike position that may impact running, even if it more than makes up for it in terms of overall race speed or even something as simple as the fact that riding harder - even if you can do it - has a real metabolic cost). But Lionel clearly has truly phenomenal ability as a runner.

Whether he is able to become a more balanced triathlete or not, I think we're in for some fireworks in upcoming races. Hopefully for quite a while.

As an aside, I think we should also appreciate that Andrew Yoder outbiked Lionel by almost the exact same amount that Lionel outran him by, riding solo, on a crazy hard course... And he did it ALL IN THE SMALL CHAINRING! Yoder's Di2 crapped out - by his own admission, he had been lazy about charging the battery, so it's his fault, not Shimano's - and he had to do the whole course in the small ring. Granted, the "hard" parts of that course were certainly doable in the small ring - many of the parts where you NEEDED the big ring you also could have just tucked and coasted.

Not trying to diminish Lionel's achievements. But I think Yoder's 2:07 on that course was also quite remarkable, especially in light of his mishap, which albeit was of his own making... But anyway, a super impressive pair of performances for 1st and 2nd. And a very bright future for both athletes...

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Good to hear a front row perspective from a Pro with your pedigree and you are -as always - bang on with your comments!
Big Improvements in the Colonel's swim especially, and bike certainly are NOT 'givens' and YES lets not forget that the sport is triathlon -not running - and Yoder indeed won the race!! ...and by a fairly healthy 2 minutes to boot! You would know better than anyone the kind of bike fitness needed to roll over that course in 2:07!! And then to still go sub 1:20 in the run !?!....wow




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Last edited by: shady: Jun 23, 14 10:30
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Really??? In the small chainring? I can only imagine what his cadence must have been on the bike half of the bike, that is nuts. Like you say almost as nuts as sub 70 on that run course... almost.

Ewan

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Any one know if he is after Kona points, or just staying with 70.3 this year?

Maurice
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Gervs] [ In reply to ]
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Even though I realize that the pro's are better than me that's really humbling. What an epic workout.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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I saw first hand how fast Lionel is at Muskoka last year. He was just in the last mile or so of his race as I was in the first mile or so of the run. He was flying yet looked like he was out for a stroll. Can't wait to see him at IMMT WC.

BTW Cody, great race on your part too. A 4th and a 5th in your first two 70.3s as a pro! Onwards and upwards!


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this and encouraging the discussion on Lionel.

All I can say is that its about damn time people start noticing Lionel and Cody. The things and improvements they have made in the past 2 years ive witnessed them, is staggering.

Lionel was competing in duathlons 2 years ago, barely knowing how to swim...and now he is only a few mins back off the leaders even in the swim.

Having personally seen both dominate at so many local races, I'm not at all surprised with Lionel's run, or Cody's performance.
I can echo their humility and down to earth nature.

Oh and thanks coach Barrie for your experience with Lionel.

Duathlete by choice?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Cody!
I was there too... Just wondering if you guys actually ran up that nasty climb at the end of each loop? I'm guessing that with that run split, Lionel actually flattened those hills without any problems!!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [losse] [ In reply to ]
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So what we're saying, is that if he could swim 3 minutes faster, he'd be running with Gomez and the Brownless in the ITU circuit?.... aren't they about the only others on the planet that can consistently hit sub 1:10... if they really trained and raced for long course?


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Actually its' a little funny in that first place was the siwm/bike specialist. 2nd was the run specialist. 3rd was the somewhat unusual swim/runner combo.


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [losse] [ In reply to ]
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losse wrote:
Cody!
I was there too... Just wondering if you guys actually ran up that nasty climb at the end of each loop? I'm guessing that with that run split, Lionel actually flattened those hills without any problems!!

The form of locomotion I used on that climb barely qualified as running. Power walking might have been more efficient at some points, but psychologically, I felt it was important to not allow myself to walk.

Lionel passed me near the bottom of the second lap climb. I don't think anyone "flattened those hills without any problems" but he looked way better than anyone else. I bet he would have run sub-1:08 on a flat course!

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Cody Beals wrote:
losse wrote:
Cody!
...I felt it was important to not allow myself to walk.

For pride's sake, I felt the same way. I ran up that first part of the climb but after making the right turn and seeing the next "bump" I said I f*** pride!! It's been a while since I walked during a half... Even muskoka last year, ran the entire thing.

Congrats again!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [blitzkrieg] [ In reply to ]
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blitzkrieg wrote:
Thanks for posting this and encouraging the discussion on Lionel.

All I can say is that its about damn time people start noticing Lionel and Cody. The things and improvements they have made in the past 2 years ive witnessed them, is staggering.

Lionel was competing in duathlons 2 years ago, barely knowing how to swim...and now he is only a few mins back off the leaders even in the swim.

Having personally seen both dominate at so many local races, I'm not at all surprised with Lionel's run, or Cody's performance.
I can echo their humility and down to earth nature.

Oh and thanks coach Barrie for your experience with Lionel.

You mean Lionel didn't thank Barrie on his Blog??
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [ptakeda] [ In reply to ]
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haha...I meant to thank coach Barrie for posting the experience he had with Lionel. ..And the fact that he didn't attend the Binbrook awards ceremony not just to get a long ride in, but to volunteer at Barrie's race.

Smartypants.

Duathlete by choice?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [blitzkrieg] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. A really inspiring story. Being a newbie I hadn't heard of Lionel. Now I'll keep an eye out for him.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan to have such an expert make a comment about Lionel is greatly appreciated by those of us who have been supporting his career. You are also correct what an incredible 2:07 ride for the 90k on that Syracuse Bike Course. The quality of 70.3 racing is only going to get more exciting as strength athletes like Lionel get further entrenched into the 70.3 racing, and pure-speed athletes like Javier, Alistair, Jan, Bevan, Nicola come into the racing as well. People have asked about Lionel's 2014/2015 plans and we are looking at a "learning" Ironman sometime later this year. 2015 will definitely be a 70.3 and Ironman year as he continues to improve in all three sports. I anticipate that great bikes by Andrew Yoder and runs by Lionel Sanders will only require everyone in the sport to bring their individual games up another notch. ITU saw it when Whitfield came along. Then when Javier came along, and now with the Brownlees. I think that 70.3 will go through a similar realignment where top bikes and runs will be expected and everyone will have to find another 2-5% in their game to have a chance to win or be on the podium. A very exciting time to be involved in the sport.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I will say that I think it might be the best ever pure run performance in a 70.3 race. That course is absurd. It has about 100m less net elevation than St. George, but it all comes at once. St. George is easier to get into a rhythm, both uphill and downhill. That course - Syracuse - you have to grind the uphill and then maintain really, really fast turnover on the downhill. St. George was also short; Syracuse MIGHT be short, but if so, not by much. I started my watch late, and I got closer to an accurate 21.1 than in St. George, which was clearly almost 1km short.

The 'Cuse course is the hardest run course I have ever done. It's not so much the overall gain but, as you point out, it's where the gain comes. 80% of the gain comes from one hill (done 2x). It's a mile up and a mile down (done 2x) of pure suck. It's getting a heck of a reputation like St. George, Quassy or Muskoka for it's run difficulty.

It's funny when I hear people talking about how hard/hilly the 70.3 run is at Austin or Boulder or whatever... and not that they're flat but the 'Cuse course is just brutal in comparison. The last time I did Syracuse was the first year this run course was in place (2012). That hill just killed me.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [bpiebenga] [ In reply to ]
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You'll need a slow motion camera.

Duathlete by choice?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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Barry, do you know something about Nicola's plans for the future that we don't? I thought she always said that she didn't like/want to go long (apart from the occasional 70.3)?
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [shady] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know what Lionel's FTP is? I would assume 300 watts is about 80-85% for him. I'd love to incorporate this brick into my workouts. Intense!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [homeloans365] [ In reply to ]
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homeloans365 wrote:
Does anyone know what Lionel's FTP is? I would assume 300 watts is about 80-85% for him. I'd love to incorporate this brick into my workouts. Intense!

I saw a reference of Lionel as being 5'10" 160... but i bet he really races closer to 155-158. I've discovered that some of these run specialists in the sub 70kg range are sometimes extremely aero due to the size, good position and equipment. Meaning his FTP might "only" be 315W and for a 2:16, he may have strategically rode 84-85% at just 265 Watts and guaranteed a good run.

My point being that's it's easier to guess at power of a larger, taller rider, but harder with a run specialist.

My point being that without knowing his Cda... his wattage doesn't really matter all that much.


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [homeloans365] [ In reply to ]
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Lionel posts quite a bit of his data on his blog, especially during this past offseason when he was getting used to his Computrainer. You can find it here. You might have to sift back to when he was posting more of his data.

