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Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM?
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Has Rappstar commented on Lance's entry into IM? I'd love to hear his and other ST pro opinions. Not necessarily on how Lance will perform but on the impact his participation in IM will have on the sport in general and the pros in particular. Will this increase sponsorship revenue, attract pros from other sports, affect race strategies, bring other manufacturers (i.e Nike) into tri-related gear, TV coverage, etc?


Thanks.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting viewpoint...marketing.

I bet there will be a M-dot Livestrong band that sells for $5. Obviously the standard yellow band with a red m-dot painted on.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Bogusdogs] [ In reply to ]
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Bogusdogs wrote:
Interesting viewpoint...marketing.

I bet there will be a M-dot Livestrong band that sells for $5. Obviously the standard yellow band with a red m-dot painted on.

That's just Gold. Gold I tell you!
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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He is going to Kona whether he qualifies or not. If anyone is going to get an invitation to compete there, it will be him.

Yes, it will bring a lot more exposure to the sport whether for better or worse.That will increase demand for all equipment and manufacturers who are smart enough to take advantage of it. He'll bring Nike with him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Nike makes tri suits and tri tops and bottoms already, although no surprise, they are not very popular. The tops and bottoms separately are $85, the same price as any "tri brand" kits anywhere else. Their tri suits go for around $140.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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sdmike wrote:
Bogusdogs wrote:
Interesting viewpoint...marketing.

I bet there will be a M-dot Livestrong band that sells for $5. Obviously the standard yellow band with a red m-dot painted on.


That's just Gold. Gold I tell you!

give me 2 please...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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To those of you that say he would get invited to Kona no matter what, what if he does all of the races on his list and bombs in them all. A few DNFs, blows up on the run and finishes way down in the standings, no solid results etc. Would he still get an invite?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Zenmaster28 wrote:
. . . what if he does all of the races on his list and bombs in them all.

Impossible.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Seriously? For the amount of exposure he is bringing not to mention the fact that LIVESTRONG is now officially connected with Ironman, he wouldn't even need to do a single race and still would be invited. Would be dumb not too.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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NBC would still want him there, I imagine. Get ready for 50 minutes of slow motion LA footage this November!

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Rapp is going to get LANCED soon...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [camaleon] [ In reply to ]
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The real questions is, what's the point? To say he's raced Kona? My feeling is Lance wouldn't dare toe the line if he thought he'd get embarrassed. Look at his body of work as an athlete. There is no reason to doubt his ability to qualify just like everyone else
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Lance is... [ In reply to ]
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...the Boss.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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I'd definitely rock a Livestring Tri-suit if they were available. The one Lance is wearing is pretty sweet.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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WTC - IM just gave in to greed & LA just bought his way into IM Panama and several other IM events, entry fee - $1 million - now his doping stigma will come to IM triathlon...what happens if USADA nabs LA before Kona?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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I think that Rappstar's view of Lance in Ironman will be from behind! BWAHAHAHAHA...

Just messing with you, Rapp...
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [vimbike] [ In reply to ]
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vimbike wrote:
WTC - IM just gave in to greed . . . .

Greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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It would also be nice to hear Dan's opinion.

I'm excited about it, I think it is good for triathlon (and very good for the WTC).
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [SavageHouck] [ In reply to ]
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... that deserves its own thread though
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Does it really matter what Rappstar or Dan think about Lance Armstrong? You have a guy that is internationally know and who has won the TDF 7 freakin times and you care what Rappstar thinks.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [summitt] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I'd love to hear from Chris Lieto, Craig Alexander, Chrissie Wellington, Chris McCormick, Mark Allen, Dave Scott and a host of others but none seem to post on ST as frequently as Ironman Champion Jordan Rapp. What say we start with whom we have access/a shot at getting some thoughts from? I'm sure Dan and Jordan will weigh in on this at some time.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [summitt] [ In reply to ]
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summitt wrote:
Does it really matter what Rappstar or Dan think about Lance Armstrong? You have a guy that is internationally know and who has won the TDF 7 freakin times and you care what Rappstar thinks.

Does it matter what a smart pro triathlete thinks about someone like Lance coming into his sport? Yeah, I would like to hear his perspective. His perspective (as well as Dans) is always very interesting and usually makes me think. It's a unique opportunity and would love to hear their take on it.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [M~] [ In reply to ]
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Weird, no one really was interested in what Lance thought about Dirk Bockel's alignment with the Leopard Trek team. Then again, he's not racing the Tour.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Bogusdogs] [ In reply to ]
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Bogusdogs wrote:
Weird, no one really was interested in what Lance thought about Dirk Bockel's alignment with the Leopard Trek team. Then again, he's not racing the Tour.

If I had access to Lance, like I do with Dan and Rapp, I would have asked him.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Well no one asked for my opinion, but that has never stopped me before..

Here are the facts( Monty facts) This is the biggest thing to hit our sport since Julie Moss crawled across the line at hawaii, and we got into the olympics. Lance does not have to qualify for hawaii, but he will try and most likely get the points he needs to get into the pro race. It is a big deal for his foundation to have this partnership with Ironman, and it is great for them to have Lance. He was not free, and now is the highest paid pro triathlete of all time with that one deal.

He has gotten his swim to where he can swim with any lead group. Sure on a one on one, Potts would drop him, but he drops everyone. Likely he will swim 50 to 51 minutes at hawaii, or whatever that lead group behind Potts swims. THis means that in every race he attempts, he will be onto the bike "WITH" the leaders, and it does not take a rocket scientist to know what happens next. He either rides with the uber bikers in our sport, or goes out alone as the latest member of that elite group. Pity the fool that swims 2nd pack and tries to catch up to him..He should be 1st to 3rd into t-2 about 100% of the time, unless of course he crashes(exterra).

His run is the big question now, not if he can run well, but if he can run well after racing hard for a few hours. I believe he has potential to run sub 1;20 in a 1/2, which may or may not hold on for the win. Many 70.3's are won by 2nd tier pros, and those he can beat. The Ralerts, Macca's, Crowie's, Pott's and such, are going to be a different story. It is possible to put 5 minutes into T2 on these guys, but then how do you deal with their 1;11 run splits?? Answer is you don't, he is not going to become the best pro triathlete in the world, just a very good one, and especially at 40 years old..

I was talking to dan the other day, and i proposed that in hawaii it would be a great stragedy for lance to just go off the front..Now this has not been a great help to most who have tried it, but every once in awhile it works..But there is a hitch here that no one has thought about, and that is the peleton of media that is going to glom onto Lance. It will look like the 89 ironwar times 10. There will be a camera on that guy for most the race, and the scramble for everyone to get their shots is going to be like an Egyptian soccer game. And there is nothing WTC can/will do about it, because it is what everyone wants and needs for their show and race. The suck of that armada will be worth 10 minutes, and my advice to anyone around at that critical moment, is you better go with it. Otherwise you will be doing your 10 meter dance behind Faris the entire day without so much as an iphone watching you.

So if you give lance 10 free minutes to go along with the ones he can actually earn, now many pros in the podium hunt could be in trouble. It could also backfire, but it is there for the taking, so why not go for it. I believe with a comfortable ride(with a little push early), he can run 3;05 to 3;10. If history is any indicator, that puts him in the money..
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Some folks have chimed in:

“Lance's involvement at perhaps the toughest one-day event in all of sport sheds light on what surviving cancer can mean to millions around the world,” said Scott Tinley, two-time Ironman World Champion and Ironman Hall of Fame Inductee. “I remember Lance as a determined kid who channeled that competitive spirit into an amazing career as a cyclist, survivor and advocate for survivors of a horrible disease. A partnership between LIVESTRONG and Ironman will further improve the lives of people affected by cancer. People need to realize that Lance’s foundation represents the use of sport to improve our world. There are only positive things that can come from having Lance join the Ironman family.”

"It is exciting to see Lance Armstrong, one of the greatest-ever endurance athletes, coming back to race triathlons in 2012," said Craig Alexander, three-time Ironman World Champion and two-time Ironman 70.3 World Champion.


