This great news!....IMLP rolling start was awesome. In terms of no wetsuit "grey zone" from what I understood from WTC, the no wetsuit guys would go first in a rolling start and then the wetsuit folks would go after that.

Yup. Wetsuits get corralled and sent after everybody else.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

i don't know about great news. the way the parking lot and park is set up I am not sure how we can get the athletes out and turned right without it causing a huge log jam.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

F-YEAH! Finally! Love the news. And screw you, drafters. This makes your crap harder to pull off.

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Sorry, but I don't understand your post knowing the set up of last year's race start....athletes would just line up in the same place they entered the water from last year and the clock would start as soon as they entered the water....course would be adjusted in distance (if any) at the turn buoys to account for extra swim distance to "last year's start line".

I understand that the clock wouldn't start until the athlete entered the water. The boat ramp you enter the water in is roughly 20' wide and it faces directly east entering the lake where we swim directly south. The water is about 3' deep at best along the right side so you need to get out away from the dock. In my estimation having done this race multiple times and others in the lake it just seems difficult to get it rolling fairly quickly like a true beach rolling start where you swim straight away ( think Zurich). Competitive swimmers completely lose their advantage to get out front of the pack and gets going. Even if I was a mediocre swimmer and as I entered the water people take off at varying speeds and it will be tougher to get out away from the shore and not feel on top of each other. The only solution might be to make an artificial beach like we have in the past for CB&I and roll like that but it's still only a half better solution. I'm honestly shocked that when they changed it they didn't go for a TT start since the start isn't a whole lot different than Louisville excpet you jump in at an angle at Louisville and can't walk In. being the north American championship (yes I know for pros) the start list in the AG is looking pretty stout.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

Tell me the details of how this start works. Is there a seeding of who goes first? About how long to get everyone in? Does this mean that when you are racing during the day, you don't really know your placement when passing/being passed? Kind of sucks, I like the simplicity of Fire the cannon and first person to the line wins.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

I don't have any personal experience with rolling starts as all my IM's have been mass start. My understanding with the rolling start is that people self seed themselves according to estimated swim finish. For example there might be a sub-1 hour group, a 1:00 to 1:10 group and so on. Then, the various groups are sent off together. This is different than a time trial start where everyone starts one at a time.

In Switzerland there was two groups sub 1:15 and above 1:15. That is the only one I have experience with.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

In LP they had sub 60, 60-65 min, 65-70, 70-75.... you just got in the corral where you thought you will finish and within the corral people asked each other "how fast" and you self seeded. I did 64, entered at the back for 60-65 and literally never passed or got passed. It was perfect. Actually all day I literally never passed or got passed, until I flatted and several 100 passed me and then I fixed it, and passed several hundred back, settled into my finishing position mid way through the bike and literally stayed there through the marathon!

x2

Just to clarify, does the clock begin for each person at the gun, or when they cross some start line? 2013 IMFL had a self seeded rolling start, but it was still figure the gun and start the race. That particular one was a total disaster (my opinion only). Worst ass kicking I have ever taken and I seeded exactly in the corral where I belonged.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Clock starts when you cross the line. It works fine, don't sweat it.

IM Louisville advertises their swim as a rolling start in the athlete's guide, and it's first come first serve (no self-seeding). I hear the line starts forming before 4am. So it appears there is some inconsistency in how a "rolling start" is executed from race to race?

IMFL 2013 was a mass start, not rolling start. They did have different corrals but everyone still went off all at once when the gun was fired.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Gotcha, whatever it was, it was a cluster#$%^.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

So we are talking about essentially a TT start (basically).

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

When I did it at IMCDA in 2013 - it was time based, self seeded.

I think so yes. IM Chatt was a rolling start, not seeded in any way. First to line up were the first into the water (other than the pros of course). Wetsuits in the rear. Your time begins when you enter the water.

