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"Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year?
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I've been in Afghanistan for about 6 months now and I return in December. I've been upping my running over the last month or so, just, honestly, out of athletic boredom. I forgot to grab the Guide Books I bought authored by Matt Fitzgerald, and so I've just been making up my training program in my head. I had been doing a 3 - 5 - 7 cycle, meaning 3 miles at higher tempo, 5 at medium, and 7 at just under a 10 min/mile pace. I'm also hedging a very very slight nagging Plantar Fasc on my right foot, which has a lower arch than my left.

Anyway, I got a brainstorm (not) idea to just up my miles every day. I started doing 5.5 up to 9 miles, two days on, one day off. The outside of my left knee started complaining so I backed off to a 3-5 cycle (2 on 1 off).

Which now leads to today. I've been frustrated that my iPhone app hasn't been working since I jail broke the phone (for use in Afghanistan), and ordered the miCoach Pacer Bundle. I really liked the way their website was set up, and the fact their system would work with any MP3 player, as well be compatible with Garmin watches running ANT+. I selected "Plan for a Race," and then 1/2 marathon. It plotted out a plan that started today, and culminates in November.

I plan to run the 70.3 on Mar 13 in San Diego. Which means for the average 1/2 IM a plan starts towards the end of Nov (right after this miCoach plan ends). Am I wasting time building up for a half marathon that won't exist? There are 5K and 10K races occasionally at camps around here, but given the fact a 10K means you're doing a 1K loop 10 times... I can't see anyone putting on a race where you loop 20+ times.

Again, I'm in the middle of Afghanistan with not much to do (outside of work..during work I have plenty to do)... However, I also don't want to waste hours on the treadmill that I could be spending watching paint dry, flossing my teeth, convincing myself French chicks might actually look attractive. :)~
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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So, should we assume that you have no access to bike or swim?

It's obviously not a waste of time. Also, there really isn't that big a difference in training programs for a 1/2 marathon and 10K, so I'd train for one of those shorter races to keep up your motivation and keep up your interest (which seems to be a challenge right now). Regardless of whether you're training for 1/2 marathon or a 10K, you should be focused on increasing the frequency and volume of your running. You don't have to worry about running too much until you're logging >50 miles per week, which you're safely under now.
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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If you train but don't have a chance to race, you will still be fitter and faster when you get back. Far from a waste of time.

I'm confused about your 2 on/1 off thing and building miles each day. Generally better to run more frequently and consistently. I think you could do a better job with spreading out your miles through the week. 4-5 easy runs, a long run with threshold pace time in it as you get closer to the race, oh on one of those easy runs do 5 x 50 sec accelerations.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know anything about training out there, but THANK YOU for what you're doing for us all by putting your ass out on the line in Afghanistan.


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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for what you're doing! 1st, there's absolutely no waste in keeping in shape- if you let it go, that 70.3 will be hell next year. 2nd, try to mix it up- weights, crossfit, ANYTHING, is better than nothing over there. 3rd, find the positives- Kandahar is extreme heat training, Bagram is altitude (a little bit, anyhow).

Seriously, keep your armor strapped on tight and don't get complacent. Looking forward to hearing you're home and ready to race in a few months!

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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [lunchbox] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the help.

There are bikes in a sense of spinning style bikes and a couple aerobic bikes (meaning, there's a computer to track, vary tempo, etc). I have seriously been debating buying a bike and CompuTrainer and having them shipped out here. However, the price on the CompuTrainer has me holding off so far. I keep spending lots of money on equipment (not complaining, just explaining the current limitation). I ordered yesterday a trigger point foam roller, miCoach tempo bundle (HR, pedometer and "coach" module), and some other goodies. I didn't mention this but I do psuedo "bricks" every couple days. Meaning, I'll run 6 miles and then do a high tempo (115-125 RPM, med resistance) 20k on the stationary bike.

There are no pools due to cultural sensitivities. I'm told there used to be one but it didn't go over well when the "Invaders" came in and created a pool in the middle of a desert where water is somewhat scarce. They filled it in and then paved over it. This is the story I heard, so no idea the validity. There's no open water for quite some distance.