“Lance is an exceptional athlete; he’s the type of person who wants to excel and be the best at whatever he puts his mind to,” said Chris Lieto, multiple Ironman and Ironman 70.3 champion. “I’m excited to see how his participation in our sport will draw attention to what it takes to be a triathlete and how challenging it can be. It will definitely bring triathlon more into the mainstream and I know pro athletes, including myself, will look forward to racing with him at future events.”
Originally from: http://ironman.com/...-affec#ixzz1lvMaW2g9


triDVM wrote:
Well, I'd love to hear from Chris Lieto, Craig Alexander, Chrissie Wellington, Chris McCormick, Mark Allen, Dave Scott and a host of others but none seem to post on ST as frequently as Ironman Champion Jordan Rapp. What say we start with whom we have access/a shot at getting some thoughts from? I'm sure Dan and Jordan will weigh in on this at some time.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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"...The suck of that armada will be worth 10 minutes, and my advice to anyone around at that critical moment, is you better go with it. Otherwise you will be doing your 10 meter dance behind Faris the entire day without so much as an iphone watching you. "


Thanks Monty....best analysis yet!!!
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [CSU_Prof] [ In reply to ]
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Notice Lieto is no longer talking smack on LA like he was last year at the Texas 70.3 pro forum.... Come to Texas and talk smack on LA? Better get ready to go sub 2hrs on that bike split Chris....
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [good4nuthin] [ In reply to ]
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good4nuthin wrote:
Notice Lieto is no longer talking smack on LA like he was last year at the Texas 70.3 pro forum.... Come to Texas and talk smack on LA? Better get ready to go sub 2hrs on that bike split Chris....

Actually this is THE BEST THING that ever happened to Lieto.

Look at Monty's analysis. He does not talk about the group 10m behind Lieto following nothing but an iPhone...Lieto will be in the Lance Vortex group. He may be the only other guy in the Lance group. Lance is Lieto's biggest ally now. Crowie and crew should be worried.

Sorry if I did not read the other 10,000 Lance posts on ST as I have not been on here much in the last 3 days and if this was already mentioned 9999 times.

Dev
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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John Howard is his race strategist.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Sasquatch] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe 30 years later we'll have a repeat of the John Howard miracle bike split (was it 4:28 with no aero doo dads other than the biggest aero doo dad you could get outside of your bike?)
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
good4nuthin wrote:
Notice Lieto is no longer talking smack on LA like he was last year at the Texas 70.3 pro forum.... Come to Texas and talk smack on LA? Better get ready to go sub 2hrs on that bike split Chris....


Actually this is THE BEST THING that ever happened to Lieto.

Look at Monty's analysis. He does not talk about the group 10m behind Lieto following nothing but an iPhone...Lieto will be in the Lance Vortex group. He may be the only other guy in the Lance group. Lance is Lieto's biggest ally now. Crowie and crew should be worried.

Sorry if I did not read the other 10,000 Lance posts on ST as I have not been on here much in the last 3 days and if this was already mentioned 9999 times.

Dev
True, but that "bike domination" ego from which he has built his career has to feel the challenge coming....no one would want to be demoted to the second best cyclist in triathlon...

I personally cannot wait to see them come by on the way back... I think that was by far (TX 70.3) Lieto's best race last year.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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"I was talking to dan the other day, and i proposed that in hawaii it would be a great stragedy for lance to just go off the front..Now this has not been a great help to most who have tried it, but every once in awhile it works.."

Great analysis Monty! I mean just think of the value to Trek, Oakley, Giro ,etc of all that camera time on Lance as he breaks from the field on the bike. Go for a bike split record? Unbelieveable PR move.


--------------------------------------------------------
John Behme
Charlotte, NC
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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What happens if with all this excitement on this site about Lance..."IF" USADA continues its case and finds Lance did dope or other things implied in NPR"s report of a lot of evidence.? ..Will evryone jump off the bandwagon? Will it matter? If Lance is implicated officially will the Tri Pro's not want him around? . Think this would be a legitamate concern since wada and usada are continuing an investigation.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [jbnc77] [ In reply to ]
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will Panama 70.3 be online streaming or available anywhere else online?

http://www.ironmanglib.com
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [tri dpt] [ In reply to ]
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Every pro triathlete is thanking their lucky stars and calling their financial planner now that Armstrong is racing triathlon. It doesn't matter if he wins or not, as long as he is competitive the money will be flowing into the sport.

The easy money would be for Armstrong to consistently have the fastest bike splits. He won 7 Tours. His ego won't allow him to not finish on top on the bike. He may blow himself up for the run but if he sets a blistering pace, that pressure is also being applied to his competitors.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Sasquatch] [ In reply to ]
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1) Great For the sport, the sport will explode 10 fold
2) suck to be a pro, the Cameras will all be on Lance, so no chance for the pro's to promote their sponsors,
3) it will bring drug and a dark cloud on our sport,
4) Michael Phelp will pace Lance in the water, Alberto Salazar will be the run pacers,
5) NBC 2 hour show will be about Lance Life before and after cancer, 10 minutes about IM,
6) Zack, and Hellrigell make a come back, Contador is there nutritionist.

and the world will end after IM Hawaii when the volcano explode, based on the Mayan calendar
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [jbnc77] [ In reply to ]
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Great analysis Monty! I mean just think of the value to Trek, Oakley, Giro ,etc of all that camera time on Lance as he breaks from the field on the bike. Go for a bike split record? Unbelieveable PR move. //

Lance is not going to do anything just as a PR move, at least not on the race course. However if his race plan just happens to be the same thing, then why the hell not. He is a very competitive guy and is not going to race just to be 1st to T2 and then blow. IT may be what happens, pretty much has happened to every pro that has ever raced at one time or another, but make no mistake, he will race to have his best race..I just pointed out that it may be in his best interest to hammer the 1st 20 of the bike, so as to make sure any 2nd pack swimmers do not glom on, and thus he takes his photog armada out of their reach. Everyone talks about Leito going with, but his biggest challenge will be to swim with Lance. Barring that, he pulls the peleton once again, taking turns with Faris now and then. THat is what i would advise him to do, then once clear you can settle in for your normal pace, He is quite used to speed changes in a race situation, and this should not hinder him too much.

The only wild card i see with this stragedy is how does he handle the heat for a long triathlon? He does pretty good in bike races, but once you start running, i don't believe it is the same thing. Only doing hawaii tells you about that too, a long history of great triathletes found that out the hard way..
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [CSU_Prof] [ In reply to ]
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I find this thread amusing as where are on page 2 and yet no "Rappstar's viewpoint"
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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He is out working on his swim so that he can hang with the lead group in hawaii..(-;
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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he won 7 tours with 8 others guy's pulling him, 99% of the time, yes he is a great cyclist, but can he time trial 112 miles, then run a 2:45 marathon, at the age of 40+ only Dave scott can answer that question
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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he won 7 tours with 8 others guy's pulling him, 99% of the time,//

First of all no one is pulling anyone, they are breaking wind. And it was not 8 other guys, but 188 other guys..And everyone sits on for most of the race, but for that 1% of the time they don't, no one was faster than Lance, that is why he won. Go to the ITT's or the finish of the mountain top climbs, that is where the tough guys earn their pay. Do you think doing the tour is easy because of drafting?? Winning it 7 times even easier??
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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yes he is a great cyclist

People forget, or weren't born yet, that back in the day LA was a world class triathlete. Granted, the "world" was a bit smaller then in terms of tri, but he raced with and was capable of beating Allen/Scott/Tinley/Molina/Pigg at the shorter distances at the age of 16 and 17...

How will he do now? Probably very damn well, thank you. In spite of all of the allegations and accusations surrounding him, one has to admit he has one huge aerobic engine. Monty's analysis of what an Armstrong IM might look like is very much spot on...we know he can swim, and yes he can bike...he's also a decent enough runner, but the question will be decent enough to win, or at least compete admirably, against today's best?

Not too sure I would be the farm against him, however...

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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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i never said riding was easy, i never said Lance wasn't the best, relax it is just a forum, that you manage, don't want people opinion dont have the forum
112 miles at IM is not the same has been in the Peloton, and you don't have to run after,
yes i have ridden around France, including all the TDF stages, solo, i also crossed Asia solo with 40 pounds of luggage on my MTB, and yes i have done ironman including Hawaii

please explain the difference between Pulling Drafting and Breaking wind
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is disappointing. Lance could have had his own Half and Long Course races without WTC. IMHO he was the only one that could have made this happen and it would have allowed the costs to maybe level off for this sport. But now the cost will continue to go up. Shameful.....he sold out.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
"...The suck of that armada will be worth 10 minutes, and my advice to anyone around at that critical moment, is you better go with it. Otherwise you will be doing your 10 meter dance behind Faris the entire day without so much as an iphone watching you. "


Thanks Monty....best analysis yet!!!

