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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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psychosyd wrote:
If I were coaching an up and coming star, I would recomend they stay as far away from posting (or reading) on ST as possible. Unless they had balls of steal and don't take a single word posted here seriously. Luckily, most pros are too busy or tired to put up with the ST bullsh#$t.

I enjoy reading the posts from the pros that do, but as in most internet forums, the negative vibes that flow from the "ST douche" (like this new term!) are not worth exposing themselves to. It would be a waste of time and energies that could be better focused elsewhere. Especially, for someone like Lionel who is relatively new to the pro level and the pressures that come with.

You want to know anwsers to specific questions? Read their blogs and facebook pages. Email them questions and most will respond.

I find it funny how some people seem to think that it is somehow an error in a pros character that they don't worship the ST bible like us lowly AG'ers do!

Nobody should steal balls damnit! That's just mean.

____________________________________________________
"As for "xxxxxx"...what can I say? You sound like a dick. If you don't want to answer the question, just shut up." AllezPappa
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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@BW_Tri wrote:
There are plenty of pros that come on here and give you insight, as well as coaches. When people make claims I think it is fair to ask for clarification and proof, if they are willing to provide it, as I know some coaches/athletes are really protective of their power info. That doesn't seem the case as Lionel was kind enough to upload his power files for Mt. Lemmon, and maybe he will do it for Oceanside, but has yet to due to travel.

I guess you missed the line " I have followed along on here over the past 6 months as it has been a cool story to follow. I think it is great what Barrie has come on here and done, by opening up and talking about everything Lionel is doing".

It just seems that there is a big difference in the speed to W/Kg from Jesse to LS and wanted to see what others thought, specifically Barrie. He has yet to respond to my posts, not sure why he avoided the first 2, and I can understand why he would not respond to the third one.

Although I am not at the level of LS, you can always click on my website below for an insight into a "pro's" racing and training, but then again seems you said "Top pro's" ;)

I still fail to see why you feel owed any sort of follow up. Never mind that you seem, at the very least, agitated that there hasnt been.

And still - who gives a shit about his numbers. I hope they're all fake. Just so it drives people like you nuts.

And while you continue to question...guys like LS will be winning Ironmans and going top three behind some Olympians. I guess when you start doing that, people will click through to your website.

Shit is so odd.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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totally agree, but I don't think posting here is the best way to support their sponsors. Some can do it and have thick skins. Lionel is a grass roots kind of guy, and I think that is the best place for him to be. He gets out at local races and volunteers. He does a lot of stuff at that level which suits his personality.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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Well, mental toughness is pretty key for athletics. If they can't take the stuff here, then psych games from other athletes will smash them for sure. One has to learn to not let it in a head. I will say that once the Slowtwitch crowd is won over, the athlete and sponsors are accepted and golden. I will say that ST members tend to be very loyal, and good supporters on things/people they believe in. I think all of this posturing from Barrie, without ANY response from LS as promised looks pretty lame.
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
@BW_Tri wrote:
There are plenty of pros that come on here and give you insight, as well as coaches. When people make claims I think it is fair to ask for clarification and proof, if they are willing to provide it, as I know some coaches/athletes are really protective of their power info. That doesn't seem the case as Lionel was kind enough to upload his power files for Mt. Lemmon, and maybe he will do it for Oceanside, but has yet to due to travel.

I guess you missed the line " I have followed along on here over the past 6 months as it has been a cool story to follow. I think it is great what Barrie has come on here and done, by opening up and talking about everything Lionel is doing".

It just seems that there is a big difference in the speed to W/Kg from Jesse to LS and wanted to see what others thought, specifically Barrie. He has yet to respond to my posts, not sure why he avoided the first 2, and I can understand why he would not respond to the third one.

Although I am not at the level of LS, you can always click on my website below for an insight into a "pro's" racing and training, but then again seems you said "Top pro's" ;)


I still fail to see why you feel owed any sort of follow up. Never mind that you seem, at the very least, agitated that there hasnt been.

And still - who gives a shit about his numbers. I hope they're all fake. Just so it drives people like you nuts.

And while you continue to question...guys like LS will be winning Ironmans and going top three behind some Olympians. I guess when you start doing that, people will click through to your website.

Shit is so odd.