OK, so I'll go ahead and train for the 1/2. I was not going to stop training all together, but I was going to keep it to 3-5 miles. It's interesting the schedule that's been suggested is very similar to the one miCoach said (one long run), and I selected 5 running days per week. I also ordered yesterday the Jack Daniels "Running Formula" book I saw suggested on another ST thread.

My doubt was whether training here this year, would really help next year. To date, I've never trained for anything longer than 6 miles, and so I'm in new territory here. Most "plans" I read, only go, at most, 16 weeks. So I started to wonder if it really helped or not.

Thanks for the kind words. Fortunately the Taliban really suck with mortars and so I've missed a few that flew overhead. It's the suicide bombers in cars that have me sweating it out, but all the NATO troops here are very professional, and so I'm always certain we'll make the best of any situation. It does motivate me to try a Tri (pardon the pun) somewhere in Europe though. It's awesome seeing, meeting, getting to know people from all around the world. So much so, it's always a surprise to run into someone from back home (San Diego).
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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Couple things I forgot to reply to:

I'm in Kabul right now, and so I think the altitude training will help (since it was mentioned). We are at almost a mile high (.97 miles), and so I should do much better at home (sea level). I travel around quite a bit (Masir E Sharif, Herat, Khandahar, and Bagram).

The 2 on, 1 off was just something that "felt right" in terms of recovery time. I would run 3 miles the 1st day, 5 miles the second. I would take a day off and then run 7-8 miles, followed by a 3 mile run. I would take a day off, and then do a 5 and 7. So I was always varying the run right after a rest day. There's no good explanation, just seemed to fit my "motivation/energy" cycles. If I tried to vary it, sometimes it worked and sometimes not.

One night, I had a dream about running, and then actually had the idea firmly planted in my mind, "Today is going to be a great day to run." I had a great run. A few days later, I tried to use this positive thinking, and my energy reserves just weren't there. It didn't feel good, I was tired, etc, and so I made it a 5 mile day.

*EDIT: Thanks for the 50 mile tip. The highest I got to was a 35 mile week. I did the hard brick I mentioned above, and my IT Band wasn't happy, and so that's when I started thinking, "Is it smart for me to be pushing this hard now, if I'm not racing until next year?" My IT band has since been just fine and not hurt or been sore. I think I just hit it with too many new things (new shoes, harder brick, also started doing the run at an incline, and a couple other things I"m forgetting) all at once. I pulled back a bit and all is well. OK, except my Plantar Fasciitis. Although, it's manageable. It barely hurts and never affects (knock on wood) my training.
Last edited by: johnschubert: Jul 13, 10 22:28
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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As you up your mileage, do things to take care of your IT band. There are a lot of simple exercises that don't involve any equipment. Search "the definitive guide to ITBS" on here for all the good stuff.

Even adding a mile or two run on your 2/1 "off" day would be a good way to add frequency and consistency. That short a run = extra miles with an extremely low recovery cost.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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I say go run in the heat when it is at its hottest. With a big sign that say's "Proud American" over your head all painted up in the stars and stipes red, white and blue :0) Dude... keep your head down and eyes open , come back home safe!!!! Plus - dont do any of the stuff I mentioned above. Thanks!!!!

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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the idea Tiger, I'll give that a go.

I'm pretty clearly an american (light colored hair, blue eyes, clean shaven/military haircut). You have no idea how badly I'd love to just go running along the mountain side here. I'm also Jonesing to buy a Chinese knockoff motorcycle (about $500 US around here) and go tearing through trails. However, I've got 2 kids that might want to see me again, and I'm a creature of habit (meaning, they'd pick up my schedule quick) so I'd be easy to "capture" (or worse).
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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Here's the thing....If you can't race til next year it's a pretty simple formula...lots of slow distance. A half mary program or a full marathon program would be great.
Watch those impending injuries though...don't throw this year completely away by getting injured.
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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So running long periods (meaning 1-3 hour runs, over the course of an entire summer) isn't a bad thing? I've been a lurker mostly here, and I subscribe to the TCSD mail list, and it seems common advice is to never settle into a slow, consistent training regimen. Maybe I mis-read, but it almost seemed like "Born to Run," subscribed to good training also being fast training.