It looks like the website is saying that Texas will be self seeding, with volunteers holding signs directing athletes on the swim times. I hope that's the case, because it worked well in Boulder, and we didn't have to stand in line for hours, and just jumped in where we wanted to start.

so, basically you won't have a clue where you are in relation to your competitors?! Nightmare for anyone chasing a kona slot. I guess this completely robs the event of any resemblance to a 'race'.
Dumbing down me-thinks!

How do you know where you are in relation to your competition in a mass start?? Unless there are two of you.

You'll be fine.

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Just like a TT...it's still a race....you need to go full throttle to the finish line.

What you do know is the last time that someone entered the water. So let's say you start 10 min after the first racer, all you have to do is ask the timing guys when you crossed how long it took everyone to start. The answer is likely 22-25 minutes based on previous race sends offs. So if you entered at 10 minutes, 15 minutes after you cross the finish line, your position is your final position. No one one can pass you after that. Until then, it's like be the skier at the bottom of the famed Hahnekammin run Kitzbuel with the best time, biting his/her nails to see if the time stands.....just a different type of race, but a race nonetheless.

This is terrific news. I raced IMTX last year when it was wetsuit legal and thought that, while it's a great race, the mass start in that narrow area was less than ideal. Very crowded the entire way and I got seriously beaten up. A rolling start makes a lot of sense for IMTX.

No race Dev in my view, you miss the real-time 'one on one' battle with your fellow AG competitors - as you know, a big factor on a multi-lap course is tracking your competitors, counting their lap bands - are you in a slot position etc, etc.
Just think WTC have knee-jerked a tad on this and are pandering to the 1st timers who maybe are nervous about the swim (altho' I've raced many & still get nervous). Commercial reasons for all this? If it prolongs our sport & attracts new folks then all good I guess but still dumbing-down and taking away the competitive angle...

Also it did occur to me that it would be easier to arrange my swim squad buddies on race morning so that we'll all start together and I can get a nice familiar draft - just kidding! ;-)

you're right...I will be cheering this year. hahaha. Quit pouting. i will be at practice tomorrow.

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Kirk Noyes

Downtubes are for Dinosaurs

From my perspective, this is a great development. I would estimate that a good 50% of the athletes in the water haven't done enough training or racing in open water to be deemed competent. So, it'll make the race safer, easier to manage and more fair with less possibility of drafting on the bike. All in all a step in the right direction.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
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Sorry, but how does a rolling start translate to safer swimming for those less competent. Surely with a mass start they should be starting at the back and/ or side, rather than the front or mid pack? And who is to say that they will honestly self seed?

Also, a lot of people have been saying that it'll cut down on drafting. How so? You're still going to have the same number of people all biking to their abilities on the course. Is a few minutes difference between getting in the water going to make that much difference?

Also, how's the finish managed? Midnight cut-off, or 17 (or whatever) hour cut-off, and if so, how does the finish line staff know if you've come in under the cut-off? Check your name against the chip time prior to the hug/t-shirt/medal fest?

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

The rolling start will thin out the pack. You won't have 2500+ people all starting at the same time. They will spread those people out over 20 minutes. It will be easier for safety personnel on the water to identify people in trouble more quickly. Also, with less of a concentration of athletes on the course safety personnel will be able to get to those athletes in distress quicker. Some people might place themselves in a start time that is far above their ability level in the swim and they will have to deal with the consequences of their decisions along with the safety assets on the course, but again with less concentration of athletes on the course at any one time it will make it safer and easier to manage for everyone. But again, this is from my perspective.

If you have less of a concentration of athletes going into the water and where they are spread out over 20 minutes (which is more than a few minutes), you will have less of a concentration of athletes coming out of the water and then onto the bike course. Fairly simple course management.

I don't know exactly how they will manage the 17 hour cutoff, but I would guess that the people that self-seed towards the front (faster triathletes) and would be getting an extra 20 minutes on the 17 hours cutoff, don't need 17 hours to finish. The people that are slower and self seed towards back will get 17 hours to finish. And, in my experience, at IMTX there are typically less than 20 people at end of the race that don't make the 17 hour cutoff.

