hell you dont need that

come to California, we'll give you a drivers license, free medical and education for your children, and even pay for your education, WE LOVE TO PAY TAXES HERE, OH WE LOVE IT SO MUCH !!!!!!!!!!

Please Gray, please Booz Crusta-monte ... oh please tax me some more.

$10 Billion more in taxes you need? Oh OK, who do I make the check out to?

Osama? Al Quada? No problem. Come on down. No ID? No problem.

Come one, come all, get your free California drivers license.

Buy a gun, take flying lessons, attend Grossmont college (San Diego) ... we welcome all terrorists, after all, this is the land of opportunity ... right?

[not directed at you Frenchy, just had to vent]

France has already paid for my education and now I apply it here...so at least that's one french doing the right thing for you :-)
I was hoping that with a PhD in Comp.sci. it wouldn't be a major pain in the butt to get a GC...
how wrong was I!

$ 12000??? Does that include a Colnago, Full campy with Zipp 909???

I believe my attorney charges $ 1500. That price may have been reduced because she had already done the work for my H1B visa, but in any case, $ 12000 sounds like incredibly expensive. Is that some kind of express procedure?

OK, despite the WAR thing and the bad ju-ju there, my 3 top French likes: Corima wheels, the Tour, and Camembert

I don't practice immigration law - but that sounds a tad bit high to me. Sure teh quote wasn't in Francs :)

Seriously, a friend of mine who is also a member in my tri club here who specializes in immigration. Let me see what she has to say. I'll let you know.

Alan

 

Francois,

$1200!!!

I spend $700 and did 99.9% of it myself. The only
thing this money was good for was forcing me to
deal with it (or it would have been a total waste).


Thierry

in Francs, that'd be quite cheap actually :-)

ok, so I got my answer. I did a quick search on the web and in most cases we get something like $4000
including labor certif and gc.

maybe I should ask if the $12,000 include free entry in any IM for the next 5 years...

Francois,

My green card costed about $6000 in legal fees, this is 7 years ago and was paid by my company. Took only 10 months to get it.

- Lionel

$4000 is nearer the mark but it depends on the case. I wouldn't think anymore than $6000 though.

Francois, you seriously need to consider California if this lame @$$ Bill becomes law on January 1, 2004. You may as well benefit from it. I'm all for you going about it all legally, but I'd like to see more people like you benefit from this insane, piece of (expletive) legislation.

BTW - illegals are already trying to get CDLs at DMVs throughout California. DMV says remember to study your CA drivers pamphlet as you WILL be tested. Yes, it's available in Spanish.

---

Sean

OK - here's the word from my friend Helena (and I consider her an expert). She says that she believes $12K is too high, although you may have unique facts or circumstances that she doesn't know about. She says her firm would charge around half of that or maybe around $7,000. She also mentioned that in addition to the l.c. and g.c. that you would need a temporary work authorization and that isn't included (although she points out that most employers pay for that). Hope that helps.

12g's seems pretty high. I'd say 3-5g's in attorney fees + INS filing fees might be a little more reasonable. Assuming there aren't any special circumstances. There is a pretty good book called "How To Get A Green Card" by Lewis & Madlansacay (see NOLO.com if you would like to purchase) Its no substitute for an immigration attorney but will help to explain the process.

julieanne needed permanent residency and i did it myself for $0. of course i'm a professional asshole, i job at which i excel. plus i'm charming when it suits my purposes, and neither of those abilities works unless you've got the other in your back pocket, ready to pull out at the right moment.

the killer app, in my case, was going through the INS liaison inside the office of my congressman. i don't know why this worked, that is, i don't know what about me made this person want to help me, but that's what it took.

not that there wasn't some hand-wringing, etc., and it took a year or two altogether, but it got done.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I haven't seen that book - but Nolo Press puts out great "how to" books for various legal matters (so good, as I recall, the State of Texas charged Nolo Press with causing the practicising law without a license by N.P.'s selling of its books!). So, I'd second that recommendation.

Thanks all for the tips...I don't see any reason why my case would be more expensive (apart that I am french :-) however, I can cook really good crepes and this should allow me to get a green card for free I believe!)
I am not sure whether I will try the DIY thing or get a lawyer. However with work interesting major us gov. org. I may be able to gt the right letters.
Generally US comp. pay for GC but not state universities.

I'll check KG's recommended book too...
of course as noone put it there, I do put a disclaimer here for all of you that none of this was legal advice and I cannot sue anyone here if I don't get it :-))

BTW, what's the deal with California?? what's that bill? not that I am planning to use it. I did follow the law in France, I'll do the same here (although I do not think non pasteurized milk cheeses are bad)

Hey Francois,

Perhaps the governments would allow a transfer....you to California, me to France.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

OK Cathy,

call George, I call Jacques :-)

although I am afraid that university prof. salaries may not be high enough for California!

The deal here in California with Senate Bill SB60 is that people who are here ILLEGALLY can get a California Drivers License by showing minimal personal documentation. It doesn't give anyone automatic citizenship, but it does give people who have broken the law by coming into this country illegally a benefit that used to be reserved for legal US citizens. Illegals had this benefit until '94, but was changed in '94.

One of the central issues is that when applying for the CA drivers license, applicants are offered the opportunity to register to vote (Motor Voter). It's illegal in CA to vote or register to vote unless you're a US citizen, but the CA Democratic Party has legitimized this in the hopes that the newly registered illegal immigrant drivers will register to vote, illegally, as a Democrat and vote, illegally, for the Democratic Party candidate in the future. With 3-4 million illegal aliens in California, that's a lot of new (illegal) voters for very little work.

You're probably asking how can the CA Registrar of Voters let these people vote? It's funny, but voter residency is checked via snail mail. With their new CA drivers license, these illegals can now rent, for cash, a mail box. Their still illegal, but they get to vote, illegally. Also, the CA Registrar of Voters CANNOT use CA DMV information to check if the newly registered voters are legal. Only if the snail-mailed post cards come back "Return to Sender, Address Unknown" will the illegally registered voters be removed. By then the election is over and the Democrats win the election...by 3-4 million illegal votes.

I'm biased as I'm against SB60 because it it legitimizes scofflaws, but get more info here from The Sacramento (CA) Bee at http://www.sacbee.com/...63502p-8307303c.html

---

Sean

Let me know if you want to get an estimate from my lawyer.

Someone wants to take you for a ride. It has been a very long time, but my wife got hers in '87 for about $600.

Not sure this is true.

A driving licence is neither a work permit nor proof of voting rights. A green card allows you to reside permanently and work but also does not allow voting.

To vote you must be a US citizen. If you have a green card you must be here 5 years before you can apply for citizenship and hence vote.

Furthermore, 90% of the illegals would have to get a federal tax id and/or show utility bills, thereby becoming 'official'. I can't see that happening in a hurry. None of the illegals I know have ever paid tax.

This from (SOURCE: Dr. Larry Sabato, University of Virginia Center for Governmental Studies, before the Senate Rules and Administration Committee, June 27, 2001)

You bring up a very interesting point. If the illegals need a tax ID to get a CDL and they get paid less than minumum wage for, say, picking vegetables in Salinas, CA, how will the employers be able continue to illegally pay less than a minimum wage to undocumented workers? Could the IRS and Bush led US Government have remained surprisingly silent on this issue that seems to be a colossal threat to US security because it will generate an incredible backlash against the Democratic Party once these newly licensed illegals and employers start to be prosecuted to pay State and Federal income taxes and/or back taxes?

I don't know how this will shake out, but I do know that it has made politics an interesting subject to me and many other Californians. If you're a Californian and this doesn't have you thinking, your either brain dead or incredibly busy with other worries (like my wife).

