Don't know how long they'll last but seems like you have an excellent chance of being on an AG podium in a full!

I've been wondering about them, too. I've been wanting to do one of their events (I actually like the idea of only having 16 full distance competitors) but it hasn't fit into the schedule/vacation plans. I'm on their e-mail lists and it seems even that has become a bit quieter over the last 6 months or so. I really want to see some of these organizations do well, as having choices benefits us as consumers. But, with HITS' lack of growth and Rev 3's move away from pro purses and loss of the West Virginia race, it seems like the cost/benefit analysis of a traveling, nationwide series isn't working in too many organization's favor. You can go down the list and see some pretty obvious trends:

HITS - no growth.
Rev 3 - no more pro purses, WV out. Had already lost Portland. Mexico expansion has potential?
Toughman - continues to expand with new races - worth watching.
Challenge - continuing to expand in North America. Since their U.S. races haven't run yet, still need to see how things shake out.
Leadman - initially seemed like this had the potential to have more races, but seem to have settled in with Tempe and Bend. Not sure if this is good or not.

Of course, this is n=1 perception. Please tell me I'm wrong on much of this and all is well!

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Did the sprint the first year it started in Corpus. Was very disappointed with the .76 cent finisher medal they gave away for the amount of money I paid for a sprint race. I understand it was their first year. MIGHT have gone back but they did away with Corpus race. Not work traveling further than that for me.

I thought HITS ran a good race. Not WTC quality, or even some of the premier local race quality, but definitely worth the price of admission I paid. The RD was great to.

I guess at the end of the day, there really isn't much demand for national level third parties. So my only hope is that some of the local races remain.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I did HITS MF70.3 over the weekend and was impressed by what I experienced. Reading past posts about the race I didnt know what to expect...Ive heard the bike course was horrible with cattle guards and rough spots and very little support. It seems they have been listening and have catered to requests. The swim was simple and well marked....water was very clear....I would say 4-5 feet of visibility looking down. Bike course roads were very nice and smooth. They did a good job of keeping traffic away from the competitors except for a few obvious stretches. It was marked well and support was very acceptable to me. The bike course was very hilly and very challenging to maintain a steady power. Run course was out n back with plenty of support but also...very hilly and very challenging. The folks were very pleasant and helpful and I hope it catches some steam in the next few years....they really seem to want to work out the kinks and get the perfect race together. Unfortunately Marble Falls is having a remodeling project on their major bridge and this affects the course layout for sure...and I am sure some picky people just will not have the patience for that.

ALSO: Its a HARD ASS course! not a fast course.....and I believe most people want a FAST course so they can get their times down.

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"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

The cattle guards were only there on the first year, I think - I did the sprint last year and the half this year, and didn't hit any either time. And a course in Marble Falls will never be fast. Their local tri is called "the one with the hills".

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

so you 'race' for medals and not course quality, support, and proper timing? just go buy a medal on ebay and run some laps around your house.

The HITS company (which is HUGE in the Equestrian community) has plenty of money. So the question is not how long they can survive, but rather, how long will they be willing to continue producing triathlons if they keep attracting the current or similar number of athletes.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I think one of their biggest issues with Marble Falls is the timing of when they hold the event. It is three weeks after Galveston 70.3 and three weeks before IMTX.

Hey synthetic calm down. A nice commemorative medal is always appreciated especially for my first triathlon ever. And I was not the only person that thought the same thing. It was a well put on event unfortunately a friend was hit by a car on the bike course. Luckily, he wasn't hurt.

I just don't think there's room for them in the market. You can't just create 7 events and expect them all to be world class or have a big draw. There's at least a dozen full and 1/2 distance races on my bucket list(and more that I'd like to do again) and I don't travel for short course. I have nothing against HITS, but I have absolutely no reason to go to one of their races.

  
Look at a case study of Rev3 vs HITS both race companies that went "national".

Rev3 offered huge prize purses to entice "named" athletes to race and get their name out there in media. I don't know but I've never heard of pros' doing HITS races.

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------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

This was my first time racing a HITS event (raced the half as well this weekend) and I completely agree with everything you said. I was concerned about knowing the course beforehand which Mark Wilson, the RD, can attest to because I emailed him back and forth a few times beforehand. He was very helpful and got back to me quickly, plus it turns out there was no need for concern because it was well marked, all of the bike mile markers were spot on, and there were volunteers at the turn-arounds. I believe some things could have been communicated a little bit better beforehand (or perhaps the athlete guide could've been sent out earlier), but overall I'm honestly impressed with the whole thing. It was a good, challenging course. I'm really surprised more people don't race them.

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_____________________________________
http://fellainyella.com // http://racelab.com

Galveston is moved to April 26 2015.

I suspect they'll do fine.

The Half distance runs concurrently as the full, so they're not losing much by putting on the full - it's just a few more hours of course time on top of the fixed expenses.

Also, a lot of people sign up but don't show on race day - at Napa last year, over half the HIM spots were empty. (You can tell because they reserve stools with your name/number on them in transition - half my rack was empty.)

