This is terrific news. I raced IMTX last year when it was wetsuit legal and thought that, while it's a great race, the mass start in that narrow area was less than ideal. Very crowded the entire way and I got seriously beaten up. A rolling start makes a lot of sense for IMTX.

No race Dev in my view, you miss the real-time 'one on one' battle with your fellow AG competitors - as you know, a big factor on a multi-lap course is tracking your competitors, counting their lap bands - are you in a slot position etc, etc.
Just think WTC have knee-jerked a tad on this and are pandering to the 1st timers who maybe are nervous about the swim (altho' I've raced many & still get nervous). Commercial reasons for all this? If it prolongs our sport & attracts new folks then all good I guess but still dumbing-down and taking away the competitive angle...

Also it did occur to me that it would be easier to arrange my swim squad buddies on race morning so that we'll all start together and I can get a nice familiar draft - just kidding! ;-)

you're right...I will be cheering this year. hahaha. Quit pouting. i will be at practice tomorrow.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

From my perspective, this is a great development. I would estimate that a good 50% of the athletes in the water haven't done enough training or racing in open water to be deemed competent. So, it'll make the race safer, easier to manage and more fair with less possibility of drafting on the bike. All in all a step in the right direction.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
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Sorry, but how does a rolling start translate to safer swimming for those less competent. Surely with a mass start they should be starting at the back and/ or side, rather than the front or mid pack? And who is to say that they will honestly self seed?

Also, a lot of people have been saying that it'll cut down on drafting. How so? You're still going to have the same number of people all biking to their abilities on the course. Is a few minutes difference between getting in the water going to make that much difference?

Also, how's the finish managed? Midnight cut-off, or 17 (or whatever) hour cut-off, and if so, how does the finish line staff know if you've come in under the cut-off? Check your name against the chip time prior to the hug/t-shirt/medal fest?

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

The rolling start will thin out the pack. You won't have 2500+ people all starting at the same time. They will spread those people out over 20 minutes. It will be easier for safety personnel on the water to identify people in trouble more quickly. Also, with less of a concentration of athletes on the course safety personnel will be able to get to those athletes in distress quicker. Some people might place themselves in a start time that is far above their ability level in the swim and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions along with the safety assets on the course, but again with less concentration of athletes on the course at any one time it will make it safer and easier to manage for everyone. But again, this is from my perspective.

If you have less of a concentration of athletes going into the water and where they are spread out over 20 minutes (which is more than a few minutes), you will have less of a concentration of athletes coming out of the water and then onto the bike course. Fairly simple course management.

I don't know exactly how they will manage the 17 hour cutoff, but I would guess that the people that self-seed towards the front (faster triathletes) and would be getting an extra 20 minutes on the 17 hours cutoff, don't need 17 hours to finish. The people that are slower and self seed towards back will get 17 hours to finish. And, in my experience, at IMTX there are typically less than 20 people at end of the race that don't make the 17 hour cutoff.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
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I do see your point about removing the head to head competition but in many 70.3 races we already have 3 waves per age group so we were already 10 minutes apart from the other guys and had to basically go full throttle to the end not knowing the actual position. So on the one hand, I like head to head, but it only works well in smaller events. Once the event gets fairly large, I am a big proponent of the rolling start as it makes the swim calmer and it also significantly reduces drafting early in the bike.

When IM races were 1000 people or even 1500 people in a wide start like Penticton, it was not too bad. Now with 2500-3000 people a different format is needed for a fair and safe race. The sport has to change with the times and still stay safe and fair. If they offer me 1000-1500 person wide beach or wide in water mass starts, I won't complain much. IM Texas has a wide enough start but with that many people in the race, the ride out of T2 will be much more calm with less congestion with the rolling start. If you are anti drafting, once you see experience it and see how much better it is, you will feel that is gets closer to restoring the "individual achievement" of the Ironman, which I would much rather have, rather than be in a drag race with someone in my age group during the last 10K of the run, when that guy swam 15 minutes slower than me, and rode up towards me in peloton and started the run with much fresher legs....there is no man to man competition in that. Might as well just make me run with a 15 lbs penalty backpack for trying to race clean and avoid packs....I'd rather that the race format is set up such that less packs are likely to form....rolling start helps that in a massive way.

Rolling start just makes a 2500-3000 person race more fair.

So... basically rolling starts are safer by concentrating on the back end of the field. But shouldn't the kayaks / boats be doing that anyways? At least with mass starts the safety crew can track with the backmarkers and be within a reasonable distance of anyone else who may run into trouble (and we've all heard of competent OW swimmers who have unforeseen problems, haven't we?)

Also, it does sound like you're leaving the overly ambitious self seeders to their fate.

I understand your point on the bike section, but stick by my comment that it's giving a disadvantage to the mediocre swimmer / stronger biker skill set. Likewise, you're left alone to race your race on the run, rather than knowing your competitors and how much time you've got on them/ they've got on you, and psychological aspect of that.

It does sound like they're changing the format to accommodate more starters than would be safe, and pandering to those who haven't / couldn't / wouldn't put in the relevant practice to have a degree of comfort in OW.

