Yes on the track conversion using the P2SL, P3SL and P3. A friend also races at the track mass start races on the P2.

Problem is when road racing, if someone manages to stick his front wheel in the rear derailleur of your P2 and P3, your whole bike and not just the der hanger is wrecked.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

there are cable couplers that you can switch out road/tri cockpits w/o re-stringing cables every time, they run about $15 a set. I'm in the process of converting my Look 576 to a road set up as well. My LBS has done it on one of their own. I'll post when I'm finished w/ the project.

I hadn't thought of that. Do carbon road bikes have detachable derailleur hangers? It seems like road racing in general is a risky occupation.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

I'd like to see that.

Where do the couplers go though? If you have internal cable routing, do you still have to route the cables through the frame each time you switch out your handlebars?

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Looks cool. You're making me regret selling my P3C. What is the stem length and height/spacer difference between your track and road setups?

Are you using the same crankset on the road as you are on the track, but swapping the chainring?

I converted my P2SL to a fixie and got stellar results.

In fact Cervelo is now selling a T1. It really looks like a P2SL (or P1) frame w/o the derailer hanger and cable stops. It retails for $1,200.

I went to a longer stem (120 vs. 90) to slow down the steering a bit.

But I've found this bike to perform better than both a bianchi pista and my Cannondale Capo.

What kind of rear wheel you guys used on the converted road/tri ?

The problem comes when you are switching out gears, I don't think your horizontal dropout is long enough. Cool otherwise.

Road: 100mm stem, 40mm spacer
Track: 80mm stem, 20mm spacer

The different setups are in my profile. I'm still working on lowering my tri setup.

Yes, using the dura ace crankset with a different chainring. I had to put the chainring on the outside rather than the inside for clearance, and re-dish the wheel to get the right chainline.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

I'm still using the stock Shimano R500 wheels. Hope to upgrade to a powertap with disc cover at some point.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

You can use different chains with different gear combinations. Just use chains with reusable connectors. The horizontal dropout only needs to be long enough to tension the chain.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

The rear wheel spacing is the issue.

A standard track bike has 120 mm rear spacing and the standard on road bikes is 130 mm.

Therefore, you need a wheel with a 130 mm fixed gear rear hub.

At the entry level Surly makes hubs that work. Phil Wood does too.

I picked up a set of wheels built w/ the Surly Hub and Mavic Open Sport Rims. I paid ~$300 for the set. I really like them.

You may want to spend more on the wheels. As I said in my earlier post, the P2 Frame makes a great fixed gear bike.

I use my fixed gear in the winter for training and I've put over 1,000 miles on it this winter.

Oh, you meant the rear wheel in the track setup. Yes that is an issue.

I had a local bike store build up a new DT Swiss rear wheel with a 130mm fixed gear hub.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Resurrecting an old thread. My oldest will soon start riding and racing on the track here in Indianapolis. Initially he will use a Cannondale Caad 5 we purchased over the winter. (I have a very old chrome Gitane track bike as well.) If he likes it and starts collegiate racing or if we need a third track bike we may convert my Cervelo P3 Sl to track bike use. So, for those that have converted their Cervelos or other road bikes to fixed gear use:

Did you add a track crank or did you use the road crank?

What chain did you use? (Obviously depends on what chainring and rear cog are used.)

Any serious issues getting the chain line straight?

Any option other than building up a dedicated 130mm rear wheel for track bike use?

Are wheel covers allowed at the track? Massed start or or only against the clock or not at all?

Anyone know if quick release front wheels are allowed on the track? If not, anyone have a reasonably inexpensive idea for a front wheel? I have set of Zipp 404 road wheels I barely ever use - anyone know if they can be converted to track use without rebuilding with a new hub?

Thanks.

David K

I'll field some of these:

* QR's -- Don't. For a front wheel, there are options out there like the old Control Tech skewers that used a hex wrench. For a rear wheel, you need the clamping force of a nutted axle.
* Wheel covers -- Again, just don't. Legal for TT's and pursuits, laughed at any other time.
* Road cranks are fine, just go with a SS chainring (1/8" chain width compatible). On the inside is better for chainline, but the frame may not take it.
* There are options for converting a freehub to a fixie (Surly has one, I believe, or at least used to), so a 130mm axle rear wheel is okay. Then you can use a fixie cog.
* 1/8" width track chain.

Hope that helps.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I didn't say they weren't legal, but we're talking about a kid who's just starting racing. I would recommend against. But that's just me...

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Sure I have for the road and for tri. And I'm working on a new project right now. And got some pics of other bikes like this here.

Greg @ dsw

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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well yeah, prolly so.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I used a road crank. Wipperman chain (has a re-usable link). I re-dished the rear wheel to get the chainline straightish. I used a quick release front wheel. At the track I was at, no one commented on it.

Issues: Re-dishing the wheel isn't the best option, because you can't flip the wheel for a different cog size. The rear dropout on the P2 is a bit short, which limits the variety of cogs you can put on with the same chain. I met one guy who had multiple chains for different cogs, and when he needed to switch he swapped both the cog and chain at the same time.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Forgot about the hex key type skewers for front wheel use. Good call, thanks. And, the wheel cover, if he used one, would only be used in non mass start events. David K

You can put 5mm spacers on both sides of most bolted track wheels to space it out to 130mm and keep the track chainline. If track is going to be a longer term pursuit then getting a track crank might be better as you will get the chain line and 144mm BCD chainrings that will be where you end up long term. The inner ring of a road crank is a couple of mm inside of the track cranks but it mostly works, the bigger issue I have had is that road cranks don't seem to be as round as track cranks so depending on how lucky you are there may be issues getting a consistent chain tension which can lead to thrown chains.
Most people use 1/8" chains on the track but 3/32" work unless you are a big sprinter. If going long term look at where you want to be when building up the spare rings and cogs.

Rules say no quick releases, but bolt on front skewers are ok. The Surly adapter is for Shimano hubs so unlikely to work on a Zipp, just find a rear track wheel there are lots out there that don't cost much and work ok. Rear discs are normal for elite races, not so much in cat 4/5 so no need to rush into that.

If you have a track bike to start with go out and use that with basic wheels and equipment to get going and talk to the locals to see what they recommend, with the university there you should be able to get all the advise you need on collegiate racing.

no issue with BB height and clearance? I watched a guy hit a pedal at Rock Hill (42 degrees?) trying to ride a converted road frame. It was ok going fast, but slowing up, the pedal hit the track

P3-SL great mass start/pursuit bike.


Did you add a track crank or did you use the road crank?
-You should get a track crank. Sram Omnium with Chris King BB will help alot if you have any chainline issues.

What chain did you use? (Obviously depends on what chainring and rear cog are used.)
-KMC, Vertex, and Izumi chains all good options. Ride what you have (1/8th or 3/32) just make sure its a quality manufacturer (Sugino, Shimano, EAI, Suntour, etc) I know a few 10sec sprinters on 3/32 that put out 2000+ peak watts.

Any serious issues getting the chain line straight?

Sometimes, case by case and what gear you have on hand. Nothing major though.

Any option other than building up a dedicated 130mm rear wheel for track bike use?

Spacers will work.

Are wheel covers allowed at the track? Massed start or or only against the clock or not at all?

Some racers have slid by using a USAC wheelcover rule. The jist is weekly races its okay, champ/UCI you may have issues, depends on your local officials as well.

Anyone know if quick release front wheels are allowed on the track? If not, anyone have a reasonably inexpensive idea for a front wheel? I have set of Zipp 404 road wheels I barely ever use - anyone know if they can be converted to track use without rebuilding with a new hub


Use the Zipp front track skewer (less than $15 bucks).

Your biggest issue will be dropout length and have the right chain length for the ratios you plan on running.

Youll probably need 2-3 chains cut for different ratios if you get geeky.

KW

Depends on the track and crank length. For the most part, unless you're doing match sprints, you'd be fine.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

>I didn't say they weren't legal, but we're talking about a kid who's just starting racing. I would recommend against. But that's just me...


A wheelcover very recently probably saved my ass on the track. Someone flatted, and slide out right in front of me. I ran over his wheels, took a crankarm in the shin, unclipping my right leg, and then felt my bike knocked sideways. But I saved it, and didn't go down.

Checking out my bike after, I found that my wheelcover was totally battered and torn. I'm reasonably sure that the crank arm that took out my shin went into the rear wheel and was deflected by my wheelcover. And I have good reason to believe that if the wheelcover hadn't been there, the crank arm would have gone into the spokes, and I likely would have been in a world of shit.

Since that, you won't see me on the track without a cover or proper disc.

Covers/discs have performance and safety benefits and really no drawbacks except a little weight. I'm working up the courage to use one in a crit!

The P2 has a high bottom bracket. I rode it at Burnaby velodrome which has 47 degree banks. No problem.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Used existing 170mm road cranks with track chainring (50) mounted on the inside using single ring bolts (50). Reversed a set of Redline chain tensioners to adapt the 120 rear wheel to the 130 frame. Chainline seems fine.


Its a work in progress. I imagine we will raise the existing bars and also throw together a set of pursuit/aerobars for timed events. Will swap out the yellow chain. Go with a Zipp 404 in the front. Looking for a disc or disc cover for the rear. I have a line on a pair of Specialized (pre Hed) trispoke wheels that we will use if we can get ahold of them. Might be used in Collegiate track nationals this fall in Indianapolis.


David K

Trail...would please provide some information about your track bike rear wheel cover? Dyma, homemade, other...? The CH Aero/Wheelbuilder model will not work due the different dish found on a track rear wheel. Thanks. David K

It was the DYMA SL "fixed" attached to an American Classic Aero 420 track wheel.

It fit well right out of the box, took just a few minutes to install. Also easy to remove. It is different than the Wheelbuilder-style in that it has a radial split. The radial split makes it slightly less cosmetically nice, but I prefer it because it removes the "wave" issue that can make installing a Wheelbuilder cover a little annoying.

I had no real complaints. Sometimes it'd get a little off center, but use of tape would have fixed it.

I'm only using the past tense because the aforementioned crash ruined the cover, and I found a good deal on a true disc, so I'm running a full-up disc now. But I'd have no problem running another DYMA at some point.

Thanks. I think I will get a Dyma cover soon. David K

Old but awesome black, grey, silver and white beauties. Okay, obviously I am a bit psyched about this as evidence my repeated posts. With a Dyma cover and Campy Vento (like a Shamal) up front. Ready for racing. Have a set of Vision Tech Aero bars and a flat short stem for timed events. The Dyma cover looks better in person than it does in the photo. David K

My wife raced a P2k on the track throughout 2001. Biggest downside was the short dropouts, which limited the cogs/chainring combination she could use w/o breaking the chain. She therefore switched to a P2T when it was released in 2002.

I can see how the short dropouts would be a pain. I have fit a 15 and a 14 with the 50 up front using the current chain. We have a 48 on order and may have to elect to use a second chain.

(Still in a bit of funk because I realized this morning that I had ruined one side of a Dura Ace flip/flop hub using a very old 15 cog that did not have compatible threading.)

David K

Lots of road P3 frames on the track, great frame for MS and Pursuit.

Have at least two chains for your gear configs, you should be able to cover at least 20 inches of gearing this way. Even simpler if youre on a permanent front chainring (53x14x15x16x17=~84" through ~103").

For this kind of conversion, is a shorter (vs. the one used with the tribars) stem required?
(it's an old topic, but I need advice about this)

Most track bike setups will be longer than road and tri.

My track setup is about 20mm longer than my road setup for drop bars. It is nearly the same for aerobars.

I'm interested in the tri to road (not track) conversion. Sorry for not being clear!

Do you have a road bike now you're happy with? Measure it. There are geometry resources on this site to get all the right measurements.

If you're new to road bike positioning, the best thing to do is get a fit, so you have a target to aim for in a conversion. I think it's jumping the gun to be wondering about stem length without knowing a target position for the bars.

Sorry, but, at this stage of the project, I just need to know if, when the pictured bike was converted from tri to road, a shorter stem was installed.
I might be considering getting a fit at some point, though

You picked a good bike to convert to road since the front end is "road like" geometry.

The sizing of the stem will depend on what bars you are going to use.

Some bars are shorter (70-80mm of reach) and some are longer (100-120mm reach).
Some bars are short drop (80mm-ish) and some will have a large drop (120mm+)

You need to decide what bars you like, if you don't know I would suggest getting some cheaper aluminum bars like the Bontrager VR-C in whatever width you like.
https://www.trekbikes.com/...d-handlebar/p/23236/

From there you can mount your shifters, see how you feel with your saddle in a more road-like position. You can then adjust the reach with different stems until you get what you like. If you don't know where to start, I suggest setting the stem length so that when you look down at the front hub, the bars block the view. That's a quick and dirty starting point (Like KOP) and get you close.

Hope this helps.

Actually my bike is a 1st generation Slice, but it shouldn't be all that different. I would put the saddle on the "slack" position and flip the stem.
I think the drop quotes you gave are not correct: possibly it's 130-140mm for the standard sized and 115-125mm for the "compact" ones.
The one I already have has 80mm reach X 120mm drop. I will try with the original stem and see if I need a different length.
Thanks!

The original post is very old, and I honestly can't recall the stem difference between road and tri. Since posting this original message, I did something similar for road and tri using an S5. In that situation, the cockpit switch used its own stem for each.

I did it with di2, which made switching really easy. Just plug and and unplug the front junction (I had two front junctions that stayed on the steams), and the only thing needing work is the brakes. I crazy glued the end of the brake cables so that they could be re-used.

To make things more complicated, I had two different stems for the tri position, a longer one for non-UCI tri events, and a shorter one for UCI time trials. The longer position fit me better and gave me a better position, but it was too long for UCI regulations.

If I recall correctly, the stem for the non-UCI position was roughly the same length as the stem for the road position. As other posters have mentioned, this is all part of the overall fit however, and relates to the stack and reach, which is very individual.

I also swapped the seat post. Cervelo at the time had a two-position seat post for the S5 that allowed putting the saddle more forward for the TT position.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

Below is the S5 in TT mode. This is with the non-UCI long stem. I think that stem was a bit longer than the road stem. You can see that my saddle is also pushed forward.

This was probably my best TT result. I won the Cat 3 group that day.

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Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/

80X120 is pretty standard and a good place to start.

I have some short drop bars that are 80mm, I used them when I thought the bars couldn't be any lower than the top of the front tire.

You may or may not need to move the saddle much. Personally I have short femurs and the difference between my tri/road/mountain/track bikes is about 20mm. You should put your hips (legs) in the most powerful position for the bar position you choose.

A few weeks ago I completed the conversion: i put the saddle on the "slack" seatpost position (+5cm setback) and flipped the stem (+2cm stack). dropbars stack/reach: 120/80mm. Now the "poor man system six" is ready; not the best handling bike in the world, but for some "draft legal" sprint tri's, feels just right