I don't think I am "owed" anything. But I think if you are going to come on here and make claims, and then someone calls you out on them, for being inconsistent, that you should respond. Who gives a shit about his numbers? Like I said in my other post, I find it odd that Barrie came on here and talks about his numbers, inconsistently at that, and then doesn't want to clarify when asked about it. That is what I find odd..................

I understand that Jesse and LS more than likely rode different types of PM's. I understand that calibration plays a factor into it. I just found the gap in W/Kg to be pretty damn big, and was wondering what others thought. It was a simple discussion, which is what people on ST do, right?

People don't click on others websites because of their results, they click because of the athletes story and what they talk about. It is an outlet to get to know the athletes, and LS has done a VERY good job about being open on his website and sharing a lot about his training.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [davearm] [ In reply to ]
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davearm wrote:
mcycle wrote:
davearm wrote:
@BW_Tri wrote:

It just seems that there is a big difference in the speed to W/Kg from Jesse to LS and wanted to see what others thought, specifically Barrie.


FWIW, LS doesn't seem to agree with your "big difference" take. From his twitter feed:

@jessemthomas Nice race and report bro. Cool that our numbers somewhat agree. I was ~365w avg for the ride at 165lbs. See you at the races!


Jesse is a lot heavier. It's watts/kg not just watts.


Tell it to LS. That's his quote.

So now we get the clarification that LS rode at ~365 and not 376, and now we know his weight is 165 and NOT 160 like Barrie stated...................Starting to see a trend here................

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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@BW_Tri wrote:
davearm wrote:
mcycle wrote:
davearm wrote:
@BW_Tri wrote:

It just seems that there is a big difference in the speed to W/Kg from Jesse to LS and wanted to see what others thought, specifically Barrie.


FWIW, LS doesn't seem to agree with your "big difference" take. From his twitter feed:

@jessemthomas Nice race and report bro. Cool that our numbers somewhat agree. I was ~365w avg for the ride at 165lbs. See you at the races!


Jesse is a lot heavier. It's watts/kg not just watts.


Tell it to LS. That's his quote.

So now we get the clarification that LS rode at ~365 and not 376, and now we know his weight is 165 and NOT 160 like Barrie stated...................Starting to see a trend here................

Oh my god! Subpoena his training peaks account! The citizens of slowtwitch are owed the truth! This pattern of deceipt and manipulation shows he will stop at nothing to win at the expense of the middle of the pack age grouper!

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I feel a bit silly asking - but was this an April Fool's joke? I read that Jen Voigt was training to hit 370W for his hour record and is of similar size/weight (6-2 163lbs). Not looking to kick the dead horse or anything.
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [goldentech] [ In reply to ]
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I have no idea if the LS numbers from this race are accurate. If they are that puts is FTP at 414-429. Pretty staggering and the Jens hour record target of 370 puts it in perspective for sure. But I'm not going to start an investigation over it! It is clear he is a workhorse and he is very very strong on the bike, but beyond that I know nothing.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [DaveRoche] [ In reply to ]
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DaveRoche wrote:

Which brings up a broader point: there's a certain dismissiveness directed at pros that is unwarranted and unfair. Being a banker or whatever is 10x easier than being a top-level pro triathlete (and that is coming from a lawyer).

Easier in what way? Physically easier??? Sure, I'd give you that.

I'd say that being an age group banker or lawyer who works 50+ hours per week and has a family and finds time to train 10+ hours per week is more difficult than being a top-level pro triathlete whose only job is to train. Certainly far more difficult from a time management and stress perspective. The typical AG'er with a job and family also doesn't have oodles of time for recovery, which makes the physical component often far more taxing than it would outwardly seem.

If only my job were to train for 20-30 hours per week. I know that's no small task, and I say it in half pink font, and physically demanding on a level I've never seen but it's still just 3-4 hours per day of working out, with 20 hours to rest, recover, sleep, whatever (to include family time for some pros). They're not designing the new space shuttle or physically building a new pyramid at Giza or digging a ditch for Judge Smails. Let's keep it in perspective.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
DaveRoche wrote:


Which brings up a broader point: there's a certain dismissiveness directed at pros that is unwarranted and unfair. Being a banker or whatever is 10x easier than being a top-level pro triathlete (and that is coming from a lawyer).


Easier in what way? Physically easier??? Sure, I'd give you that.

I'd say that being an age group banker or lawyer who works 50+ hours per week and has a family and finds time to train 10+ hours per week is more difficult than being a top-level pro triathlete whose only job is to train. Certainly far more difficult from a time management and stress perspective. The typical AG'er with a job and family also doesn't have oodles of time for recovery, which makes the physical component often far more taxing than it would outwardly seem.

If only my job were to train for 20-30 hours per week. I know that's no small task, and I say it in half pink font, and physically demanding on a level I've never seen but it's still just 3-4 hours per day of working out, with 20 hours to rest, recover, sleep, whatever (to include family time for some pros). They're not designing the new space shuttle or physically building a new pyramid at Giza or digging a ditch for Judge Smails. Let's keep it in perspective.

A professional triathlete provides nothing of real value to a society so their efforts need to be kept in perspective. From an entertainment perspective they offer almost nothing as triathlon is not televised, stream lived, or watched. From a brand marketing perspective they are only marketable to the triathlon community and rarely if ever branch out from that. They have minimal travel (go look at cycling, baseball, basketball, etc and their travel schedules). Nobody watches so the performance pressure should be quite low, unless they are a total soup sandwich.

Now on to this utterly insane statement that being a pro triathlete is 10x harder than other professions. The typical physician will have a 4 year undergrad, 4 year med school, 2-3 year residency, and 2-3 year fellowship. Then there is the very long hours, regular upkeep of certifications, research, and continuing education. A "banker" as you state could have a similarly difficult path. Lets say you are an investment banker, many will have at least a masters degree with 10+ years in a highly demanding and stressful field, where a bad day can cost millions of dollars and no second chance. Military is another great example, no such thing as a work week for most, you work all the time. Any kind of special operations will include training which would crush your latte sipping triathlete, they simply would not understand what it is like to not have somebody hold their hand through the tough times. There is no offseason, no recovery days, and a bad day means you don't come home.

How about a police officer? They must have it easy considering all they have to do is go to a 6 month academy? Police officers have an extremely difficult job, they have to make split second decisions on a daily basis that can be life or death. They make a wrong decision they are arrested for abuse/unnecessary violence or they might die. They work very long hours with little compensation. Many firefighters are the same, very low compensation for a high risk job that is essential for any city. We NEED police and firefighters.

How about an engineer? My sister is an electrical engineer and she was a 4.0 GPA at a pre high school where she studied 99% of the time. She then did a double major electrical engineering/Math in college with a 4.0 GPA to ensure she would have good job offers. She worked non stop. She is now an engineer after 5 years of working for a company getting the years done and taking the test. In her job if there is an slip up there are huge consequences and the attention to detail is remarkable. If somebody saw the level of detail these people go into to ensure absolute perfection you would be amazed.

Now how about the nurse, that must be a pretty easy job right? Well you have to do a bachelors of science in nursing which will ensure you have the required medical knowledge. Countless clinical hours. Long days studying for certifications. The actual job is essential for society, the nurse will be the primary contact person in the US healthcare system, they ensure all medications are dosed and given properly. They are the first to respond to any kind of medical emergency and often will be the ones who handle a person who crashes. Again, a bad day or a slip up can have deadly consequences.
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Being currently a professional engineer, having served as a military engineering officer including 6 tours in AFG/IRQ, and having tried to train as a pro triathlete (albeit with zero success), I think what both you and GMAN are missing are the truly epic physical demands of elite level training. When I built up to 25 hrs/wk of training, man I was just tired ALL the time. No matter how much I slept, how well I ate, how many massages, ice baths, etc, i took, that feeling of exhaustion just never left. Prob i was over-trained but that is the thing: a pro athlete, whether in tri, running, swimming, cycling, or whatever, if he/she goes over the edge and just can't go fast anymore, then his/her livelihood is just gone, vanished, kaput. He/she is totally at the mercy of what his/her body can do and, if/when the body says this is it, we're done, then that is it. Certainly, the professional engineer/doctor/nurse/lawyer/banker or whatever has some stress, but generally they have had sufficient training to be able recognize and solve the problems they encounter daily pretty easily. I have never felt stressed at all in my civilian engineering career. As to my military experience, i can not speak for Special Forces guys but, as an engr officer certainly there was more stress than in civilian life but it was IMO extremely cool to go outside the wire and risk getting shot at or blown up. I know some people found it very stressful but i just thought it was very exhilarating. I would have stayed deployed if they would have let me:)

