Herbert wrote:
Someone earlier today asked me how much cheating there is in IRONMAN racing and I suggested the following numbers. - At least 10% of all age groupers in IRONMAN dope
- At least 40% of all age groupers in IRONMAN draft willingly regularly
- At least 5% of all age groupers in IRONMAN cheat otherwise
These numbers however are not mutually exclusive.
What say you?
Those original numbers are interesting. Where did they come from?
I do love this conversation-it needs to be had.
TheStroBro wrote:
fulla wrote:
I think what strobro is getting at is that whether or not you are drafting within the rules can sometimes be a judgement call, ie you judge you are outside of the draft zone but you aren't. Blatant riding on someone's wheel is something different. When you apply the issue of judgement to other areas of 'cheating' it is much less murky. ie you either complete the course or you've cut it.That's definitely part of it.
My point here overall is that cheating leads to banishment/suspension.
In rugby which I lean on all the time, but same you can look at other sports as well. We have the Laws of the Game/Rules. Laws talk about what is allowed during those 80 minutes of play.
Then you have the regulations. Regulations talk about a variety of things, PEDs is one of them. Another is qualification for your international team by residence, ancestry, or birthright etc.
Usage of PEDs/EPO, altering others equipment would lead to banishment.
Referees/Race Officials apply the laws of the game/rules of the race and you receive a penalty, serve penalty and continue.
Judicial Panels rule on violations of the regulations.
Making Triathlon like golf, does the WTC have hotline we can call so that we give bib numbers of those drafting?
the sad thing is that the 'establishment' doesn't care about the violation of the rules
and since it's expensive, and costly to the IM brand (and others) to risk calling out the 'cheats', they will not pursue it aggressively
I'd certainly piss in any cup they wanted to hand me to prove I'm clean, but I'd bet if you even gave 10 people consecutively cups to piss in, there would be several who'd refuse.
The comment about losing accountability seems true to me.
iron_mike wrote:
DBF wrote:
No way 10% dope and probably "only" testosterone for the one who do. I have won a few IM events clean and I am not a genetic freak by any measure. My competitors doping is not something I worry about. Nobody is doing EPO. Drafting is higher than 40% at most races. Kona is the worst if you count borderline legal drafting. Lange drafted the whole race AGers in Kona draft a lot like the pros in Kona.
again, you don't have to guess at this stuff. it's been studied and routinely comes back in the 10-15% neighborhood.
Can you link any studies? You know, since it's been done before and 'routinely comes back 10-15%'...
And for the record, I think there is a HUGE difference between 'cheating' and breaking the rules. I'm quite certain many have done the latter, without even realizing it. Like taking a drink from their wife, staying in the draft zone for a few minutes behind a pelaton, riding on the left for a long time and blocking, screaming at someone who won't stay right, throwing away the bottle in the wrong place (outside assistance, drafting, blocking, code of conduct violation, abandonment).
http://www.ironman.com/~/media/0325ab36a43f4803a47938cb16db1ec8/2018%20ironman%20competition%20rules%20%20english%20version%2017april2018%20%20%20clean%20final.pdf
Putting EPO in oneself, purposely taking steroid derrivatives or T to be able to train/recover better-well, that's cheating to me, and beyond reproach.
Dale
*edited to add:
and I'm not even talking about normal, appropriate meds which many athletes are on but don't bother getting a TUE as they are not competitive.
Advair, Albuterol, Diuretics, Pseudofed, Cannibus, Glucocorticoids, Beta blockers (lots of athlete's with AFIB, just sayin' )
Not sure if these all apply to triathlon specifically but they are on the WADA list
https://www.wada-ama.org/...t/what-is-prohibited