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I do see your point about removing the head to head competition but in many 70.3 races we already have 3 waves per age group so we were already 10 minutes apart from the other guys and had to basically go full throttle to the end not knowing the actual position. So on the one hand, I like head to head, but it only works well in smaller events. Once the event gets fairly large, I am a big proponent of the rolling start as it makes the swim calmer and it also significantly reduces drafting early in the bike.

When IM races were 1000 people or even 1500 people in a wide start like Penticton, it was not too bad. Now with 2500-3000 people a different format is needed for a fair and safe race. The sport has to change with the times and still stay safe and fair. If they offer me 1000-1500 person wide beach or wide in water mass starts, I won't complain much. IM Texas has a wide enough start but with that many people in the race, the ride out of T2 will be much more calm with less congestion with the rolling start. If you are anti drafting, once you see experience it and see how much better it is, you will feel that is gets closer to restoring the "individual achievement" of the Ironman, which I would much rather have, rather than be in a drag race with someone in my age group during the last 10K of the run, when that guy swam 15 minutes slower than me, and rode up towards me in peloton and started the run with much fresher legs....there is no man to man competition in that. Might as well just make me run with a 15 lbs penalty backpack for trying to race clean and avoid packs....I'd rather that the race format is set up such that less packs are likely to form....rolling start helps that in a massive way.

Rolling start just makes a 2500-3000 person race more fair.

So... basically rolling starts are safer by concentrating on the back end of the field. But shouldn't the kayaks / boats be doing that anyways? At least with mass starts the safety crew can track with the backmarkers and be within a reasonable distance of anyone else who may run into trouble (and we've all heard of competent OW swimmers who have unforeseen problems, haven't we?)

Also, it does sound like you're leaving the overly ambitious self seeders to their fate.

I understand your point on the bike section, but stick by my comment that it's giving a disadvantage to the mediocre swimmer / stronger biker skill set. Likewise, you're left alone to race your race on the run, rather than knowing your competitors and how much time you've got on them/ they've got on you, and psychological aspect of that.

It does sound like they're changing the format to accommodate more starters than would be safe, and pandering to those who haven't / couldn't / wouldn't put in the relevant practice to have a degree of comfort in OW.

I've heard a number of arguments why rolling starts are good (IMUK is doing the same this year), but I'm still not convinced that it's not simply to dilute the experience for the benefit of those that arguable shouldn't be on the startline in the first place, and inflating numbers for greater profit. I'm looking forward to further comments on the subject though.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

maybe this is primarily philosophical, but I also don't like the TT format because in essence, the competitors don't necessarily face the same conditions.

20 minutes later, it might be a wetter course, or a hotter course or a windier course. I don't like that two people are compared on different conditions. Granted 20 minutes is not a big time frame, but some 70.3s spread out the start over a very long duration (hour or more) and people are racing for 4.5 to 5 hours. That is a significant change in conditions.

Like I said, mostly philosophical, it would only come into play if say it was raining hard on / off and one guy got 20 more minutes of dry than the other.

I have basically given up this fight, I want to race, so sometimes it is not ideal.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

If the last starter is timed at 6:56, the final cutoff will be 11:56 pm. Anybody who finishes before that, but goes over 17 hours, is officially a DNF, but they'll get a medal and a hug and I assume a shirt. Nobody's checking for sub-17 in the finish chute although it could be done. I'm looking at the final times and know if somebody is over 17, but I'm not sure there's anything to be gained by going full-on finisher-nazi in the chute and withholding finisher swag from 17+ "finishers". They've pretty much always gotten medals anyway if they come in after midnight, as long as it's not 2:30 am and everybody's gone.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Sucks to be the guy/gal who comes in after the cut-off at another race and is told nah, you're too late, or gets pulled off the course because they're just outside a course cut-off point on the run. But like you say, they'll usually end up with the swag if they make it to the finish line irregardless of the time they do it in.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

We clearly had very different race experiences. There is plenty of room to line up in the water in front of the bridge and seed yourself accordingly for a mass start. It was one of the clearest races off the start I've ever done. I dont see how this is gonna work off that tiny boat ramp. 5 across can make it in at a time, maybe. This seems like a solution to a problem that didnt exist at this race. Its essentially the same at IMWI as well. It would be nice to keep a few races mass start to you can still go head to head if that means doing all men and all women wave starts 5-10 minutes apart.

