get a second opinion...right away...don't believe anything...

read the "lore of running"...some comments of Tim Noakes is that
1. virtually any injury can be healed
2. most of the time, you can avoid going under the knife
3. if a doc says you can't run or not as much as you want (ever) see someone who understands.

Believe.

Turtlegirl - What's the problem with your foot?



I'm no medical professional...but my Dr is. When I go to him with an issue, he always knows that I'm never going to stop, so he creates a solution. If he knows I have an IM coming up, he's not going say "don't run" because that's not an option. Rather, "skip the running LSD, but continue your daily runs with max cushioning and your short runs after a long bike...blah, blah, etc." Doesn't hurt that he's gone to Kona 5x (4 as a Doc)........

I guess what I'm saying is get a 2nd opinion. The body is a remarkable machine and don't settle for just one "opinion", seek out solution providers not limiters.

Good luck.

Second the opinion to get a second opinion. And, try to find a doc with a sports practice or background.

Nov 02 I had a serious shoulder injury (torn rotator cuff, soft tissue damage, muscle damage, etc.). The injury was classic for shoulder surgery, which would mean a 6-12 month recovery (for me, this meant I could not work because I was a police officer at the time). I sought out the best sports orthopedist I could find, and we came up with a non-surgical solution. Today, my shoulder is nearly as good as it was prior to the injury, and likely better than it would have been had I opted for surgery.

Find the right physician to treat your injury while maintaining your lifestyle. A lot of physicians -- particulalry orthopedists -- are oriented towards surgery first.

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*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"

Sorry to hear it. I'm recouping from a scary knee injury(partial MCL tear), so I can relate to the frustration.

Couple of suggestions I have personal experience with.

- Chi Running. It's not hype. Don't let the New Agey marketing put you off. It will change the way you run, your focus, and the wear and tear on your body. Take a class, you will definitely feel the results. A coach can tell you things about your form you might not even be aware of. Do it.

- Gradually strengthen up your feet. Run on sand or the beach if you can. Run barefoot if possible. Reduce youre mileage considerably and start to build up again. Try an 'unsupportive' shoe like the Nike Free. Your feet will get more sensitive as well as strong and alleviate all sorts of problems.

- Ask around and get a recommendation for an acupuncturist. They can work near miracles on soft tissue-related problems as well as lots of other things. I'm getting treatment on my knee and improving steadily.

Good luck.

I will add that in 1997, we saw one of the 'top sports specialist', orthopedic surgeon etc...really renowned. my wife had both ankle and shoulder problems (ex-swimmer, really flexible, lots of injuries).

he said: 'forget it...no more swimming or running for you'.
she worked hard...muscled up a bit...and did her tri 2 years later, first IM in 2001 and has done 6 now with sub 4h marathons. not bad for someone who will never run again

Absolutely. I forgot to add that a good Physical therapist is at least as important as your doctor. Seriously. I worked with a masochistic lady orginally from New Zealand who made me suffer like no one before or since (save, perhaps, for my wife ... but that's another story entirely). But it paid off.

The dr said that one of the reasons I was able to avoid surgery was because I, and my shoulder, was in great shape from multi-sport (back then I was doing a lot of mtn biking, adventure racing, lifting -- I was trying to make the SWAT team--, krav maga (Israeli martial art), etc).

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*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"

been there, heard that before. Four years ago had 75% of my medial mensicus removed from right knee. Tore the protective cartlege 3 months later. Two years after that, figured I'd get the knee looked at again since I was still running in some pain every day. I went to an knee doctor that was a runner and had the reputation for telling clients they could still run. After looking at my new MRI's he tells me its time to increase my cycling and swimming and lessen my running, as in no more than 4 miles every other day. Of course I don't listen well and now am running 50 miles a week and have done two Ironmans and two marathons since that last diagnosis. There is still a certain amount of pain every day when I run, but the funny thing is that the more I run (frequency wise), the less it hurts.
Moral of the story is, get a second opinion and even then, remember that they call it "practicing medicine" for what doctors do. It's not a knock against them, but the human body and what it can do is not an exact science, we just don't really know it's true limits.
Second moral to the story, get a very good PT and do the extra work to strengthen other supporting areas/muscles that could help out.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

I agree with the comments to get a second opinion. That is always wise especially if the doc is not a runner.

Mike, from what you have said you are on your way to wearing your knee completely out. The meniscus is like a shock absorber to protect the underlying articular cartilage. Without 75% of your meniscus will wear out the articular cartilage and develop arthritis. Running will accelerate this process. You might be looking at a complete knee replacement down the road, much sooner if you pound the hell out of it. That's reality.

Running won't cause arthritis in a healthy knee but will accelerate the damage in an already arthritic knee which I am sure you have.

I see MRI's on relatively young athletes just about every day who are ready for a knee replacement. That's not good if you have a lot of living yet to do.

I'm in the second (and third) opinion camp, too.

I'm also of the opinion that many professionals treat cartilage in the knee as a piece of felt of a certain thickness, and it will wear down to nothing after a given number of movements. I've had them tell me this very thing. They don't think of cartilage as a living, growing, healing-capable substance, hence, the idea that running is necessarily "bad" for the joint. They are wrong. You need to move on to someone else if you were dealt one of these people in the cards.

But, if you indeed have documented major cartilage loss, eventually, you will pay for it some time in the future whether you run or not. I've seen the articular surfaces in hundreds of knees during knee replacement (I'm there to salvage as much blood as I can, so the patient hopefully doesn't have to get a blood transfusion from a donor.) When that cartilage is gone, it really becomes bone grinding on bone...you can clearly see the roughened, reddened, painful, bloody surfaces that are supposed to be white/clear and shiny. You do need to realize this is an inevitability IF you have a major loss of cushion, and more running will cause it to wear out more quickly compared to less running, or no running.

I'm not saying don't run, I'm just saying, don't kid yourself as to what will happen sometime in the future.

Artificial joints are better than they used to be, but, you still don't want one any sooner than you must. With the new artificial spinal disc implant just approved, hopefully one day, a reliable knee cartilage implant may be available that would allow resumption of high running volume loads...I simply don't know...it's not my specialty. But, only you can decide how much risk you wish to assume by your volume of running, and you need to know as many facts as possible in order make truly informed choices. In the meantime, you sure are performing at a level that surpasses the vast majority of people in your age group!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I would second the thoughts about the doctor's not necessarily being right. It is really amazing what the human body can do. Get at least one more medical opinion.

But, more to the point and to answer your question, based upon one whole season of triathlons (and 12 years of swimming, 6 years of marathoning and lots of reading) I think you can be at least semi-competitive in Olympic tris on 15 to 20 miles of running a week, especially if you can still swim and bike a lot. With that mileage, it's easy to do a good speed workout of some sort and two easier runs of varying distances, even ten miles or so from time to time. This is the amount of running that I did this season. I did not place in the top 1/4 of my AG overall, but this was because it was my first season trying to ride a bike quickly. If my bike were in the top half, I probably would have been fairly close to the top 1/4 of the AG.

CTL wrote: I think you can be at least semi-competitive in Olympic tris on 15 to 20 miles of running a week.

For Age Groupers, this is certainly true. I put in a total of THREE weeks of 20 miles or more last year...one of those weeks was during an Iron distance race. I never finished worse than top 4-5 on the run split or the AG results, except one race where I was sick and should have been in bed. Maybe there was one other race where a bunch of big dogs showed up where I finished slightly lower than 5th...don't remember.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that minimizing the number of miles running is a good strategy for longevity. I could be wrong....again. I spend the vast majority (although it's not of epic proportions!) of my training time on the bike for this reason.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

that's my big fear - that my knees will go, just as I'm starting to get in to running



get a second opinion, find a doc who runs

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--------------------------------------------------------------------

After heart surgery, was told to limit my exercise so that my heart rate never exceeded 120. I spent twelve iving like, well---- an average American. When I tired of that, I went in search of a specialist who had some experience with athletes. I will be entering my third year of competition. Therefore:

1. Get a second opinion from a doctor who will look for solutions,

2. Leave no stone unturned in your search for resolution to your problem, and

3. Don't give up!

Good luck!

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Lou Battaglia

Why didn't I retire last year?

yeah, spit that out right now, otherwise, you'll be creating your own limitations based on his poor advice. call your best local running store and ask for a recommendation to a doc who specializes in athletes.

now matter what, i know my doc would never say anything like that to me...in fact, he's the one telling me to get off my ass and that I can do anything I want, as long as i train smart.

these docs are out there...take the time and check your resources to find one.

spit it out.

kittycat

1. How's your weight? Being too heavy will over-stress your joints.
2. How's your running form? Are you a heel striker? Might be a good time to learn to run more *forward* on your foot.
3. How's your strength? Are your muscles strong enough to off-load some of the stress that might be finding it's way to your joints?

Never believe someone that tells you that you can't do something.

Silly... Listen to Francois...

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I did NOT want to hear, in early '00, that I had a tibial stress fracture. I also did not want to hear my doctor say that at my age (then 51) if I kept pounding out the miles I would continue to get injured, and that I should spend much more time on my bike. When I told him I didn't own a bike, he looked at me very strangely. To keep in some sort of shape during the Canadian winter I started swimming, and one day I realized that if I was swimming, and would return to running,a nd would get a bike, well, maybe I ought to try that triathlon stuff. As it turns out, that stress fracture was the "best bad injury" I ever suffered, pushing my into triathlon which is the best thing that ever happened to me.

I'm sorry about your situation and I would echo the other responses to get a second opinion. However, there bountiful oly, int, and sprint races out there, more than you could ever enter. and if you live anywhere near Ontario, there are also lots of races between sprint and oly in length, plus three betwewen oly and 1/2IM distance. That would be great if, in fact, you couldn't ever run/race at the 1/2 marathon distance - maybe 15 km would work well for you!

Good luck with this, and keep the faith!

Hey,

Don't get bummed yet. Find yourself a sports specialist who is familiar with ENDURANCE ATHLETES. I put that in caps because I know a lot of great sports docs who spend most of their time taking care of basketball/football players. Even better, find one who is actually a runner/triathlete themselves. There are different factors to consider in different sports, and you want to make sure you are talking to people who know what kind of stresses you will be under, and what is actually involved in your particular sport(s).

Depending on where you are in the country, I can point you to some pretty good people. PM me if you'd like a couple of names, or just drop me an e-mail.

Phil

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Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

I had already scheduled Drs. appointment #2, for today!--this one is a triathlete/marathoner that gave me the cortisone shot and said to do my half! But he's the surgery happy one, so that's why I went to a more conservative guy yesterday...I'm trying to get at what keeps causing my issues (be it plantar faschiatis, quad tightness, piriformis, it band, blah blah blah) which is a malfunctioning hip or S_I joint, I think. Its really apparent in yoga, which I did last night. I also started with a personal trainer to go along with my phyical therapists' program to strengthen my muscles that aren't pulling their weight. I'm trying not to give up and do the hard work to get my body to do "the right thing".

I"m trying the "athletic" doc today to see what he says. I've read enough ST's posts to know not to listen to just one! :) Its just awful though to hear that you might never be a runner and have to constantly limit the miles.... :(

Hopefully his won't be as cynical...poor tri-bike is getting dusty in the corner!

I'd be cautious with

1. surgery. very often you can avoid it.
2. cortisone. If I remember well that stuff 'eats' your tendons.

Also cortisone only masks the pain. It doesn't go to the root of the problem

Depending on where you are, I am sure plenty here know a good doctor that can help.

yep, that's why I went to the conservative doc.



anyone suggest someone in the DC area? anyone? bueller?

Find a third one, in between :-)

I asked Santa for 2 new knees...no luck. :(

Santa is such an Ass! :-)
he doesn't even need his knees as he has his reindeers ;-)

my birthday is february 4th. I'm still hoping!

Maybe Santa is going off the Gregorian calendar?

I'm sorry to hear about your continued problems. I hope everything turns for the best.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

turtlegirl wrote on Aug 2, 2004 -"I had an easy athroscopic surgery where the doc took out my plica, which is a vestigial ligament (or something like that, that you don't really need but can get inflamed). Doc said it was actually very common in triathletes, so if there is knee pain and he knows the patient is a cyclist/triathlete, its usually the first thing he looks for. All's well with the knee now, but only if I can get my back to cooperate! And I turned 30 in February, and am getting faster. ITs good to start out slow in your 20's!"

Turtlegirl so you'll be 31 this year. Happy birthday. Why don't you consider seeing another Dr that would be more helpful in letting you contiue to run.

Watch that yoga. I'm still struggling with an yoga injury that my teacher gave me when she pushed me into a position. Idiot. Also all that straight knee stuff is great.....for stretching your ligaments - absolutely the LAST thing that a runner needs is an unstable knee from stretched ligaments. Don't bother with yoga - just get a good book on stretching and do it gently.

I agree with Francois - I've been told that 'I don't need to run, I am thin enough' *roll eyes* 'running is the worst thing I could do for my knee' (this one was while I was dealing with IT stuff during my first marathon training. Funny thing is, all I had to do was visit a good running store and they put me into some shoes for a pronator. Bingo, no more knee pain 3 marathons and 3 1/2 marathons and countless 20 mile trail runs later.) Granted, you sound like you have more serious issues than I had. But still, they may be workable. Especially if, as Titan said, you minimize your running and maximize your cycling.

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__________________________________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes.
- Mark Twain

Turtle, err on the side of caution. 10-15 years from now, will the 2005 season have been crucial? You can still train relatively hard in the pool and on the bike this year while you examine options. Patience. I agree with other posts about not losing hope. But of all activities, running is the most harsh. So ease into it and don’t worry about losing fitness this year. Cadence matters; small steps are less stressful than big ones. I’m not an expert on alternative training, but have read here on Slowtwitch about the seemingly huge benefits of running in the pool. Go to a health club sometime and watch the running deck on a treadmill while someone is using it. Looks like most of them give about and inch each step in shock absorption. And make sure your knees are aligned during your pedal stroke. If not, a cleat adjustment or those inserts sold by Lemond could help. Once you start running again ( and you will), back off of the running when your knee starts to hurt. Seems like a no brainer, but most of us on this forum will ignore the “don’t run if hurts” advice because of determination and stubbornness. Good luck.

you could get a set of power cranks

Francois make a good point - ALWAYS get a second or third opinion on this sort of thing. However, there are some conditions that can and do put a permanant end to some activities - that is a harsh reality.

However, the good news is that if you are a triathlete you will have a passion for at least two other sports that you enjoy doing - so, it's not going to be a life-on-the-couch death sentance.

If it's running that's creating the problem - you have two options:

1. Stop running at all and just ride or swim. This will obviously mean the end of triathlons, but you can still ride or swim for fun, fitness and even competition in those two sports.

2. See what the minimal amount of running is you need to do to get by. If you are an experienced triathlete with a number of years of training or racing under your belt, I think you would be surprised with how little you need to do in one sport to maintain it or even live with a slight drop in performance.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Turtlegirl,

A - listen to all the other posts. you need a 2nd and perhaps a 3rd opinion

B - second (or third) the ChiRunning recommendation. Learn how to run correctly, and perhaps you won't have these issues going forward.

C - another potential quick fix might be reading Pain Free by Pete Egoscue (sp?) if you search www.addallcom, you can find it cheap, and it'll only be a small investment of $ and time that can possibly pay big rewards for you if it is even partially successful.

D -<what's the least running I can do to stay semi-competitive in Oly's for my age group?>

Well, FWIW, I've NEVER done more than 12-15 miles running in a week (and often less than 10), and my run splits have always been in the top 25% of the field in Olys and Sprints. (this is actually less impressive than it sounds) I also almost never do more than 2-3 days / week of running, and never on back-to-back days.

What I do do, is run shorter but faster runs, w/ good form, and a LOT of bricks, as the bike ride gets me well warmed up for the run. Try to do as much trail running as you can (flat, smooth trails preferred), so you take less of a pounding from running on pavement.

While YMMV (haha!), you don't need to do lots and lots of miles to run reasonably well, which is fast enuff for most of us who aren't going to podium.

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float , hammer , and jog

Pool running (aqua jog belt) is probably the best short term alternative. Recovering from 3 different injuries, my running was confined to the pool only for 2 months each time. End result, no loss of running fitness whatsoever, and, best of all, no speed.

Just vary the workouts to match equivalent run workouts for intensity and duration.

It is boring as hell, but the results are worth it.

"It is never too late to fix your childhood!" Tom Robbins

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Dean Wilson
http://www.anaerobiczone.com
Bicycle Protection Indoors & Out

will do!

and this doc said better things, that I just needed to be more consistent when I did start back up again, doing very little but more reguarly, not the running 3 x a week with one long, but to run 4-5 times but not overly long distances. and yes to the Oly distance only- that for a non-runner like me, the half distance isn't smart to choose anyways.

I feel better! :) thanks for all your support. I'll get my ass to the pool now!

My EX orthopod told me the same thing two years ago! Since then ive done 2 IM's, a couple 1/2 marathons and many tris. I am not sure what your diagnosis is but my doctor couldnt find anything except a deformed kneecap from a hockey injury as a youth. Even after that he couldnt explain what was happening and nothing irregular showed up in my MRI. Because of his indecisiveness I wanted a second opinion or other point of view. So I went to a ART certified chiropractor in Brookfield IL. I told my chiropractor the details, I had run alot before, no problems, then started weight program and then problems. He thought it was a tight quad tendon, gave me therapy and after a month I was running again and after two I did my first IM. Still running strong with occasional discomfort.

Good Luck!

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-----------------------:)
SUPPORT OPERATION REBOUND:
http://www.operationreboundcalifornia.kintera.org/ejs3

Kestrel Syndicate
Macca Fan Club

Lots of good advice here about a second opinion. Perhaps a third but don't put your desires above reality.

If the 2nd and 3rd suggest no more running or surgery, you need to weigh the benefits from the overall costs and what they may mean to you in the rest of your life.

I admire all these people who say "just do what you want" for their enthusiasm but remember, it's you who may have to live with the consequences. Everything has a cost.

Good points.

Runners and triathletes typically do not give certain injuries they rest they need for the body to repair itself and make a minor injury a major one due to repetitive trauma. They also frequently jump to surgery before an appropriate trial of rest which is typically cut short due to impatience. Also there can can be some "doctor shopping" until they find one who tells them what they want to hear not what they need to hear. Beware of these pitfalls. Get a second opinion but at least consider the possibility that doc #1 might be right. Be honest with yourself.

Minor cartilage damage can heal but major damage will not. Uveruse injuries to tendons and ligaments will usually heal with adequate rest but the amount of rest can be lengthy especaily in an injury which has been chronically abused.

I am also a big believer in second opinions, but maybe after a third or fourth opinion you might want to open your mind and start listening. I started running in the early 70's and of my 50 or so running buddies only three of us are still going ok and I am leaning toward getting out of the biz myself.

My ortho doc told me last fall (I'm 52), that every time I lace up my shoes to think of the quality of life I want when I am 80, then go run. I think that is pretty prudent thinking. I have seen several buddies with total knees and hips that aren't the happiest campers on their lifestyle in their mid 50's. I don't have any major ortho problems yet but show some wear on ankles,knees hips.

It is nice to pat your buddies egos when they are down, but the message we give may be the wrong one. Since most of the people on this forum ard doing this for fun , and not a living we need to have a number one goal of being healthy, then worry about the placings.

Yea it is a bummer to have things taken away, but it is tragic to see people trying to go on after they should have changed sports. Some of the sitdown sports like canoeing, rowing, cycling have cool people and toys too and can be just as fun as running. My advice is to hang in as long as you can then focus on a new sport. G

I was thinking of ice hockey myself, until the guy that mentioned the deformed kneecap! so much for that option...I always thought the tri-way was the way to go, since supposedly its cross-training and one wouldn't be breaking down from doing one repetitive sport.

I"m in it for the long haul, since I like all three. I'm not so much worried about 2005 as I am 2025, so I'm right there with you.

How do the older folks do it? like the guy that is 92 or something that set all these records in marathons this past year? I can't remember his age, but once you get past 80, its pretty spectacular to complete one, and I think he did 4 this year. And the 80 somethings that can do 200 fly, when I can't do even a 50?

I would like to be able to swim, bike, and run when I'm 80 (not train, for fun) and not with knee or hip replacements. I want to be one of the 67 year olds that flew by everyone on the bike!

ok, go check the 'Sport Doctor in DC' thread.

some have given names of knee specialists.

Keep looking for answers and don't settle!

Dave from VA

Sometimes we need to stop looking for answers since the correct answer has already been given to us and looking for more answers is a fruitless counter productive search. I know when I am looking for health/injury diagnosis it is not about looking for the answer that i want to hear, but it is about looking for the truth. If the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinions all match then it gets to be time to listen to what the Doctor's say no matter how much we don't like the answer.

As I often tell my kids: "You may not like the truth; but that doesn't change the fact that the truth is the truth."

That is something that I need to remember when trying to overcome an injury. Too often I try to ignore the truth I am hurt and only make things worse in the long run.

And sometimes the answer is "back off before you cripple yourself".

Dr. slick wrote: And sometimes the answer is "back off before you cripple yourself".

I agree. OTOH, who was the girl in the 90's Olympics that vaulted with a severe leg/ankle injury? Made a big score, too, for a medal I believe. I can still see Karoli carrying her around afterward (but, I cannot remember her name...I blame old age). THAT, to me, was the correct risk/reward decision.

For most of us, we're simply hacks playing at a sport from which we wring out some sort of enjoyment by our participation. For us, the advice to take it easy when you get hurt is prudent. Give it a chance to heal, then start back slowly, as advised. That may be all that's needed. If longevity is the goal, more care should be taken NOW. There are injuries that can be trained through, but, care of the others is paramount to successful long-lived participation.