It's also a much more low key event - which I like. No big schwag bag, no big party - very minimal food, even less than that of the local sprints I've done here in Norcal. Just racing, no fuss, no muss. I do hope the continue though.

Which is the same weekend that they are doing Marble Falls next year.

They are a large producer of jumping horse shows. HITS (Horse shows In The Sun). Weird name.

And I think that's the niche they're going for--two tiers down in production value from WTC and Rev3 and a more mom-and-pop feel. I didn't mind not having "name" pros at HITS NV . . . hell, the winner was being paced by a coach on an MTB when I saw him on the out-and-back run.

But if they could take COJO's advice and build courses where AG'ers have a shot at a PR (as opposed to Marble Falls and a hilly course (bike AND run) with poor roads in Napa), HITS would thrive. Sad but true.

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_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

Not sure what you are talking about for Napa 2014. They sold out the Sprint/Olympic.

Sprint 408
Olympic 357

Have done it 3 years in a row, and signed up for next year.

Great hard solid course early in the season. What is the issue?

..

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Galveston in early April sure was preferable. Do you know if the move a one year thing to avoid Easter? The move probable takes it off my schedule.

Where is confirmation of the Marble Falls 2015 date?

Actually, makes you wonder if hey should run a 2x bigger field on two different weekends, one for the sprints and the other for Olys, if their selling both out.

I would still be hesitant to do a full here, just because you'd be so lonely on the course. But it's def true odds of podiuming here are higher!

I'm not sure what's going to happen with Galveston after 2015 since IMTX is moving up on the calendar.

As for the date of HITS MF 2015, I asked the RD in the Marble Falls 2013 thread that was revived leading up to this past weekend and that's when he said it was going to be.

Do you know a date for IMTX 2015?

And 365 and 311 in 2013. Like I said, similar numbers.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

It's to avoid Easter.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I have seen it's going to be May 16th.

Then starting in 2016 it's going to move up to April.

IMTX will still be in mid-May for 2015 and 2016. The move to April doesn't happen until year 2 of the new contract, which is 2017.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

HITS would be incredibly foolish to hold the MF race the same day as Galveston.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

They gave a finisher's medal for a sprint triathlon? Weird.
Thinking it wasn't good enough? Even weirder.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

He could always say he raced the ironman distance ;).

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

HITS also does a running series 5k-26.2 with some courses boston certified. Meb K who won boston was at this past weekend event in Kingston NY. I love the no pressure option of this race that you can drop down in distance if you want.

I raced HITS Ocala last year. I almost did it again this year, but didn't want to race a HIM that early. I might be moving to Scottsdale and cancel out of Miamiman in November, so the Lake Havasu caught my attention. I would race with them again in a heart beat.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

HITS has attracted some followers at the sprint and olympic levels, but there can be no doubt that at the FULL 140.6 distance, the series is a spectacular failure. Getting a podium spot or even winning a HITS full means nothing. With so few entrants, I'm surprised these folks just don't save their money and do the distance completely on their own...really not much difference than what it is now...minimal support for an essentially solo effort.

That said, I've read lots of positive comments about Mark Wilson in other forums over the past 2 years. He is trying. So as long as the horse owners are willing to subsidize this series, then I think it's a good thing for all of us that the option is there. However, they apparently misjudged the growth curve of the sport and it won't surprise me at some point if they pull the plug.

Hi GMAN...Thank you for asking! FYI, I plan on another 17 years as the RD for HITS Endurance (we're in our 3rd year now); so, fasten your seat belts, Everyone, and enjoy the ride. It's about endurance...remember?!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

I dont really foresee an easy or fast course for the Marble Falls area HOWEVER, I believe they may can capitalize on the niche of superior challenge. Ive done BSLT and have heard many times over of the difficulty of BSLT......after Saturday...BSLT has NOTHING on the challenge of this last MF70.3 by HITS.

Maybe even give it an intimidating title like "The Hills have Tris" and advertise along the lines of ...I dare you to come try this course. Who needs pros anyways.

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"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

"Getting a podium spot or even winning a HITS full means nothing.".......tell that to the people that did win or podium. Im happy for them....they kicked ass, and in a relative way...they are true champions. Theres a niche for the ones who dont live and breath triathlon, who are simply searching for a healthy lifestyle, and still want a bit of competitiveness to go along with it and be a positive example for society. Its not all a dick measuring contest of THE BEST races with THE BEST racers.

Also tell that to the badass volunteers and Mark, whom all busted their asses so the racers could enjoy their sufferfest. The volunteers literally kept me going....they were working to keep us motivated and did a fantastic job. My day started piss poor with a mechanical failure early in the morning and I was late for the swim...wanted to throw in the towel....they quickly got my bike in to the onsite mechanic and kept my head in the game....then at T2 made a comment on how much time I had made up after my mechanical. Aid stations were literally wiping me down with sponges and pleasantly conversing with me while I hydrated. They WORKED hard.

Sorry...but that comment you made was just very shallow and insensitive. If it means nothing to you...dont mention it.

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"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

As someone who did the half on Saturday as a tuneup for BSLT, I like hearing that!