I can't tell if you're joking, or you just that dumb.

Sure sounds like it. To be fair, I'm merely an average swimmer and perhaps seeded myself too far back. My experience may well have been self inflicted, but the dark water, wetsuits, and congestion resulted in a beating unlike any I've experienced in other IMs. The swim course layout and canal is cool though and I bet for front-pack swimmers, a lot of fun. Agree as well that the reduction in mass swim starts is unfortunate, especially for folks trying to KQ, and that they'll probably need to modify the start (maybe a pontoon) to make this work.

You know who Sylvan is, right?

He really is THE GUY who keeps track of the time at the IM events.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

There is a huge difference on that swim course between the FOP swimmers and the middle of the bell curve swimmers.

I did it the first year and swam a 1:09 and thought it was too congested, especially the canal, and I was still 15 or 20 minutes faster than the average time. Every year since I have watched the race and the 1:00 and below folks really swim in different conditions from that perspective. Smooth water, they're spaced out nicely with lots of room to swim and maneuver, etc. It's a stark contrast to the 1:15-1:40 swimmers and that is more amplified in the canal.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Well, then either he, or Ironman needs to get their shit together.

Why?

I can echo your experience.....swam around 1:08 last year and it was a certifiable gong show in the canal with not that much open space. I can't imagine what the 1:15-1:30 zone was like. The canal was certainly way more congested than the start. I had a fast enough transition that I probably came out with most of the 1:05 guys, and the road was a bit too tight for my liking early on with too much speed differential between riders going through the urban areas. You really had to keep you head on while passing etc and likewise for the people being passed.

Does he clone himself on weekends when there's more than one race on other sides of the planet?

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Sportstats has teams in the US East and West Coast, Canada and Asia, so yes there are clones of Sylvan worldwide on every weekend working races across time zones with best in class industry proficiency when it comes to timing.

Because his facts, or the facts out of the Athlete guide are wrong.


That is why

If the course closes at 12-midnight, so be it. Anybody who starts after 7 am gets less than 17-hours to finish. A lot of these rolling starts take less than 20 minutes. Coeur d'Alene takes 15. That's why I gave a 06:56-23:56 example. If that's the case at IMTX the 12-midnight cut off is irrelevant since everybody will be over 17-hours before midnight. 17-hours+ is a DNF regardless of start time. At Cozumel the last wave start wasn't 'til 7:28:08 and they left the course open for 17 full hours after the last start: 12:28:08 am. That final cut-off time-of-day can be race-specific, but 17-hours is not. 17+ is always a DNF.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Also at the LP rolling start, once everyone seated themselves they had marshals at the start and they let groups of 30 people go but held the line for about 10-15 seconds before the next group went. Worked really well, a lot less congestion and body contact compared to the mass start.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Correct. I have been told the philosophy behind this method is IM is an individual event. Everyone has to race their own smart race. It's the one thing I don't like about rolling starts, just as you.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Because you're down in the water, it 'feels' more crowded than it is. This is a photo of the waterway right by the finish at the busiest time...

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Badig| Strava

How did you manage to get that picture when you are always one of the first out of the water TJ?

jake

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Get outside!

Dev-

wondering how they handle pre-swim warmup on the rolling start. I'm one of those old guys that need to warm up before I start to race...

Good to see WTC is erasing the psychological effect of being chased/ chasing down a competitor. Does this mean there's no drafting in the swim either, since everyone's racing their own race (pink)

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

Then the answer to him is simple - the same way as you have been doing it at other IM events the past 2 years.

In 2015 theyre also introducing a rolling start at IM Switzerland. According to the website it will be:

What is a rolling start?
Athletes will line up according to their realistic (!) predicted swim time (self-seeding) and every five seconds, we will send out ten athletes. It will take approximately 20 minutes to get the entire field across the swim start line.
In effect, this will create a “time trial” dynamic for the race and for the determination of the final results.

