klehner wrote:
lightheir wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
lightheir wrote:
I agree with the OP for the most part. Def for the typical AG-triathlete - start in youth does NOT make a shred of difference. It's ALL about working hard and consistently as an adult.This quote is from the same guy that rejects the advice that both technique and fitness are very important in swimming, and says over and over again that your power is much more important than your technique once you get a basic level of technique. This is based on his N-1 experience that leads him to reject the advice given by pretty much anyone here that actually knows what they're talking about.
FWIW, I see this effect to an even greater level in downhill skiing, which I've done since I was four. It's almost unheard of for someone that comes to the sport as an adult to ever achieve the highest levels of expert technique. They can become pretty proficient, but usually that's about it. Sure, some of it is the extra time that the young starters had, but there's really no doubt it's a significant advantage to have those skills ingrained at an early age.
Sorry, but for the typical age-group triathlete, power IS wayyy more important in swimming than technique, once you're flat in the water and past that raw beginner level. Note I've always emphasized age-group triathlete, which is the (vast) majority of folks participating on these forums.
I would not go to an elite swim forum where folks are trying to squeeze 0.2 seconds/100 off their swim times, and tell them the same thing, especially when they are hitting near-maximal levels of swim training.
But seriously, you tell me how much the typical age-group triathlete swims for training on AVERAGE (not peak). It's a pittance. And when you see all these videos posted online (literally all of them) of self-swim analysis, and ask why they're not going sub 1:15/100, lack of power in the stroke is far and away the limiting factor.
tl;dr
I'll argue against that last bit: far and away the limiting factor is *not applying* power in their stroke, not a lack of power. Most people swimming 1:45+/100scy just aren't applying any power, because *their technique sucks*. All the time in the pool won't change that. A couple of sessions of doing it correctly will.
And I'll agree to disagree with you on that most AG triathletes have a problem of applying power, not power itself.
WHen you're talking most triathletes, even thing big buffed ones, they have a power generation problem. They can't maintain that power over the race distance. Sure, they also have some signficant power application problems, but it pales in comparison to their lack of power, period.
Just go on this very forum and look at all the self-videos for swim critique. There are literally zero videos where you look at it, and can say, "woah - you're quite powerful in the water but you're thrashing it all away.' Whereas every single video shown has some swimmer who looks like they are almost on a leisure cruise, gently paddling away, with no urgency, and no frequency, none of them hitting cadences of 100+.
Take those so called-powerful folks who can't swim fast at all you claim to know - I challenge you to have them maintain 100 spm for a full hour. I dont even care if they are fugly, awful, energy-wasting strokes - they just have to have a reasonable range of motion (more than just a 6 inch doggy paddle). Literally none of them will close to surviving it - I'll bet none of them will even hit the 15 minute mark. Power isn't just being able to pull a huge load for 5 strokes - it is holding force over time, same as cycling with a higher cadence. We all should be wise enough to know now that hugeness of muscles does not matter in triathlon endurance, whether it be swim, bike, or run. AListair brownlee, Lucy Charles, etc. - none of these elites are 'buff', but all of them are super powerful in the water.
What I will say, though is that there are a few super talented folks who can pull hard, and pull well, on little training. They are rare, but so are 7+ foot tall NBA players who do in fact exist. Klehner, do us a favor and tell us about your swim background and how long it took for you to get faster than 1:20/100, and please focus on any youth training secrets, as well as the technical secrets and breakthroughs you made early that should be eminently transferable to the typical AGer to get 75% of the speed you have.