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I like your attitude at least.

While you're on the line... what's your rational for scheduling next year's Marble Falls race the same weekend/day as the Texas 70.3 in Galveston? Business decisions like that aren't going to keep you in business for another 17 years. I don't mean that to sound harsh but that's a mind boggling decision to me.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

We didn't schedule it on the same weekend as Galveston; they moved their date to ours. As I've mentioned to others who were concerned about this, there are plenty of Texas triathletes that like HITS; we'll do just fine. Train well!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Or like "the world's toughest half" in Auburn CA.

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_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

Did the Grand Junction half last year and doing it again this year. Great value for the money. Nice to do a half at this point in the season to warm up for a full later in the year. Ditto on the Race Director. I hope they are around for a very long time.

Well yes, I would tell someone in a factual, non-emotional sense that winning their age group in a HITS Full doesn't mean anything when there isn't any competition to speak of. And I would tell that to the volunteers and to Mark. However, you've twisted my comment which applies only to the Full Distance. I didn't say anything negative about Mark, the volunteers, or the overall race climate. You are part of the HITS following that I mentioned and the series is doing something right to generate that reaction. It just doesn't seem to be enough though because the series is not really growing even with the pricing structure they had last year. Anyway, go back and re-read my post. How you twisted my comment about the complete absence of a competitive field over the HITS 1406. distances - ONLY - into an attack on volunteers is beyond my understanding.

They do a nice job with their events, I like those guys. My thought is the run course is boring and hot. Maybe if they run it through the wine country it would be more attractive? That course is tough btw. MF is cute, but also not a destination city.

16?? that's a group ride not a race.... Who wants to "race" 15 others??

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Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com

I wonder why 70.3 Galveston wasn't moved to March 29th, because the early season date and mild weather are two attractive aspects Galveston had. By moving a month later, key distinctions are lost.

My guess is a scheduling conflict with Moody Gardens. Probably also why it wasn't the 12th or 19th. I'm sure they would have much preferred that the 70.3 not take place three weeks before IMTX but Easter falling on the 5th screwed them. I'm sure they will lose some business from the IMTX crowd who won't want to do a 70.3 twenty days earlier.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I've done HITS Napa and was quite happy with my overall experience. I was planning on doing it this year but unfortunately I was unable to. To your point of a podium not meaning anything at a HITS race. Relatively speaking, a podium finish in any race doesn't mean anything. Ironman, Rev3, Challenge, HITS, etc. Is a 4:30 different when you beat 12 people instead of 100? All things equal, is a 4:45 better if you beat 100 people than a 4:30 if you beat 3? I don't get it, most of us are just AG racing. If getting our Elite Card is what we're after, we wouldn't be racing HITS to begin with.

Mark, fair enough that WTC moved the Galveston date. That stated, they announced their 2015 date before you did.

I'm inquisitive by nature so what's your reaction when you saw that Galveston moved to the same weekend? You have to know that's going to have a huge effect on your race. For example, if you're a struggling coffee shop (not yet established, not yet successful) and Starbucks moves in next store... you move to a new location because odds are Starbucks is going to cream you (pun intended) and put you out of business.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Please take a reading class. I specifically stated that I was referring to a podium position in a FULL distance race. My comment does not apply to any other HITS distance so your strawman argument about a HIM time has no relevance. But yes, the same time over a similar course or conditions would be just as good if not better in a HITS race specifically due to the lack of competition. And while times are useful metric, in the final analysis, racing is a concept that entails competition against others, not just the clock ... whether you are an AG racer (as am I) or an Elite.

Instead of taking it so literally, double the times to make it full distance (or cut it in half for an Olympic) and my point remains the same. I'm sorry if you don't get my point, perhaps I should also enroll in a writing class.

Ahh, riding….The ONLY sport which costs more than triathlon. My meager living can attest to this- all money goes towards the horses and triathlon.

Twisting your comments would mean that I purposely changed what I knew to be true.....Instead...I gave you my genuine interpretation of your message that you wrote. After re-reading your post several times over...Im still convinced about the first paragraph...it looks like a straight up 'bash'...smells like a 'bash' and sounds like a 'bash'. I did my my part by rereading as you requested and it seems as if some others have made the same interpretation as I. Maybe you should re-read before you post to make sure that your message is clear? I dont think you meant any ill-will however, that first paragraph is a flat out bash on anyone who participated or was involved in that 140.6 race. If that was not your intentions....then you need to learn some tact.

These folks took great care of me Saturday and the 140.6 racers worked very hard that day and the months leading up to it...I hung around and watched some of them. So I take it personal because we all suffered together. And if you were one of the volunteers working your ass off for me...or one of the 140.6 podium winners that suffered right along with me(only twice as far).....I would defend you also.

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"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

I did the Oly this weekend at MF as a tuneup (success there) for Gulfcoast in two weeks. To get right to the point, I agree that at least for this area, they should focus on the Oly/Sprint distance. They could really blow it out of the water if they dropped the expense/energy of the half/full distance and made a weekend out of Oly/sprint. Perhaps, a sprint on Saturday and then Oly Sunday, and heck have a points shootout for doing the double. They need to face it . . . most folks doing half and full want more than to just do the distance (prestige and Mike Riley) . . . and the purists can put on their on personal iron distance race.

Use the extra manpower and budget for better post race food, entertainment, race support, and on course support/nutrition. I think the venue/course are excellent.
Swim- Clean water, wetsuit legal temps, calm, very spectator friendly (best my wife has experienced)
Bike- Simple course, roads a bit rough but very safe (no potholes/cracks), 8-10foot shoulder in general despite good traffic control, Profile was rolling (kinda tuff for average cyclist, but very manageable)
Run-Flat camber shoulder out and back, no shade, but no problem . . . rolling but 6% grade at most\\\
Summary- not a PR course, but simple to manage, and a good challenge. Someone referred to Buffalo Springs and I'd say the MF course is a good warmup for that . . . but the bike at BS is a bit steeper and more technical decents, run at BS is tougher (steeper hills and definitely hotter).

But to the point of the OP, if they stay with the current game plan at MF; I'd say it fails. You just can't be all things . . . pick something and do it very well. They did both days basically at Par.

I heard the 8th place AG ribbons they gave out were cheesy too.

Absolutely! It is a straight up, tactless, but FACTUAL punch to the nose that goes directly to the heart of the OP's question...the future viability of the race series. And what did I say ... "there can be no doubt that at the FULL 140.6 distance, the series is a spectacular failure. Getting a podium spot or even winning a HITS full means nothing." Maybe that hit some nerves but all the counter arguments are veering off in another direction. Do you really want to argue that the FULL distance races are a wild success? That 140.6 races with fewer than 20 finishers are not only financially successful but also competitive?

In no way does the complete absence of a competitive race diminish the achievement of those who did it. In fact their finisher's medal is as good as any other race (metaphorically speaking apart from the 76 cents medal someone else complained about). But a podium place in the HITS Full is nothing to brag about. Many age groups are completely unrepresented and others have 1 to 3 entrants. Thems are facts! And it's not like the top long course AG racers are coming out of the woodwork to be 1 of 1 in their division at HITS. I venture that some of the overall winners would have great difficulty placing in their AG in other race series (e.g., WTC or Challenge).

Financially and competitively, it all boils down to the abysmally low turn-out for the full distance offering which doesn't seem to be changing after over two years. So debate that if you want, but don't twist it into an attack on volunteers or something else about the race which I did not say. If it will make you happy, then kudos to the volunteers at the race you did.

I cant say the HITS 140.6 series has been a success or a failure at this point...because I dont know their objective. Neither do you. So its pointless to argue that part of it. Again, Im not twisting your words....and you are the one who has veered this argument off. My original problem was with your comments sounding insensitive and shallow...especially in the first paragraph of your post. i stand by that...your comments are insensitive and shallow. You could have gotten your point out with much better taste and a much better vernacular that would actually encourage the growth of the race and the sport in general. But when people google HITS 170.3 to find out if they should give it a shot now...theyre going to read a post that mentions "epic failure" "to podium means nothing" "people should just go do the distance on their own". Maybe HITS is targeting the exact demograph they are getting...sure numbers are low...but this is only its 3rd year at MF....and kinks are getting worked out. If HITS objective was to compete with IM140.6.....then youre distastefully right. I was only trying to point out that the words you used were crap and in NO WAY promoted the sport nor did it promote another race series that many of us can benefit from. Its a low key and enjoyable race that needs to be promoted not bashed.

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"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

I think they should time their races same date as WTC events but charge 1/2 the price. I think the people complaining about low turn out for 140.6 saying its a group ride - probably like to draft? Why are you worried about other people and not being the best you can be? Its not like you are going for a pro purse prize.

We're going to do just fine. Thanks for asking!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

POTW

:)

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

_____

FLW ;-)

Okay, points for the clever response but the OP and others have made some reasonable points. It would be great to hear more from you than "We're going to do just fine. Thanks for asking".

• What's next for HITS, do you intend to continue the same format of all distances for your race series?
• Based on the full distance participation, does it really make sense to offer that option or could something be else done with the funds needed to manage those few racers?
• How can HITS improve the racer's experience for its events to help promote more participation?
• 
  Do you intend to offer better medals than those valued at .76 cents in the future?
  

It seems there's plenty of people on this board interested in your series, here's your chance to help us get on board.

Hi...Thank you for asking!

1. Yes, same format.
2. Yes, it makes sense for us; that income for the Full is needed to offset the overall cost. And, if you're gonna spend that much money for 1 event (airfare, lodging, salaries, per diem) and spend the time for set-up, why not do 5 distances?
3. We're listening to everyone; ALL of the feedback we get is immediately implemented...in many cases, even the next day.
4. I guess you haven't raced with us recently; the latest medals are quite nice by Always Advancing.

Does this help?

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Other than my pink font failure on the medal question I guess your succinct answers are fine. You really seem to be throwing your heart into this thread and it is quite telling to me. No sense in elaborating, it's only your chance to communicate with your customer base, after all.