Please notice: The predicted swim time does not have to be communicated to the race officials in advance.


Originally from: http://m.ironman.com/...t.aspx#ixzz3UxoZSpOe

At IMLP a few years ago, they had a warm up zone that was actually just beside the departure point. It was actually the chute for the swim finish which was doubling as the warm up zone. After your warmup, you can came back and you walked through the "swim finish" and across to the "swim start" corrals. For some reason that year I did not read the athlete guide (It was my 11th time at IMLP, and only showed up at the start at 6:27 (had only woken up at 5 am). Was at the start 3 min before the gun went off (normal swim start was at 7 am, so I just planned my day based on that). As it turned out, I was able to start at a relaxed warmup pace anyway and did not need my normal "anti freak out' warmup.

I did Ironman Chattanooga -- had rolling start. It is indeed a race. I would even call it more of a race but its a race against time not against your fellow AGer running next to you. It adds to the race in my mind, not knowing much about what your position is. All you can do is to try to max out without blowing up. No tactics, just give it all you got and see where the cards fall. Isnt that racing?

On the positive side, it adds a lot of safety. I had basically zero contact during the swim. I have never had anxciety but I cannot see how it can be a bad thing that WTC focuses on safety. Ironman is supposed to be damn hard but not unsafe in my view.

IMMD was a rolling start on a boat ramp. It was self-seeding with it only being a bit cramped at start since they were letting 8-10 wide enter the water at once. I liked it because it helped space out the people in T1 and on the bike. You also had no issues seeding yourself wherever you wanted to start and you did not need to lineup early. It seemed like most people took their time getting into the water.

I did Chattanooga last year and IMLou as well in 2013 with a TT start. The issue I have with rolling starts is waiting in line for so long before the start. I also did Texas last year and it was my first mass start IM. I am slow swimmer (1:30 at Texas) and I didn't have much of a problem with the mass start because I stayed out of the way. I stayed on the edge on the right side and by doing this I was only around a handful of swimmers. If you're a strong swimmer then by all means go in the middle or near the front if you want. Trust me if you are a sub 1:15 I won't get in your way. :).

Here is my opinion on a TT/ rolling start.You have your pros the way they do it and then you create an elite field for ALL age groupers.You have to 'qualify' (I don't mean Kona) to get into this elite field. Meaning you have to have completed another full or half distance and been in say the top 5% (I open to idea's on the %) of your age group. So even if you're 70 years old and you are in the top '5%' you are entitled to this elite field. You then have the choice if you want to start after the pros or go into a seeding the way Lake Placid does it.

The Hartford Marathon does something called preferred seeding. I had to run sub 1:40ish for a 1/2 marathon or a sub 3:30 based on my age group.

So maybe we call this preferred seeding and not elite field.

Full disclosure: I am NOT in this top 5%. I just don't think it's fair for someone who is say a sub 11:00 IM has to pass potentially over a 1,000 people or more. So I know it means I am waiting in line which I am okay with until I earn it.

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14X Ironman. Still slow but working on it.

I've long been a proponent of a slightly modified version of this. I think it'd be a great idea if there was a "Kona" start and then a rolling start 10 minutes later. The Kona wave would be self selecting and no qualification necessary to get in it. But, if you want a shot at Kona you've got to start in this wave. Everyone else does a rolling start 10 minutes later.

This preserves the "race" aspect for the pointy end of the field and also creates a friendlier and safer environment for everyone else.

Even better - You get seeded by previous Ironman or Half Ironman SWIM times. (People can be a fast overall Ironman finisher and still be slow in the swim). If you don't have a previous time, you start in the back. Ironman can hold openwater swim tests for a fee to get you an official time. A way for them to make extra bucks, which they do seem to be in love with.

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Wow, some just make too much of this. I assume the rolling start at IMLT is the same as others. They have folks standing around with signs and times. But you can go anywhere you want at any time
you want. No rush to get their early. I decided to start towards the front and tried to stay at the side.