In summary, i think you're over-estimating the stress of normal jobs and underestimating the extreme physical stress of elite athletic training in any endurance sport. But really, i have no dog in this fight, just giving my $0.02:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
GMAN19030 wrote:
DaveRoche wrote:


Which brings up a broader point: there's a certain dismissiveness directed at pros that is unwarranted and unfair. Being a banker or whatever is 10x easier than being a top-level pro triathlete (and that is coming from a lawyer).


Easier in what way? Physically easier??? Sure, I'd give you that.

I'd say that being an age group banker or lawyer who works 50+ hours per week and has a family and finds time to train 10+ hours per week is more difficult than being a top-level pro triathlete whose only job is to train. Certainly far more difficult from a time management and stress perspective. The typical AG'er with a job and family also doesn't have oodles of time for recovery, which makes the physical component often far more taxing than it would outwardly seem.

If only my job were to train for 20-30 hours per week. I know that's no small task, and I say it in half pink font, and physically demanding on a level I've never seen but it's still just 3-4 hours per day of working out, with 20 hours to rest, recover, sleep, whatever (to include family time for some pros). They're not designing the new space shuttle or physically building a new pyramid at Giza or digging a ditch for Judge Smails. Let's keep it in perspective.


A professional triathlete provides nothing of real value to a society so their efforts need to be kept in perspective. From an entertainment perspective they offer almost nothing as triathlon is not televised, stream lived, or watched. From a brand marketing perspective they are only marketable to the triathlon community and rarely if ever branch out from that. They have minimal travel (go look at cycling, baseball, basketball, etc and their travel schedules). Nobody watches so the performance pressure should be quite low, unless they are a total soup sandwich.

Now on to this utterly insane statement that being a pro triathlete is 10x harder than other professions. The typical physician will have a 4 year undergrad, 4 year med school, 2-3 year residency, and 2-3 year fellowship. Then there is the very long hours, regular upkeep of certifications, research, and continuing education. A "banker" as you state could have a similarly difficult path. Lets say you are an investment banker, many will have at least a masters degree with 10+ years in a highly demanding and stressful field, where a bad day can cost millions of dollars and no second chance. Military is another great example, no such thing as a work week for most, you work all the time. Any kind of special operations will include training which would crush your latte sipping triathlete, they simply would not understand what it is like to not have somebody hold their hand through the tough times. There is no offseason, no recovery days, and a bad day means you don't come home.

How about a police officer? They must have it easy considering all they have to do is go to a 6 month academy? Police officers have an extremely difficult job, they have to make split second decisions on a daily basis that can be life or death. They make a wrong decision they are arrested for abuse/unnecessary violence or they might die. They work very long hours with little compensation. Many firefighters are the same, very low compensation for a high risk job that is essential for any city. We NEED police and firefighters.

How about an engineer? My sister is an electrical engineer and she was a 4.0 GPA at a pre high school where she studied 99% of the time. She then did a double major electrical engineering/Math in college with a 4.0 GPA to ensure she would have good job offers. She worked non stop. She is now an engineer after 5 years of working for a company getting the years done and taking the test. In her job if there is an slip up there are huge consequences and the attention to detail is remarkable. If somebody saw the level of detail these people go into to ensure absolute perfection you would be amazed.

Now how about the nurse, that must be a pretty easy job right? Well you have to do a bachelors of science in nursing which will ensure you have the required medical knowledge. Countless clinical hours. Long days studying for certifications. The actual job is essential for society, the nurse will be the primary contact person in the US healthcare system, they ensure all medications are dosed and given properly. They are the first to respond to any kind of medical emergency and often will be the ones who handle a person who crashes. Again, a bad day or a slip up can have deadly consequences.

Is your sister hot?

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Is your sister hot? //

FTW!!
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Slim2nun] [ In reply to ]
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Slim2nun wrote:
Is your sister hot? //

FTW!!

I don't get it...can you give me a hint or explain???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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his sister is an electrical engineer....
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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fulla wrote:
his sister is an electrical engineer....

