Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers
Quote | Reply
Tacx just announced the Neo Smart trainer. Looks to be very similar to the Wahoo Kickr. I've been thinking about getting a trainer and the Wahoo Kickr was my top choice. The Neo Smart is giving me second thoughts. I like the fact the Neo Smart is able to simulate downhills with the built in motor, if I'm understanding the hype correctly. Any thoughts comments?
Last edited by: scrappy_dude: Sep 6, 15 10:26
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scrappy_dude wrote:
Tracx just announced the Neo Smart trainer. Looks to be very similar to the Wahoo Kickr. I've been thinking about getting a trainer and the Wahoo Kickr was my top choice. The Neo Smart is giving me second thoughts. I like the fact the Neo Smart is able to simulate downhills with the built in motor, if I'm understanding the hype correctly. Any thoughts comments?


It does look like an awesome trainer. Maybe DC Rainmaker will review it. Also, it's Tacx not Tracx :)

I can give you 25% off Roka Sunglasses! Message me for details! Currently 1 code left! Code must be be redeemed by December 31!
Powered by All Out MultiSport - http://www.aomultisport.com/

Last edited by: BryanD: Aug 20, 15 20:10
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm very interested in people's thoughts about this too.
I'm also close to pulling the trigger on a Kickr but wondering whether perhaps it's worth waiting for/spending more on the Neo.

I don't care much about the pedalling downhill capability.

The perceived advantages of the Neo to me are:
1. Quiet
2. Rocking action
3. 'True direct drive' may mean higher accuracy, less drift, longer wearing

The perceived disadvantages of the Neo to me:
1. Relatively unproven - may have teething problems with software rtf
2. Relatively unproven - may turn out to have other issues

Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'e had a KICKR since it was first released in early-2013. I love the thing... as much as you can love a trainer. I plan on buying the Tacx Neo Smart though and giving it a try.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The true cost seems problematic. Does the Neo Smart come with the Advanced 4 software and/or do you need the Upgrade Smart? I have some Tacx videos and they are smartly done, but expensive. With Trainer Road, Zwift, and so many other options, what, other than the hardware, makes this a sensible upgrade? Ultimately, this sort of training device must translate into improved performance/enjoyability, or, at least, keep me from getting worse than I already am.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They also claim that it will operate like a standard fluid trainer when in a completely unpowered mode.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Have they provided enough information to know if you can mount a MTB?

KQ strategy - Outlive the competition
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Robert wrote:
The true cost seems problematic. Does the Neo Smart come with the Advanced 4 software and/or do you need the Upgrade Smart? I have some Tacx videos and they are smartly done, but expensive. With Trainer Road, Zwift, and so many other options, what, other than the hardware, makes this a sensible upgrade? Ultimately, this sort of training device must translate into improved performance/enjoyability, or, at least, keep me from getting worse than I already am.

-Robert

There's some serious translation issues on their software page, but it looks like this thing supports or can be upgraded to support ANT+ FE-C (the latest controllable equipment spec), which means most apps will be able to talk to it: http://www.tacx.com/...ners/neo-smart#tab_3

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [AHare] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tacx has indicated the Neo will be released with support for ANT+ FE-C already in the firmware. I think Neo 'one-ups' the Kickr in that the direct drive feature requires no spin-down and when plugged into the home electrical supply, if the application being used supports it, the Neo will power the rear wheel on downhills such as in Tacx Real Life Video's or GPS rides. It would be nice to know if the Neo will broadcast speed and cadence data the companies other SMART trainers do as the design makes it more difficult to use an existing ANT+ speed sensor (typically mounted on the rear non-drive side stay) for recording speed data when recording with a cycle computer.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Aug 21, 15 6:55
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [AHare] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Right. Their marketing is not clear. Probably a language issue, but if they want to sell internationally, they should consider better communication, including good English, or if they really want snob appeal, FRENCH!

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It certainly appears compelling, but it's pretty hard to compare a product that doesn't actually exist yet.

If the price of the Neo doesn't scare you off (~1600 based off of europe pre-orders) and you don't need/want a smart trainer right away it's probably worth waiting out actual comprehensive reviews. In the mean time, I'd keep your eyes open for deals on the Kickr in the holiday build up. At MSRP for both maybe the Neo will be worth the extra cost, but I suspect one will be available at discount this year and the other will most certainly not.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
If the price of the Neo doesn't scare you off (~1600 based off of europe pre-orders

Looks like Bike24 in Germany is offering pre-orders for the Tacx NEO Smart T2800 Cycletrainer for only 1099 ($1251.54)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Except, they don't tell you what you get! Or what else you might need or want. Tacx is bad about the "add-ons"....

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Robert wrote:
Except, they don't tell you what you get! Or what else you might need or want. Tacx is bad about the "add-ons"....
Tacx's strategy for the SMART trainers has been pretty straight forward in that what you are purchasing is the trainer which includes the motorbrake, stand, and a front wheel support. Additional accessories available for purchase separately would include a handlebar clip on holder contraption for a tablet, the Upgrade SMART T2990 which is really only necessary if you want to use the trainer with Tacx's desktop software, and a Tacx steering unit for use in the Tacx VR worlds. The upgrade SMART kit includes a Tacx ANT+ powered USB antenna, ANT+ handle bar controller (from iGenius), and TTS Advanced. If all you want to do is use a SMART trainer with 3rd party FE-C compatible apps like Zwift or Trainer Road, then I think all that is required is device that is ANT+ capable or desktop PC with an ANT+ USB antenna.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ms6073 wrote:
Robert wrote:
If all you want to do is use a SMART trainer with 3rd party FE-C compatible apps like Zwift or Trainer Road, then I think all that is required is device that is ANT+ capable or desktop PC with an ANT+ USB antenna.

I have a Tacx Bushido Smart. I have used both Trainer Road and Zwift. As mentioned all you need is a computer with Ant+ dongle. Both programs will control the Tacx Smart trainer. I would add an extension usb cable to get a better signal.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Tri-Mot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri-Mot wrote:
As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.

My experience as well (I owned 2 Bushido trainers in the past): Bushido controller + software sucks and the build quality is poor (lots of corrosion and plastic bits falling off). Hopefully the new device is can set a better standard.
No compaints about the Kickr so far after 1.5 years very intensive use.
Sam
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sgy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
look at it this way.

would you want a tact neo

or

kickr and brand new wetsuit

i went with the kickr and maverick pro (on sale it was 470), i didn't own a full sleeve suit, so it made sense for me.

john

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sgy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sgy wrote:
Tri-Mot wrote:
As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.


My experience as well (I owned 2 Bushido trainers in the past): Bushido controller + software sucks and the build quality is poor (lots of corrosion and plastic bits falling off). Hopefully the new device is can set a better standard.
No compaints about the Kickr so far after 1.5 years very intensive use.
Sam

This was my, and a few friend's, experience as well with their imagic series of VR trainers. Terrible software, and non-existent support from the company. All you needed to do was check out one of the Tacx forums to see all the complaints. If you value the support available from folks like Racermate (Computrainer) and Wahoo, then I would stay far away from Tacx, regardless of price. .02
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am pretty excited about this, seems perfect, so whats wrong with it! I am still not 100% certain what i am getting with a "smart" trainer since i have no issues and hit my zones no problem on my trainer thats not so smart.

_________________
Every Man Jack http://teamemj.com/ https://www.instagram.com/toothengineer/ https://www.strava.com/dashboard
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [gibson00] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gibson00 wrote:
This was my, and a few friend's, experience as well with their imagic series of VR trainers. Terrible software, and non-existent support from the company. All you needed to do was check out one of the Tacx forums to see all the complaints. If you value the support available from folks like Racermate (Computrainer) and Wahoo, then I would stay far away from Tacx, regardless of price. .02

Like others I like the idea of the Neo, but I think back to about six years ago when I was deciding between a CompuTrainer and the Tacx models and ultimately it was witnessing the trail of tears in their support forum that pushed me away. Oddly enough I think in some ways the community support for the CT has degraded in that time, but Tacx still has an unfortunate earned reputation for poor support and communication with people based in North America. Europeans may have a different experience but I'm not sure. I have a good working smart trainer setup but even so I would feel a bit gun shy to see if others have had good experiences on the Neo, which in my book means that they have worked through at least on issue to their satisfaction.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [SamuelMedway] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SamuelMedway wrote:

The perceived advantages of the Neo to me are:
1. Quiet
2. Rocking action
3. 'True direct drive' may mean higher accuracy, less drift, longer wearing

Is it definitive that the Neo has a "rocking action" ? - I looked at it and the design intuitively looks as though it could be "rockable" but I could not find a reference to that function...there's a good chance that I'm just blind and just didn't see it.