As far as a swim warm up, since so many races I do are so cold that no way will I ever do a pre swim again, one just needs to do some running, jumping jacks, etc. that gets the heart rate going.
I see no reason to need a pre swim for a IM distance anyways.
.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

There are many good reasons for a warm up swim.

could not agree more.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

My point is for some races you cannot get a warm up swim, so one better have a process ready just in case.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I believe the warmup swim is mandatory at all WTC races per their SwimSmart initiative.

Mandatory is in it's available and not that you'd have to do it.

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Dev, to me, the simplest way to fix this is to make it the same way running races do it:

Your "official time" is chip time, and cutoffs are based on your chip time. For overall and age group awards (Kona slots), it's based on gun time. Just puts some of the head-to-head dynamic back in the race while also giving people the seeding in the swim start. Considering that, for most AGs, Kona slots will wind up out of the water in 1:10-1:15…how long does it take for that group to hit the water?

I just would like to see head-to-head continue. I think it adds an element of simplicity and elegance to the proceedings: the person who gets to the finish line first wins.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I think the simplest way is to have age group waves. That way you are still racing head to head for a Kona spot and you spread the field out.

One problem with that solution is that it's unfair to the fast swimmers in the waves that start later on. They have to swim around a ton of "bobs" that went in earlier waves so they are put at disadvantage to the slower swimmers in their age group who won't have to swim around any or many others.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Of course they should learn to swim faster:)

I would agree that a "Kona wave" makes good sense but can just imagine 90% of the field would chose that group thinking the magic sh*t might just happen for them on that day.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Nola70.3 doesn't do it. They should, but can't as far as I can tell (logistically). They are a WTC branded race, but it is not run by WTC.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

And this again is my point. For whatever reasons, at some races one might not be able to do a swim warm up. So one better have a plan and process
to get warmed up before the swim start. After getting hypothermia from doing a swim warmup early in the season in 52 degree water, I will never ever do that again.
So I just keep the warm clothes, wetsuit on right before the swim start, doing some running, jumping jacks, etc. Whatever it takes to get my heart rate up before
I start the swim. Have read a number of articles on pros doing the same, Andy Potts was the lasted video I watched with him talking about it.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I am not sure that is true. I think it is true about a lot of people on slowtwitch, but it isn't true in general. In general people do not like to embarrass themselves. Even the Type As.

The Kona wave will happen, but it will likely be sold not earned...

Simple... no Candy Ass grey zone. Do it as ITU does... all wetsuits or all not.

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___________________________________________
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Because TJ didn't race last year.

Did you just type 'irregardless'?

^ this. Or my transition spot was REALLY far away.

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Badig| Strava

Too bad for those of us who want to race. In a mass start or wave start you are racing head to head meaning if you pass someone you are ahead of them. In TT start you can finish ahead of someone and still get beat.

Not if, like in many IM 70.3 races, they split some AGs into 2 or 3 different waves.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

There is no such word as 'irregardless'

And that's your take away from my post? You must be a blast at refereeing street countdown.

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

If I recall, they got all 2000+ athletes into the water in 90sec at IMCDA the year I did it.

I am reasonably certain all of my competition were in the water within 20sec of me which in an IM is as good as starting together.

I think you will find the change to be better for the overall race experience. The swim will start faster most likely, since you won't have to wait while the masses slowly wade to the deep water start.

Jack

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I think 90 seconds is being a little generous. Probably more like 10-15 minutes.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Yeah, I was in the 1-1:15 group (near the last quarter of people) and I was in the water about 90sec after the first person, so 10min or more for everyone. Doesn't really change my point, which is that there won't be much separation for competitive people.