______

sorry, I'm still with MACCA; if Chrissie was racing, he's chicked.

@rhyspencer
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
"...The suck of that armada will be worth 10 minutes, and my advice to anyone around at that critical moment, is you better go with it. Otherwise you will be doing your 10 meter dance behind Faris the entire day without so much as an iphone watching you. "


Thanks Monty....best analysis yet!!!

______

sorry, I'm still with MACCA; if Chrissie was racing, he's chicked.[/quote


Holy crap. What if LA paid Chrissie a ton of $ and THAT'S why she's not racing!!!!!!!!

_________________________________________________

Rather than look back and say "why?", look forward and say "why not?!"
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
he won 7 tours with 8 others guy's pulling him, 99% of the time,//

no one was faster than Lance, that is why he won.

No, doping is why he won, the same reason all of the other top finishers won and are now on the way down. Assuming USADA drops a drug suspension on him, I hope WTC complies.

For the sake of argument he doesnt get a ban, when I talked to Crowie about this topic at CES he already knew Lance was coming, or at least was 99% convinced because Lance's team had reached out to Crowie's for advice. Crowie didn't give him any, but it did seem like while he was talking up what Lance would do for the sport, he really didn't seem particularly thrilled to race him. I mean, who wants another top level competitor to steal you spotlight, and potentially take money out of your pocket?

Oh, and I don't think this means more money for the pro's I think it means less, unless they can beat Lance. Everyone behind Lance is going to be an also ran for sponsorships for the next couple years. They should all be glad he's back at 40 instead of coming back when he first thought about it right after retiring from biking. I think he does 2 maybe 3 years max at pro and then Comeback 3.0 is done.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [camaleon] [ In reply to ]
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camaleon wrote:
Rapp is going to get LANCED soon...

Or is Lance going to get---

Nevermind. Not gonna finish that one.


#cureMS
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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'No, doping is why he won, the same reason all of the other top finishers won and are now on the way down.'

So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
The red mist in your eyes sure does make you write some rubbish.
We get it, you don't like him. And you obviously know stuff all about cycling.



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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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How would Jordan's opinion be of any value at all? All of the questions you would like opinions on are complete no-brainers. Yes it will increase sponsorship (temporarily.) No it won't attract pros from other sports (did he attract them to cycling before?) It won't affect race strategy at all, just might make the train at the front slightly faster. Yes, it will drag the Lance associated manufacturer's. It won't greatly affect TV coverage but will increase news coverage. All pretty straight forward for anyone capable of forming an opinion themselves.


The only point where Rapp could possibly make a contribution is with regards to potential performance but as the only place where Lance is racing that anyone really cares about is Kona and Jordan runs scared from the place even that's of limited value. On second thoughts, the other IM is France which generally has a weak field and I reckon he has a fair bit of experience there so perhaps I'm wrong with my initial assessment.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Sasquatch] [ In reply to ]
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Sasquatch wrote:
John Howard is his race strategist.
I doubt former Australian Prime Minister John Howard has too much to offer LA in regards to race strategy :-)

Crowie may be a little worried, but Pete Jacobs has the most to lose IMO.
Solid results the last couple of years at Kona, but still no big name sponsorship or profile.

Feel sorry for the guy. He is a class act in every sense of the word, and great guy to boot.
Hopefully everyone else will be running scared of LA while PJ runs his own race as usual and does really well.

Oh and LA is crap for the sport locally (in Oz) IMO.
All the local races sell out fast enough as it is, I dont want them to sell out any faster! :-)
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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njc wrote:
'No, doping is why he won, the same reason all of the other top finishers won and are now on the way down.'

So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
The red mist in your eyes sure does make you write some rubbish.
We get it, you don't like him. And you obviously know stuff all about cycling.



I believe he did the last two tours during the last cycling comeback clean. Maybe Im still wanting to be a bit naive but I do believe he's a good enough cyclist that at top form he could podium in a cleaner era even at advanced age (for a pro cyclist). According to his teammates, and again not just the ones who are "disgraced", Lance was doped for all of his tours. He didnt dope during the tour on a couple of occasions due to enhanced testing and big doping crackdowns, but he was still doping in all prep leading up to the race. Theres enough testimony to take away at least 5 of the tour wins. Its not rubbish, look at everyone else on the podium with him during those races. Nearly all have either admitted doping or been caught, banned or retired before being banned. His teammates who doped with and for him say he wasnt clean eaither, and they were there.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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To..:So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
Who knows, but there is tons of evidence that he did. You kind of lose the "he might of been innocent some" when you meet with Ferrari in a van on the side of the road in the mountains. Hey, if you think the evidence out there does not add up, fine, thats your opinion, but there is plenty of testimonial and curcumstantial evidence.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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So what if then, just possibly, he ends up turning in a winning performance in a 70.3 or full IM, will you insist he is doping still?
Even if he passes every test ever thrown at him?
Sounds like the guy is never going to convince some people, which is fair enough, that he can race clean. Its your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

But seriously, what does he need to do to make people say he may have just deserved to win?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
To..:So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
Who knows, but there is tons of evidence that he did. You kind of lose the "he might of been innocent some" when you meet with Ferrari in a van on the side of the road in the mountains. Hey, if you think the evidence out there does not add up, fine, thats your opinion, but there is plenty of testimonial and curcumstantial evidence.

Every race .... seriously ?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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njc wrote:
Kenney wrote:
To..:So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
Who knows, but there is tons of evidence that he did. You kind of lose the "he might of been innocent some" when you meet with Ferrari in a van on the side of the road in the mountains. Hey, if you think the evidence out there does not add up, fine, thats your opinion, but there is plenty of testimonial and curcumstantial evidence.


Every race .... seriously ?

Think about what every race entails. Sure, he probably didnt dope when he first started, just like every other doper. I bet the first season or two were clean. Then, he gets on the dope to work his way up through the peloton, then he gets cancer. Are the two things related? A lot of doctors have theorized maybe. Anyways, he focused his season around the Tour, so even if he didnt dope in a couple of smaller races where the risk wasnt worth it, he was certainly doping in tour prep and whenever he could get away with it during the tour.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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Ah,, you cannot read.........I said "who knows". You can reread my post. Thats what happens when you are suspected. Which ones did he which ones did he not? There is a lot of evidence that he did in some......But, not found guilty yet by a court. ..Do I believe he did.....yes.....which race, which training day, I do not know. My bet is training build ups for the TdF. Some stages TdF, probably..Using a doped team for the TdF, certainly......Worlds in 93, I don't know. Many others I do not know.
Which races would you ward Marion Jones for racing clean? All or just some did she dope? She never tested positive.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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techknowgn wrote:
njc wrote:
Kenney wrote:
To..:So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
Who knows, but there is tons of evidence that he did. You kind of lose the "he might of been innocent some" when you meet with Ferrari in a van on the side of the road in the mountains. Hey, if you think the evidence out there does not add up, fine, thats your opinion, but there is plenty of testimonial and curcumstantial evidence.


Every race .... seriously ?


Think about what every race entails. Sure, he probably didnt dope when he first started, just like every other doper. I bet the first season or two were clean. Then, he gets on the dope to work his way up through the peloton, then he gets cancer. Are the two things related? A lot of doctors have theorized maybe. Anyways, he focused his season around the Tour, so even if he didnt dope in a couple of smaller races where the risk wasnt worth it, he was certainly doping in tour prep and whenever he could get away with it during the tour.

So now his doping caused his cancer !!!
Well if you start believing that then there is very little point in discussing it with you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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Even if he passes every test ever thrown at him?

______________

My only issue with this reasoning, is that there are many guys in cycling (and other sports as well) that passed every test, yet they either were implicated in a doping scandel or admitted to doping. But, on the other hand, that's really the only defense one has to saying/implying that one is clean. I mean, if the test says your clean, you are in fact clean by the governing body (unless you get caught up in a scandel).

So I think IF everything is on the up and up, and you have clean tests, I would absolutely be fine with standing behind that validation. In the context of cycling, it doenst hold as much weight as it should. Which is sad, but I think a very true assessment, would you agree?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Ah,, you cannot read.........I said "who knows". You can reread my post. Thats what happens when you are suspected. Which ones did he which ones did he not? There is a lot of evidence that he did in some......But, not found guilty yet by a court. ..Do I believe he did.....yes.....which race, which training day, I do not know. My bet is training build ups for the TdF. Some stages TdF, probably..Using a doped team for the TdF, certainly......Worlds in 93, I don't know. Many others I do not know.
Which races would you ward Marion Jones for racing clean? All or just some did she dope? She never tested positive.

Actually I have excellent reading skills.
You of course know he would have been tested, regularly, in training as well as racing?
So now you say there is ‘evidence’ he was doped in some. But not all?
So I guess that means he might just have won the odd TDF clean?
Maybe?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
Even if he passes every test ever thrown at him?

______________

My only issue with this reasoning, is that there are many guys in cycling (and other sports as well) that passed every test, yet they either were implicated in a doping scandel or admitted to doping. But, on the other hand, that's really the only defense one has to saying/implying that one is clean. I mean, if the test says your clean, you are in fact clean by the governing body (unless you get caught up in a scandel).

So I think IF everything is on the up and up, and you have clean tests, I would absolutely be fine with standing behind that validation. In the context of cycling, it doenst hold as much weight as it should. Which is sad, but I think a very true assessment, would you agree?

A bunch of the other ones got past every test and only got caught through admission or doing something stupid like meeting with Ferrari or other doping doctors regularly after they were being investigated. Lance still had Ferrari on his payroll like 2 years ago saying it was for "Ferraris son to make intervals up for him", when he had a ton of other coaches who could do that. Lance was buying silence pure and simple. Lance got away with it because he's Lance, he alternates between intimidation and influence to get through things that others cant.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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njc wrote:
So now his doping caused his cancer !!!
Well if you start believing that then there is very little point in discussing it with you.

Im no doctor, but it can cause illnesses temporary and long term. No one really knows for sure everything it does to the body long term. Look at the folks who use HGH, compare Barry Bonds head size to 10 or 12 years ago. Its insane what the side effects are. I dont know if it caused the cancer or not.

To you other point, not doping during the race isnt riding clean. The real advantage of doping is doing it during training and in the days leading up to the race. And even during the "clean races" teammates testified he may have gotten transfusions they didnt witness because the equipment was still present.

Finally, multiple teammates have testified that he knew when the tests were coming so he could avoid them, or at least delay them enough to avoid detection when tested.

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
Even if he passes every test ever thrown at him?

______________

My only issue with this reasoning, is that there are many guys in cycling (and other sports as well) that passed every test, yet they either were implicated in a doping scandel or admitted to doping. But, on the other hand, that's really the only defense one has to saying/implying that one is clean. I mean, if the test says your clean, you are in fact clean by the governing body (unless you get caught up in a scandel).

So I think IF everything is on the up and up, and you have clean tests, I would absolutely be fine with standing behind that validation. In the context of cycling, it doenst hold as much weight as it should. Which is sad, but I think a very true assessment, would you agree?


Quite correct.

And the point here is that the sport he is now in is triathlon, not cycling per se.
So different testing regimes, different governing bodies.
Some will say he just manipulated the cycling ones, who knows, I don’t really care.

But if he starts testing negative in all his tri’s from now on, and actually wins, the same detractors will simply have to assume he is still cheating
And still somehow fooling the system. And that is really what this discussion should be about. Plenty of guys on here will just go round in circles going on about past ‘evidence’, and past ‘proof’. They believe it, fair enough.

But they will just have to assume every future victory is also tainted. Which in turns taints the sport itself. And I find that quite sad to be honest
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I did write that Marion Jones never tested positive.. I did not say there was evidence he was clean in some........Please let me be clearer. I believe your reading skills are as good as you say. You must not comprehend. ......There is plenty of circumstantial evidence and testimonial evidence he doped. He has not been convicted.....When he doped, I do not know. All, maybe. Some, sure. Which ones, I do not know. Might of won the TdF clean.......Why would someone who doped to win, stop? I do not know. But thats what happens when you are not credible.......Remember his rivals who we now know doped, never tested positive and he did not beat them, He crushed them. His times rival possibly the best climber of all time who was doped to the gills. ......and did not test positive and was only kicked out of a race do to high hemocrit(sp?). ......Asof now, no court has convicted Mr. Armstrong. ........I do hope WADA and USADA have the ability to let the truth out of what was found in the investigation.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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techknowgn wrote:
njc wrote:

So now his doping caused his cancer !!!
Well if you start believing that then there is very little point in discussing it with you.


Im no doctor, but it can cause illnesses temporary and long term. No one really knows for sure everything it does to the body long term. Look at the folks who use HGH, compare Barry Bonds head size to 10 or 12 years ago. Its insane what the side effects are. I dont know if it caused the cancer or not.

To you other point, not doping during the race isnt riding clean. The real advantage of doping is doing it during training and in the days leading up to the race. And even during the "clean races" teammates testified he may have gotten transfusions they didnt witness because the equipment was still present.

Finally, multiple teammates have testified that he knew when the tests were coming so he could avoid them, or at least delay them enough to avoid detection when tested.

Again, you know riders get tested very frequently during training?
And I wouldn't suggest doping in training and riding 'clean' is winning clean, it simply isn't. It is still cheating.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Well, I did write that Marion Jones never tested positive.. I did not say there was evidence he was clean in some........Please let me be clearer. I believe your reading skills are as good as you say. You must not comprehend. ......There is plenty of circumstantial evidence and testimonial evidence he doped. He has not been convicted.....When he doped, I do not know. All, maybe. Some, sure. Which ones, I do not know. Might of won the TdF clean.......Why would someone who doped to win, stop? I do not know. But thats what happens when you are not credible.......Remember his rivals who we now know doped, never tested positive and he did not beat them, He crushed them. His times rival possibly the best climber of all time who was doped to the gills. ......and did not test positive and was only kicked out of a race do to high hemocrit(sp?). ......Asof now, no court has convicted Mr. Armstrong. ........I do hope WADA and USADA have the ability to let the truth out of what was found in the investigation.


Ah I see, I do not comprehend now.

Note to self, go back to school and learn to understand what I am reading.

Even if it doesn’t actually make much sense.

I’m sure all the ‘truth’ that those bodies posses will one day come out, assuming there is something to come out. And if it doesn’t, well obviously the dastardly Armstrong got to them first.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it's a new sport. I think the only issue is, what happens if the USADA rules against Lance? Which I think, at that point, the question becomes, does WTC/triathlon community still want him to be the "face" of triathlon?

Now in fairness to Lance, the truth is out there and so far, he's "clean". Several organizations have in way one or the other tried to bust Lance, and have come up short. Or he is atleast clean enough to slip through prosecution, which makes him clean. So until he actually faces some type of actual sanctions, we basically should just enjoy the tidal wave ride that Lance is going to create.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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njc wrote:

Again, you know riders get tested very frequently during training?
And I wouldn't suggest doping in training and riding 'clean' is winning clean, it simply isn't. It is still cheating.

Yes, and he knew when those tests were coming, so say members of his own team, and in one case where he allegedly tested positive, teammates say he was able to buy his way out of it.

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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My comment on comprehension was due to you finding some logic that I said he did not dope some so could of won clean. I did not say that.
To.:And if it doesn’t, well obviously the dastardly Armstrong got to them first.
If it does not, I will not know why the evidence now in some hands does not come out. Maybe legal reasons beyond my understanding.......Your comment thatit is sad for tri's that if people transfer their past views to him now....................I agree. ................Thats life. .....Anyone, not Lance, but anyone that is accused, sadly, rightly or wrongly, it follows them. That is why with all these comments from NPR and the WSJ and cyclingnews ect....that talk about all this evidence, that it all comes out. That way it is clearer.................Sadly in the same way you imply that someone like me will always pick on Lance, many will say will believe him no matter what comes out.
If the same amount of evidence that is already out there was brought against Contrador or Ullrich, they decisions would of been before this week. Criminy, they had Ullrich's dna and that just got decided this week
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate you asking my opinion, though it seems there was no shortage of other folks that filled the void in my absence.

While I think there are certainly some positives about Lance returning in a serious way to triathlon, I don't think that it's really encouraging that he announces his return to triathlon almost immediately after he gets let off the hook by the US Attorney's Office, especially when you have Travis Tygart, the USADA president, basically saying that he's committed to a continuing a thorough investigation. I can't think of any other athlete where you could have a recently cleared federal indictment and the shadow of USADA hanging over his head and still have everyone glad-handing each other about him racing.

Now, I don't mean that as a judgement on whether or not Lance is guilty or not, whether he doped or not, etc. I just think it's a bit sad that USADA saying they want to investigate someone doesn't seem to give anyone pause. Now, by the same token, I don't expect that Lance - or anyone else - should have to twiddle their thumbs while USADA investigates, and Lance hasn't been convicted of anything. But nevertheless, I do think it's a bit odd for WTC - which is committed to supporting the WADA (and by extension, USADA) - doesn't seem to be troubled by the ongoing USADA investigation.

In a more relevant example, everyone on this forum was ready to skewer Michael Weiss and to have him kicked out of the sport for good - in many cases even before the verdict ultimately went against him, yet Weiss also has never failed a doping test, and ultimately it came down to a lot of - as far as I know - circumstantial evidence plus testimony from other athletes. There seems to me to be quite a lot of circumstantial evidence and testimony from former teammates in the case of Lance, but everyone is over the moon that he's racing. I guess that's what I find confusing. Weiss is a cheat and a scumbag in people's eyes - seemingly universally - yet Lance returning to race, with a similar type of investigation that loomed over Weiss's head for much of his career, is somehow the best thing to happen to the sport? I have some trouble with that double standard, especially given the timing of both the US Attorney's office announcement and Lance's/WTC's announcement.

I think the answer to whether or not race strategy will be affected is something that you'll see over the course of the season. I don't imagine that anyone is going to assume they can give Lance a 20min lead off the bike, but I also don't think people are going to feel they need to go with him - except maybe Lieto. I would say if he runs well in Panama, that'll change. I'm sure that folks will be watching, but - as Lieto himself has shown - it's a very different game running 13.1 after 56 than running 26.2 after 112. I think it'll be most interesting to see how he does in France, especially if Frederick Van Lierde defends his title, since FVL will offer a pretty good benchmark - I think - of performance.

Generally speaking, I don't think Lance will do for triathlon what he did for cycling, simply because I don't think that he'll do *in* triathlon what he did in cycling. I don't expect him to be the first man to notch seven Kona victories. But I do think he'll bring more media, more attention, more money, and more of just about everything into triathlon. Is that a good thing? I dunno. I'm sure it'll be a mixed blessing. There are some downsides to being a niche sport. But there are also some pluses. I suppose it's all just evolution. The sport is both better and also worse off now than it was 10 years ago, and was better/worse off then than 10 years prior to that. There was something truly special and magical about a handful of crazy folks getting together on Oahu to do something they didn't have any idea if they could, stopping at convenience stores, etc. Reminds me of the old pictures of the TdF with the guys carrying spare tubulars strapped over their backs and smoking cigarettes. Is what we have now better? In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. Of course, if triathlon was still just a lunatic fringe, I wouldn't be able to make my living doing it, so I'm thankful that it's evolved into something where I can have a real career. But I'm also a bit sad that I never got to experience its wild and crazy early days. And maybe I'll end up saying to future pros, "you should have seen the sport before Lance got involved..." the way that Monty and Andrew McNaughton and Huddle and Frey and the other old skool folks talk about the sport back in the 80s and 90s.

Lance will likely bring change. That seems inevitable. Some of it will probably be good. Some of it probably will not be good. That's just the way of the world. Whether or not that change will affect me in any meaningful way? Who knows. I won't lose any sleep over it until I have a legitimate proof that I should be losing sleep over it.

Until something proves otherwise, my world is largely unchanged from what it was a day ago. Maybe now a few more people that I sit next to on planes will know what a triathlon is. But I've still got a job I love and that I'm lucky to do and thankful for every day. Lance deciding to race hasn't changed anything about that in the least. And I don't think what happens with him on the race course, whether it's a race I'm a part of or not, will change that either. And I actually don't think what happens with him off the race course will change it too much either. Lance brought a lot of change to cycling because he became a celebrity through cycling. He's coming to triathlon as a celebrity. I think with cycling he demonstrated that pro athletes were important and valuable. I don't think that he'll do the same thing with triathlon; I think he's showing - in triathlon - that Lance is valuable. I don't expect to see any sort of "trickle down" from the "Lance effect." I expect that Lance will get richer, that WTC will get richer, and that - best case - the companies involved in the sport will sell more product and that overall the sport will grow and, as the saying goes, that a rising tide will lift all boats. But I don't think that Lance really has much in common with me or with any other triathlon pro. He's massive. He's an industry unto himself. He dwarfs Macca, and Macca dwarfs pretty much all of the rest of us. So, because of that, I really don't see Lance having an impact on other pros. Lance is a business way more than he's an athlete. Lance getting involved is more like K-Swiss or TYR getting involved, except I don't expect Lance to sponsor athletes (though Team Livestrong may eventually sponsor some other pros).

Ultimately, I'll follow the race in Panama just like everyone else will. What happens after that, your guess is as good as mine...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
But I don't think that Lance really has much in common with me or with any other triathlon pro. He's massive. He's an industry unto himself. He dwarfs Macca, and Macca dwarfs pretty much all of the rest of us. So, because of that, I really don't see Lance having an impact on other pros. Lance is a business way more than he's an athlete.

An interesting take.

LAF hasn't funded cancer research in years (according to Outside Magazine http://www.outsideonline.com/...b-Rats.html?page=all). Is he inspiring? Maybe. But the cancer patients I see every day need more than motivation, and I know Lance didn't beat cancer on determination alone. The cancer research boat is not one that rises along with the incoming Livestrong tide.

I hope this means good things for the sport and for fitness in general.

-----------------------
My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [njc] [ In reply to ]
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njc wrote:
Kenney wrote:
To..:So, every victory, in every race, he was doped up?
Who knows, but there is tons of evidence that he did. You kind of lose the "he might of been innocent some" when you meet with Ferrari in a van on the side of the road in the mountains. Hey, if you think the evidence out there does not add up, fine, thats your opinion, but there is plenty of testimonial and curcumstantial evidence.


Every race .... seriously ?

Yeah mate, some bad news, Lance EPOstrong is a fraud.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Cake] [ In reply to ]
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I love it when people like you refer to Lance like that based solely on what you've read BY people who have been caught cheating. You call Lance a fraud, but totally support the testimony of proven and admitted frauds. They are credible frauds because they got caught, right?? Genius!!
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you, Jordan, for your thoughts. Best of luck this season.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar,

One topic I missed in your message (even it was not the original question): do you think Lance will have any impact on the business you're part of (Slowtwitch): more traffic, ad sales, partnerships, etc?

Another thing was your view on why many of your readers have (as you write) a double standard regarding Lance and Weiss.

You point it out, and you say you have trouble with that, so you must wonder why many people don't. Ignorance? Lack of a sense of fairness?

I ask because I'm always curious about why people do the things they do (especially if they seem incoherent), and you must know the community here pretty well.

The Lance discussion, of which I'm an avid reader, reminds me of an old quote by Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The young man knows the rules but the old man knows the exceptions".

Thanks!

Nuno
Last edited by: nhluz: Feb 10, 12 4:20
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [ian moone] [ In reply to ]
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ian moone wrote:
i never said riding was easy, i never said Lance wasn't the best, relax it is just a forum, that you manage, don't want people opinion dont have the forum
112 miles at IM is not the same has been in the Peloton, and you don't have to run after,
yes i have ridden around France, including all the TDF stages, solo, i also crossed Asia solo with 40 pounds of luggage on my MTB, and yes i have done ironman including Hawaii

please explain the difference between Pulling Drafting and Breaking wind

Am I really the only one who thought this was funny?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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lol - I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. I giggled like a 5th grader!

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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triDVM wrote:
Has Rappstar commented on Lance's entry into IM? I'd love to hear his and other ST pro opinions. Not necessarily on how Lance will perform but on the impact his participation in IM will have on the sport in general and the pros in particular. Will this increase sponsorship revenue, attract pros from other sports, affect race strategies, bring other manufacturers (i.e Nike) into tri-related gear, TV coverage, etc?


Thanks.

Wait, that mofo has EPO in his tires?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with Jordan...you asked for his opinion and it spiralled pretty typically before he chimed in! I was waiting to hear what Jordan had to say before posting...

- On Race Strategy: I think it is a question that can't be answered yet. Monty put it pretty well. Lance swims better than Chris Lieto for example. The dynamic at the front 'may' change as Monty said with media, etc. I was surprised at how quickly one pro...with top notch equipment and position...rode in Kona on a seemingly low watts, but he was near Crowie and the media. Clearly he brings to the game a good swim, a great bike, and a pretty dang good run. I don't think that his 1:22 whatever is representative of what he's capable of running. Kona showed that a lot of guys who simply rode too hard and either finished well off what they 'thought' they would or DNF'd. So, I think that the answer to your race strategy question is that it will be shown as we go...Panama, then 70.3 Texas, the Nice.

- On Sponsorship: I've been thinking more about this lately...not in regards to Lance and his involvement though. Lance has, over the years, assembled a very good team and they have build the Lance/Livestrong brand to be huge. He has a whole team with him. Most pros are lucky to have a couple of allies on the sponsorship front. But anyone who pays attention to Lance (or Macca) can see how much they move around and travel. They can see how much they work with sponsors and how professional they treat this aspect of their job. Maybe that came 'after' they made it big. But, in regards to sponsorship, he puts in a LOT of work even with the fact that he also has a lot of people helping him put in that work. At this point, he has to since there is so much of it. So, having said that I think that his involvement will bring more visibility to the sport and possibly more opportunities for some pros. Personally, having been in the sport since 89, I hear more people mention triathlon now than ever...even JohnDoe off the street. Now more will likely hear of an mention triathlon. For those pros at the front or around Lance, getting their sponsors out there will be 'easier'. But, that still only reaches the triathlon community to some degree. I think that where Lance could help a shift is in the non-endemic (as we say) sponsors. I don't know how many pros that may affect or which ones if might affect, but it might help some. The question is to whether or not some of us will put in the work needed to land those sponsors or if somehow these companies will be a bit more interested in sponsoring pros. There are a lot of what-ifs. Could Lance's re-entry into triathlon help with sponsors...absolutely. How many and which pros will help...i have no idea. I do know that they way Lance approaches all things sport related appears to be very professional. And, that is something that a lot of us pros could learn from.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [summitt] [ In reply to ]
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summitt wrote:
Does it really matter what Rappstar or Dan think about Lance Armstrong? You have a guy that is internationally know and who has won the TDF 7 freakin times and you care what Rappstar thinks.


Well one is a respected athlete of good standing who by all accounts is a personable, pleasant guy and the other is Armstrong.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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I laughed, too. The thought of 188 people all farting at the same time was just too much. Sorry -- I'm still stuck in the 6th grade.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Until something proves otherwise, my world is largely unchanged from what it was a day ago. Maybe now a few more people that I sit next to on planes will know what a triathlon is. But I've still got a job I love and that I'm lucky to do and thankful for every day. Lance deciding to race hasn't changed anything about that in the least. And I don't think what happens with him on the race course, whether it's a race I'm a part of or not, will change that either. And I actually don't think what happens with him off the race course will change it too much either. Lance brought a lot of change to cycling because he became a celebrity through cycling. He's coming to triathlon as a celebrity. I think with cycling he demonstrated that pro athletes were important and valuable. I don't think that he'll do the same thing with triathlon; I think he's showing - in triathlon - that Lance is valuable. I don't expect to see any sort of "trickle down" from the "Lance effect." I expect that Lance will get richer, that WTC will get richer, and that - best case - the companies involved in the sport will sell more product and that overall the sport will grow and, as the saying goes, that a rising tide will lift all boats. But I don't think that Lance really has much in common with me or with any other triathlon pro. He's massive. He's an industry unto himself. He dwarfs Macca, and Macca dwarfs pretty much all of the rest of us. So, because of that, I really don't see Lance having an impact on other pros. Lance is a business way more than he's an athlete. Lance getting involved is more like K-Swiss or TYR getting involved, except I don't expect Lance to sponsor athletes (though Team Livestrong may eventually sponsor some other pros).

Ultimately, I'll follow the race in Panama just like everyone else will. What happens after that, your guess is as good as mine...

Ive gotten flack for being one saying Lance/WTC shouldnt be doing this, for a myriad of reasons, chief of which you mentioned in your post so I wont belabor. I never weighed in on Weiss here publicly, but I think the reason you see a double standard is the pure celebrity of Lance. As you said, Lance is his own industry, and a ton of people here are supporters of that industry. WTC sees this as a way to grow their business, and so I'm sure they have safeguards in place, that whatever deal they have with Lance is probably null and void if he gets banned. But they figure he's worth the risk, because they can say "Hey, he got suspended but it was for stuff from long before he got to us".

I guess my question is at least in the short term, is do you think people you meet on planes will now instead of asking "Did you race the race they show on TV?" to "Did you race Lance?" and how do you feel about that?

As for the business side, I think you're spot on. He doesn't share very many primary sponsors with the sport itself, he has his own package and so it's not as if he's going to bring direct benefit to the pros around him. Now, if a given pro beats him, then yes, that probably raises their status a bit, and could help whoever does it, especially if they run him down after a bike lead. There will certainly be a benefit to WTCs brand in short term, and I think any races he does and gives enough notice for people to attend will see big booms in attendance and additional business, which will be good for the races and the towns, but as you said there are likely going to be negatives with those positives.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I think the double standard might be people's views of the two sports. In cycling, many assume that doping is the norm, and his conduct (true or not) was similar to other cyclists.

I think in the same way many of us view clean as the norm in our sport of triathlon. The assumption is that, regardless of his past, Lance is going to race triathlon clean.

I think some of the animosity towards Weiss may come from people thinking (true or not) he raced triathlons doped.

To sum it up, sort of a "whatever, as long as you don't bring that crap to our sport" view.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan,

Thanks for the response. One of the best posts I've read on ST in a long time. You don't get many shades of gray in discussions about LA.

From my point of view as an long-time AGer, I was an Ironman triathlete during LA's cycling reign. I remember when nearly every triathlete I met wore a yellow bracelet. I remember triathletes gathered around TVs in Lake Placid watching LA in the tour. I remember lots of LA related bikes and gear at triathlons. I think LA's success in cycling caused the tide to rise in triathlon as well. I'm cautious in predicting that his jump into IM triathlon will cause the triathlon tide to rise much more. Of course, those of us who are doing triathlons now think it is a huge deal, at least this season, but I don't know how much more serious interest it is going to generate from the general public or sponsors who aren't already involved in triathlon.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Feb 10, 12 8:07
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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I can't wait to see Lance dominate and shut down the critics.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not much of a LA fan and really wish he did direct money to research, but of course the research boat rises. Lots of patients, friends and relatives will donate money to all sorts of cancer charities because of the awareness he brings, and more directly he has lobbied in congress for more research funds.

As far as Pros not being impacted (to Rapp), look at Tiger, pro purses and sponsership deals went way way up due to his publicity. If nothing else precedent has been set. Now just like Track and a lot of other sports Triathletes can get appearance fees to show up at a race. I'm sure thats happened to a minor degree in the past, but LA puts it on a whole new level, it'll take some time to trickle down, but if Tri gets more TV time and AD buys it'll happen.

Styrrell
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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styrrell wrote:
LA puts it on a whole new level, it'll take some time to trickle down, but if Tri gets more TV time and AD buys it'll happen.
Thats the question I guess: can this be the step that puts triathlon on TV more and take the next step in revenue? With Tiger and golf it was different because the tourneys were already on TV. Easy to invest in a known quantity thats growing. Triathlon on TV is an unknown quantity for the most part and how will it play live, even with Lance in it? Honestly, if he qualifies, I wont be the least bit surprised to see NBC Sports Network run the whole day live.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan, based on what you know of WTC, do you think it is inside the realm of possibility that LA's presence will bring in more serious prize purses for big races and for Kona?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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He wont have the same success in tri but look what he did for Cycling. The Lance Chronicles were basically a cable reality show about his bike fitting.

Styrrell
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [nhluz] [ In reply to ]
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nhluz wrote:
Rappstar,

One topic I missed in your message (even it was not the original question): do you think Lance will have any impact on the business you're part of (Slowtwitch): more traffic, ad sales, partnerships, etc?

Another thing was your view on why many of your readers have (as you write) a double standard regarding Lance and Weiss.

You point it out, and you say you have trouble with that, so you must wonder why many people don't. Ignorance? Lack of a sense of fairness?

I ask because I'm always curious about why people do the things they do (especially if they seem incoherent), and you must know the community here pretty well.

The Lance discussion, of which I'm an avid reader, reminds me of an old quote by Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The young man knows the rules but the old man knows the exceptions".

Thanks!

Nuno

I'm sure Lance will have a positive impact on Slowtwitch as a business. That video of Lance training in Kona a while back is the highest viewed article on our site, ever. Like 50,000+ page views.

And I expect that exclusive articles, like Dan's interview with Lance regarding his bike fit, will also garner a lot of views. That's the sort of thing that (I think) you are only likely to read here, because Dan and Lance have a long history. And, ultimately, I expect Lance will bring more people into the triathlon community, and as a community driven site, I am sure that will also benefit Slowtwitch.

As far as the black-and-white nature of people's views, I think there are a lot of factors, but I think it generally comes down to first impressions. The drama of Lance's comeback precedes the doping issue. In Michael's case, the doping issue preceded his success in triathlon. I think people are biased towards their first impressions, which is supported by a lot of the research on brain function; a good read in Michael Shermer's "The Believing Brain." Basically, we - humans - believe something and *then* seek evidence to support it, which of course runs counter to how most people would say they think or want to believe they think. Applying that to this scenario is obviously just my attempt at amateur psychology, but I think Lance became known as a hero, so people look for evidence to support that, despite evidence to the contrary. And, in Michael's case, I think he came in with the cloud/suspicion of doping, so people - some people - thought of him as a doper and jumped on that evidence. I think that sort of all-or-nothing bias is natural. Danny Kahneman's great book, "Thinking, Fast and Slow" talks about how people group things that aren't necessarily related together. Something that is seen as positive is also generally seen as low risk, and something that is a negative is also seen as high risk. And a change in perception of one will usually swing the other. In other words, Lance can't have doped because he beat cancer and does great work for charity. Or, on the flipside, his charity work is all a sham and a media stunt because he's a doper. It's very hard for our brains to reconcile the fact that he might do incredible work for charity (a good thing) and also have taken drugs (a bad thing). But human nature isn't really like that. At least, not in my experience. Bernie Maddoff was, by all accounts, incredibly faithful to his wife. But he scammed people out of billions. That sort of thing, I think, makes people uncomfortable. People would prefer that he was *all* bad. And, in the case of Lance, I think people want to assume that he's all good. It just makes it easier.

That's my own take on it, based off the thoughts of some people will infinitely more experience and insight into this sort of thing than I have.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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techknowgn wrote:
I guess my question is at least in the short term, is do you think people you meet on planes will now instead of asking "Did you race the race they show on TV?" to "Did you race Lance?" and how do you feel about that?

Well, maybe now the jabs on this forum will be split 50/50 between, "Jordan is afraid to race Kona," and "Jordan is afraid to race Lance." So that variety should be a nice change... Wink

In all seriousness, given that at least this year, our schedules don't overlap, I'd just say, "I haven't yet done a race that Lance has also done. There are a lot of races, and we've just never been at the same race." My priority is supporting my family, supporting my sponsors, and doing the best job that I can as an athlete at the races I decide to do. If, at some point, that necessitates my racing Lance, I'll do it. But I have no interest in doing it for the sake of doing it, just as I have no interest in doing Kona for the sake of doing it. My life will not be more complete as a result of racing Lance...

Oh, and as a random aside to reply to an earlier post in this thread, Lance actually did make a brief but positive comment on Twitter about Dirk Bockel joining Leopard-Trek.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [%FTP] [ In reply to ]
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%FTP wrote:
Jordan, based on what you know of WTC, do you think it is inside the realm of possibility that LA's presence will bring in more serious prize purses for big races and for Kona?

I don't think so. I just don't see that it's really relevant. The story is "Lance is racing triathlon," not "Lance is racing triathlon and trying to win big bucks." Especially coming from cycling, where prize money is almost irrelevant, I doubt Lance cares much about prize money. And, in that sense, I agree with Brandon's sentiments that pro athletes could learn a lot from Lance. There is a lot more (potential) money to be made off the race course - and in sponsorship - than there is in prize money.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

And you're right, Slowtwitch had by far the best - most sport specific and relevant - editorial coverage of this story, through Dan Empfield's articles.

I too am a big fan of Kahneman - I also find his TED talks brilliant (and a good starting point). His reasoning definitely makes sense in this case.

Nuno
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I do want to say, hand it to the guy he is going about this all the right way. Tying LiveStrong to it, qualifying etc...there is no Lance Wild card (YET).

This said, curious what all of ST will think if/when Lance falls backwards down the fold during back half of run at IM-France.

Couple of items to remember here:

First, he's 41 this year. While a genetic freak and mentally probably the toughest SOB in endurance sport, but with age comes factors needing consideration
Second, he has injuries. Plantar Fascititis is not child's play. Serious, debilitating stuff it can be. Also, apparently his back is at issue after so many miles hunched over (look at him on a bike)
Third, there is SERIOUS talent in the pro Ironman ranks. Seriously talented athletes who run 2:40 (Jacobs, Crowie, etc.)

Last, too bad Chrissie ain't racing-:)

For sure, in the end, if anything just like his riding days this sure is going to be fun to watch!!

@rhyspencer
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
techknowgn wrote:

I guess my question is at least in the short term, is do you think people you meet on planes will now instead of asking "Did you race the race they show on TV?" to "Did you race Lance?" and how do you feel about that?


Well, maybe now the jabs on this forum will be split 50/50 between, "Jordan is afraid to race Kona," and "Jordan is afraid to race Lance." So that variety should be a nice change... Wink

In all seriousness, given that at least this year, our schedules don't overlap, I'd just say, "I haven't yet done a race that Lance has also done. There are a lot of races, and we've just never been at the same race." My priority is supporting my family, supporting my sponsors, and doing the best job that I can as an athlete at the races I decide to do. If, at some point, that necessitates my racing Lance, I'll do it. But I have no interest in doing it for the sake of doing it, just as I have no interest in doing Kona for the sake of doing it. My life will not be more complete as a result of racing Lance...

Oh, and as a random aside to reply to an earlier post in this thread, Lance actually did make a brief but positive comment on Twitter about Dirk Bockel joining Leopard-Trek.

so now is: Jordan is afraid to race Lance in Kona...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Ryon wrote:

LAF hasn't funded cancer research in years (according to Outside Magazine http://www.outsideonline.com/...b-Rats.html?page=all). Is he inspiring? Maybe. But the cancer patients I see every day need more than motivation, and I know Lance didn't beat cancer on determination alone.


I hope the implication here is that the only dollars that matter are the ones that go directly toward funding cancer research.

I can tell you - first person - that the research, med, and protocol side of it is surely one large facet of dealing with cancer. But don't bring the argument to ST doorstep that in the absence of granting pure direct research dollars that Livestrong doesn't do good. I can think of a ton of other things Livestrong brings - and that my family has used.

Not the least of which Lance's high-profile advocacy itself probably makes the direct research dollars boat rise, too. There was a flood of new funding at the one cancer center I know directly around the same time Livestrong was at it's hyped best, and Lance was winning tours. I can't point at it and say Livestrong was the causal, but I can't say it wasn't one of many. It sure as hell doesn't hurt.

ETA: didn't mean to drag the post off topic. I'm glad that Lance is doing Tris, and in IM. I think it's fantastic, and that there will be doors that open for many pros, AGers, races, RD's, and industry folk that no one can imagine yet, and will become apparent over time. As Jordan pointed out, Lance is on a different planet economically. At a time when tri as a niche sport doesn't welcome a titan that has the chance to take the entire tri landscape up a notch - I'm not sure why it isn't a good thing.