I've heard a number of arguments why rolling starts are good (IMUK is doing the same this year), but I'm still not convinced that it's not simply to dilute the experience for the benefit of those that arguable shouldn't be on the startline in the first place, and inflating numbers for greater profit. I'm looking forward to further comments on the subject though.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

maybe this is primarily philosophical, but I also don't like the TT format because in essence, the competitors don't necessarily face the same conditions.

20 minutes later, it might be a wetter course, or a hotter course or a windier course. I don't like that two people are compared on different conditions. Granted 20 minutes is not a big time frame, but some 70.3s spread out the start over a very long duration (hour or more) and people are racing for 4.5 to 5 hours. That is a significant change in conditions.

Like I said, mostly philosophical, it would only come into play if say it was raining hard on / off and one guy got 20 more minutes of dry than the other.

I have basically given up this fight, I want to race, so sometimes it is not ideal.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

If the last starter is timed at 6:56, the final cutoff will be 11:56 pm. Anybody who finishes before that, but goes over 17 hours, is officially a DNF, but they'll get a medal and a hug and I assume a shirt. Nobody's checking for sub-17 in the finish chute although it could be done. I'm looking at the final times and know if somebody is over 17, but I'm not sure there's anything to be gained by going full-on finisher-nazi in the chute and withholding finisher swag from 17+ "finishers". They've pretty much always gotten medals anyway if they come in after midnight, as long as it's not 2:30 am and everybody's gone.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Sucks to be the guy/gal who comes in after the cut-off at another race and is told nah, you're too late, or gets pulled off the course because they're just outside a course cut-off point on the run. But like you say, they'll usually end up with the swag if they make it to the finish line irregardless of the time they do it in.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

We clearly had very different race experiences. There is plenty of room to line up in the water in front of the bridge and seed yourself accordingly for a mass start. It was one of the clearest races off the start I've ever done. I dont see how this is gonna work off that tiny boat ramp. 5 across can make it in at a time, maybe. This seems like a solution to a problem that didnt exist at this race. Its essentially the same at IMWI as well. It would be nice to keep a few races mass start to you can still go head to head if that means doing all men and all women wave starts 5-10 minutes apart.

I can't tell if you're joking, or you just that dumb.

Sure sounds like it. To be fair, I'm merely an average swimmer and perhaps seeded myself too far back. My experience may well have been self inflicted, but the dark water, wetsuits, and congestion resulted in a beating unlike any I've experienced in other IMs. The swim course layout and canal is cool though and I bet for front-pack swimmers, a lot of fun. Agree as well that the reduction in mass swim starts is unfortunate, especially for folks trying to KQ, and that they'll probably need to modify the start (maybe a pontoon) to make this work.

You know who Sylvan is, right?

He really is THE GUY who keeps track of the time at the IM events.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

There is a huge difference on that swim course between the FOP swimmers and the middle of the bell curve swimmers.

I did it the first year and swam a 1:09 and thought it was too congested, especially the canal, and I was still 15 or 20 minutes faster than the average time. Every year since I have watched the race and the 1:00 and below folks really swim in different conditions from that perspective. Smooth water, they're spaced out nicely with lots of room to swim and maneuver, etc. It's a stark contrast to the 1:15-1:40 swimmers and that is more amplified in the canal.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Well, then either he, or Ironman needs to get their shit together.

Why?

I can echo your experience.....swam around 1:08 last year and it was a certifiable gong show in the canal with not that much open space. I can't imagine what the 1:15-1:30 zone was like. The canal was certainly way more congested than the start. I had a fast enough transition that I probably came out with most of the 1:05 guys, and the road was a bit too tight for my liking early on with too much speed differential between riders going through the urban areas. You really had to keep you head on while passing etc and likewise for the people being passed.

Does he clone himself on weekends when there's more than one race on other sides of the planet?

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Sportstats has teams in the US East and West Coast, Canada and Asia, so yes there are clones of Sylvan worldwide on every weekend working races across time zones with best in class industry proficiency when it comes to timing.

Because his facts, or the facts out of the Athlete guide are wrong.


That is why

If the course closes at 12-midnight, so be it. Anybody who starts after 7 am gets less than 17-hours to finish. A lot of these rolling starts take less than 20 minutes. Coeur d'Alene takes 15. That's why I gave a 06:56-23:56 example. If that's the case at IMTX the 12-midnight cut off is irrelevant since everybody will be over 17-hours before midnight. 17-hours+ is a DNF regardless of start time. At Cozumel the last wave start wasn't 'til 7:28:08 and they left the course open for 17 full hours after the last start: 12:28:08 am. That final cut-off time-of-day can be race-specific, but 17-hours is not. 17+ is always a DNF.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Also at the LP rolling start, once everyone seated themselves they had marshals at the start and they let groups of 30 people go but held the line for about 10-15 seconds before the next group went. Worked really well, a lot less congestion and body contact compared to the mass start.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Correct. I have been told the philosophy behind this method is IM is an individual event. Everyone has to race their own smart race. It's the one thing I don't like about rolling starts, just as you.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman