Nice repeat of a previous post but again no solid proof. It's like talking to RainMan sometimes on this board.

She cheated ,got busted, served her time. Thats the way WADA works. I could care less what she does in sport, but I believe that there has to be a system in place, no matter how imperfect the current system is, that allows for people to screw up, come clean (no pun intended), and be allowed back into society. She is forever tarnished in the tri world, but served her time.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

"ok. so basically you're saying that she should have done like everyone else caught doping, lie to everyone and say 'I didn't do it, it was for my dog, I had a cold, I was a bit tired' you name it...and start a court process then today she'd be free to race...because her case would be like the case of Berasategui and co. so she would be cleared of all charges and no one would think twice about it... "



Did you say that? ;-)

I believe that people who can prove that they didn't use EPO should be allowed to race.

I believe that people who admit they took EPO on purpose to win should be banned for life.

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Tri Hard !

Berasategui proved she didn't use EPO??? LOL...all she did (as well as others who tested + in Lanzarote) was to say 'hey, I'm like Beke'

"And you know this for certain? Did you have a conversation with her? Did you read her mind? Or are you just spouting off your personal beliefs? "


"I don't think either way, but you seem to know something that you implied that she would cheat again. Would she? And if you know this to be a fact prove it. "

"My point is your saying something without having any fact(s) to prove it other than a at best hunch. Truth? Show me the truth, if you have anything to prove it other than a thought in your head. Thats all I ask, nothing too hard for someone making bold statements such as you are, since you surely must have proof, other than your thoughts, to make a statement like that."


"Nice repeat of a previous post but again no solid proof. "



"It's like talking to RainMan sometimes on this board." - You got that right Dude



Cheaters Cheat Dude

I agree. The very sad thing is, as one has already posted, she did it for the sole purpose of winning. She took the moment away from an athlete. What would be the feelings if one of you supporters was the one in second who watched her be lauded and praised at Kona's finish line? Yes, it was Natasha, and she won many, but what if it was an athlete who had 1 time on top? Also, to compare running red lights, drafting, etc with this is to be a complete moron. No comparison whatsoever. Those who support....what would you say if Lance says now, oh well, I cheated for two of those stages, but was clean later....is that ok? Get real, she did the cardinal sin....no coming back.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

You'd be the complete moron for not realizing that drafting and doping are done for exactly the same reasons.

Again, very weak. I would expect a better argument from you. Also, there are marshals to hopefully enforce the drafting, and camera crews to record it. How do you see what's inside a system? Also, sorry, but I sure disagree that drafting and drugs are on the same level. Very sad.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

It's not weak...you just do not get it...pretty obvious when reading your answer.
Drafting and doping are both done for the same reason. Go faster, finish higher in the rankings.
Drafting and doping are cheating.

Drafting in an IM will likely yield the same resuts as taking EPO...to convince yourself, look at the bike split at IM Germany 2002...300 riders under 5h...with blatant drafting.
Cameras are irrelevant to take care of drafting. When did you last see someone getting caught because someone else filmed it???

And the drafting rule is enforced?? yeah...just as well as doping tests take all the dopers.

I have to say, I agree with clam. She may be a wonderful person befitting numerous awards and accolades, I don't know her, so I can't argue any of that. But in a sport where the sheer purpose is to test oneself physically and mentally, she cheated. We call people who draft in races cheaters. We knock the people who cheated in the Marine marathon. Is this any different?

I will give her credit for standing up and taking the blame. That in itself shows extraordinary character. But it does nothing to negate the fact that she still cheated. I am sure many of you who know her or have met her want to see her come back and do well, and I understand that. I, for one, do not. She cheated on the biggest stage this sport has. Kona is hallowed ground and few in this sport can honestly say they do not dream of racing there. To cheat on the most important race in our sport disrepects not only the other pros and the race itself, it shows disrespect to every triathlete.

Note, I said our sport. From the stud running sub 3 marathons to the back of packer shuffling in at 16:55, we share one thing in common. Triathlon. We pride ourselves on our toughness and our discipline. We talk about how we train and we diet. We admire the four hour trainer ride for not only its physical toughness, but for the rock solid determination it takes. We all share this sport, whether we stand on a podium or not. For her to knowingly cheat is flat out disrespectful to the sport and the people who work hard to cross that finish line.

I hope, and am pretty sure, Nina feels bad about what she did. I imagine she wants nothing more than to return to racing the sport she loves. If she does I will not boo nor jeer. But she will be the only athlete that day that I will not cheer across the finish line.

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- Nick
Now that I know some of you guys look through the special needs bags for kicks, I'm gonna put some really weird stuff in mine. I can see it now. "What the heck was he going to do with a family pack of KFC chicken, a football helmet full of peanut butter, a 12 inch rubber dildo, and naked pictures of Bea Arthur?"

And the "long-term studies say drafting will cause potential birth defects in children, and possible death, as banned substances will? Seems there are different reasons for the 2 things being illegal. Too bad you can't see the difference.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

you've seen long term studies that show that EPO cause birth defects in children??? Where?

this has nothing to do with what we are talking about anyway. We are talking about whether this is cheating. Drafting is cheating, just like doping. You're talking about health issues. It has nothing to do with the current discussion. Not to mention that, this is her choice to take something. It wrecks her health. Not yours. Not mine.

Nick, Very well said. My sentiments exactly.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

since when did this get from drafting is cheating, PEDs are cheating to a comparision about which can cause birth defects?

both are done to improve one's time and/or placing. Both are illegal, one just comes with a 4 min penalty and the odds that your not getting caught in an IMNA race, the other comes with a two year ban and the odds that the test results can be beat (and now that flaws have been exposed in the current EPO test, the odds that the test results may be wrong or they may be right).

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

If you ban someone FOR LIFE who ADMITTED that they cheated , then what greater punishment do you give to someone who lies about cheating, takes it to court, uses an inordinate amount of the systems time and in the end IS PROVEN to have cheated. Do you you ban them for DOUBLE LIFE????
She cheated, admitted to it right away, served her time as per the rules and now is eligible to compete. The biggest punishment to her is her own conscience and feeling of guilt. What if she competes and is running down the home stretch in 1st place, how do you think she'll feel. She knows people out there will think she cheated again. Boy ,that would be one tough position to be in. She IS being punished for life.

No. I would ban them for life as well.

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Tri Hard !

Well then you need to spend your time working on changing the rules. That's the way our society works!!!!

As before, you misunderstood. Drug use(steroid, EPO, whatever) is banned partially because of the health problems long term. No long term studies have been able to be done ensuring the safety of the drugs. Yes, the performance benefits are the reason one takes said drugs, but that is not the whole reason for banning them.

And yes, this is what was being addressed. The subject was Nina Kraft, who ADMITTED using an illegal drug!

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Can she race Kona in 06? I think she learned her lesson I hope she does well.

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-----------------------:)
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I understood this topic to be discussing a variety of views as to how Kraft should be treated.

Some think she should be left alone.

Some think she should be banned for life.

I don't think the onus is on me to undertake systemic change. I"m just participating in a discussion.

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Tri Hard !

Nina Kraft will auch noch nicht von einem bevorstehenden Comeback sprechen: «Ich setze nur das fort, was ich begonnen habe. Der Sport macht mir wieder Spass. Ich habe eine andere Einstellung gefunden, will nichts mehr erzwingen, keinen Einflüssen von aussen nachgeben.»

Trans: Nina doesn't want to speak of a planned Comeback "I'm only putting forth what I've begun. The sport is fun for me again. I have now found a different training method, don't want to be a slave to pressure and outside influences."

Nina Kraft kann sich erst wieder für Hawaii 2007 qualifizieren. Dies sei auch ihr Ziel. «Zwei, drei Jahre will ich als Profi-Triathletin noch arbeiten. Jeder macht mal einen Fehler, auch mal einen grossen. Ich glaube an das Gute und dass jeder eine zweite Chance verdient hat», sagte Kraft, die eine Fernausbildung zur Mentaltrainerin und Ernährungsberaterin begonnen hat.

Trans: Nina Kraft can next qualify for Hawaii in 2007. THis is also her goal. "Two, three years is how long I want to work as a professional Triathlete. Everyone makes a mistake once in a while, and also sometimes a big one. I believe in what's good/right, and that everyone deserves a second chance" said Kraft, who started a distance program as sports psychology trainer and dietician.


The rest is filler stuff.

System change starts with a discussion like this. If enough people think the rules are ineffective, the masses have more strength than an individual. I for one wish ALL drug use would stop, because it also takes away from those that achieve great performances while being "clean". We ALL suffer because of them.

Thanks, E. So much easier to understand than an automatic translation.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Francois, I don't understand how you can forgive Nina Kraft for doping but you hate Lance Armstrong for allegedly doping.

When I heard that Nina's boyfriend was her coach I immediately thought he influenced her down that path. That said, I don't think she should return to this sport. She will find herself very unwelcome, particularly in Kona.

I hope I used proper English and spelling in this post!

Those auto-translations are about as accurate as the weather forecast.