November would be OK. I tried to get a handle on how quickly these things fill up by scouting around some other IM sites.

IM Melbourne 2013: sold out in "just over four minutes".

I suppose there may not be many to choose from down there, unless you're willing to travel thousands of miles.

What's the record for the fastest sellout?

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

No sellout. Too much bleed off on Challenge Pentincton and migration to other races after they lost it.

Yes, you wonder if they've hit the saturation point with these. With IMMT and Challenge Penticton there are now 3 to choose from in Canada whereas last year there was one.

And with Lake Tahoe and other new ones, is it possible that Whistler won't sell out?

I predict you will be dead wrong.

x2. I know a ton of PNW folks getting hoping to get in. I think this fills quickly.

It will sell out quickly. People all around the world know about Whistler. It is one of the biggest tourist destinations in Canada...especially popular with Australians and Germans ( do they do triathlons?;)) Secondly it is on the doorstep of Vancouver and Victoria....really great places to visit that time of year and again already on the international tourist map.

It is also an easy trip from Seattle and the rest of the US north west....i.e drivable.

I dont like the way that WTC handles Penticton and I hope that Challenge and Penticton have a long prosperous relationship ( I want to do that course a few more times)....but I think WTC pulled a bit of a Coup in getting Whistler.

I didn't get an email, but I pre-registered to pre-register and I was told my name is on the drop down list, can someone post the link to the registration page, I tried to search active.com but got nothing.

Yes, agree 100% with this. The Penticton race was awesome, and I hope it's just as successful with Challenge as with WTC. But I agree that getting Whistler to host this is a coup as it will be a fantastic venue - maybe even better than Tremblant!

This Friday ..?!?

Here's the link for those pre-registered: http://www.active.com/framed/event_detail.cfm?event_id=2054569

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"No more hurting people - Peace"

Whistler vs Tremblant:

• Destination: Whistler
• Course: Tremblant
• Hotels : Draw
• Accessibility: Draw (depends where you are from)
• Other Attractions: Whistler
• Temperatures: Tremblant (well at least for me....hate cold water)
• Organization: Tremblant (they have Marc Roy....Whistler is yet to happen)

Dev

Dev - Can you talk Marc into helping out Whistler? He's the best.

For temps - the water in Alta Lake is supposed to be pretty good in late August. So I'd call that a draw. Now if you can get Marc to Whister, that would give the slight edge to Whistler

usually the races that don't sell out quickly are the ones known for notorious difficulty (IMKY, former IMSG). And still even those sell out. I don't think they have reached the saturation point.

"Course: Tremblant" Why?

I've ridden in Whistler on the course they talk about and I just find the Tremblant course has more variety between flats, rollers and steep climbing.

Hey Bruce, I think that Marc was just committed to developing this event in Tremblant. He is maxed out running his 2 companies and can only volunteer to do so many things.

I agree, they haven't reached the saturation point yet. I think Whistler will sell out by Saturday.

Does anyone know how many spot there will be for Whistler? Any chance they keep the number of registrants low (2000-2200) to make sure the first year is a success organization wise and also to be able to claim that the race sold out in 2 hours (as compared to that other B.C. ironman)?

I will be the first to admit if I'm wrong, but let's define sell-out as 3,000 registered, not as WTC declaring a "sell-out" with 2000-2500 registered just for marketing purposes as a challenge to Challenge. Subtacting out the folks going with Pentincton, they've got to find a lot of folks with an open hole in their calendar for late in the year. The 100 Kona slots will help, but they only attract a small percentage of the field. Sell out or not, the number of Kona slots will probably drop to 50 the following year.

I will be the first to admit if I'm wrong, but let's define sell-out as 3,000 registered, not as WTC declaring a "sell-out" with 2000-2500 registered just for marketing purposes as a challenge to Challenge. Subtacting out the folks going with Pentincton, they've got to find a lot of folks with an open hole in their calendar for late in the year. The 100 Kona slots will help, but they only attract a small percentage of the field. Sell out or not, the number of Kona slots will probably drop to 50 the following year.

I'll save my comments for after Thurs.

Yes, we all know Kona slots will go down in 2014. And this belief that Kona slots attract a small percentage of the field is ridiculous. I know tons of people who are at least an hour or more away from qualifying but they do WTC events for the Kona slots. I've had this discussion over and over again with so many people ever since IMC. Right now I know way more people who want to do WTC races because of the Kona slots than I know people who are willing to do events like Challenge. There's a fair number of people who seem to have this inability to look at the Kona influence from a more holistic perspective. It's not just about people who *know* they can qualify.

Where is this pre-registration option?

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Back at the last IMC, there was a mailout that allowed you to sign up to pre-register for IMC Whistler. Those that signed up get to pre-register. But someone Dev was passing around a link on this site. I don't know if it works without a confirmation number, but it's worth a try.

It only works if you put your name in earlier and can find it in the drop down list on the registration page.

cmon, this race will sell out very fast. With over 2500 names on the pre entry list, say half sign up that leaves very few public slots. I live in Seattle and know massive amounts of athletes that want in. Remember, Challenge has a 100% refund policy.

My guess in 15 minutes.

A whistler sellout will benifit Pentictons race

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"Be your best cheerleader , not your worst critic.”

I totally agree with you about the Kona slots. I think a LOT of people on registration day think they have a shot at a spot. Come race day most don't. And if you've already done a number of WTC ironman and you think you might some day get to 12 completions and therefore qualify for the legacy lottery, then you'll probably go with WTC over Challenge.

You ever been to Whistler in the Summer, Dev?

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

I signed up yesterday for Ironman Canada. I loved the Penticton course but the monopoly the town has on the event is far over reaching. For all those that say WTC is greedy I couldn't disagree more. It was the businesses in Penticton that were greedy wanting a 7 day event vs a 5 day event. Last time I did Ironman Canada I stayed at the days in. You can rent the room I was in for $65 a night any day of the week. But we had to pay $259 a night. I just booked my whistler room it is 2 bedroom with kitchen 625 sqft for $179 a night. Nice job WTC.

As for the sell out I believe it will be wrapped up by this weekend.

Replying to this thread:

Khai, been to Whistler 4 times in August (usually at the end after doing IMC). I just find that Tremblant constently has better weather.

In terms of sellout, I give this 2 days max.

Impact of sellout on Penticton is positive. As soon as Whistler sells out and people can't get in, many will go back to Penticton. Right now many potential Penticton sign ups are waiting on the sidelines to see if they get into Whistler

Impact of Kona slots is huge. Forget about registration day. On race day there are still probably 1000 people who think they have a chance at Kona and halfway into the bike there are still 500 who think they have a shot at Kona and by T2 there are still 400 guys doing the math thinking they have a 50/50 chance. By the run turnaround there are still 200-300 feeling they have a chance.....then with 6 miles to go, it is basically around 100 folks fighting for the 50 slots. So yes, way more than 1000 people BELIEVE they have a shot at Kona. I'm always one of those 1000 and in 21 WTC Ironmans I have only qualified for Kona through rolldown twice....yet I keep believing that I might do it again. I'd say that thinking is the majority of sign ups, not the minority. Even the 14.5 hour guy is thinking that if he puts a good winter of training in, he will lose weight, gain fitness and be a 9:50 guy. Not neccessarily realistic, but as long as people keep dreaming and believing then the draw will be there.

Dev

I see some comments on weather, and that the water temp will be fine. But what are the avg daily temps in late August? I for one would like a "cooler" IM race. Say, upper 60s/lower 70s as the high. Seems like Whistler will be cooler, maybe not that cool though.

I agree 100% I always think I am one stomach flu taking out 50% of the competition away from KONA :)

According to Whistler's climate chart
August
22�C / 72�F 13�C / 55�F

30-year average Environment Canada climate normals for Whistler
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/...nth1=0&month2=12

for Aug:
average temp: 16.1 C (61 F)
ave daily max: 22.9 C (73 F)
ave daily min: 8.6 C (47 F)

Also keep in mind race day is last weekend in Aug and the averages for September are about 4 C cooler.