Lots of luck with your series, don't bother wasting any more of your time here, I think we get the point.

He answered your questions. I personally appreciate brevity.

he answered your questions. chill out.

I don't see anything wrong with the answers he gave you - it was nice of him to take the time to post.

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Mark,

Does HITS ever plan on having prize purses for pros?

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speedySTATES

Hi Fartleker...Not at this time; at least, it's not been discussed. So, we're going with what we have right now; it's working, so full steam ahead. Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

You're right about that, he answered every question I asked, just as I asked them. My bad for not trying to create a better engagement for sure. I was simply hoping to hear more from him about what they're up to and probably should have not given him bullets to answer rather than offering some talking points. I should just avoid the pink font concept, maybe he thought I was just trolling...

It just seems like he's lost an opportunity to engage with some folks more than a snarky reply to the OP. I've seen plenty of others around here do a lot better when their brand is a topic of conversation and it certainly isn't the way I'd go about trying to get people interested in my race series.

Dave ... their numbers are up in the short race because Envirosports is not holding their races this weekend ... and their numbers are down in the long races.

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-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Well, if it helps at all, Mark does have his phone number in his posts. :)

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Isn't that cheating?

Maybe my phone is black and white . . . Was pink font intended?

The answer is Yes, even in a gorilla suit.

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_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

I am happy to answer just about any question you ask; however, I have a feeling you won't be satisfied with what/how I express it. Regardless, I'm here to help! What can I do for you?

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Pink font intended? Hell, I don't even know anymore.

In any case the post I quoted originally seemed to be insinuating that someone blatantly cheating and winning a race to boot somehow gives a "mom and pop" feel... Anyway... It's a discussion that really isn't Germane to the thread.

Dave, here is why I think their numbers are up, and I have done all their races at Napa and signed up for next year already.

First, the price!!! I just paid 65 bucks to register early for an Olympic race, nothing compares.

They are USAT sactioned. (I basically only do USAT races now)

They are early in the season.

The Napa course is a nice hard hilly bike and a real hard total hilly run course. I love this, very little drafting opportunity.

This it is a hard course, with a good quality/quantity field, decent USAT ranking point opportunity.

HITS transition area is the best of anyone on the Northern Calif circuit of races, minus WTC.

Swim has nice water to swim in.

Good parking.

Mark is always open to inputs.

Yep, their long numbers are down, but for the money and a nice honest tough course, for some, it is the best around. The half is a great distance for early in the season and is nice and hard. Full, well, WTC has the market but boy do you pay for it.

Bottom line, if the race was poor, I would not have already signed up for my 4th year, you know me.

..

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yes keep the 2 day format... people who do the 140.6 can do the olympic the next day and have true bragging rights! I remember at Havasu the 140.6 winner (low 10 hour time) did the spring next day and came in 3rd with a respectable time too.

Like you, I'm interested in HITS developments.

My family hadn't ever considered racing with HITS prior to two weeks ago. Saturday, we raced Marble Falls Half. Our desires for the event were delivered to a surplus. Due to 70.3 Galviston's 2015 date change to the same weekend as Hits Marble Falls, my family debated, and chose the Marble Falls Half for 2015 because it better meets our goals, which says a lot because Galveston is a good WTC race.

We realized Galveston's date change also left late March / early April open, and HITS Ocala still has early pricing for one more day, so we're registering. If Naples still had early pricing, we'd register for that too. We've gone from zero to possibly three HITS races for 2015, so I'm very interested in developments.

Thanks for the response but you've really got me all wrong. I was previously lurking around this thread because I'm interested in seeing groups other than WTC be successful. Of course, the thread was already well on its way to Godwin status when you dropped in but, in my opinion, showing up with a nice snarky shot at the OP wasn't really how I'd go about promoting my race series. Regardless, I thought I'd try and get things back on track and asked the questions I did simply to try and get you to maybe open up about what going on over there. Since then it seems like there's others interested in talking with you and you've been answering those questions so maybe my post helped get what I was hoping for anyway.

Actually, one specific question I have is whether or not HITS has any plans or has tried to put on an in-season race in southern California? It's been widely lamented that short of IMCA, there's few long course races in the region and if it can be pulled off, it should be a popular.

Again, thanks for participating. Maybe I came off poorly and that certainly wasn't my intention.

Maybe you might want to pick up the phone and call Mark and talk with him directly. Social Media, IMO, is the worst place to get answers on questions, and boy do I know this first hand. :o)

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

We might be missing the big picture here team. Anyone that organizes a start and finish line no matter what the program should be friends of ours and deserves our support.

Maybe they'll be more beers and pink tutu's at next years race? Don't forget this is an awesome, low stress first 1/2 iron distance and a great aqua bike full before Woodlands 140.6.

You do realize that Mark had posted several answers to the OP and others prior to his "We'll be fine, thanks for asking" post, right? That post wasn't his first on the thread (nor was it snarky IMHO)

I did HITS Grand Junction Oly last year. Mark did a great job and I had an awesome race. I would have done it again, but decided to focus only on Xterras.