---

Sean

Francois,

With a PhD and a University Professorship you should be able to apply for a green card through the outstanding researcher category, sidestepping the labor certification part of the application altogether. This is a much more expeditious process (six months instead of a couple of years), so it should cost much less.

What intrigues me though in this discussion is Slowman's story about obtaining a green card for another individual: I was under the impression that someone needs to sponsor you for a green card (and show that no US citizen can do the same job that you can, etc.), so how can a friend simply apply for you? Was this a case of getting the right people to pull the right strings?

By the way, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm in a similar situation as you are Francois, although in my case the company pays the lawyers and I deal with them (and yes, I am in California, but, alas, I'm not here illegaly and I do not speak Spanish).

John

got mine in may last year.

We did the reduction in labor route which is supposedly faster, where prior to dealing with the INS you advertise the vacancy, do the department of labor cert, then as part of the reduction in paperwork send the whole lot off to the INS at once instead of the tooing and froing.

Now it depends what INS office you go through once you are at the I-485 stage but Nebraska is at 360 days, or it was when I went through there and some regions are at way more.

So regardless of how other stages of the process are handled the final processing stage today is over a year regardless of category.

I think our cost was over 5k but I didnt pay for it so I could not tell you.

I think with marriages I'd have been willing to figure it out myself as you are not looking for a substitute or an American that could do the job for you :) but in the case of a work related GC you need to be careful that you post the job in relevant places and show responses as to why they can not fill the role to the extent that it will satisfy the INS, to little and they will regret it and to many good responses and they will want to know why they are not qualified for the role.

The role of an attorney in a job related application is that they know the game and there are a lot of hurdles in work application, way more than a H-1 or L-1 visa and it takes forever.

If you want a run down on this drop me a line.

A

Just to second the advice from Slowman; my mothers green card renewal was "lost" during the government shutdown in the mid 90's. After a call to our state's senior senator his staff got the paperwork "found" and processed remarkably quickly.

Secondly, if I remember correctly you are a professor/lecturer/instructor at a university. Most universities have a person if not an office set up to get green cards for grad students profs etc., and IIRC there are different programs for academics, so I would find out if your university can take care of this for you.

sounds high. The company did it for me in the early 90's, when I checked around $3000-5000 seemed to be the going rate. Somewhat more for savage New York lawyers, which is what the company used. I think you should shop around some more.

Third the suggestion to contact your senator - a friend of mine did this even before they were citizens, and it expedited the whole process marvellously.

I became a citizen a week or two after the last presidential election, just too late to vote, not that one vote would have made a difference..

---

"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

"Don't let the bastards grind you down." (yes, I know it's fake Latin.)

John, Francois, et. al.,

I personally welcome you all to the United States and hope you have found what you came looking for. You all are what makes this nation so great. I hope that you all stay and become naturalized citizens. Then, I hope you register to vote. Vote in every election possible and let your representatives know how you feel. Many US citizens are apathetic and don't vote. These people shall inherit the earth.

It saddens me as an American and Californian that HONEST, good, hardworking people such as yourselves are forgotten in California in favor of pandering to people to promote racism in the name of fairness. Sacramento, CA has become Rome and it is starting to fall. Some of those in power think we should accept the invaders with open arms. Some in France thought the same thing about the Nazi's and in 1940, Germany showed it's appreciation with the Blitzkrieg. Has history tought these people nothing?

This citizen will die on my feet before living on my knees. Join me. I would be proud to have all LEGAL immigrants as Brothers and Sisters in Arms.

E Pluribus Unum (From Many, One)

---

Sean

Sean,

I'm with you on illegal immigration, but there is another aspect to the issue that I consider more crucial:

The couple of million illegal immigrants in California are not actually sitting idle; they do find work, which means that there is a (at least potential) social need for them. The question then is, who employs these people? Don't companies/entities have to check the legal documents of their prospective employees? Are these documents forged, or is this a case of the employers not checking/not caring? What do the local enforcement agencies do when they discover a company employing illegal immigrants? Are the principals prosecuted? Is their business license revoked? Or do they just get a slap on the wrist and carry on?