Thanks for th info!

Priority Registration into the 2013 IRONMAN Canada ends tomorrow at 11 A.M. (PDT)!

As a reminder, priority registration will close tomorrow, Thursday, October 18 at 11:00 A.M. (PDT). Slots are going quickly, so we urge you to register as soon as possible to guarantee your entry into the 31st edition of IRONMAN Canada! Entries are being sold on a first-come, first-served basis and although you selected to receive priority registration, your entry is not guaranteed. The entry fee is $625.00 CAD (plus HST and Active.com fees). Should you not complete your priority registration during this time, you may register when entries are available to the general public at Noon (PDT) on Thursday, October 18. To complete your registration, please follow the instructions below: :

1. Click on http://www.active.com/framed/event_detail.cfm?event_id=2054569
2. Select �Register Now�
3. Check all waivers
4. Pick your name from the drop down box
5. Enter your athlete password: (your eight digit birthday with no spaces - MMDDYYYY)
6. Complete your registration

Not sold out yet, (4:30 EST) and only $625

Interesting

Plus HST (12%) and Active.com mandatory 'wrong-holing' fees. I bet they don't take the time to issue HST refunds for non-Canadian residents either. On that note, I would like to point out that Lifetime Fitness went out of their way to issue us US$12 refunds for our USAT fees paid for the Leadman Tri. Classy move!

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

I was traveling through the Nevada on my motor bike a few years ago and while at a gas station a American tourist noticed my BC license plate and said to me "Jesus was born in Bethlehem but God was born in Whistler...". Whistler is truly a beautiful and remarkable place and as such, I suspect IMC 2013 will eventually sell out.

Dev seemed to prefer Tremblant based on his comparison post but I too have been to both and note that (IMO) Whistler is far superior.

It is interesting to note that the 2 week mountain bike Crankworx festival ends the Sunday before IMC week starts - it will be three weeks of cycling events in Whistler.

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ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt

There, fixed it for you. ;)

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

I saw the elevation from the base to the peak went from 2K feet to over 5K feet? Will altitude be an issue in Whistler?

Thanks,
GS

Dont you have to apply to get your hst back? I am annoyed about 12% since Gst is only 5% here.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Well, you can bank on it not selling out before April 2013, and try to register then. I think that is when the HST rolls back to PST & GST. This province is sooooo stupid!

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

With the GranFondo two weeks after IMC.

No I did not say I prefer Tremblant.

I prefer the resort of Whistler but I THINK the RACE at Tremblant will be better at least for this first year in Whistler. Then after that I don't know.

Right now we are comparing vaporware to a real product. Vaporware always wins conceptually, but I'd rather wait till we are comparing two products, and generally like most of my customers, I'd rather hang my hat on real product until vaporware materializes into the real thing. Then we can compare them head to head.

i don't want to commit to race 10 months from now, in the past I have always qualified for a spot at a summer 1/2 IM, does anyone know if there will be spots at 1/2 IM or independent races like there have been in the past. Do other IM North America races have spots at 1/2 IM races?

Sadly, that system no longer exists! You may be stuck going to Louisville!

This is bang on.

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Grant

I'm sure they will get enough people to sign up eventually, but I bet it will take a bit of time. I bet they are more worried about volunteers than anything. A lot of people in the town are 'transient' and not long time residents. It might be hard to pull enough volunteers from a relatively small population in a place that has no shortage of events. If I am the Grand Fondo, I don't think I would share my volunteer list with the two events only a couple weeks apart.

We will be involved on the timing side for sure for Whislter, looking forward to this new Ironman event.

The IM course will not go up the mountain.

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

BORING!!!!

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

Glad to hear that Whistler will be using the world's best timing company (Sportstats).

As far as the Tremblant/Whistler comparision, I think they'll both go down as epic courses. But Tremblant has the advantage of near-perfect pavement whereas I hear that the sea-to-sky to Pemberton is not that great.

No sign of a sellout yet!

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"No more hurting people - Peace"

The highway past Whistler up to Pemberton and beyond isn't all that fantastic, but I hear there's a possibility of improving the road before the event.

Super surprised we haven't seen anything regarding spots left from WTC. Would have expected some sort of "only 500 spots left" message on their facebook if they got there today. Did expect them to reach a near sell-out by Saturday so I guess we will see.

Then again maybe there are a bunch of people like me who signed up thinking they may sign-up but are sticking with Penticton.

Whistler is a great destination and will for sure be the next full I sign up for. I was already eyeing Can Pend and was bummed when they canceled it, though hear dot was hard to sign up for... When they announced whistler I was practically gitty. Great place in the summer for the family. Plenty to do. And you could bring the Mtn bikes along and ride trails after. I hope it doesn't sell out and the course is hard as hell so it doesn't sell out fast!

Trust me, we're annoyed about the HST too =)

Don't let that 12% scare ya, come join us! Just signed up today. Officially in pant shitting mode.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You obviously haven't been following many threads not just about the WTC farce in Penticton, or others about such things as "have the WTC jumped the shark"........Its your opinion that the WTC doesn't stand the sniff test.....they are a corporation concerned with one thing the $$, to argue against that is like arguing that they are all about the "athlete experience"....I hope you enjoy "Whistler"....I hope the event is a success, but don't sugarcoat the WTC, they don't care about anything other than the profit line, if they did IMC would still be in Penticton, but that was "our business decision" to quote Andrew Messick the WTC ceo when asked to confirm that IMC would stay in Penticton long term, at the same time as wanting a yearly $125,000 payment from the city for "rights" to hold the event.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

By Race day, we will hopefully have a new Government, the HST which we the people voted down in August 2011, will finally be repealed, and the good ol' PST/GST will be back....as for claiming it back....well you will have to wait just like us, to see how that will work, as the BC Liberals still won't tell anyone what is happening.......Please ignore their requests to send more Albertan oil, they are trying to con you on that one too.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

I rode Whistler to Pemberton & back this past summer and the highway was just fine. Not sure about the flat section through the Pemberton valley though but looking forward to checking it out. Of greater concern will be the headwind that almost always rolls up the Whistler valley on summer afternoons as you ride back to Whistler from Pemberton.

Pemberton Flats is ok, not fantastic, but no omg sections, its a bit better than the road surface along the Cawston out & back on then old IMC course..........if the winds get up, even though that is dead flat, the ride back to Whistler from the end of the valley will be one looong slog, with a couple of lovely sharp hills on the main Pemberton/whistler section just to kill the legs a bit more.......Beating bike cut off is going to be more of a concern for a lot more athletes

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

AB PC gov is dreaming that Northern Gateway is a slam dunk done deal.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I don't usually weigh in on this stuff. What is it about people in this forum that think that those who put on races have to do it as a benefit function rather than as a way to make a living? Race organizers aren't here to give us a venue to compete in without the right to make a profit on our participation. Companies like WTC are organized for the purpose of making a profit, and if I was an investor in WTC (which I am not), I would insist that their behavior be driven by the bottom line. In order to provide a return to their investors, however, they must deliver a product that the consumer (in this case triathletes) want to buy. So that means they have to deliver a great race experience, including great venues, course managment, and appurtenances that make the event have a "bling" factor. Having done more than a dozen WTC events at various distances, I think they do a solid job of delivering a great race experience. If that impacts hotel rates, restaurant menus, or taxi fares, that's just the market at work. We all have a choice as to whether or not we want to participate.

Just a note, Challenge Family is a NPO. Discuss ...

Is it worth discussing? I'm more interested in seeing whether they can deliver a competitive product and service to WTC. In addition, as an American, until they prove they can, I'm more interested in supporting an American company than a German company.

I do W to P and back as regular training ride when we're there in the summer, and I'd say that if you come from pretty much any metropolitan area you will find the road surface fine.

You're right about the wind. Often starts to kick up from 11.30/noon. I can't see anyone avoiding it.

What if...and I know this is crazy talk...but what if everyone who wanted to do an ironman next year already signed up for one? What if....and I know this will be impossible to believe...but what if the rest of the world is not as interested in ironman as Slowtwitchers? What if....again a ridiculous thought...the buckets are filling up and Ironman is just not what it used to be?

What do you do for a living Mr. TriTrev? Do you make money?

Why is it so bad to think WTC makes a buck? Good for them, I want to make a crap load of money too....and if you don't want it, I'll take it..let me know and I will give you wiring instructions.

Old.Tired.Argument.

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______________________________________________

I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

NPO's still turn profits. They have to make money off the event. They don't purposely put on a race at a loss.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Really??? Other than Syria, who cares what country they are based in? The point is, both companies are doing business all over the world and both are bringing athletes together from all around the world. I'm more interested in things like destination, course, volunteer support, community support etc. If nothing else the competition from Challenge will force the WTC to keep prices down.

I believe that just happened. Tremblant entry fee was $700, Whistler is $625 so the Challenge presence seems to have kept the price down a touch.

Agreed. Whistler is totally on at a sale price and only because of challenge....rev 3 season pass might have something to do with it but challenge is the real player at this point IMO.

$625 sounds like a steal but by the time you are done with all the stupid additional fees the cost is $742 (US not CAN).

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http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction

I've been corrected in that Challenge Family is not an NPO, but the Challenge Penticton people (organizers) are. I misinterpreted something I had read earlier in a different area.

$736 Canadian. Not often Canada wins the exchange rate battle.

Really??? Other than Syria, who cares what country they are based in? The point is, both companies are doing business all over the world and both are bringing athletes together from all around the world. I'm more interested in things like destination, course, volunteer support, community support etc. If nothing else the competition from Challenge will force the WTC to keep prices down.


Yes, I care. Supporting US companies helps the US economy. Every little bit counts. Like I said, *until* they prove to me they can offer a competitive service, I'm sticking with WTC.

Prices� Sigh� People's perspective on this is wrong, imho. If you look at how much the average athlete spends on the sport (e.g., wetsuit, bike, maintenance, components, shoes, nutrition and so much more) and the fact that we take many months, even a year, to train for an IM, then $600 - 700 is just not that much in the big picture. The recurring costs for things like running shoes, for example, amount to a lot than people think.

People want to bitch without good hard evidence and WTC has a target on its back for obvious reasons. I'm a "prove it to me" or "show me the evidence" kind of guy.

I guess that meens your doing Whistler & not Penticton. Me too. Either way the economies that we're really helping are those of a couple of towns in BC, Canada. As a Canadian we appreciate the dollars coming in from the US, Germany or wherever.

Seriously? hmm, good to know! I paid $680 with the chip @ Penticton. the fee was up front except for the niggly little $5 chip fee.

Most of us love to make money, some are happy with what they have, some want some more....some want it all.........make by hard work = great, good for you......make by greed & indifference = not so great.

We, the sport of Triathlon has always been "welcome all".......we were inclusive, it was and is the soul of the sport....a sport that was never based on the amount of money someone had, or how much money could be extracted from an athlete.......this is not an "old. tired. argument". , it is about the soul of triathlon........Just say "I don't care" would seem to be more valid.... but there are so many people that are concerned with where this sport is going, especially the way the WTC is being run, and what it is doing to the sports future.

Not sorry that I care.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

I guess that meens your doing Whistler & not Penticton. Me too. Either way the economies that we're really helping are those of a couple of towns in BC, Canada. As a Canadian we appreciate the dollars coming in from the US, Germany or wherever.


Yes. And I'm more than happy to help the Canadian economy. You do supply us with the largest amount of crude oil. ;-)

If you really believe that, then why did you race in Penticton for so many years instead of racing at Coeur D'Alene?

And if you really believe that then surely it must apply to other countries as well and therefore you must be supportive of Penticton's choice to keep ownership and profits from its the race in the local community.

I was signed up for IMMT...prefer Whistler 100% of the time, canceled IMMT; got my measly $150 back as I consider it sunk cost...#IMWhistler!

Still not sold out yet and it's been almost 24 hours since openeing to everyone (after the the 2 days of priority registration). Interesating that 100 AG Kona slots is not as valuable as maybe they think.

Or, is it that it's too close to Kona?
Or, is it that the race is $725ish US?
Or, is the field limit 5000? (kidding, have no clue what they are allowing).
Or, are there way too many people absorbed by Challenge Penticton?
Or, is it that age groupers are being tested now, so 20% of IM athletes are not signing up for IMs anymore :)

Speculate...

No reasonable person faults WTC for wanting to make a profit.

But their business model requires the use of volunteer labour to do so. Volunteer labour that is in general drawn from the communities in which they operate and in greater proportion from supporters of and participants in the sport of triathlon. One would think that an organization that derives it profit from the good faith efforts of the communities where they function would demonstrate a reciprocal imperative to act in the best interest of those communities. And not just the business communities (which admittedly are helped by the influx of participants) but the well being of the sport of triathlon from which their business opportunity is ultimately derived. But then I'm Canadian and we are a bunch of socialists.

If WTC would rather pursue profit without the burden of the commensurate responsibility and expectation that their business model presents, the solution is simple: Make the volunteers paid staff. Until they do so, they operate under a social contract that commands they pursue more than just a pure profit motive.

Likewise, I know of 3 of us who were signed up for Tahoe and decided instead to race Whistler.

Last night I was telling my wife about all the hype around Whistler...I think she was half expecting me to say that I'm cancelling Tremblant and we're heading to Whistler. I think I would have done that, but I'm going to Vegas 2 weeks after Whistler. Tremblant is a 100 min drive from home.

Yes, distance was a big issue. It's only a 4 hr drive for us now (which is a huge plus with 2 kids).

Even with all other considerations, that's a hit to the pocket book. I don't do IMs a lot anyway because of the cost, but changing my mind, in this case, would seem like throwing away $600. When you include the amount of the new entry fee, you're basically paying $1300 for a race. Ouch.

If you really believe that, then why did you race in Penticton for so many years instead of racing at Coeur D'Alene?

And if you really believe that then surely it must apply to other countries as well and therefore you must be supportive of Penticton's choice to keep ownership and profits from its the race in the local community.


Because I don't make single-threaded decisions (as my entire paragraph implied). Btw, I started IM by racing CDA 2x ('04 and '06). I didn't enjoy it near as much as I enjoyed IMC in '05.

I can't support Penticton in something they never articulated to me as an athlete. Did Penticton ever provide evidence to us that Challenge was a better economic choice for them?

EDIT: From all of the inside information I received, my conclusion is that Penticton made a political decision, not an economic one.

For those who have been to Placid and Tremblant in the past two years or so (since Placid's roads have really fallen into disrepair since 2010) please rate the Whistler Road Conditions on a scale of 1 (Placid 2012) to 10 (Tremblant 2012).

Are normal wind conditions on the ride back to W from P similar to those that we expierenced on the return ride on 117 in Tremblant?

Still not sold out yet and it's been almost 24 hours since openeing to everyone (after the the 2 days of priority registration). Interesating that 100 AG Kona slots is not as valuable as maybe they think.

Or, is it that it's too close to Kona?
Or, is it that the race is $725ish US?
Or, is the field limit 5000? (kidding, have no clue what they are allowing).
Or, are there way too many people absorbed by Challenge Penticton?
Or, is it that age groupers are being tested now, so 20% of IM athletes are not signing up for IMs anymore :)

Speculate�

Timing is bad, imho. Most everyone felt they had to commit to an IM by October. Even I signed up for IMCDA because I felt I couldn't wait until mid October to find out about IMC. I still signed up for IMC but that's only because they chose Whistler. I wouldn't have signed up if they had chosen Kelowna.