And ironically, I was a hunter/jumper trainer for many years, so used to give lots of money to the HITS horse show series. I thought they were stalking me to get more of my money when they started the HITS triathlons!

I appreciate the "get this back on track". I think Mark handled it just fine. I didn't see it as snarky. I have been helping out a race director and it has been very clear to me how careful a race director's words need to be chosen when speaking to people. You never know what their mindset is when you respond. Some people may just be insecure about their first race, and some people feel they are part of a non-existent movement to destroy any races that they don't agree with (for a non-existent reason). If Mark had said, "We're making plenty of money.", Several people would have had their pitch-forks at the ready to say "Then why do you charge athletes so much?". It is a sad truth and I never saw it until I was on their side.

It is depressing to see how many athletes want to see race directors fail. An RD can say "lol...I wore mismatched shoes today!" and a handful of athletes will respond with, "That's because you let a volunteer gave me water instead of Gatorade last month, you jerk!". You can imagine how careful an RD must be when People are saying, "When is their company going to die?" with the underlying meaning of "ugghh...just go away" (at least that is how I interpreted it). There are many athletes that feel that no matter how little you charge and no matter how much you provide, they still want to see you crack...and for little or no reason.

I don't think he was snarky. I think he entered a den of wolves to make himself available and intelligently navigated it. If you want a "talk over beers" conversation...then have a "talk over beers"
conversation in person or over the phone....not a "Let me expose you in front of these people" conversation.

As an aside, the name comes from the fact that their first set of shows was in Ocala, Florida, in the winter. "Horse shows in the Sun" -> come down to Florida this winter to show in the sun. Then, if I recall correctly, they first expanded to hold other winter circuits - in California and Arizona. Then they expanded into other months and more northern locations, but kept the name.

I didn't take Mark's replies as snarky. I just took it as him not answering the question.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I really don't know what you're expecting. This would be like me asking CEOIronman when he thinks Providence Equity is going to sell it, and to who, for how much. If he answered, of course it would be a canned response about always keeping options open and seeking to provide the best experience to the competitors. Neither is going to hand insider info out on a public forum.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

He's not sinking to our level, a completely un-fun tactic which I admire.

"The bullshit piles up so fast around here you need wings to stay above it."

Anyone?

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_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

Mark...
YOUR race got me into Tri... into ALL of this.. did an Oly last year and my first half is next month... You got me down 30 lbs, and into health... the high 5 I got from you exiting the water in Naples was epic.

Thanks, and glad 'y'all are doing fine.

Dr. G

Didn't the original ironman race only have 12 guys finish? My guess is every one of those guys enjoyed racing each other.

Regardless, out here in Southern California they had an increase in participants for the 70.3 and 140.6 races. I believe they sold out the 70.3 in 2013:

70.3:
2012 -- 218 finishers
2013 -- 394 finishers

So the Palm Springs race seems to be doing well.

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Yep; Brian Folts.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Bless you, Damon; and, if you've got a group for Naples, I can get you a SWEET discount for that, too! Please let me know. Again, thank you for your support!!!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

No worries, Trainlighter; I'm truly happy to answer any questions...so, thank you very much for your interest in HITS!! Regarding an "in-season" southern CA HITS event; nope, we're VERY pleased with Palm Springs in December. However...with the right support locally (reduced or minimal police/venue/city fees) we could be swayed in that direction; please let me know if you and anyone else is interested. Sound good? Train well!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

---

Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Correct. Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

---

Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you, Dr. G; I'm so happy for you! Enjoy.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Correct. Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Mark, is the Grand Junction race going to stay around the same time next year? Was hoping for this year but it didn't work out with travel but hoping for next year. Thanks and best of luck with the series

Hi Iron07...Thanks for asking! And, yes, the GJ event will stay on the same weekend; too much going on at other times and the water/weather works on this particular weekend, as well. Sound good? Also, heads-up, there will be a STEEP discount available to the public on Sunday and Monday on race weekend; it's about 66% OFF everything (Sprint-Full). Enjoy. See you in 2015!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Just thought I'd pipe in here and echo some similar thoughts from others. Agree, the original post may have given off the wrong impression that for some reason the HITS series might be in trouble (but corrected later). Any company, that enters a new "business/industry" is faced with many challenges. Fortunately HITS has an established successful track record in the equestrian industry and I share the thoughts that any company helping to build and provide a service to triathlon should be welcomed. Yes, it's a somewhat unique event that some might like and others may not with the five different courses. It may not be as "formal" as the larger events that attract pros with prize money but if it's well organized with adequate safety precautions and provides the "essentials" of a nice venue, (the individual bike racks are a nice touch), good recognition for the winners, support services, food, etc., especially at a reasonable cost/price point, then that's usually good enough to provide a rewarding experience. I've only done one HITS event, (Naples, FL) in 2013, and Mark Wilson was very responsive before the race with communication and during the event as well, and is very open to suggestions for improvement the next time around. It was my experience at Naples if all RD's shared his openness and responsiveness, many races would be a better experience. I'm focusing on the larger events now, but would definitely do another HITS event if the opportunity presented itself (vacation in Naples again) and would not hesitate to recommend their event to anyone who is still developing their skills and might appreciate a little more relaxed environment and/or the more experienced triathlete who feels they might be ready for an overall winner podium spot. With other organizers going out of business (Columbia) and others doing major cutbacks (HyVee money/prizes), I hope their success continues.....it's good for the sport.

Thank you for your thoughtful post; MUCH appreciated. See you in Naples!!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thanks for all your feedback on this thread Mark, and yes I plan to see you in Colorado next May!

And that is why a lot of folks I talked to were there - lower numbers mean a much better chance of getting a podium.

Also, I have to tell you, I really liked the less crowded course at HITS.

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http://aclockworkmango.com

Also the only sport in which there are bigger prima donnas.

You haven't seen high maintenance until you've met someone with a $100,000 horse.

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http://aclockworkmango.com

Exactly, but even worse is the mom that spent $100k on a pony and wants to know why her daughter isn't winning more. "Uh, the reality is that you kid should play tennis." SPT - Should Play Tennis -- that's what people that have no feel for the horse are called.

I see we've met some of the same people :)

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http://aclockworkmango.com

100k !? That's nuthin'.

Nice!! And, it's my pleasure.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Thank you!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Late to this thread, but I have to chime in here. I have no idea what HITS financial situation is or how much they make/lose on their races, but I raced HITS North Country last year and it was an awesome experience. Totally different than WTC. Yeah, there wasn't the same hype without Kona/70.3 WC slots on the line but the cost was low, lodging in the area was cheap, and the RD added an amazing personal touch to the race. I think he met every athlete. Notice how he jumps on ST and answers every question as well as tackling criticism. I admire that and think they are really trying to present a different product on the market. I sure hope they last because I enjoy doing their races even though I also enjoy WTC races. As far as the race itself, it was pretty tough (58 mile hilly bike) but they covered all the important logistics (probably would be much more difficult with 2000 plus racers) and it really was an enjoyable, smaller race experience. Thanks Mark, I hope you have 17 more years as well.

Thank you, Sir; it means a lot to me! And, yes, I'm pacing myself...only 17 more years to go!!!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

The series seems to be run by idiots that have lots of connections in the marketing community. First of all, it is stupid to try and put on so many different distances into one event. It just isn't practical or logistically sound. It is difficult enough for a race director to host a sprint/oly/half combo. Second, they tried to host an event in Traverse City MI at the beginning of October! No one wants to do a race at the beginning of October in Northern MI. That is ludicrous. Not to mention MI has way too many tri's as it is!

davedaprato wrote:

The series seems to be run by idiots that have lots of connections in the marketing community. First of all, it is stupid to try and put on so many different distances into one event. It just isn't practical or logistically sound. It is difficult enough for a race director to host a sprint/oly/half combo. Second, they tried to host an event in Traverse City MI at the beginning of October! No one wants to do a race at the beginning of October in Northern MI. That is ludicrous. Not to mention MI has way too many tri's as it is!

ok... I assume maybe you had an episode while writing your last post ... but... before you give your opinion of the "idiots" who run the event, have you ever been to a HITS event?...And no doubt you have the most in depth history of race directing to provide the suggestion of how hard it is to produce an event... so I will be happy to place my foot in my mouth once you provide us with all of your personal knowledge / experience on the matter before I continue...

Thank you! It's true, hosting 5 triathlon distances at 10 venues and 5 running distances at 4 different venues around the USA is challenging...and, I wouldn't want it any other way. Thank you for your support!!!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Ignore the haters. I'm back for the second year and your event is a refreshing alternative to the WTC events.

Any idea on what the water temps will be next weekend?

Thanks, John! And, FYI, the Highline Lake Park Staff reported the water at 60 degrees; and, the air temps look like they'll be climbing all week into the mid-80's. We'll be good! See ya soon.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Mark, personally I hope that HITS continues to do well. I train/race with a group of MOP middle-aged athletes and having the multiple distances and aqua bike category allows all of the guys to compete on the same weekend, at the same race at the distance we are individually targeting. This is as much social for us as it is an athletic endeavor. Three of us are coming out to HITS North Country in June and 5 of us are doing HITS Hunter in September.

But a few of us have a request/question: If we register for the Half at Hunter before the June price increase and decide after North Country that we want to upgrade to the Full, can we pay the difference of the pre-June price?
Thanks and looking forward to seeing you in Hague, NY,
Adam

Wow, would that be great customer service if they can.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Please. We are not talking WTC which could be renames SOL.

Whether HITS would do it or not is another question. But they honestly will give it thought and consider it unliked the canned corporate response.

It's my pleasure; and, did you have a good time in Grand Junction?

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Hi Adam...Thank you for asking! And, I replied to your message directly...but wanted to mention it here, too. Yes, whatever the prices are when you register, you'd pay that pricing difference to upgrade to a longer distance. Sound good? See you soon!!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Done.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Hi Maui5150...I want to honor the fact that folks have committed to race with HITS; if you register and want to go long(er), that works for me. And, you should in return be supported because of the decision to register EARLY; I want you to register early in order for HITS to plan the logistics associated with the event. So...enjoy!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

You guys are the best. Guess this is why I have done all the HITS napa races, and am already signed up again for next year!

