Not to get sidetracked...but a Dave Roche post with nary a mention of poop?. That, my friend, makes me sad.

Otherwise, well stated!

Everything I say is bullpoop, so it's included by reference.

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

Thank you for this Dave. I couldn't agree more. A young stud goes head to head with two of the most accomplished triathletes of this generation, his coach comes on to give a glimpse of his training and progression and the ST Douche-mob comes out in force.

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Formerly DrD

Haha, I am not saying anyone is a douche! Though Douche-mob would be a damn good band name. You're the man, thanks!

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

You're welcome!

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Formerly DrD

There are plenty of pros that come on here and give you insight, as well as coaches. When people make claims I think it is fair to ask for clarification and proof, if they are willing to provide it, as I know some coaches/athletes are really protective of their power info. That doesn't seem the case as Lionel was kind enough to upload his power files for Mt. Lemmon, and maybe he will do it for Oceanside, but has yet to due to travel.

I guess you missed the line " I have followed along on here over the past 6 months as it has been a cool story to follow. I think it is great what Barrie has come on here and done, by opening up and talking about everything Lionel is doing".

It just seems that there is a big difference in the speed to W/Kg from Jesse to LS and wanted to see what others thought, specifically Barrie. He has yet to respond to my posts, not sure why he avoided the first 2, and I can understand why he would not respond to the third one.

Although I am not at the level of LS, you can always click on my website below for an insight into a "pro's" racing and training, but then again seems you said "Top pro's" ;)

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Who calibrates the watt instruments ? Any measurement devices that are used like in this thread, would be checked or "proved" to a standard before being able to compare like you guys are doing.

We call it meter proving, or calibration in industry.

To be arguing over watt numbers without a proper calibration between the two, is putting a lot of faith in the accuracy of the two meters. Especially when something appears to be amiss.

If you are light ie 160, then you'd have to gain a lot of force off the bars to put up bigger watt numbers I would think.

idk I don't ride with a watt meter or computer, so just going on basic science I guess.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

If sanders was on spot for 2:35 marathon split, this begs the question, why doesnt WTC offer prizes for best split times for each leg, and over all. So maybe 10k for best run even, and 50k for best time ever (on legit courses of distance, non current/wind assisted)

FWIW, LS doesn't seem to agree with your "big difference" take. From his twitter feed:

@jessemthomas Nice race and report bro. Cool that our numbers somewhat agree. I was ~365w avg for the ride at 165lbs. See you at the races!

Because WTC doesn't give a shit about the pro race. Did you see the coverage for that race? Of course you didn't... it didn't exist!

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Ya, Potts and Frodo only put around 10,000 hrs in the pool to become 15:XX 1500 M swimmers. It would be totally fair if someone came up with a way for an adult to spend 100 hrs and achieve the same results. Seems completely fair to me.

(Potts went 15:38 in the '96 Oly Trials to finish 9th in the 1500 lcm free.)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Jesse is a lot heavier. It's watts/kg not just watts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k

Tell it to LS. That's his quote.

This was simply amazing ... On repeat for when I run these streets son!!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

it's neither. It's watts/CdA, or rather, speed. I could get a 2:04 bike split on 335 watts, and I'm not that particularly slippery. Instead of measuring dicks about how many watts they put out, they should be seeing who used the fewest, or really who won the race. LS and JT did neither.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

He was sponsored by Stages last year, but that seems to have been removed from his sponsor list. If he's still using Stages, then I would say all his numbers should be in quotation marks.

I'm not exactly sure we disagree. Perhaps the tone of my post rubbed people the wrong way because I said I didn't like the excuses. That's a minor gripe.

My main point is that I'd like to see more of this come from Lionel himself (since he does post every now and then), instead of everything being filtered through his coach. Everything from the all-caps thread title down to the sensational hype stirred up from the Mt Lemmon thread just seems to be the opposite of "humble". It seems like a drive-by gloat or something.

It just gives me this vibe like, he is a pro so now he's high-profile talent and inaccessible to regular joes. Instead any comments will be directed to filtered through his coach.

I want to hear MORE of this stuff from Lionel. I wish more pros would come post on ST. If all they can muster up is to get their coaches to come on here it's better than nothing. But I'd rather see the pros themselves become more directly accessible.

For example if Lionel really "shut it down" in some race, then I want to hear it from his own mouth. I don't want to hear his coach making commentary about it. Lionel is the only person who knows what really happens and it'd be nice to hear it in his own words with the ability to interact with him and ask questions.

Lots of other pros do "ask me anything" threads and those are really cool.

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my strava

Thanks so much for the explanation! However, I think it would not be wise to hold your breath waiting for pros to become "more directly accessible," and that's because of the unwarranted armchair quarterbacking I talked about in my post. Also, I primarily wanted to make the broader point about respecting pros like Lionel (and coaches like Barrie) who give their hearts and souls to their profession (in a manner that is difficult to understand unless you've done it).

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

I don't think Lionel asked Barrie to post anything and truthfully if you want to hear it from his mouth hit his blog up and you can: http://lsanderstri.com/

Barrie is the voice of triathlon on the WTS/ITU circuit so I think it's in his nature to comment on anything and everything as that is part of what he does. He just so happens to have a front row seat to Lionel. I wasn't in the triathlon community back in 2000 but I would guess that he didn't have the same approach with Simon but please somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: Sorry Dave replied to wrong post!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I know nothing about anything. But I always appreciate a Slowtwitch reply email, even if it wasn't meant for me :) You rock!

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

Honestly I just follow Lionel since I read his swim story four days before Oceanside. I'm a terrible swimmer and this guy is just an inspiration. The more I was surprised to hear from his great race last weekend. All the more because he took up Triathlon relatively late.

I am very grateful for all his insights and also for this thread here. Thank you.

I think it is not easy when everyone is telling you what you could do better and how you should do things, when they don't know you, actually. I am looking forward to other great performances of LS.

greetings

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

If I were coaching an up and coming star, I would recomend they stay as far away from posting (or reading) on ST as possible. Unless they had balls of steal and don't take a single word posted here seriously. Luckily, most pros are too busy or tired to put up with the ST bullsh#$t.

I enjoy reading the posts from the pros that do, but as in most internet forums, the negative vibes that flow from the "ST douche" (like this new term!) are not worth exposing themselves to. It would be a waste of time and energies that could be better focused elsewhere. Especially, for someone like Lionel who is relatively new to the pro level and the pressures that come with.

You want to know anwsers to specific questions? Read their blogs and facebook pages. Email them questions and most will respond.

I find it funny how some people seem to think that it is somehow an error in a pros character that they don't worship the ST bible like us lowly AG'ers do!

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NCCP certified Comp coach

Perhaps some validity to what you say, but there are only a very small handful of pros that do anything significant for their sponsors in the public arena. Until they get that and step up, the pro game will stay where it is.....in trouble. Our sport is so small in the scheme of things, so they need to go above and beyond what other athletes must do or we stay a closet sport for the pros. They need to get out of the closet.