After watching him burst onto the scene like this, and knowing how goal-oriented he is, I can't wait to see how quickly his swim and bike progress. In University I lived in the same house and shared a floor/ceiling with him the year he decided to re-learn how to play the drums. After training for 3 or 4 hours, he would sit down at his drum kit in the basement, sometimes around 8 or 9pm, and play for 5 or 6 hours straight trying to master it. For the whole school year. It used to piss me off...but now I have a story to tell my future kids ;). Since then I have learned to have full confidence that this guy will not stop until he is the best in the world.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
homeloans365 wrote:
Does anyone know what Lionel's FTP is? I would assume 300 watts is about 80-85% for him. I'd love to incorporate this brick into my workouts. Intense!


I saw a reference of Lionel as being 5'10" 160... but i bet he really races closer to 155-158. I've discovered that some of these run specialists in the sub 70kg range are sometimes extremely aero due to the size, good position and equipment. Meaning his FTP might "only" be 315W and for a 2:16, he may have strategically rode 84-85% at just 265 Watts and guaranteed a good run.

My point being that's it's easier to guess at power of a larger, taller rider, but harder with a run specialist.

My point being that without knowing his Cda... his wattage doesn't really matter all that much.


or...or....he may have ridden on the back of motorcycle into T2
Do we have any eye witnesses in Syracuse who actually saw the Colonel ride into T2 and dismount from a tribike??


:)




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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [shady] [ In reply to ]
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He does share a lot of power info in his blogs, an estimate of 315W might be low by 100 watts or more...

From his blog
"As I spoke about in a previous post, I held 430w for 20 minutes by myself, in the privacy of my training room, over a month ago. So I was quite confident that if the bikes were even remotely accurate, I would be able to do this again (seeing as the bike was only 15 minutes in duration). Initially, Barrie Shepley sent out the points system to a few of us for review, and the 1000 pt standard i.e. the highest you could possibly score, was 420 watts. I sent him a message telling him I’m pretty certain I can hold more than that, and so he reset the highest standard as 450 watts."
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Jmath] [ In reply to ]
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Jmath wrote:
He does share a lot of power info in his blogs, an estimate of 315W might be low by 100 watts or more...

From his blog
"As I spoke about in a previous post, I held 430w for 20 minutes by myself, in the privacy of my training room, over a month ago. So I was quite confident that if the bikes were even remotely accurate, I would be able to do this again (seeing as the bike was only 15 minutes in duration). Initially, Barrie Shepley sent out the points system to a few of us for review, and the 1000 pt standard i.e. the highest you could possibly score, was 420 watts. I sent him a message telling him I’m pretty certain I can hold more than that, and so he reset the highest standard as 450 watts."

If that's the case, then given his size/weight, he needs to work on his bike and position a little I think.... or he's riding at 80% and now we really know how he can do a 1:09. Not to take away form that. He might be on to something. He's giving up maybe 3 minutes on the bike to run 4 minutes faster. That's low risk for him since he's already well behind the lead pack out of the water, so the best strategy, like for most run specialists, is to go for the best time overall and not chase splits or try and catch the field on the bike. (ie, Rinny at Kona).


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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He had the fastest bike split at Muskoka 70.3 last year, and also ran a crazy fast run time. It's only a matter of time before he puts it all together in a real big race - maybe Tremblant in September will be his coming out party.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I think he rides (or did until recently) a Louis Garneau frame. Not sure how significant the difference between this bike and the super bikes would be, but I'm sure there are some gains for him to be had upgrading to a better bike.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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psychosyd wrote:
I think he rides (or did until recently) a Louis Garneau frame. Not sure how significant the difference between this bike and the super bikes would be, but I'm sure there are some gains for him to be had upgrading to a better bike.

Good point!
Are the folks at Cervelo living under a rock !!..Step up and put the Colonel on a P5 already!!



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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Jmath] [ In reply to ]
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Jmath wrote:
He does share a lot of power info in his blogs, an estimate of 315W might be low by 100 watts or more...

From his blog
"As I spoke about in a previous post, I held 430w for 20 minutes by myself, in the privacy of my training room, over a month ago. So I was quite confident that if the bikes were even remotely accurate, I would be able to do this again (seeing as the bike was only 15 minutes in duration). Initially, Barrie Shepley sent out the points system to a few of us for review, and the 1000 pt standard i.e. the highest you could possibly score, was 420 watts. I sent him a message telling him I’m pretty certain I can hold more than that, and so he reset the highest standard as 450 watts."

Good god.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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I was in the women's pro race, and I got to see Lionel run by as I was starting on my first loop...he was flying! He made me look like I was walking, and I thought I was running pretty well (I had the second fastest women's run and even passed Rapp on my first loop)...while the run course was hilly and contained slow grass sections, it was a tad short, I think I had it at 13.0 on my Garmin. At any rate, that is a sick run. Great to see a fellow Canadian tearing it up!