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Thank you, h2ofun! I'm doing my very best; thanks for noticing. See you in Napa, if not sooner!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

That's awesome. Mark, you're really setting the bar pretty high for customer service. Looking froward to 2 great races this summer. Adam

It's my pleasure, Adam; and, thanks for noticing! Train well.

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Hi Mark

Not disagreeing with you. I was infact stating that questions like the one posed are more likely to be considered by companies like HITS, Rev3, and many other small series, whether a single race or the local director who has a half dozen under their belts. I have seen a definite desires by those organizations to create an athlete-focused environment and experience, and more likely to accommodate those pesky issues that life throws at one. Haven't done a HITS race, and schedule wise don't see one in my future, but I would still love to see HITS grow and thrive as do I for the local races as well

Cool! Thanks for the support, Maui5150; MUCH appreciated. I hope you meet you someday soon!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Amazing! You make HITS enjoyable!

Thank you, Sir!

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Mark H. Wilson
Wilson Endurance Sports, LLC
Office: 914-466-9214
http://www.CoachMarkWilson.com

Hi Dave,

I am coming late into this discussion and will not try to persuade you to change your opinion about the events or organizers. Not because I agree with it but because I respect it. It's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

If the negative impression you have stems from a bad experience in one of the HITS events I can only hope you give them another chance and experience the satisfaction most of us in this forum seem to share.

But more to the point, I want to ask you a favor. Help us make HITS better by volunteering in one of their upcoming events.

You are correct in that HITS is a fledgling company when it comes to triathlons, so help build it. Help it achieve its potential. I don't doubt you have ideas on how they can improve as an organization. Let them hear you.

If you volunteer for HITS North Country (Hague, NY) I will shake your hand (I am volunteering).

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Marcelo Arruda

Great post. So many just complain but never help. My wife and I volunteer at more races than I race at, and I race a lot per year.

I will be racing, then helping with my wife at the Folsom Ca USAproductions races on Sunday. Come by and say hi.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Thank you for your optimism. In the case of HITS, it is a concern of logistics, organization, marketing, culture of triathlon, and year after year numbers. I have been in triathlon 14+ years now, and I consider that a respectable amount of time considering the popularity boom in triathlon didn't really hit until about 2005-2006. I have also volunteered at several races for several years as medical staff.
Logistics and organization: It is very difficult to be safe when you have that many races occurring in one weekend. I'm sure medical coverage is sparse at best. They might have a finish line tent, but nothing else at all from what I have seen and heard. The fact that they were planning to have a race in Northern MI in October tells me that not only have they not produced a needs analysis for the area, but that they were essentially just throwing out some "bait" and hoping lots of athletes would jump at the opportunity. October in Northern MI is not only way too cold for races of this distance, but MI is already so oversaturated with Tri's that an event like HITS would never survive.
Marketing: They marketed for races and then didn't deliver...bad form. Numbers show that HITS just isn't as popular as their marketing content might suggest. I am certainly not a mega-fan of IM like some people are, but if you can't draw numbers like IM does, you will not succeed with this type of event. My advice would have been to start small...like Rev3 did. Build up from a good foundation.
Culture of triathlon: this again speaks to how triathlon is spread way too thin especially in MI. Everyone thinks that you can make tons of money whether it be for charity or personal gain by hosting races. It really is not lucrative. In 1998, triathletes went to a race, competed, loved the challenge and the cameraderie, and enjoyed the ability to finish. I could write a book about how this has changed over the years. I love this sport with everything I have to offer, and I really don't want it becoming a mockery like 5k's have become. There are so many 5k's in the country it's rediculous.

Hi Dave,

If I am correct you are a triathlon coach in addition to being a triathlete. Being also in the medical field you are in a position to provide HITS with valuable input and feedback. Even if a single suggestion you make were to be implemented we all would profit from it. So I urge you to voice your suggestions to the HITS team.

As for how well they will fare... please take a look at this article from The Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/...tle-brews-1401750109. It IS an uphill battle. You can help push them down or help lift them. It's a personal choice.

Interestingly enough, the article mentions the Norseman Xtreme (http://www.nxtri.com/...0th_anniversary_film), which I hope you get to do someday (if you haven't already done it). It allows only 250 participants each year, of which half must be Norwegian. This boils down to only 100 slots given to non-Norwegian males. There is a lottery for the slots. Cost of the event ~$450. Caveat: You must have your own support crew. Difficulty of the event: 19,000ft of vertical gain on the bike leg (5 mountain passages), last 10 miles on the run is up a mountain.

I believe that many races will fade away. Others will prosper. A few will be elevated to "cult" status, like the Norseman. My guess is that HITS is here to stay.

PS: I am one of the very fortunate ones to have gotten a slot for the Norseman this year. I have been using HITS races in preparation for the event. Wish me luck!

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Marcelo Arruda