Registration still open as of 5 minutes ago - I'm in for IMC #3!

We have good friends that just bought a place in Pemberton. They'll find out at a wedding this weekend to expect house guests in August... ;-)

Can you point me to one series (Hits, Challenge, Rev3) that pays volunteers?

Fine, let them pay volunteers, but nobody will race because the fees are too high.

Not a very good argument.

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

Serious question, curious to understand your stance on this, and perhaps you have access to facts that I do not -

How specifically might they have articulated their position to you? I mean, it is not like they had access to the WTC email contact list so they could send out a statement to previous IMC athletes. Though a single exhaustive explanation is hard to come by, there have been many articles in local news sources over the last few weeks outlining Penticton's position in bits and pieces. Just one example:
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/171246751.html

On the surface, given a sufficient number of athletes will commit (admittedly still a big question mark), it looks like a better deal for Penticton. What information have you been given that would suggest I should not trust the position as outlined in the local media? What do you know that the rest of us do not that leads you to conclude this is an act of politics rather than economics?

I think the late announcement is part of it, but also the addition of Ironman Tahoe- that addition took up a big chunk of late summer participants- I signed up for Whistler because I didn't get into Tahoe

None do. That is precisely my point. Thanks for conceding it.

These events (WTC, Rev3, Challenge, or any local RD) run their events based on the good will of the host communities, and the parties all have mutually aligned interests beyond maximizing the profit of the organizer. Each party needs the other. No social contract, no event.

- organizers want to keep costs low and make a profit
- athletes want low race fees and actions that benefit the sport
- local businesses and volunteers want some sort of benefits to their communities

None can be achieved with out the reciprocity of the others. Which means none can be maximized at the expense of any other. Within that arrangement there is room to both pursue profit and act in the best interest the athletes, host communities and the sport of triathlon.

Organization: Tremblant (they have Marc Roy....Whistler is yet to happen)

-----> Then technically, while I understand Marc Roy did a fantastic job @ Tremblant, you cannot give the win to Tremblant until Whistler happens!

Fred.

Fred, you are in the technology business. Customers always give the win to real product....at least until the vaporware materializes into reality. At this time next year, we can have a head to head comparison! Pretty sure Whistler will turn out to be a great event.

General Comment to this thread.....I hope I am totally wrong. I thought Whistler would sell out in 48 hours. I'd be really happy if it stayed open for 2 months. Not because I want to sign up, because I have been having a debate with WTC about the size of the triathlon market. I think there is room for both Whistler and Penticton....add to that Tahoe and CDA.

It might just take longer for everything to sell out. Perhaps even if Challenge Penticton was not added, and there was only IMC Penticton, maybe with the addition of Tahoe, IMC Penticton was going to take longer to sell out anyway. If I am not mistaken, there are around 700 athletes from California going to Penticton every year, and I am sure there are many from Oregon and Washington that had already opted for Tahoe over going back to Penticton and had registered for Tahoe even before Penticton switched to Challenge.


Dev

Not because I want to sign up, because I have been having a debate with WTC about the size of the triathlon market

Dev,

I think the growth that we have been experiencing for the past 5 - 10 years may be slowing down and we are reaching some form of a soft plateau. Time will tell, of course. Everything has it limits. Even within the whole sport of triathlon those that train for and do the Ironman distance events are not by any means a majority group - although because of media focus and amplitude, it seems like a lot more people actually do them.

The above point I am making is really hard to tell, because, more and more races ( and not just Ironman & 70.3's) keep getting added to the race calendars.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Course: Tremblant? - Maybe but lets wait and get some racer feedback after the event. The Whistler bike course will be hard to beat if the weather is good & not to windy. Whistler had the chance to have one of the all time great Ironman run courses if they would have gone single loop. Instead of a second out & back at Green Lake they could have used the lower half of the valley trail down to Creekside, returning up Alta Lake road, back into the valley trail & home. With 2 loops it will still be awsome, especially for spectators but oh, what could have been.

Fred I will be at Whistler ....can we give the win to Canada in general :)

I did help at Ironman Mont-Tremblant but cannot take all the credit, this was a team work with our great Race Director Dominique Piche as well as the amazing crew from WTC. We had many RD on site from other WTC events at Mont-Tremblant this year.

Most of them are the same crew that will be at Whistler making sure you have the best customer experience. This was the first chance for me to step away from timing & results to help out more on the logistical side of the event. The new RD has been selected at Whistler and will be announced shortly. The team in place will have a lot of experience....this event will sell out shortly BTW...

Serious question, curious to understand your stance on this, and perhaps you have access to facts that I do not -

How specifically might they have articulated their position to you? I mean, it is not like they had access to the WTC email contact list so they could send out a statement to previous IMC athletes. Though a single exhaustive explanation is hard to come by, there have been many articles in local news sources over the last few weeks outlining Penticton's position in bits and pieces. Just one example:
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/171246751.html

On the surface, given a sufficient number of athletes will commit (admittedly still a big question mark), it looks like a better deal for Penticton. What information have you been given that would suggest I should not trust the position as outlined in the local media? What do you know that the rest of us do not that leads you to conclude this is an act of politics rather than economics?


All fair questions�

I think they've done a much better job of getting a more detailed explanation out to people in the past few weeks but it was too late for me. I had already moved on. I suspect the timing of everything played a huge part. One thing that sticks out though... This all happened *very* quickly and I've rarely seen a quick decision made like this based on economics. Why couldn't this same article have come out just after the race if the decision was truly based on economics? There are many ways to inform athletes without getting an e-mail contact list.

Having said all that, like I stated above, I have some other inside information that says there was an "influencing factor" but that's all I'll say. If I said anything else then it would have the potential for others to look bad, blow out of proportion, etc, so I'm not willing to go there.

Anyway, at this point, I don't care. I've moved on...

AND .... Interestingly enough ... A quick search of the active registration reveals ... Zero participants from Penticton !!!
Not one Pentictoid is willing to cross over to the "dark side" to grab Kona Slot glory ??? Impressive ... Or the search engine was incorrect :-(

I believe that Tom Evans from Penticton said he would have to find another race outside of town to get a Kona slot.

Awesome! My AG... sigh... :-)

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http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction

I believe Tom said that he is racing 45-49 next year. If that is your age group, then on the plus side you get to race Tom Evans. On the down side you don't get to race Ken Glah and Pierre Lavoie who are moving up....depends on your perspective of whether you want fast guys in your age group or not. I find of like it when these guys set a really high bar, and the fact that guys are former pros and still live the sport enough to keep racing long after their fastest racing days.

I did not realise he is aging up. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind having former pro's in my AG. They can't stay pro forever. I just happen to witness Tom completely destroy the AG field at CDA this year. It is very humbling :)

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http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction

I thought he lived outside the city limits...

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Well, the OP may still win this one, but all the predictions of an instant sellout are now DEAD WRONG. I still don't believe it will be a sellout, especially if you set the bar at the same number they registered for this year's IM Canada.

For the first time ever I couldn't be more happy to be wrong. ;-) That would be awesome if it doesn't sell out. The less, the better.

I hear you loud and clear. A field of 1500-2000 tops is the sweet spot. That's enough people to create a lot of race mojo, but no so many that you have an inherent draft fest. Plus, races that don't sellout give people options if plans don't work out.

You would have been far better served as a customer if you'd signed up for Challenge Penticton instead. They have a far better refund policy.

I, for one, just simply do not understand the continued fascination with WTC's Ironman branded races for the vast majority of people. If you have a legitimate shot at a Kona slot, it makes sense but otherwise you're paying a premium for Mike Riley.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Agreed, but with 100 slots....I better have a shot...if not I'm done with the IM distance!

I live in NYC, but have a part time home in Whistler, absolutely love the place and everything about it.

I understand. Good luck on the race and chase.

