I initially bought a Giant OCR1 with full (everything) shimano 105 for about $1000 three years ago to train for mt bike racing. For that, it was the ideal bike. Since then, I have converted to road racing and for that reason bought a nice wheelset in my price range (Hugi hubs, Mavic open pro's). I see many people with bikes that cost 2 - 3 times of what mine was, and it has no relationship with the outcome of the race. FTR, I will get a new bike this year.

The TCR comp 2 is a rocket, as long as it fits you. It's a great buy for 2000 imho, especially as Giant is making it themselves, and don't farm it out to another manufacturer. you likely won't get any oohhs and ahhs, though. Don't know much about using it for tri, except that there's quite a few out there - normally people buy a slightly smaller than required frame and slap on some aerobars, and it works well. I think cerveloguy had that setup, you ought to get in touch w/ him.

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Josef
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blog

Team ONCE and Telecom race them in the TDF and Luc VL won IM Kona on a TCR. The OCR is similiar but has a more relaxed geometry with a longer head tube and longer wheelbase. The TCR is usually the better choice for what you want.

I had an aluminium TCR which I really liked both as a road bike and for doing tris. And I'm told the carbon version is even nicer. They're fast bikes and lend themselves very well for tri. For tri all I had to do was swap to a neutral seat post which gave about a 75/76 degree effective seat angle which i really liked. Add aerobars and you're ready to rock and roll.

Giant is probably the world's biggest bike maker and they are almost the only major company that makes their own frames in house. That's why they can give such good value for the money.

It has treated you well in terms of reliability and quality?

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I am also big on Felt's F2c. Another bike that seem to have extreme value.

http://www.feltracing.com/..._bikes/2005_f2c.html

The Cervelo Soloist really intrigues me but seems at the upper end of what I want to spend. Can it be ordered with maybe Ultegra instead of Dura Ace to save a few dollars.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I ride the 2005 TCR composite (new Ultegra 10-speed)... and you're right, it's a lot of bike for the money. I can give you a comparison because I rode the old TCR 2 as well. The TCR composite has the same responsive feel but seems to soak up the road shock a bit better (placebo effect? perhaps)

Cerveloguy is right... Put a neutral seat post and "shorty" syle aerobars on, and provided your suited to that position, your bike won't be the limiting factor.

The Cervelo Soloist is also a very good choice. The trade off is aero aluminium frame vs carbon frame. The
older Soloists used to come with Ultegra but now it's Dura-Ace or Campy Centaur. The Centaur is probably a little bit upmarket from Ultegra.

I have a Comp. TCR1. It is a great bike with great spec for the price. To get a comparable bike from most other companies you would need to spend another 1k at least.

Paul

What are you going to be doing with this bike? Tri? Road? Both?

My answer will change depending on your needs.....

I have a TCR Comp, Soloist and a Felt F1 (along with others), so easy to compare all of them....

Mostly road. 1-2 Olympic distance tri per year.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I did a ton of research and just ordered my soloist, I can't wait for it to arrive!

I came to this conclusion because I live in a pretty busy area and I'm also interested in doing group rides and road races along with tri's at least 3x a year....it seemed the only bike that nobody had anything bad to say about it.......

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</*I'm not slow, I'm a better than average Clydesdale*\>

Well, we looked at the TCR 2 and bought the Felt F2C instead. At the real selling price (not the MSRP) they are the same price within $100 depending on your dealer, but the Felt comes in more sizes, has a better top tube to seat tube ratio, a slightly steeper seat angle which we do like for some riders and is more friendly with most aero bars for most raiders and has Shmano Dura-Ace 10 speed STI, front and rear derailleur, cogset and a better wheelset that is about 95 grams lighter than the wheels on the Giant.

So, you are getting Dura-Ace instead of Ultegra and a wider size range with possibly better geometry for the same price.

At the beginning of the year we buy bikes like anyone else. We shop them all. Felt beat Giant on spec, price and geometry.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

The Giant OCR2 Tibbs sent me is working quite well. I did a 53mile ride this Sunday and it was loads of fun. Someone here locally is going to give me some old clip-on aero bars too!

I'd recommend the Giant for a road bike, don't know about them for a Tri-bike though.

If I had the money to afford it, I would probably get a Cervelo Dual.

Trae

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Trae McCombs
TSR - Sponsored by the Masses. Racing for the hell of it.
Ironman Finisher 2005 -- 14:09:18

The TCR Comp and the Soloist are fairly simliar to me (sorry Gerard). I'd consider them both Porsche 911 whereas the F1 is C Class Benz. The TCR and Soloist are very nimble, quick machines. Probably have to do with the compact geo and short chain stays. Steering is very responsive...perhaps a bit hyper active.

TCR/Soloist - The carbon is perhaps more "damp", but can't tell much of a difference unless I hit a pot hole. I'd imagine you'll have an easier time fitting into a Soloist. The TCR Comp sizing is really screwed up. Sure, you can put on a different stem and post, but you them mess up your ESTA. I'd lean towards a Soloist.

The F1 is your run of the mill road bike, which is maybe why they changed to carbon. Very predictable, nothing really fancy...just a really nice road bike for the money. Very easy to size and perhaps the best value (when available).

I don't buy the "convert the Soloist to a tri geo" marketing. To me, it's 100% aero road bike with internal cabling and/or a time trial (5cm rule) bike.

Any of them would make a nice draft-legal tri bike. If it's a rolling/turning course...I'd lean towards the Soloist or TCR.

If you have explicit question, feel free to PM me or post...

Smitty8, my friend- please- measure the bikes with a tape measure, look at the construction of the chainstays and the bottom bracket.

Looooookkkkk........

Now, see the difference?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Make sure you pronounce that right.

If you have a TCR, its pronounced, "Gheee Aunt." This is optional if you have Shimano 105 on it. If its a TCR0, with Campy Record on it, or Dura Ace, this isn't an option, you ride a "Ghee Aunt," dammit.

Many a new rider of a TCR0 composite has been kicked out of local riding clubs, coming in talking about their new "Jyy Ent" bike. See below about Jolly Green Giant use.

If you have a OCR, its just plain old pronounced, Giant, like the jolly, green Giant. This is required. Don't be riding around saying you have a "Ghee Aunt" pedaling around on a OCR beater with Shimano Tora. Just don't do it.

What in particular?

Just measured (I work from home)..both chain stays (center of BB to rear axle) are 40cm.

"At the real selling price (not the MSRP) they are the same price within $100 depending on your dealer"

This has me a bit confused.

Why would someone put a MSRP price that was significantly different margin than their competitors?

At the same price I would agree that the F2C is the better buy spec wise, but everywhere I've seen pricing the F2C is 400-500 more than the Composite 2. Hows that work?

~Matt

That's a question I've been asking bike manufacturers for years.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

[reply]Giant is probably the world's biggest bike maker and they are almost the only major company that makes their own frames in house. [/reply]

Number 2 and 3 in the world, just to name two, also make a lot of their own frames in house, so this seems like a strange statement to make.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Ok so is it "margin per manufacterer" I.E. Felt ha a larger margin than Giant? Or does each individual bike have a different margin?

I can see the different margin per bike, I.E. Higher end bikes have a higher margin, I just don't really see why you'd essential "Price yourself out of the market". I coudl understand it if you were the only game in town or had a significant spec advantage, but I just don't see it in this case.

I guess what I'm really wondering is you mentioned "Real selling price". So do you actually "mark these Felts down, like a sale everyday, or do you only "sell at the real price" if someone pushes you?

I guess if I was in your position I'd be in a quandry.

~Matt

That's too confusing. I prefer a simpler sounding bike name like Guerciotti.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Tom, is it possible to buy a bike from a store like yours with just my measurements? I would have to drive a half day to LA or SF to find high end bike dealers. I foresee a measurement and order, then another half day trip for fitting. Is it not recomended to buy somewhere else, ship it, then fit it at a LBS.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I've been riding a TCR 2 for a few years and I've ridden it in everything from normal training rides to sprint/Olympic distance races to 1/2 IM distance. I had a set of Profile clip-ons and it was just fine. i really like the compact geometry. When i bought mine, they were selling it with an adjustable stem that you could adjust the angle of drop up or down. Don't know what they've got on it now.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Truthfully, I think it is worth the 1/2 day trip to a good bike fitter in your area. Not that we don;t want the sale- we do. However, you are considering putting a lot of cash into a nice bike. The single most important determining factor in the bike's performance is fit. Nothing will have a greater affect on how much/little you like it.