For that matter, how do enforcement agencies react when they apprehend an illegal alien? Do they notify the appropriate agency to have them deported, or do they just shrug and let it pass?

What I am trying to say is that it seems to me that there is a widespread and pervasive tolerance of illegal immigrants at all levels: from private citizens (do you check the legal status of the labourer you employ to mow your lawn?), to local, regional, and state agencies. And until the attitude of the people change, I don't see anything significant happening on this front.

John

I'm a labor and employment attorney and I also practice business based immigration. If you have an H1-B visa here are the rules: I also send another post on what if you don't have an H1-b visa

There are 3 steps to obtaining permanent residency through Employer Sponsored Labor Certification for employees who are on H1-B status.



The first step is to apply for Labor Certification with the Department of Labor. To obtain an approved Labor Certification, the employer must prove (mainly through newspaper advertising) that they were unsuccessful in recruiting enough qualified workers for a certain position.

There are 2 types of labor certifications. The employer may apply through Regular Labor Certification, or Reduction in Recruitment Labor Certification. Prior to the current economic slowdown, we used reduction in recruitment. It is a shorter process and requires less intervention and interaction with the Department of Labor.



Regular Labor Certification processing involves filing certain forms with the DOL and waiting for advertising instructions from the Department of Labor. The DOL will tell us how to advertise, collect resumes for us and send us people who meet the minimum qualifications for the position. Processing time for Regular Labor Certification varies between 1 to 3 years.



Reduction in Recruitment Labor Certification is where the employer shows the DOL that they have already UNSUCCESSFULLY attempted to recruit U.S. workers for the position. The DOL likes to see a consistent pattern of recruiting for the 6 months prior to filing. Newspaper advertising is the strongest form of evidence. Internet postings, job fairs, headhunters, etc., provide good supporting evidence. Processing time for Reduction in Recruitment Labor Certification varies between 3 to 8 months.



Step 2: Once the employer has received an approved Labor Certification, they may apply to the INS with the Form I-140, Immigrant Petition For Alien Worker. Processing time for the I-140 is 3 to 8 months.



Step 3: Once the employer has received an approved I-140 petition, the next step is for the foreign national to apply for Adjustment of Status. After the foreign national applies for Adjustment of Status, he or she (and the spouse and children) will receive work authorization and advance parole (re-entry permit after foreign travel) within 90 days. He or she will then have an interview for the Green Card in 6-36 months.

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_______________________

For immigrant visas, the following are the most common employment based visas. There is the EB-1, which covers international managers and executives, outstanding professors and researchers, and people of extraordinary ability. There is EB-2, which is available to aliens of exceptional ability and advanced degree professional. There is also EB-3, which is available to people with a bachelor's degree, skilled workers, and unskilled workers. The EB-1 category does not require a labor certification, all the others require a labor certification.

For non employment based immigrant visas such as through family, your family member must be a US citizen or a permanent resident. They must have a certain income level. There is a preference system, with 1st preferance being given to unmarried sons and daughters of US citizens. To obtain permanent residency going this route takes a long, long time.

You might also try the diversity lottery. I've know some people (one of our french employees) who was successful. http://www.bcis.gov/...s/howdoi/divlott.htm

Good luck and 12,000 is a little on the high side!

---

_______________________

thanks a lot. I'll go EB-1. I meet 5 of 6 criteria and only 2 are needed.

as for the $12,000...yes I had gathered it was a bit off!

John,

You bring up a very good point. The 'social need' aspect has been used as an argument to justify SB60, the CDL law that allows illegals in CA to get a license. The statement is "who will do the work if the Mexicans don't?" the answer is "Someone, no one or a machine."