I'll be doing my first full distance race in several years next year ... in Penticton. I signed up for it just because it was a Challenge race. I'm so over WTC it's not funny. But even I have to admit the Kona race is fun. Enjoy it.

EDIT: Anyone know if Challenge has drug testing? After all I'll be in KM's age group. ;)

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

If you look at the entrants city by city on active.com they are probably well past the 2000 mark. I wonder if Whistler has pushed for a larger field in that they have allot more hotel accommodation than Penticton.

If challenge is sanctioned via tribc it will for pros but likely not for AG. CCES can just show up at any sanctioned race and test.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I just went to the IMC registration page and clicked on the 'conform your registered' link and added city and province and note that Vancouver, North Vancouver, West Vancouver, Seattle and Toronto have ~350 total registrants. I assume if you spent enough time listing larger cities you could guess how many registrants there are currently (and compare to prior years).

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ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt

I checked out Calgary and Edmonton, over 100 there. Considering Challenge is closer that's a bit. I suspect Whistler will have more from Asia than Penticton did while Challenge will draw more Euros in than before.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I guess anyone who said "immediately" lost. I suppose November is still a possibility, but the hype has already died down.

Meanwhile, in the non-Slowtwitch world: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...13/muddy-road-races/

WTC is a WADA signatory and I would bet without actually checking, that Challenge is too.

I was commenting about challenge.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Challenge is not "yet".......it is in the works, but so far their races are held under the Local/National Tri Fed rules as sanctioned races.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

Although the whistler course is similar in vert to the old IMC, I think the structure (bigger hill at the start) and like you say a few less people will help this be a cleaner race.

At least thats what I'm hoping, I wasn't really to keen on the whistler bid initially because I thought it would be an easier bike. Now that it's in the "moderate" category with some hills at the start to break things up I am hopeful of a "cleaner" race, signed up last week!!

They dont need to sign wada if they sanction with an NF, the code os automatic

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

is it sold out yet?

http://www.active.com/...amp;EVENT_ID=2054569

looks.open to.me

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Great to hear that it is still open. Is IMCDA sold out? Looks like with IMTahoe, the old IMC would have also sold out a bit less quick. Really nice to see that we can take our "time" to sign up (it may only be 2 weeks but better than 2 hours).

For sure.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I also think that after the first IMTahoe is run, that race will take a lot longer to sell out. People are underestimating the level of difficulty involved doing an IM at 6400 feet above sea level. Next year, Whistler probably sells out in a few days, but Tahoe stays open for 6 months.

Whistler in July will also help that too.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

No kidding. 6400ft is not very comfie and I live at 4000ft. People from sea level are going to be in for a big surprise.

Agreed... It varies from 3500-4000 in town here and sea level folks suck wind....

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

It helps if you arrive 2 - 3 weeks before the race and get acclimatized. Good for the hotels too. You can ride some of the climbs to see how the light air affects you HR & breathing. I find I have to relax a bit more swimming and scale back my pace on the bike & run.

Bad for my wallet.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I gotta ask..? Never heard of it?

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_________________________________________________

Alberta is a province... so I won the provincial champs this year... it would be loke winning your state championships.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

congrats

Even when I go to swim in Calgary (at 4000 feet) big diff in my 100m splits compared to sea level. Tahoe is going to hurt a lots and then it will stay open for a long time afterwards in 2013, because Whistler and IMCDA will be sold out by the time Tahoe opens for registration.

Dude, I live in AB, but thanks for the lesson.. Who's race was it? MSC? Just sounds 'made up'... Google shows nothing.

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Lake Chaparral Triathlon was the Alberta Olympic Distance Provincial Championships. I did not race there, but did hear about the race. I believe it also has spots for Age Group World Championships.

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But, he said I was an Ironman.

ATA pulls past events from the calender. MSC hosted at Chapparl for Oly and Banff Tri hosted sprint. LD is usually GWN or Chinook.

https://mobile.twitter.com/...438572236800/photo/1

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

UBC would suffer a little extra when they raced us.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

http://www.triathlon.ab.ca/...id=99&Itemid=107

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I guess the Calender stayed up this year that link was not the main Calender, rather it was in the "Athletes" section

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

irregardless, impressive swim time! Now, I'm seeking out the 2nd place finisher - he doesn't live that far from me!

^this.

Neither race is sold out right now. I'm racing Penticton next year (my 1st 140.6) and praying that IMC survives long enough that I make it to that race (2016/17???) Hoping to make Wanaka in 2014 - I'm not into racing the Hawaiian tourist trap, ever - I'm an age grouper and smart enough to have accepted that and the fact that "Ironman" is nothing more than a "brand".

From Chapparal? Dude works at the power plant out in Hana.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Tourist town aside, I have to say that the experience of racing and spectating Kona is amazing--whether you like or dislike the WTC brand. You might change your mind after you race your first 140.6.

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

I see the IMC website has new course maps up now but they still show bikes going different directions coming out of T1 on the swim & bike map. The bike map is correct.

Hoping to make Wanaka in 2014 - I'm not into racing the Hawaiian tourist trap, ever - I'm an age grouper and smart enough to have accepted that and the fact that "Ironman" is nothing more than a "brand".


I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding why Ironman means different things to different people (AGer or not). So, apparently you're not smart enough because what you state is not a fact. Just because it's nothing more than a brand to you doesn't mean it's nothing more than a brand to everyone. And since you've obviously never raced Kona, how do you know it's like "racing the Hawaiian tourist trap"?

Easy decision. MT.

Thanks for your post. Kona is a ton more than just a tourist trip. Obviously the person who posted that has some of the animosity we often see here on ST. But he also claimed he is "smart enough",but. To me I don't think it requires smarts to understand why Kona is good or not.

It seems to me that in general those who have been fortunate enough to race there value the experience, while many who have not either don't have that view or can't make the leap of faith that others may like it. It is totally understandable that wihr various WTC shenanigans worldwide but it is hard to believe that overall the Kona experience really can be great trip.

I think this all pretty much seals the fate on any other IM in North America. It will certainly sell out eventually, but the myth of thousands of ironman hopefuls shut out by immediate sell outs is over. We now pretty much know the size of the market.

And that is a GOOD thing. I don't mind being beaten to the finish line by a faster racer but I don't like being beaten to the sign up by a faster keyboarder.

Do we? Looking through the list of events at ironman.com there are only three NA races still open: Texas, Louisville, and Whistler. It's true that some races aren't selling out instantly, but NY did, Tahoe did, I think Madison sold out pretty quick. IMC did sell out last year but it took a few days. And after they sell out WTC continues to sell charity slots at twice the entry price. [pink]imagine if they had relays[/pink]

I don't know what WTC considers as a break even point, but it sure looks like they could keep adding events and keep getting participants. Ultimately the limiting factor is time, since the event needs to be on a weekend, between June and Sept. Most of those days are already taken, many have been taken twice.

And don't forget that in addition to the 140.6 events WTC is putting on and ever growing number of 70.3s, many of which will sell out.

I'm pretty sure WTC could add another event on the West Coast, San Diego is an obvious choice, but Portland would be a good spot if there is a break in the weather. The East Coast could probably support 4 more events.

Actually what he said is a fact. Ironman is just a brand. If you want to attach other meaning to to it, then go right ahead, there's not a thing wrong with that and you'll make the owners of WTC rather happy. Just be aware that what you've attached to the Ironman brand is your doing and neither the doing of somebody else nor anything that is inherent in the IM product.

They are just a brand of races and the athlete experience doesn't justify the mystique that some people have attached to it. They have competition that's hungrier, friendlier and that imo provides a better value for your money in many cases. So go get Mike Riley to say you're an Ironman. I hope it's worth the premium.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

_________

Brands get recognized because they provide what many feel is superior product and service .... and consumers agree readily to pay more in many cases because they get what they want. I think Starbucks coffee falls into that category as well ;-)

Dave

I think you nailed it. I had a friend that had his own furnace install company. For fun I went out with him on a service call one evening. We were heading into one of the more affluent parts of town. He said typically when going there most contractors tack on another 10 to 15%, because those people expect to pay more. They associate higher costs with quality, whether they actually receive quality service or not. In fact that night he was snickering, because he was going in to fix a different contractors screw up.