“To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.” – Steve Prefontaine | http://www.kirstyjahntriathlon.com | twitter: @kirstyjahntri
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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psychosyd wrote:
I think he rides (or did until recently) a Louis Garneau frame. Not sure how significant the difference between this bike and the super bikes would be, but I'm sure there are some gains for him to be had upgrading to a better bike.

Likewise Cody is riding his own P2! - A tricked out one at that, but come on bike manufacturers step up! :)
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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not sure there is a big difference between a P2 and LG but for sure Cervelo do not have other sponsorships to offer in bike shoes, clothing etc...i don't obviously know Lionel's contracts etc. but I suspect some bundling of product going on.

To me travelling with bikes is always a concern so not sure, per some other posts if a tricked out P5 is worth it with the packing and unpacking & hydraulic brakes, front end nose cones, back brakes tucked away or even horizontal dropouts is worth the potential stress of last minute fixes at race site. That's just me though. I suck as a wrench. Like, suck! My P3 horizontal drop out screws stripped day i was leaving for IMC one year. That was a hectic trip and some serious wrenching at my LBS. Consequence is the screw is permanently in place now. Just my opinion but sometimes these marginal gains are in fact tipping into impending disaster. Even Yoder at Syracuse with his Di2 battery, completely his fault not charging, but there you go....forgot to charge and rode race on small ring.

anyway, back to point of thread...Lionel... i really look forward to watching his progress professionally and personally. He is all class and really represents to me, what CAN a person do. He has serious talent and is applying it. Go after it mate!

@rhyspencer
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [KirstyDSmith77] [ In reply to ]
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KirstyDSmith77 wrote:
I was in the women's pro race, and I got to see Lionel run by as I was starting on my first loop...he was flying! He made me look like I was walking, and I thought I was running pretty well (I had the second fastest women's run and even passed Rapp on my first loop)...while the run course was hilly and contained slow grass sections, it was a tad short, I think I had it at 13.0 on my Garmin. At any rate, that is a sick run. Great to see a fellow Canadian tearing it up!

Great run Kirsty and not to piss on your parade ...you may have passed Rapp but he ran 1:23 to your 1:25:) I would restructure that comment:)


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [shady] [ In reply to ]
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Shady, I'm well aware my split was slower, he was just dying bad on the second loop, so I did actually pass him on the hills and stayed ahead of him while I was on my first loop and he was finishing....my main point was that I was just shocked to see Lionel running that fast, it was quite remarkable...but thanks for clarifying.

“To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.” – Steve Prefontaine | http://www.kirstyjahntriathlon.com | twitter: @kirstyjahntri
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [KirstyDSmith77] [ In reply to ]
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KirstyDSmith77 wrote:
Shady, I'm well aware my split was slower, he was just dying bad on the second loop, so I did actually pass him on the hills and stayed ahead of him while I was on my first loop and he was finishing....my main point was that I was just shocked to see Lionel running that fast, it was quite remarkable...but thanks for clarifying.

Kristy I just wanted to say thanks for posting here, congrats on your race and way to crush a brutal run course!!!

************************
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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5.9 w/kg?? ... according to 'the chart' he should be racing pro cycling.
Last edited by: buzz: Jun 25, 14 3:23
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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For those following this post and would like to follow his career more closely, check out his blog and his Syracuse race report. If you're looking for more examples of what a straight shooting and humble personality this guy is, I think this quote from his recap is awesome.

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At around mile 8 I caught Jordan Rapp. This was a cool experience as I have never seen Jordan in real life, so it was interesting to catch a glimpse of someone in person that I have read so much about.

http://lsanderstri.com/...6/25/syracuse-recap/

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Oh totally, but at the level that Cody and him are punching at now, even LG needs to step up. They have a newer frame out there and I'm sure it is faster. The current frame is no brick, but over the distances he is racing I'm sure there are significant (at the pro level) gains to be had. That being said, he is very new to the game, and he needs to buff out his resume a bit more before the big companies will be knocking at his door.

It may also be advantagious for him to wait a bit and stack up a few more solid results and then he will be able to demand more when the time to wheel and deal comes.

Interesting to see what happens. If LG is smart they lock him up good and solid if they can.

Cody, on the other hand is allready on a WC frame! (good ol chrisie). Likewise, it might be better for him to rack up some results before locking into the sponsorship game.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't think the new LG Gennix TR1 looked that bad (if that is what he is on).
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Jmath] [ In reply to ]
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no, that frame looks pretty slick. Last I saw he was on the previous frame. (see the top of his blog)

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