ETA2: I'd bet that retailers, coaching, and gear manufacturers are expecting some kind of bump. He just brings that many more eyes, and some percentage of them will spend money. It can't hurt, IMO. I'd love to hear coaches, retailers, and manufacturers chime in.



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- I do all my own stunts
Last edited by: Rick in the D: Feb 10, 12 10:55
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
techknowgn wrote:

I guess my question is at least in the short term, is do you think people you meet on planes will now instead of asking "Did you race the race they show on TV?" to "Did you race Lance?" and how do you feel about that?


Well, maybe now the jabs on this forum will be split 50/50 between, "Jordan is afraid to race Kona," and "Jordan is afraid to race Lance." So that variety should be a nice change... Wink

In all seriousness, given that at least this year, our schedules don't overlap, I'd just say, "I haven't yet done a race that Lance has also done. There are a lot of races, and we've just never been at the same race." My priority is supporting my family, supporting my sponsors, and doing the best job that I can as an athlete at the races I decide to do. If, at some point, that necessitates my racing Lance, I'll do it. But I have no interest in doing it for the sake of doing it, just as I have no interest in doing Kona for the sake of doing it. My life will not be more complete as a result of racing Lance...

Oh, and as a random aside to reply to an earlier post in this thread, Lance actually did make a brief but positive comment on Twitter about Dirk Bockel joining Leopard-Trek.

I don't have much to add to this thread as pretty well everything has been said.

However, if nothing else, I'd love to see you race Kona AND I believe you are selling yourself short.

I understand the economics of doing Kona and all of that. But you of anyone also know how our lives can change in an instant. You are strong and fit and probably have enough potential impact that your presence (working with some others) can change the outcome of Kona.

It would be great to see you out at/near the front of the pro race at Kona (maybe you are waiting to get your swim faster???). I also believe with how lean you are, the physics of heat dissipation work in your favour for the Kona run course.

GO DO IT!!! Maybe the rest of us need to put heat on your sponsors so they put heat in you to race Kona!!! Nothing like gaining some experience for when you want to be podium contender!

Dev
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
techknowgn wrote:

I guess my question is at least in the short term, is do you think people you meet on planes will now instead of asking "Did you race the race they show on TV?" to "Did you race Lance?" and how do you feel about that?


Well, maybe now the jabs on this forum will be split 50/50 between, "Jordan is afraid to race Kona," and "Jordan is afraid to race Lance." So that variety should be a nice change... Wink

In all seriousness, given that at least this year, our schedules don't overlap, I'd just say, "I haven't yet done a race that Lance has also done. There are a lot of races, and we've just never been at the same race." My priority is supporting my family, supporting my sponsors, and doing the best job that I can as an athlete at the races I decide to do. If, at some point, that necessitates my racing Lance, I'll do it. But I have no interest in doing it for the sake of doing it, just as I have no interest in doing Kona for the sake of doing it. My life will not be more complete as a result of racing Lance...

Oh, and as a random aside to reply to an earlier post in this thread, Lance actually did make a brief but positive comment on Twitter about Dirk Bockel joining Leopard-Trek.

I would think he'll be looking for a mid season IM to get one out of the way before Kona, so you never know. And I don't currently know because you don't have your 2012 schedule updated on your blog. ;)

As for racing Lance, whatever he is athletically, he's going to be a measuring stick for some outside the sport if he is competitive. I'm glad you don't see it as a yardstick for yourself that you have to measure against.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [techknowgn] [ In reply to ]
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The best part about Lance joining IM is the number of slight used Trek Speed Concept bikes that will be for sale in a few years as the wanna-be's, inspired by his racing live on NBC, realize the dust collecting carbon weight they never ride any more in their spare bedroom is taking up to much space. ;)


If you're not going to win the race, at least make the other guy break the record.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rick in the D] [ In reply to ]
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Rick in the D wrote:
Ryon wrote:

LAF hasn't funded cancer research in years (according to Outside Magazine http://www.outsideonline.com/...b-Rats.html?page=all). Is he inspiring? Maybe. But the cancer patients I see every day need more than motivation, and I know Lance didn't beat cancer on determination alone.


I hope the implication here is that the only dollars that matter are the ones that go directly toward funding cancer research.

I can tell you - first person - that the research, med, and protocol side of it is surely one large facet of dealing with cancer. But don't bring the argument to ST doorstep that in the absence of granting pure direct research dollars that Livestrong doesn't do good. I can think of a ton of other things Livestrong brings - and that my family has used.

Not the least of which Lance's high-profile advocacy itself probably makes the direct research dollars boat rise, too. There was a flood of new funding at the one cancer center I know directly around the same time Livestrong was at it's hyped best, and Lance was winning tours. I can't point at it and say Livestrong was the causal, but I can't say it wasn't one of many. It sure as hell doesn't hurt.

ETA: didn't mean to drag the post off topic. I'm glad that Lance is doing Tris, and in IM. I think it's fantastic, and that there will be doors that open for many pros, AGers, races, RD's, and industry folk that no one can imagine yet, and will become apparent over time. As Jordan pointed out, Lance is on a different planet economically. At a time when tri as a niche sport doesn't welcome a titan that has the chance to take the entire tri landscape up a notch - I'm not sure why it isn't a good thing.

ETA2: I'd bet that retailers, coaching, and gear manufacturers are expecting some kind of bump. He just brings that many more eyes, and some percentage of them will spend money. It can't hurt, IMO. I'd love to hear coaches, retailers, and manufacturers chime in.

Was it "Ever" about funding cancer research? I was always under the impression that LiveStrong was about cancer awareness.
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Rick in the D] [ In reply to ]
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Rick in the D wrote:

I hope the implication here is that the only dollars that matter are the ones that go directly toward funding cancer research.


I was not. I hope I did not come across that way. But for some reason everyone I talk to seems to think that LAF is a major financier of cancer research. They are not. The Outside Magazine article does, however present Doug Ullman's argument that their foundation would merely present a drop in the bucket next to the research dollars from the National Institutes of Health.

Rick in the D wrote:

I can tell you - first person - that the research, med, and protocol side of it is surely one large facet of dealing with cancer. But don't bring the argument to ST doorstep that in the absence of granting pure direct research dollars that Livestrong doesn't do good. I can think of a ton of other things Livestrong brings - and that my family has used.


Please, there is no need to create a rhetorical false dichotomy. There might be positive impact from LAF in other areas, but direct research impact has not been one of them.

Rick in the D wrote:

Not the least of which Lance's high-profile advocacy itself probably makes the direct research dollars boat rise, too. There was a flood of new funding at the one cancer center I know directly around the same time Livestrong was at it's hyped best, and Lance was winning tours. I can't point at it and say Livestrong was the causal, but I can't say it wasn't one of many. It sure as hell doesn't hurt.


You said it yourself, without established causation, you cannot give LAF credit.

I agree with you that the Lance factor might bring publicity to the sport and get more people into swimming, running, and cycling. I cannot argue against that. But I do not want people to think that any of $$ from Ironman will get pumped directly into cancer research.

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My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Ryon wrote:
.....

I agree with you that the Lance factor might bring publicity to the sport and get more people into swimming, running, and cycling. I cannot argue against that. But I do not want people to think that any of $$ from Ironman will get pumped directly into cancer research.

Agreed, all points. The interesting thing is that the chatter (well, the thread title took it there) is all about Lance, and what he'll do for the sport.

I think this is almost as much, if not more, about the WTC. Over the last few years, they've kinda pissed everyone off and been the bull in the China shop. Investing a mullion bucks in a charity? Sounds like buying a bit of goodwill, with an upside.

----> conjecture hat on ---> And the upside could be that WTC is starting to get their investor exit strategy in place. I don't think a WTC sale or IPO would have been feasible without some big-time partners - no goodwill, not scalable. With Lance as a partner, they may be another partner or two away from being scalable. If they're headed that direction. It'd be an interesting IPO with Lance on the investor list.



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- I do all my own stunts
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Sean F] [ In reply to ]
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And will Cervelo finally lose their spot on the Kona count to Trek?
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Re: Rappstar's viewpoint on Lance in IM? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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But Livestrong doesn't fund research...And Lance racing triathon will NOT have any impact on the NIH funding level. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand how things reall work in Washington.

Bob
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