I don't disagree at all. I personally avoid Starbucks out here unless I have visitors who insist on meeting me there (I'd rather go to Menehune's at the pier) or if I'm on a ride out to the resorts.

For the record I was thinking of the Rev3 races in comparison to WTC's IM brand not Challenge. I've been to the Rev3's but only watched a Challenge race.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Just replying to this thread......does anyone know how close this is to selling out? Marc Roy are you reading?

_____

I don't know how close it is ... hopefully Marc Roy will tell us.
I thought it would fill rapidly as its a great site ..... but IMTahoe took a lot of west coast US people that would have done IMC otherwise and IMMT no doubt pulled a lot of Canada. By my recollection, the old IMC site stayed open online for quite a while before it filled last year. It will fill soon .. just not as quickly as we thought! I planned on signing up myself .... but will have to wait til 2014 due to my schedule(bummer!)

Dave

I personally don't think it will sell out, I think a lot of US people (and ironman hardcores) on the Westcoast will go down but people around (BC) have either suck with Penticton or sign up for Coeur D'alene. (which is sold out, earlier then normal...I think/but not sure).

They did a nice job of dressing it up with the 100 spots and money for the pros, which might make it a more competitive race, more so then a bucket list race for people around BC.


I'm just going off what I'm hearing, nothing really factual.

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http://www.nathanveldhoen.com
http://twitter.com/NateVeldhoen

Actually what he said is a fact. Ironman is just a brand. If you want to attach other meaning to to it, then go right ahead, there's not a thing wrong with that and you'll make the owners of WTC rather happy. Just be aware that what you've attached to the Ironman brand is your doing and neither the doing of somebody else nor anything that is inherent in the IM product.

They are just a brand of races and the athlete experience doesn't justify the mystique that some people have attached to it. They have competition that's hungrier, friendlier and that imo provides a better value for your money in many cases. So go get Mike Riley to say you're an Ironman. I hope it's worth the premium.


Wow, the hypocrisy in your statements above is amazing. People like you just don't get it. To justify your own opinion, as you clearly stated in your second paragraph, you have to chastise those of us who feel WTC is offering a perfectly good experience with the potential reward of going to Kona. You have no proof that Challenge will offer a better experience. You only have an opinion just like I have an opinion. Get over yourself and stop making ridiculous claims that your opinion is somehow so special and unique that it can only be identified as a fact.

Pretty sure IMCDA was a slower sell out then past years. Not by much, though.

What will be interesting is when the ironmans in Florida and Arizona sell out instantly....which will once again prove that we triathletes want draft fest races where we can brag about fast times.....and Whistler with 8000 feet of climbing on the bike will remain open

and Whistler with 8000 feet of climbing on the bike will remain open


Is it really 8k feet of climbing? I saw a profile somewhere (can't seem to find it right now) that said it was somewhere around 4.4k feet of climbing. The profile looked official from the web site but I don't see it up there at the moment.

Here it is:

http://www.ironman.com/...b81211e93bc917e.ashx

Or, maybe I sign up for a race I can drive to and not have to worry about international travel.............

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Ouch! Last 35Km is uphill. That will make for interesting bike strategy.

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Peter Solymosi
The Tri Bike Fit Studio
Vernon, BC

someone else posted this link which indicates 8,000 + feet of elevation gain

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1806049

I would be interestedin hearing other people's thoughts on the reasons for the differences between the official profile you referenced and the profile as indicated in the above link.

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Grant

Ok. All you have to do is a rough estimate walk thru of the different low and high elevation points on this profile and there's no way it adds up to 8k feet of climbing. I just did it and my rough estimate would be between 4 and 5k feet.

Actually last 35K is about 15K of climbing and then 20K of headwind.

I've ridden up Callaghan and also to Pemberton several times and no way there is 8000ft of climbing. 4 -5 sounds about right.

What I object to is people who think that the WTC product is inherently better. There's nothing better about it except that which is attached to it by the racer. Second, Kona is just a race. There's nothing magical about it except you can't just sign up for it. It's not a true world championship race. And finally, personally I have no clue about Challenge other than what a few people have told me. I was actually referring to the Rev3 product when I said there was a friendlier organization.

If you like WTC, by all means race their races. But you're not getting an intrinsically superior product. And good luck in that Kona chase in 2013. Seriously.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Which course map is correct? The swim map indicates leaving T1 in one direction while the bike map indicates leaving T1 in the opposite direction.

drop them a note and ask. I looked at the maps you're talking about and it would seem be rather contradictory North does not equal south. They might actually answer but at the very least they'd change the maps!

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

The WTC is contracting in Europe, 1x full, 2x halfs, are gone next year, Aisa is a wtc desert, they have now pulled the asia pacific 70.3 championship from Phuket, and moved it to NZ, in North America IM St George is now a70.3, IMNY is gone.....IM in San Diego ?...you would think that would be a slam dunk but it has never happened, and never will (politics, and course problems), and now Challenge has arrived in North America, with less demands placed on host cities (in fact the cites have a huge say in what happens), decision time is coming for the WTC, they are near to saturation point especially in the 140.6 market...competitors are moving in (rev3 & Hits in addition to Challenge) all offering promises of a better athlete experience.......Can WTC change, do they think they need to change ?......a lot of people think they have already jumped the shark, there is certainly more criticism of WTC and their events than ever before.......time will tell, but all is not "fine" in the WTC world.....Still have a lot of great events, still have Kona, but this is a corporation that needs to make serious money for its investors, and like most business things can go sour in a real hurry if you lose track of what your customers actually want.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

is whistler sold out yet?

Been on the road traveling for the last 16 hours....so did it sell out while I was out of internet communication.

OK....other answers for this thread...I too don't believe that it is 8000 feet total. I have ridden back from Pemberton to Whistler and unless they put T2 at the top of the Whistler ski hill, I'd be suprised if the entire course adds up to more than 6000. I just used the 8000 statement because that is what someone had posted in this thread! In any case, the course should be selective enough that every athlete gets the result they are trained for.

For the person saying that they prefer to drive to a race, fully understandable, but if you can drive to Arizona, there is a good chance that you probably drive to St. George and St. George was not exactly selling out. As for "international travel" to Canada, I thought that the US had already annexed Canada as the 51st state and was exploiting us for our raw materials before China takes this place over totally. In any case, flying to Canada is really not any different that flying to anywhere in the US. You just have to show your passport once and that's it. Once you are hear in Canada, you don't even need to use Canadian money, just use your credit card. I can think of few places that don't take credit card (I do the opposite when I go to the US and never use cash).

I asked them via email and they said the bike map is correct. I don't know why they won't correct the swim map.

I thought that the US had already annexed Canada as the 51st state and was exploiting us for our raw materials before China takes this place over totally
_______

That's funny .... we couldn't afford to annex you to the US because we're BROKE ...maybe Canada wants to annex us as a new province before China owns us. The US isn't all that bad ... we've got lots of hockey teams!

Dave:-)

still open. and here is a link ST to register if you want.

http://www.ironman.com/...r.aspx#axzz2AnRdsB4y

Reading that bike profile, shit I might attend now. Right up my alley.

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@rhyspencer

don't bring up hockey to Canadians right now LOL

"Sharkgu" posted a good thread about the whistler course from his garmin data. He said around 4500 feet or similar to the old IMC, and about 1000 feet less than IM CDA. What I would call an average or moderate course. I lived in whistler for 8 years although I haven't rode the new callahan hill it's only about 1000 feet of climbing (a good climb but doesn't add great deal to the overall).

I don't think this is even close to 5000 feet but I guess I'll have to wait until spring to find out (or Strava it in my car and really piss some people off ;)

The good thing about this course is that the bigger hill comes early to space people out, I agree that this course is selective early and there fore should be a little bit "cleaner" than the old IMC

I signed up this morning with my brother in law. Still open as far as I know. Who knows where they will cap it.

Why do you keep trying to make a fact out of something that is clearly just an opinion? Kona isn't a true world championship? Define "true." Kona is just a race (in your mind). Rev3 is a friendlier org (in your mind). These are opinions, not facts.

You need to get over the *fact* that there are people out there who are perfectly content with what WTC has offer today. I have no problem with the people out there who are perfectly content with what Challenge or Rev3 have to offer them. Great!! Everyone is happy. Why do you have to belittle others because they're happy with choices you disagree with?

Kona is more like a league championship. Kind of like MLB/NBA or NFL chamions declaring themsleves world champions when they are really league champions. A real world championship would mean that anyone who can perform at a certain standard on a certified course should be able to compete.

Kona is more like a league championship. Kind of like MLB/NBA or NFL chamions declaring themsleves world champions when they are really league champions. A real world championship would mean that anyone who can perform at a certain standard on a certified course should be able to compete.


Fair enough. But let's be realistic here� we're talking about IM. It's not a big sport. I think what we have in place today, given the size of the sport and how fast it's growing, is pretty damn good. Could it be better? No doubt. It can always be better. I think the addition of Rev3, Challenge and hopefully some others, maybe we'll get there one day.

I've done 16 IMs. I've been pretty consistent at getting top 10 in my AG but have never been top 50 in my AG at Kona (5x). Clearly the talent at Kona is pretty damn exceptional.

Does anyone actually know how close we are to a sellout?

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_________________________________________________________________
Supported by Compressport Canada | F2C Nutrition | Element | Argon 18 | 4iiii Innovations | Read my Blog

Well that's even worse than having conflicting maps up. You'd think they'd at least put a simple note up with the correct information on it even if they didn't want to change the T1 exit depiction on the swim map.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

I agree. Calling it a world championship doesn't make it so. Then again it is called "The Ironman World Championship." Maybe critical reading skills are need on my part. ;)

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

OK, here's the certain standard for you......show up to any of 30 Ironman races around the world, finish 1st or 2nd in your AG and you get to race for the world championship. Seems pretty legit to me...............

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

depends upon what your definition of Ironman is. Seriously. If you define "Ironman" , in reference to triathlon events, as a brand name then you can easily argue that the race is legitimately an Ironman (brand) World Championship. If, on the other hand, you think of any 140.6 race as an Ironman race regardless of who puts it on then it's not. It's a Ironman Brand Championship race and nothing else. I'm not trying to split hairs nor being derogatory towards the Kona race, I happened to have enjoyed my races here (for the most part).

And be any of that as it may, Ironman Canada (whistler) will have slots. Challenge Penticton will not. And neither will sell out anytime soon.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

True world championship has NF' s selecting teams/athletes.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

until hawaii find a way to not send 1000 americain at the ''world championship'', it wont be a legit one. At least for the age group ranking. it s simply a usa race and they self proclaim world championship. The usa does this a lot... it s always hillarious to hear baseball player been ''world champion'' and super bowl been the world championship of football when only one freaking country take part in it!!!!!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

TriTrev wrote:

The WTC is contracting in Europe, 1x full, 2x halfs, are gone next year,

Sure, and how many do they still have? How many of those sell out? The answer is that they currently have 11 HIM and 8 full distance, 4 of which have already sold out. Challenge? How many of their events sell out? Scrolling through their web page shows only 11 events in total, many with barely 1000 participants.

TriTrev wrote:

isa is a wtc desert, they have now pulled the asia pacific 70.3 championship from Phuket, and moved it to NZ,

So? They've got 10 HIM on their website, and their 5 full distance have one in NZ and the rest in Australia. Didn't Challenge have a race in Australia, what ever happened to that? Who else has races in Asia? Maybe some day Challenge will try in Thailand.

TriTrev wrote:

n North America IM St George is now a70.3, IMNY is gone.....

Again, so what? And what is wrong with your keyboard.........are you on your period.........? If you are trying to write an ellipsis you just need three dots. WTC still has 13 full distance races in NA, Challenge has yet to put on 1. Why is that? Hey, maybe Challenge can try to run a race in St George, and use their super magic abilities to change the weather.

TriTrev wrote:

IM in San Diego ?...you would think that would be a slam dunk but it has never happened, and never will (politics, and course problems), and now Challenge has arrived in North America,

Have they? IMC sold out every year for how many of the past years. Challenge Penticton barely has 1000 participants and that was before WTC announced Whistler.

Do you mean from fewer participants?

They can make all kinds of promises, but it seems no one cares. HITS races don't sell out either. If "better athlete experience" was important you'd think those races would be more popular. And again, you bring up this absurd notion of market saturation, which seems to be based on not selling out. If the new IMC has 2900 participants instead of 3000 is that a failure? If the market was so close to saturation that this tipped the balance, why would Challenge show up in an already tapped out market? Why not expand into Asia, Africa, or South America?

Jumped the shark? Are they a low budget tv show or an organization hosting races? I'm glad you've found a little cause to rally against, but frankly it doesn't matter how many losers on the internet like to bitch and moan. Thousands of people are willing to fork over $700 or more for Ironman branded races, Challenge can't say the same thing, at most they might get 1000--even with relays. Challenge doesn't have people criticizing them because no one gives a shit.


Looks like they have a pretty firm grasp on what customers want and continue to provide it. Also looks like they don't give a shit about winy little bitches that aren't going to participate in their races. If you want wave starts, relays, and someone to hold your hand going up a hill don't bother with Ironman, someone else is willing to take your spot.

The Challenge Race was in cairns. WTC bought the producer of that race, most likely to try and squash the attempt to expand into Australia. The fact of the matter is, Asia is a wasteland for WTC's full distance races these days. Last i checked Australia and NZ were not part of Asia. Travel wise it's worse for most residents of Asia than telling someone on the East Coast of the United States that there are WTC full distance races in Europe, go there.

Only time will tell whether the Challenge foray into North America is successful. But as for numbers you can spout out all you want but nobody knows just where either of those races are in relation to total capacity. And neither will sell out for quite some time.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Aquaman, you really need to grow up....really "winy little bitches" ?....and who said I wouldn't particpate in one of their races?....obviously you are making things up, I've finished 4 WTC races so far, and entered one ynext year

My post was factual......yours made entirely from your arse....try pulling your head out next time before you type.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

So you cannot delete this crap !

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen

We'll get a better picture of IMC vs Challenge in 2014 and 15 when. Whistler moves to its new date in July. Lots of Canadians like having the whole summer to train outside for a 140.6.

For 2013 if Challenge wants to sell more slots they need to negotiate better accommodation pricing than IMC.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Aqua-man you sound like an Aqua child........
To me it's not what brand but rather the city and surrounding area that makes the race.
In our case it's "Penticton & Area" that have made IMC; the surroundings & what it has to offer in entertainment, food, amenities & the volunteers that really care that the athlete has a good race.
I speculate WTC recognized this long ago and started homogenizing the IM races.
This effectively removed some of the local flavour & individuality of events, nothing new it's what franchises do.

Penticton has a long history with 140.6 and wanted more than WTC was willing to offer, no big deal really. Rather living a lie why not divorce and move on?

Penticton and area will once again start something new and once more foster an event that many think will never amount to a hill of beans.
The volunteers, race office etc know how to stage a 140.6 and our collective brains were not sucked out with the divorce.

Whistler is a world class place and knows how to stage world class events no doubt it was a great & right choice for the WTC.
With any luck western Canada will have two events that others will be judged by.

Belittling the Challenge is childish at best.

Watching Kona this year I felt saddened that Penticton is no longer part of the IM but Penticton & area will move on and do what we've been doing for three decades.
And just like the Boston or NY Marathons many folks will want to come to Penticton and race an iconic course.

Every corporation has room to improve WTC included. TriTrev had some valid points.
I thought he expressed them in a constructive way.

Gosh I hate to unhijack the thread, but now that its well into November, and we still have not had the Sportstats "Its selling out soon" (which generally means in about a week or two), what is the prediction? And what I would like to know from anyone else who DOES sign up from this date forward...in all seriousness...is what took you? Why did you wait? Were you always planning on doing it, but did not see the need to sign up early? Did you suddenly become inspired? Bored? What triggered it?

I think part of the WTC business model has always been to create instantaneous demand. Get people to sign up immediately when emotions run high. If you give people time to think about it, passions cool, and decisions change. This could hurt them on the margins. Not huge, but it could cost some entries. I speak from personal experience. My second and third IM races were definately due to "caught up in the moment" moments. My decision to do no more is based, in part, on rational deliberation, removed from the excitement of the event. I do not go to IM, soI no longer want to do IM. Best way to break an addiction.

So, does IMC sell out at all? If not....what?

Is it really that big of a deal? You guys are coming off as overly sensitive, imho. 19 of the 27 IMs out outside the US. I'm sorry but what more do you want from such a small sport?

"but now that its well into November, and we still have not had the Sportstats "Its selling out soon" (which generally means in about a week or two), what is the prediction? "

Actually we did get that from Sportstats, on Oct 19, back at the top of page 5.

So based on that, I'll stick with my November prediction, although like you I'm curious why someone would have waited until now to sign up, and I don't expect there are many people still waiting...

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"No more hurting people - Peace"

if me saying that there is something wrong about 1000 usa participant in a 2000-2500ish field for a world championship is overly sensistive...then yes, i m !!!!

:)

.

.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

My bad...missed the sportstats 10/19 call.

Back to the OP question, WTC announced that there are 100 general entry slots available for the new Ironman Canada. Based on that I'll say within a week :)

https://twitter.com/...s/265462377137467392

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

That will motivate people to make a decision and sell out soon. Selling now will drive others to Challenge maybe not a stampede but a steady trickle until race day.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I don't know. I would think that most people who can take a shot at Kona would have 2013 planned well in advance and are already signed up for their qualifying race, be it IMC or something else. I do agree though it will sell out soon. Lots of good word of mouth going around.

_______

Once IMCanada is sold out .... along with IMMT, IMTahoe, IMCDA and any other reasonably accessible IM event .... a few who were born under rocks may stumble into CP.
Why do we have to talk about CP on the IMC thread .... can't CP people post on a CP thread?????

Dave

See page 1-8 lots of banter. Lots of fence sitting around here and I figure lots of folks will pull the trigger later after they see how winter training goes.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

By the spring it will likely be to late and those sitting on the fence will have to divert to (I'm sorry Dave) CP.

WTC says there are only 100 slots left. Kudos to the OP who is clairvoyant!

_____

No one who waits until spring has ever had much choice ..... what have you been signing up for in the spring????? Well, OK you could do IMStLouis or IMTexas(maybe) .... but not much else unless you really like loneliness in your events ;-)

Dave

I agree, very little choice in "Ironman" events but CP will not sell out so there's always that.

Challenge Penticton = the fat girl at the end of the bar at 2:30AM

Douche comment of the evening

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Perhaps people were sitting in the bar waiting for a supermodel to walk in past midnight. As triathletes love to draft to T2, I believe the Ironman Florida supermodel just walked in and a hoard of guys jumped all over each other to be the first to go home with her in under a minute.

Meanwhile, the girls whose qualities are not so superficial are still in the bar (Whistler and Penticton) and no doubt those who go home with them will have very satsifying experiences, while the guys that went with the Ironman Florida supermodel will whine and complain about all the drafting and how high maintenance that choice ended up being.

OK, carry on with this thread.

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Supermodels tend to just lie there thinking they are so special that they just need to show up while fat chicks do as much as they can to please in order to have them coming back for more..


This has been tried and tested over time...
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I was going to say the only thing worth mentioning that the guys who took home the super model would get is a burning sensation when they pee =).

I've never done, or heard much about IMF... why is it so popular? I hear the course is just flat and boring, and that heat must suck. Penticton is a seriously magical place in the summer, and the bike course is one of the best rides out there. Whistler, I'm sure, will have an equal sense of epic-ness about it. What the heck does Florida offer? Aside from great drafting opportunities?

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Given that we a dealing with human nature, many derive self actualization based on validation from others. Key to this is bragging rights and getting praise from peers rather than deriving satisfaction from personal metrics...as such, there are more bragging rights associated with the bagging of the supermodel in the aforementioned bar and there are more bragging rights associated with a fast time with a tow to T2. So, no surprise that guys are jumping all over themselves to grab the supermodel and the IM Florida ticket in under 1 minute.

At least if we got to talk philosophy with Plato or Aristotle, they might converge towards similar conclusions!

_________________
I keep having to remind myself we're on the IM Canada thread because here we go with all the CP guys again!
The reality is for those of us who have moved on .... is that Penticton is only magical in the minds of a few who haven't moved on and those who live there. That's fine by me if you feel that .... but you can see most are showing they don't agree with you.
Hard as it is for WTC haters, they have many fine races that sell out quickly for many reasons ... and always have. IMAZ will sell out quickly in 2 weeks as well .... you need to pay attention to market reality rather than just being derisive of those who don't agree with you.
Let me say again after doing the moved on from IMC course in Penticton many times that it really isn't that special by itself ... NO, Penticton is not magical compared to many other WTC sites and the bike course is just like many others ... frankly many others are better. You really ought to try some of these other races rather than being so one dimensional .... it might be an eye opener for you. I've done IMF twice and I hate drafting .... but its a fun course and has great and inexpensive accomodations... plus it's easy to get to and fun for family.
CP is learning some reality already with a lot more to come .... I have moved on .... you guys need to open your eyes.

Dave

I think you missed the boat completely. I'm not clinging to some old IMC fantasy at all. I never did the old IMC (signed up for the new one), or a challenge race, or IMF... or IMAZ for that matter. I've been to the Okanagan a lot, almost every summer, and done a ton of workouts on the course, and am very familiar with it. I was simply wondering what makes those other races so much more popular. From word of mouth from people who have done those races, which is all I have to go on, I have given the advantage on the course itself to Penticton (and probably Whistler too... challenging, beautiful, one loop bike etc). I was simply wondering what is it about IMF that draws so many people. I've never heard someone come back from either of those races saying things like "that was the best community support I've ever experienced" or "I absolutely fell in love with that area" or something. So what's the draw? Easier to find accommodation? More Kona slots or better time of year to qualify? People don't like hills? I'm honestly curious.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Whistler now sold out per Ironman posts on Twitter and FB this morning.

Under 3 weeks to sell out, not bad for a new race venue. I'm sure that will help numbers for the CP race now, hope they also get a decent field registered for the race.

Does anyone know how many entrants?

Well, you were half right.

Speed. I did IMC in August, and a bunch of my friends just did IMFL on the weekend. Their bike splits were insanely fast, my guess is the course is about 45min faster than IMC or IMOO. So after they finished I was pretty close to signing up to see how fast I could go on that course. IMC is a very challenging course and requires quite a bit of discipline to save enough for Yellow Lake. The challenging part of Florida is having to stay aero for the entire 180km.


The time of year also plays a huge part. People in the northern US need May-Sept to train, making IMoo and IMFL easier events to work into the schedule, while still allowing for summer races. IMC in August meant I could only race in June and July. An IM any early means the bulk of your training will be inside.

We'll probably see a registration list in a couple of weeks. I would assume it's the same as usual (around 2800).