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Coeur d'Alene is about 14 minutes and it's the fastest. Lake Placid was 18 minutes. Boulder 22 minutes. Depends on how wide they can go. Louisville takes 40 minutes because of the narrow dock. Chattanooga was 30 minutes - same reason. Not sure what Woodlands will be like but I'm guessing about 20 minutes. They're not bottlenecked by a dock but it's not as wide open as the beach at CDA. Coeur d'Alene is also perfect for a warmup before the start. They just cordon off a decent-sized area of lake parallel to the path you're walking along the beach to get to the start. Woodlands will probably be a bit tighter but they'll figure something out.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

I just completed IM Melbourne which had a rolling start, 6 at a time. I have always been a big fan of mass starts because of the draft, you are literally pulled away and the swim can be effortless

While this years swim was a lot less messy (and harder as a result), i noticed there was ALOT less packs and drafting on the bike. The difference was night and day. Think when you have 2500 spread out over 30 mins, its has an impact on the bike course. It was a much fairer race!!!! No packs and maybe a few tiny paletons (small ones)

Unfortunately, this is probably the way forward, will miss the mass starts but the upside is a much fairer bike leg

Good point. My takeaway is that you lack a rudimentary knowledge of the English language.

My bad, the OP lacks basic English skills is what I took away.

I think he got sucked into that hippy crowd and never found his way out of T1
Was a little disappointed to hear about the rolling start. I understand what WTC is trying to do but I would prefer knowing that everyone in my age group started at the same time.

How wide is the dock at Louisville? The dock at Lake Woodlands is roughly 15-20 people wide (guessing) with a wooden dock extending out. I would guess total time could be closer to the 40 min mark like Louisville. Last question, Is the rolling start on the swim specifically used to cut down on drafting on the bike? I can only believe that would be the case for this race. Some buddies of mine were really beaten up during the swim last year, but they hung out by the dock in the beginning. I swam out to the middle of the lake for the start and while i did run into folks on the way out, i had a pretty easy swim ( I am not a fast swimmer, finished 1:11). I ran into more folks in the canal than i did in the lake. I am just wondering what others thought about the reason to turn from mass to rolling.

Louisville essentially puts the entire field through a single file line. When you get close to the start, the line gets split into two for actually entering the water, but the bottleneck is the single file line getting down to the docks.

There's ongoing construction along both sides of the waterway just east of the finish line that won't be completed prior to the race (the south side *may* be finished but the north side definitely will not be). I'm curious to see how they reroute the run.

Previous year's map: Link

Picture from mid-February, taken from the bridge that the finish line sits on:

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South side pedestrian bridge will be open. The north side though there are a few options being sorted out. Good chance everyone will head off the waterway (like you're heading to the finish) and then multi loopers will drop back down in and around the fountains. I haven't spoken with anyone at WTC, but the rate that they are building the hotel makes it seem close that the building will be closed in by race day, meaning that I still have hope a carpet/trail along the water might be possible for those 400 feet.

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Badig| Strava

I spoke with the superintendent for the hotel today and he said that optimistically, the tower crane will come down in June. The main tower of the hotel is dried in about halfway up but the surrounding steel structure still has a fair amount of work to be done. For safety reasons I don't think they'll allow runners through the job site, crane or no crane. Glad to hear there are alternates.

I haven't talked with my contacts on the bridge project in awhile so I didn't know the south side would be open. They'll be cutting it close if that's the case.

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Ditto. No issues. Slight angle to the right upon entry. no big deal

IMFL 2013 was a shit show with the start. Horrendous.

And the thing with IMFL is that ease with which people can cut the course at the top and 2013 only accentuated that.

Bob

"Shit show." Yep, that's spot on!

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I've done it every year since 2009. It's the same every year. Last year however was the single exception.

What is this horse hockey?? No Friday packet pickup?

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2011, 2012, 2013 for me. 2013 was only time with "corrals/rolling start." To me it was much worse, of course conditions sucked that year too.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

That's nothing new. There never is packet pickup the day before an IM.

Sucks to be me. I haven't completed iron distance since 2004. I hadn't considered that I'd need an extra day off to travel and entertain myself.

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That's actually one of my biggest gripes. It's an obvious and blatant money grab to get people to spend more money on the race venue. Reeks of squeezing every penny out of the customer by raking them over a forced coal bed of nowhereelsetogo.

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That does suck. Luckily we don't have to put up with that in the England or Wales (yet).

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Swim. Overbike. Walk.

You might want to check out IM Maryland

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.