I hope you recover just fine, and are able to continue to participate the rest of your long life.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Kerri Strug. She had an injured ankle and her vault won the US team the gold. (I'm a loser, I googled it.)

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I can't commet with absolute certainty, but I think Sheila Taormina suffered from frequent running injuries. I'm not sure of the solution to the problem, only that it can be overcome and you can still be competitive.

Not through injury, but through ignorance, I ran a marathon without ever running more than 12 miles in training.

If you have a usage/swelling issue, perhaps your race day can be your only long/hard run.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Wise words.

I tried to train through a bout of sacroiliitis prior to IMLP in 2001. I took what would have been a two week recovery had I rested immediately and made it a full year recovery after I pounded the crap out of it for 3 months leading up to the race. After the race it was so painful I could only walk with a severe limp. No running at all for a year, not a step. I thought I would never run again and was very sad whenever I would see my running buddies out on our usual routes. Luckily it healed but it just as easily could have become a chronic disabling problem.

Be very very careful when trying to "train through" an injury. It is usually not a smart thing to do.

it is possible to be semi-competitive on not much running. My usual weekly mileage is 7 miles (1 run/week) on which I've always been in the top 10% in my AG for the run, and usually top 5%. I'd like to run more, but a variety of injuries prevent it - in the last 4 years: calf tear twice, in different muscles; severe back pain; Achilles tendonitis; currently bursitis in the L heel and sciatica. Strengthening and stretching keep these at bay, sort of, on good days.

Pool running is excellent for maintaining run fitness, but hideously boring. I'd buy a waterproof mp3 player for this..

Francois is right. There's almost always a way to keep running, unless there is traumatic injury/surgery in the history.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

It strikes me that we are all happily giving you advice, but I don't actually know what your knee diagnosis is. We have a tendency on this forum to be encouraging, which is great, but there are conditions which probably are not smart to continue running with, and others (like ITB syndrome, for example), which almost certainly do not mean you should have to stop.

While I was writing this, it struck me that the advice you get on this forum is biased by the fact that we mostly continue to be active. What I mean is that anyone told by their physician to stop running who ignored this advice, but found out they had no problem in the long run, could would still be reading this forum. Those that ignored the advice, and ended up with end stage osteoarthitic knees would mostly not be reading this, since they could no longer do triathlons. Just a thought.

Deke

Doctors have been telling me for 45 years to NOT run. I don't have any leg problems except for an occasional twinge of PF in the left foot, yet they tell me running isn't good for me. Only one doctor has told me otherwise. My VA doctors think I'm absolutely nuts. "Don't you want to spend time with your grandkids?" "You know you have to slow down at your age?" (No kidding! Like I could choose?) My neighbors are worse of course.

If you have an orthopedic problem there is a very good chance that some doctor has a cure or a workaround. And about 35% of all orthopedic problems resolve themselves with rest.

I go to races every day where I get passed by little old men humped over and hopping on one leg at 7 minutes per mile. Trust me, the mind is a big, deep, dark secret well of strength. Few of us travel but a few stories down. You may just have to go deeper than most.

And, don't forget TURTLES have survived on this planet for a very long time. They are among some of the oldest species and they didn't last only by crawling into their shell and giving up. :)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Alas were it so simple.

No amount of mental fortitude will cure a severely arthritic knee.

There is a common perception that modern medicine can cure every ailment if only we apply the right treatment. Some things will not get better no matter what you do. Sometimes trying to fix them makes them worse. A good athlete minded doctor knows which conditions will improve with rest or treatment to allow a return to prior training levels and which conditions are best dealt with by trying to preserve function for as long as possible given the average human lifespan.

"use this rubber glove to apply the lubricant and bend over the table" . . . that is always fun for a 34 year old male (or anybody for that matter).



As stated, always get a second or third opinion. When I was in high school I had a problem with my leg and the local small town general practicioner simply told me to stop running and take up a new sport. Coach suggested a second opinion so went to new young doctor a few towns over (that happened to have been a XC american at Wisconsin). Needless to say, he certainly reframed the situation and "stop running" or "new sport" were never uttered.

Of course, that's true, but I see guys with arthritic knees passing me at races all the time. How much do you want it? You can have an arthritic knee and race or have an arthritic knee and not race. (Many conditions get better with simple rest, which is the main message I meant to convey, but probably didn't.)


-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank