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Re: Silca tire pressure calculator beta [Tom A.]
Tom A. wrote:
doctorSpoc wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
doctorSpoc wrote:
Tom A. wrote:


I was only asked to review and comment on the article AFTER all of the testing was done (as was Josh).

That said, one thing that probably didn't make it into the article which Josh had pointed out, is that although the Wheel Energy test rig does have a bit of damping inherent in the load application (due to the use of an air cylinder), the amount of damping supplied is basically an order of magnitude lower than what would represent the damping of a human body. This will have a pretty large effect on the absolute breakpoint pressure for a given roughness, load, and speed.

So, although they appear to have found a breakpoint pressure with the rig, that still doesn't really give any actionable information...

I expressed my opinion about the necessity of "rough surface" testing at the time as well...but, I'm pretty sure the VN folks are of the opinion that it's hard to convince people without having something like this, for many of the same reasons I pointed out a year ago (i.e. lack of understanding of the loss properties of tires by the consumer).


Oh... ok..

I had the same suspicions as you state here..
  1. does that air cylinder REALLY add hysteresis in remotely same range as a human body? thought, not likely, but didn't really have details on that.
  2. The values surfaced really don't have any absolute value anyone should take and use to set up their actual tire pressure.. that those breakpoint pressures likely can't be taken at face values..
BUT... that being said... what I found it interesting is that it does let us do something that's hard to do otherwise.. set all variables constant and see if tire construction itself has inherent characteristics that can affect break point pressure and this testing would seem to indicate... YES, it does... and seems that it's NOT necessarily correlated directly with crr.

So it's not just a matter of rider weight, tire size, surface roughness... seems the specific tire construction also matter in picking optimal tire pressure.. that is something new... no? Not sure they recognizes that as something new in the article.. wasn't highlighted, but a question I was asking earlier and seems we have at least a preliminary answer.. and I think the popular assumption was that the tire construction didn't matter WAS just directly correlated with crr.. but this testing would seem to indicate that is not be the case.


Right...but are you trying to find the tire with the best Crr, or looking for which has the highest (or lowest) breakpoint pressure?

In other words, let's say you have 2 tires and one is 1W per tire faster, but the other has a breakpoint pressure 5 psi higher (even though BOTH breakpoint pressures are most likely well above typical pressures you'd run on surfaces where breakpoint is a factor)?

I don't know about you, but I'd still pick the one with the lower Crr...


I would of course pick the tire with the lowest crr...

BUT then to get the best performance out of those tires I want to know what pressure to pump them up to... the initial subject of this thread actually! ...having the knowledge that the breakpoint pressure and optimal tire pressure is not a function of crr, not a function of tire size means using those criteria to guide you could lead to wrong answer on optimal tire pressure.. and that's good to know!

example the Silca tire pressure calculator does not take tire construction into account (understand would not be reasonable to do that) so this could lead to inconsistent, error prone results.. correct?

So reveals an inconvenient truth... takes us back a few steps in terms of convenience unfortunately... that the only accurate way to determine optimal tire pressure is field study.. with the specific tires you want to use.


Just remember that the Silca calculator isn't giving you the breakpoint pressure...just giving you the overall best pressure for your inputs, which I'm fairly certain is going to be quite a bit under any breakpoint pressure for those same conditions, because: " 'Tis far better to err on the side of too little, rather than too much, pressure" ;-)


True enough... after doing some of my own field test I've found that Josh's advice that he gave as a guest on a YouTube channel was the best technique I have found to find optimal pressure... paraphrasing... 'go as low as it takes so ride feels "smooth".. then go up if it handling feels wonky'

But as a bit of a biking science wonk... I find this finding in this testing really cool...

Found link (@10:44)

Last edited by: doctorSpoc: Oct 4, 21 18:17

Edit Log:

  • Post edited by doctorSpoc (Cloudburst Summit) on Oct 4, 21 18:13
  • Post edited by doctorSpoc (Cloudburst Summit) on Oct 4, 21 18:14
  • Post edited by doctorSpoc (Cloudburst Summit) on Oct 4, 21 18:16
  • Post edited by doctorSpoc (Cloudburst Summit) on Oct 4, 21 18:17