OK, thanks, i guess that kinda sorta explains it:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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train for 25 hours a week - or simply have a baby and see which is more tiring.

I have never, ever been more exhausted than as a result of the sleep deprivation caused by having a baby that eats sleeps and s**t's every 2-3 hours for the first 90 days (and much longer for some - my brothers son was still being admitted to hospital at 9 months dues to a GI issue and he never slept)

I went back to work a week after the baby was born and I don't think either my wife or I had more than 90-120 minutes of continuous sleep for weeks - partly our own fault for not thinking through feeding strategies - but there's no doubt in my mind that there is a significant difference between exhaustion caused by physical activity and the consequences of sleep deprivation..........the effects of which are extremely well documented
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
train for 25 hours a week - or simply have a baby and see which is more tiring.

I have never, ever been more exhausted than as a result of the sleep deprivation caused by having a baby that eats sleeps and s**t's every 2-3 hours for the first 90 days (and much longer for some - my brothers son was still being admitted to hospital at 9 months dues to a GI issue and he never slept)

I went back to work a week after the baby was born and I don't think either my wife or I had more than 90-120 minutes of continuous sleep for weeks - partly our own fault for not thinking through feeding strategies - but there's no doubt in my mind that there is a significant difference between exhaustion caused by physical activity and the consequences of sleep deprivation..........the effects of which are extremely well documented

it gets better over time

pretty safe to say that this thread went off the rails

so what did Lionel learn?
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know why I'm replying to this, but...

Abu Dhabi (Middle East)
Auckland (New Zealand)
Gold Coast (Australia)
Cape Town (South Africa)
Yokohama (Japan)
London (England)
Hamburg (Germany)
Stockholm (Sweden)
Edmonton (Canada)
Chicago (USA)

Sure... That's an easy travel schedule. Especially when you consider it isn't going from one to the next, but often home or somewhere to train in between races. Those aren't 2-3 hour time swings either. They can be 10-12 hour time zone changes and 16-20 hour flights that wreak havoc on your body. Never mind the rest of your post, but saying there is minimal travel shows you aren't too clued in.

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Instagram | Team Kiwami North America
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [ptakeda] [ In reply to ]
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ptakeda wrote:
Andrewmc wrote:
train for 25 hours a week - or simply have a baby and see which is more tiring.

I have never, ever been more exhausted than as a result of the sleep deprivation caused by having a baby that eats sleeps and s**t's every 2-3 hours for the first 90 days (and much longer for some - my brothers son was still being admitted to hospital at 9 months dues to a GI issue and he never slept)

I went back to work a week after the baby was born and I don't think either my wife or I had more than 90-120 minutes of continuous sleep for weeks - partly our own fault for not thinking through feeding strategies - but there's no doubt in my mind that there is a significant difference between exhaustion caused by physical activity and the consequences of sleep deprivation..........the effects of which are extremely well documented


it gets better over time

pretty safe to say that this thread went off the rails

so what did Lionel learn?

To not have a baby and look for hot sisters?
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Sbradley11] [ In reply to ]
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Sbradley11 wrote:
I don't know why I'm replying to this, but...

Abu Dhabi (Middle East)
Auckland (New Zealand)
Gold Coast (Australia)
Cape Town (South Africa)
Yokohama (Japan)
London (England)
Hamburg (Germany)
Stockholm (Sweden)
Edmonton (Canada)
Chicago (USA)

Sure... That's an easy travel schedule. Especially when you consider it isn't going from one to the next, but often home or somewhere to train in between races. Those aren't 2-3 hour time swings either. They can be 10-12 hour time zone changes and 16-20 hour flights that wreak havoc on your body. Never mind the rest of your post, but saying there is minimal travel shows you aren't too clued in.

This slowtwitch, no one cares about ITU here!
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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Re: WHAT LIONEL SANDERS LEARNED TODAY IN OCEANSIDE [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say that being an age group banker or lawyer who works 50+ hours per week and has a family and finds time to train 10+ hours per week


You forgot to add, doing all that while doing a part-time Phd, learning a second language and participating in the local symphony. The number of posts I've read about super human age groups here on ST, who would dominate the pro triathlon fields if only they had their easy life, is remarkable.
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