I can run all day at a slower (for me 10:30 min/mile) pace, but my goal, and yes I know all newbies probably have this pie in the sky dream, is to do well within my AG when I do finally compete. I'm tired of always being bottom 50% of 5K, 10K runs, and from my practice bike sessions (before I left the US), I think I can do pretty well if I can drop my runs down into the 8s. However, as you wisely mention, the downside is injury. This time, and previous sessions, have all led me down the path of injury when I try to drop to or below 8 min/mile paces. It's even happened when I only hit that pace for the first 1.5 of my 5 mile runs.

Hopefully I can get a better understanding of the fundamentals when my Amazon shipment gets here. I added Noakes' "Lore of Running," to my order before it shipped. Between the advice here, those books, and just studying running plans, I hopefully can avoid injury.

I'm glad you spoke up about running slow is ok. One of the upsides to being deployed overseas is lots of time to read and train. Just too bad there's no water, because my swimming needs the most work. For some reason when I swam 100' and cove areas, I was ok, but when I hit open ocean I can't get my breathing down.
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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Well, ideally a lot of different paces are needed for best performance, but here are some simple musings of mine....

I found myself as a high school runner very prone to injury. It was always fast running (speedwork) that injured me. I was lacking in leg speed anyway, so my goal was to be a great marathoner (even as a high schooler) so I targeted the longest races.

I trained in the off season at 100mpw or so. My race pace was 5:00-5:40 for anything up to 10k. My training pace was 8:00/mile.
I could do 100 miles at 8/min pace ALL SUMMER LONG and show up to a 5k and run 17s.
Granted, I was capable of 16:00, but that takes less speed and intensity than we think.

Running lots of slow stuff trains your body, through the fatigue that sets in, to be mechanically efficient. There is some percentage of carry-over from that even when running faster. Don't know how much...just know there is some.
Also, you train your system to be metabolically more efficient...still has carry-over to faster running....your heart's stroke volume is improving and for whatever reason(s) your LT still goes up.

This is all money in the bank. If you don't get to run faster until next year, it's OK.

When you do get to run fast...because you know you aren't on the edge of injury...introduce fast running in a ridiculously slow manner. I suggest something like this progression:

1) 100 yard strides...accelerate from training pace to 80% of sprint in first 40yards and maintain to 100 mark. Do this 5 times. That equals about 1.5 minutes of fast running. Do twice per week.

2) Increase 1.5 minutes of fast running (or 3 minutes per week) to 5 minutes per week. Done however you want. The goal is not really to create a metabolic adaptation yet....the goal is for the mechanical adaptation to happen before we push forward more...this is injury prevention. Train the muscles, tendons, joints to handle the impact at this higher speed (stride is longer).

3) Keep a gradual progression that is much less than you are tempted to do. Any soreness and you limit your entire week to slow running.


My theory is that injury results from impact and that the effects of impact are directly related to stride length. Increased speed = increased stride length = increased vulnerability to the impact.
So you add the faster paced running in a very gradual way....so gradual that you can take the rest of the year before you are doing a mile of 'fast' running in any one workout.


I'm going through this process myself in fact. Came back to triathlon after a long time away from anything endurance-related about 5 years ago. I've been hampered by running injuries continually since then. This year I'm taking a ridiculously long time to re-introduce running (even slow training miles). In the last 14 months I'm now up to about 15 miles per week of running at 9:00 pace....but I'm racing at under 8:00 off the bike... You do what you have to do because you are faster when training slow then you are when injured....right?
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Re: "Dead Miles" ok when you can't race till next year? [johnschubert] [ In reply to ]
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Like I said I was joking. Stay safe and come home to see the kid's. Gives a whole new meaning of Train safe, train smart. Thanks again for your service.

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