My point earlier in this thread is that the people who employ these illegals claim that they NEED to do this to stay in business and so that a head of lettuce doesn't cost $5.00. They don't have/need to check any paperwork or ID because they don't have any worries of retribution from any party. The illegals need the job, so they stay quiet. The Government allows it to continue for various reasons, but it comes down to money and power. And the public are to blame as well for not demanding that these people be legitimate and treated as would want to be treated and be willing to spend more for this. I can only guess, but perhaps the illegals create a log jam in the law enforcement/jusicial process so much that they are overlooked if they don't cause any trouble. The principals are not prosecuted or their license revoked because they provide the service of inexpensive, quality food.

Unless an illegal has broken any laws, they are not actively sought out by local law enforcement. The only time this becomes an issue is when wealthy or political people get 'busted' hiring illegals.

I agree that the tolerance has created part of the problem. As a private citizen, I mow my own lawn and don't hire handypeople. I agree that "until the attitude of the people change, I don't see anything significant happening on this front" as well. But I'm trying to get Californians in my circle to understand that. Once people get pissed enough, they'll spend a little more for food and services if it doesn't require them to pay more taxes to provide social services to illegals or allow the continuation of fiscal irresponsilbility by politicians. Maybe some will even give up eating so many salads.

---

Sean

I'd be curious to know how many could be legal immigrant (meaning they would have skills needed here) but just forget about being legal in front of the
heavy paperwork and the fees (not that it is any easier in France btw...)

Fr.

PS anyone has a green card to sell? Would exchange it against a pair of racing wheels :-)

I AM an immigration attorney, and that sounds very high. My fee for an employment-based permanent residence case is $4,000, plus expenses (recruitment/immigration fees) which will run another $2,000 or so.

You can contact me at romy@kapoorlaw.com if you want to talk further. No charge for an initial consultation.

Romy Kapoor

The outstanding professor/category is not as simple as that. 2 out of the 6 standards is just the objective part of it. The more difficult part is the subjective part in which you must demonstrate that you have an "international reputation as being outstanding in the field". This comes from supporting letters from others in the field, both inside and outside of the U.S., who will speak very highly of you and your abilities and confirm that you have such an international reputation.

If you are in a teaching position, and were hired pursuant to a competitive selection process within the past 18 months, you can also look at the "special handling" labor certification process. This is extremely expedited through the State Department of Labor office as well as the US DOL.

By the way, there is nothing that prevents you from trying more than one of these routes to immigration. Many people will do the labor certification as well as the outstanding professor/category.

If your work is more research oriented, there is also a National Interest Waiver category where the labor certification requirement can be waived if the work you are doing is having a significant impact on some area of national interest.

Any way, there are a number of options potentially available to you.

Romy Kapoor

romy@kapoorlaw.com

http://www.kapoorlaw.com

An employer is only allowed to ask for certain documentation when they employ you. On one list is things like Soc Sec and another the GC although I can not remember which is on what list.

I worked for 2 companies where the employee's produced the correct documentation in spite of the company knowing that the employee's were at best questionable and more than likely illegal.

They employed them, submitted info on the soc sec payments at year end to find that 25% of the employees SS numbers were not recognized. Oh what a surprise.

Now the DOJ would go after the employers if they thought that they were a large enough employer of illegals but I dont somehow think that 12 employee's would count in this day and age.

It is no defence on the lawyers part that the docs were forged to my understanding but their hands are somewhat tied as to finding out if they are.

The company had employees that were arrested and deported and came back in the time I was there but nothing ever happened or was done about it.

As to the GC app. I did reduction in recruitment. For approximately 9 months we advertised the post in local, regional and national papers and publications as well as on line. Collected and submitted the paperwork, then the I-140 which I think was over a year and then the adjustment of status was again close to a year with a 7 month wait for the actual GC to arrive. Adjustment of status was approved in June last year, received the GC in Feb this year.