With that in mind and $1500+ on the line I really think it makes a lot of sense to spend the extra time to drive to a good bike fitter whom you trust in your area and get set up that way. That really is the best possible solution.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

yes, absolutely. I think the fact that they say '105' and everything but the headset and seatpost is Shimano 105 says a lot - hubs, cranks, derailleur, brakes, shifters, the works. (Anyone who tells you that Shimano 105 will slow you down vs. Ultegra is delusional, btw).

on to the frame: No problems yet, and I am 6'4", 185 lbs. I put a LOT of torque on that puppy (L frame). It has a replacable dropout which is nice to have on any frame. Welds look ok to the layperson's eye.

Where they save $$ is a) the wheels (heavy w/ bottom of the pack Mavic rims, but bombproof - this spec has since changed), b) heavy stem/bar/seatpost. I never bothered to change it, and think that the next year's version had threadless headset (mine is still threaded which works fine).

IOW, it's hard to go wrong with it if, yes IF, the size works for you. The problems with the XS, S, M, L, are pretty well discussed on this forum, but I think a little overplayed. I think some reason why dealers hesitate to pick them up is b/c they ruin their pricing structure to some degree, and Giants are sold through Performance (which ruins the Giant's profit margins of the dealer).

I know nothing about the Felts (other than I find their top tubes to be strange looking), but agree with Tom Demerly that the seat angle on the OCR (different on the TCR) is a bit slack.

bottom line: would I buy the same bike again for $1000? Absolutely.

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Josef
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I bought the first TCR available in 1997 (it was a hideous yellow/green color they called haze yellow, looked like a cheap highlighter), with 105.

Bought it to learn to ride, it was a great road bike and I was on for my first two years of tri. Then upgraded to a Roark TT bike.

I literally rode the components off it in five years, so I stripped it to the frame and let it sit in my garage for a few years then slowly started to buy new components to rebuild it.

Last Saturday I bought a pair of 105 shifter/levers to complete the project (it took two+ years). They should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. I can't wait to slap them on and ride my Giant again (this time with a flat black paint job). I will use it as a road-only training bike for the next year to get myself back in shape to race in 2006. Flight school has kept me away for three years.

I it fits you, buy it, you won't be disapointed. Great value, great fun.

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"Nobody gets out of here alive."

I have an OCR for training a a recently rebuilt carbon TCR for hilly technical courses (when i'm not using my Kalibur). They're nice frames but fit is critical. If you're relatively big like me you'll flex the seatpost like crazy and I can really move my BB around. That said the reason I haven't sold it is because I like the ride and the handling. The front fork is a little too laterally flexy and can't handle tri spokes on the front on the larger sizes but its worth considering.......along with half a dozen other brands !!!

A half day to LA or SF? Where are you at? I live between the two in the central valley. There's Tri-Sport in Fresno and Mike Weathers lurks on this post daily and is quite proficient at bike fit. True they have much more road than tri on the floor but Mike has raced tris since the 80's and they do stock some Felt tri. He understands the nuances between multisport (running off the bike), road tt (like the ITT at the Madera Stage Race), and road riding.

If you're more on the central coast former top AG'er Scott Smith owns Art's Cyclery in San Luis Obispo. They do a lot of tri and Scotty also knows about position.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have a question. IMO Giants offer a lot of value for the money and if you get a zero offset post you may be able to get a good fit depending on your body dimensions. I have a TCR and did 3 1/2 IM and 1 full on it.

Miguel in the 'No AKA El Tribato (tribato@hotmail.com)

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Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

PM'd you

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Since you're just down the road in H-town I would definitely recommend calling Tri-Sport (take the 41N and take the Friant ave exit and turn left off the exit ramp. it's on the corner of Blackstone & Nees) and making an appointment with Mike. Call and talk to him 432-0800. He can guesstimate what size you'd need and tell you what they have in stock.

FTR, Performance Bike down the street carries Giant but they have no one who does multi-sport much less anyone who knows anything about fit so unless you're absolutely certain of what you need, I'd stay away.

Anyway, gimme a call if I can help 355-5159

Miguel in the 'No...El Tribato

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Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Me and my riding bud are going to Cupertino and Palo Alto to do some bike power shopping on thursday.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I remember those stems. It its the one I remember it was a 1" quill style and very heavy. Now they're using 1 1/8 threadless so the trick would be to get a Specialized Team flip flop stem. They can be use in four positions - -8, -16, +8, +16.

CG, give me 2 good reasons why I should buy a Solist instead of a Felt F2c.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man