Cheers,

Niall
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dgran] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dgran wrote:
Tacx still has an unfortunate earned reputation for poor support and communication with people based in North America.

Having experienced both the good and the bad times with Tacx, I am not going to argue. The original Tacx Fortius VR and while the Fortius software had bugs, for watt-time or slope time intervals it worked very well. For me, the problems started when the company outsourced software development and started marketing Tacx branded 3rd party apps but others had great heart ache with the companies introduction of new trainers/technology that essentially orphaned the legacy products. Not really that hard to find similar examples in other markets such as the automobile industry where Ford deprecated the Ford Touch technology and replaced Microsoft Sync with BlackBerry.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Sep 1, 15 20:06
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DC did a sound test!

+1 for the tacx Neo I would say.
I know that the kickr gets much lowder if you speed up the cadence...
The neo will stay almost noisless level, regardless wich cadence/speed you ride.

I had the chance to ride it at the eurobike too. it felt rocket stable also during sprints and the build quality seemed to be okay from the outside.
the riding is similar to the kickr, but way better on lower cadance and higher wattage...
hope it will be longlasting too.

I ordered one and they said it will be available arround mid sept.
I don't really care about common tacx software issues, as i am going to ride with zwift, virtualtraining or my garmin device.

other facts they told me:
accuracy: within 2%
nill temp drift, no spindown
no re-calibration needed with a special tool like the treatment the kickr needs from time to time
open ANT+ standart, ride every software you want to
Last edited by: derpuma: Sep 1, 15 23:55
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [derpuma] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice to hear it, while I wouldn't quite call it silent it's definitely the quietest trainer I've ever heard.

I have no plans to get a Neo but always good to see the technology advancing and fostering more competition which is always ultimately better for the consumer. I can't see Wahoo's market share significantly decreasing due to the Neo though based on cost. If they started to feel the squeeze, I suspect Wahoo could push the KICKR in right/at below 1k USD which is a somewhat magic pricepoint.

In theory, you'd think the real loser would be the CompuTrainer since it basically has price parity with the Neo but with significantly antiquated technology in comparison. However, the type of people who still buy computrainers aren't people who are particularly concerned with keeping pace with technology.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DCR review is available:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...erything-wanted.html
(now I want one)

If wahoo does not drop the price, the kickr is dead (in Europe at least).
Tacx Neo is 'silent', cheaper, and everybody knows the brand.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [the slow guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
the slow guy wrote:
DCR review is available:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...erything-wanted.html
(now I want one)

If wahoo does not drop the price, the kickr is dead (in Europe at least).
Tacx Neo is 'silent', cheaper, and everybody knows the brand.

Huh? Looking at Wahoo's page the KICKR is 1299 euros with a cassette included and has free shipping to most of europe. The Neo is 1399 euros and you still need to buy a cassette. I have no idea what taxes or any other fees you might have to pay to buy the Kickr form the US.

Still with the Neo only being ~150 euros more with cassette I'd still go for that over a Kickr, I think Wahoo is going to have to do something to become more competitive on price in the European market or maybe just sacrifice that market all together.

In the US on the other hand, a $500+ price difference is a pretty big deal and while DCR's first impressions of the Neo are certainly positive, I must have read something completely different than you to take away that it's way better than what else is out there. It's quieter for sure, and to me that's a plus, but for US consumers is it worth $500? Guess time will tell. Speaking of brand recognition, Tacx still has largely the opposite problem in the US. If people know Tacx here, they know it as the funky euro trainer with terrible software and bad customer support. Neither of those may be true anymore, but they still have to overcome that perception.

I have no stake in either company or product for that matter but I don't think we'll see a lot of major changes over this. I don't think Wahoo was ever that popular in Europe and things will probably stay that way, Tacx may gain some traction in the US but there isn't going to be a takeover at that pricepoint.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I didn't realize the Neo didn't come without a cassette until I read the post from DCR on my RSS feed. I already thought the price point was high for the Neo and really think they should consider pricing it closer to the Kickr, but now knowing that it doesn't have a cassette then I definitely think the price is too high. You're not only talking about needing to buy a casette, but also buying the tools to change a casette, paying a bikewrench to do it for you or bug a friend with the tools. I guess I'm fortunate that I have the tools to do it myself but that wasn't the case 2 years ago when I was in the market for a high-end trainer and went with the Kickr.

Do I value the noise level (or lack there of) of a trainer: Definitely. But at such a high premium? No. I could definitely see the Neo doing extremely well at a lower price point but I think they're over-estimating people's value on the noise level. Or maybe I'm just not the target market.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [racehd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's always semi-interesting to me how different people interpret what I say (or don't say) totally different. :)


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [racehd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racehd wrote:
I didn't realize the Neo didn't come without a cassette until I read the post from DCR on my RSS feed. I already thought the price point was high for the Neo and really think they should consider pricing it closer to the Kickr, but now knowing that it doesn't have a cassette then I definitely think the price is too high. You're not only talking about needing to buy a casette, but also buying the tools to change a casette, paying a bikewrench to do it for you or bug a friend with the tools. I guess I'm fortunate that I have the tools to do it myself but that wasn't the case 2 years ago when I was in the market for a high-end trainer and went with the Kickr.

Do I value the noise level (or lack there of) of a trainer: Definitely. But at such a high premium? No. I could definitely see the Neo doing extremely well at a lower price point but I think they're over-estimating people's value on the noise level. Or maybe I'm just not the target market.


If I were willing to pay as much money as a Neo/Kickr, I would definitely pay just a tad more for the Neo's quietness! Also, note that the difference in price isn't that big if you order either unit online (note the strong dollar can buy a relatively cheaper Neo priced in Euro). I'm just glad that there is a decent competitor for Kickr now. Maybe now, Wahoo will listen to users asking for a quieter Kickr...

With competition, prices can only trickle down over time (while features and quality go up) - it's all good for consumers
Last edited by: kfmfe04: Sep 2, 15 15:28
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I find some of the commenter's responses to your post who seem to be really excited about the downhill drive to be rather curious. The majority of my trainer time these days is in Zwift rather than TR or outright wattage/interval based workouts and I still find that to entirely be a non-issue on the Kickr.

Back when I had my CT and was trying to do the virtual IM courses it was a different story, I remember doing the IMWI RCV and found it to be awful since there are a lot of rollers that increased the resistance, but the numerous downhills were still like riding through tar.

With Zwift and the KICKR I suspect it's a combination of both better software and simply having a flywheel with much more inertia, but I'm pretty sure that I coast down the entirety of Watopia's descents as it is and the spinning out at speed feels relatively accurate. Of course if I were simulating a prolonged descent you would run out of coast time, but simulating a long 5-10 minute descent on a trainer sounds like a fabulous waste of time to me and I'm not sure how having a motor drive would in any way change that.

Without a flywheel it makes sense that they'd have a more active mechanism to conserve momentum over simulated negative grades, but it certainly is the feature I am least excited about on the Neo.
Last edited by: tgarson: Sep 2, 15 15:46
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dcrainmaker wrote:
It's always semi-interesting to me how different people interpret what I say (or don't say) totally different. :)

Ray, thanks for all your reviews

When you initially review product, I know you do a lot to verify the accuracy of the power data.

But in the case of the Kickr, it seems the accuracy has been put in question with subsequent releases of the hardware, shipped out after your initial review. If I believe what is written here, the Kickr reads high. I know a lot of people accept this because they can use their PM to control the Kickr.

I have a CT and I know it won't last forever. But accuracy of the unit is more important than wireless or app compatibility. If it dies tomorrow, I honestly don't know what I'd buy. I'd feel your review may be outdated. Sorry about that.

Do you redo your tests now and then to keep your reviews current ? Do you believe there is an accuracy issue introduced since your review ?

Cheers
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [marcag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marcag wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
It's always semi-interesting to me how different people interpret what I say (or don't say) totally different. :)


Ray, thanks for all your reviews

When you initially review product, I know you do a lot to verify the accuracy of the power data.

But in the case of the Kickr, it seems the accuracy has been put in question with subsequent releases of the hardware, shipped out after your initial review. If I believe what is written here, the Kickr reads high. I know a lot of people accept this because they can use their PM to control the Kickr.

I have a CT and I know it won't last forever. But accuracy of the unit is more important than wireless or app compatibility. If it dies tomorrow, I honestly don't know what I'd buy. I'd feel your review may be outdated. Sorry about that.

Do you redo your tests now and then to keep your reviews current ? Do you believe there is an accuracy issue introduced since your review ?

Cheers

It's tricky. I'm in a situation where with the older unit I have I don't see any issues with power accuracy. I'm not clear if things changed since then, or changed temporarily, or what there. Obviously very aware of some of the complaints here.

I talked to them about it again last week at Eurobike, and they noted that as part of some recent firmware updates there was additional logic put in place to better handle some of the shifts people saw. They've now got a person on staff who's entire purpose is to do accuracy testing all day long with an automated rig they've built. Not sure to what extent that has or hasn't addressed those that are having problems (which, I really don't believe is everyone - but rather a subset of folks).

It's really hard re-testing devices down the line with new firmware/revisions/etc, but especially trainers. With watches it's relatively easy because they're small and I can wear multiple devices at once. With a trainer though, it's massive and you can only ride one trainer at once. So if I'm trying to get in testing of other products, usually older products with updates to go the back of the line. Plus, in cases like today I'm travelling again for work - so just back to running for a few days and can't easily bring a KICKR. But I occasionally use the KICKR for shorter power/app testing, so I've been keeping an eye on it still (albeit on earlier hardware).


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
thanks for the quick and straight answer

Maybe next time you speak to them you could ask they create an "Official Wahoo support thread" here so we can interact with them, share experiences and let them respond to these types of issues.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [marcag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think marcag makes a great point. I want a erg trainer and have the money saved up for one. Only problem is I run a Powertap hub and know I can't use it to controll kickr power. It seems everyone is controlling kickr power via PM because it is not as accurate as promised. If the neo has truly accurate power, lower sound level, and the same 'road' feel as the kickr I'm sure those attributes will be worth the increased price for a lot of buyers.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jbugno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kickr snap would be a solution ...
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am a French guy in France. If you want a trainer here in France, it is going to be Tacx or Elite. They are sold in most of the bike stores, these are the two brands we live with. (I bought a KK 5 years ago with a huge discount, don't ask me how, they virtually don't exist here).

My point is that everybody knows Tacx, and 'nobody' knows Wahoo. Tacx Neo is found everywhere on pre-order for 1200e, wait for a >10% discount that will come several times a year, and it is even cheaper.

I could buy something like a bkool trainer online without knowing how it is and feels because it is quite cheap (500e) even if brand is unknown, but not something like a kickr ()

IMO most of the people who ride trainers are annoyed by the noise they make (babies, wife, neighbors, even for sufferfest videos, TV or music). I have never seen a Tacx Neo, but I guess that when you ride a silent trainer once, you never go back : it is simply less stress for everybody.

Kickr is probably close to perfection but now that silent trainers exist, Kickr has a HUGE problem.

I could be wrong of course.


tgarson wrote:
the slow guy wrote:
DCR review is available:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...erything-wanted.html
(now I want one)

If wahoo does not drop the price, the kickr is dead (in Europe at least).
Tacx Neo is 'silent', cheaper, and everybody knows the brand.


Huh? Looking at Wahoo's page the KICKR is 1299 euros with a cassette included and has free shipping to most of europe. The Neo is 1399 euros and you still need to buy a cassette. I have no idea what taxes or any other fees you might have to pay to buy the Kickr form the US.

Still with the Neo only being ~150 euros more with cassette I'd still go for that over a Kickr, I think Wahoo is going to have to do something to become more competitive on price in the European market or maybe just sacrifice that market all together.

In the US on the other hand, a $500+ price difference is a pretty big deal and while DCR's first impressions of the Neo are certainly positive, I must have read something completely different than you to take away that it's way better than what else is out there. It's quieter for sure, and to me that's a plus, but for US consumers is it worth $500? Guess time will tell. Speaking of brand recognition, Tacx still has largely the opposite problem in the US. If people know Tacx here, they know it as the funky euro trainer with terrible software and bad customer support. Neither of those may be true anymore, but they still have to overcome that perception.

I have no stake in either company or product for that matter but I don't think we'll see a lot of major changes over this. I don't think Wahoo was ever that popular in Europe and things will probably stay that way, Tacx may gain some traction in the US but there isn't going to be a takeover at that pricepoint.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jbugno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An important point is the accuracy of the power measurement. The KICKR makes it not really good. But since you can combine you SRM with the KICKR you have a very precise measurement. This is a very big plus for the KICKR. Particularly for performance tests.

It would be really interesting how accurately the Tacx NEO is. If the power measurement is more accurate, the KICKR no longer has any advantage.

I hope Wahoo does not lower the prices in Europe. I want to sell my still for a high price :-)

Velo Hero - vendor independent training log and performance analysis software
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Cyclenerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cyclenerd wrote:
An important point is the accuracy of the power measurement. The KICKR makes it not really good. But since you can combine you SRM with the KICKR you have a very precise measurement. This is a very big plus for the KICKR. Particularly for performance tests.

It would be really interesting how accurately the Tacx NEO is. If the power measurement is more accurate, the KICKR no longer has any advantage.

I hope Wahoo does not lower the prices in Europe. I want to sell my still for a high price :-)


Given that TR and PerfPro both implemented the "use your good PM as a power-setter" feature independent of and before wahoo put out their firmware update, I bet that feature will be usable for any ANT+ computerized trainer for users of TR and PerfPro.

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
Last edited by: AHare: Sep 3, 15 5:38
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jbugno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jbugno wrote:
I think marcag makes a great point. I want a erg trainer and have the money saved up for one. Only problem is I run a Powertap hub and know I can't use it to controll kickr power. It seems everyone is controlling kickr power via PM because it is not as accurate as promised. If the neo has truly accurate power, lower sound level, and the same 'road' feel as the kickr I'm sure those attributes will be worth the increased price for a lot of buyers.

I really don't care which trainer people get, and if I were in the market today I'd most likely get the Neo, but the part about how 'everyone' is using external PMs to control the kickr is simply untrue. There is certainly a vocal subset of users on these boards who have had issues, whether or not that subset represents 1% of users or 90% of users is unknown because there is no actual data on this.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jbugno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jbugno wrote:
If the neo has truly accurate power

If the trainer is the only source of power data used for reference, then for that user, wouldn't it always be 100% accurate?
I am really looking forward to the Neo's direct drive electrobrake, but regardless of the technology, if the trainers power data does not align with an external powermeter and there is no method (firmware or application setting) for scaling or calibrating the trainer power output to better match an external powermeter, then regardless of the price, the trainer is really not going to offer much value.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Sep 3, 15 7:27
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ms6073 wrote:
if the trainers power data does not align with an external powermeter and there is no method (firmware or application setting) for scaling or calibrating the trainer power output to better match an external powermeter, then regardless of the price, the trainer is really not going to offer much value.

What makes you think that one method of estimating power is inherently more accurate than another? Say your trainer doesn't match your Stages, why do we automatically accept that the Stages is right and the trainer is wrong?

To define the 'value' of a trainer we must first define the 'purpose' of a trainer. Is the purpose to get you a good workout or to capture the most accurate data?

You are entitled to your own opinion, but based on my own near decade of experience training with power and power-trainers the problem of the two not matching exactly is so old and so easily overcome that it's almost impossible for me to understand how we are still having these discussions.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Tri-Mot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
I have to agree that the old software was a pain, so much so that I swore I'd sell my Bushido and never buy Tacx again, but then the ipad app came out and I have to admit it was pretty good, at least for me, and I stuck with the trainer. So if Tacx is continuing to improve their software, I'd not immediately rule them out.

What I have found is that my interest in smart trainers in general has waned ... I seem to have moved from liking erg-mode to preferring to use fluid (or soon rollers) and hit my power numbers with my own effort, cadence/gear changes when doing structured workouts.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ms6073 wrote:
jbugno wrote:
If the neo has truly accurate power

If the trainer is the only source of power data used for reference, then for that user, wouldn't it always be 100% accurate?

No. It can still be inaccurate. Power is a defined unit, if you do a certain amount of work in a time period you have power. If you had an inaccurate trainer you wouldn't be able to use your trainer power to calculate your power-to-weight ratio... why, because the result would be bogus. I agree that as far as training goes it wouldn't matter if you only rode on the trainer because then it would still be inaccurate however hopefully precise. However as soon as you go out to a race or outside for a ride your 'trainer' power number are useless unless they are accurate or you know there is a fixed offset.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jbugno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jbugno wrote:
ms6073 wrote:
jbugno wrote:
If the neo has truly accurate power

If the trainer is the only source of power data used for reference, then for that user, wouldn't it always be 100% accurate?


No. It can still be inaccurate. Power is a defined unit, if you do a certain amount of work in a time period you have power. If you had an inaccurate trainer you wouldn't be able to use your trainer power to calculate your power-to-weight ratio... why, because the result would be bogus. I agree that as far as training goes it wouldn't matter if you only rode on the trainer because then it would still be inaccurate however hopefully precise. However as soon as you go out to a race or outside for a ride your 'trainer' power number are useless unless they are accurate or you know there is a fixed offset.

I think you missed the point of the pink text
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Behan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Niall,

DCRainmaker says the Neo does rock - but only approx 10mm each side of centre. So - better than nothing - but nowhere close to the rock of the KK Rock and Roll, for example.

Cheers,

Sam.

Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
Say your trainer doesn't match your Stages, why do we automatically accept that the Stages is right and the trainer is wrong?
Maybe because most of us spend far more time/ride more miles out on the road and would prefer to depend on the power from an SRM, Stages, or other powermeter rather power data from the trainer. That said, in most cases, it is far easier to update the slope of a powermeter like an SRM than depending on constant spin downs of most trainers (Neo requires/has no spin down mechanism).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote Reply
Post deleted by Wetfeet [ In reply to ]
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got mine here in germany a couple of days ago. Very quite! So far great to ride. Better stand then the Kickr... Spend maybe 10hours on the trainer, no drops or connection Problems in Zwift and Virtualtraining..

Sound File: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1imPP0ERh5f


Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [derpuma] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice setup and thanks for the sound file. I give up, what is the thing attached to the board your laptop is on?

Also, what's with the long usb cable? Is it an extension cable? I have my ant+ stick plugged directly in.


--------------------------

TEAM HONEY BADGER
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jsfarmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Its a DIY mobile mount, and the Cable is for power supply the phone while riding!
Zwift mobile app... ;-)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dcrainmaker wrote:
It's tricky. I'm in a situation where with the older unit I have I don't see any issues with power accuracy. I'm not clear if things changed since then, or changed temporarily, or what there. Obviously very aware of some of the complaints here.

I talked to them about it again last week at Eurobike, and they noted that as part of some recent firmware updates there was additional logic put in place to better handle some of the shifts people saw. They've now got a person on staff who's entire purpose is to do accuracy testing all day long with an automated rig they've built. Not sure to what extent that has or hasn't addressed those that are having problems (which, I really don't believe is everyone - but rather a subset of folks).

It's really hard re-testing devices down the line with new firmware/revisions/etc, but especially trainers. With watches it's relatively easy because they're small and I can wear multiple devices at once. With a trainer though, it's massive and you can only ride one trainer at once. So if I'm trying to get in testing of other products, usually older products with updates to go the back of the line. Plus, in cases like today I'm travelling again for work - so just back to running for a few days and can't easily bring a KICKR. But I occasionally use the KICKR for shorter power/app testing, so I've been keeping an eye on it still (albeit on earlier hardware).

I think the fundamental flaw with the Kickr is that it uses a rubber belt drive. That has to heat up and expand as the temperature changes. Perhaps they changed their belt source, or the quality and consistency of their belts has declined over time.

This is where it seems the Tacx Neo seems to be way ahead. It appears their direct drive doesn't use a belt and that should make it much more consistent, accurate and quiet. I'd like to see some tests of it's consistency and accuracy, but unless they really screwed things up, I'm guessing it's going to be pretty accurate and not suffer from drift. I guess it just comes down to price as to if folks are willing to dish out $500 more for an accurate, quiet trainer.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [derpuma] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What is the stand you have for the front forks? That's a pretty good idea, does it have any movement or rock to it so you don't stress your forks too much?





derpuma wrote:
I got mine here in germany a couple of days ago. Very quite! So far great to ride. Better stand then the Kickr... Spend maybe 10hours on the trainer, no drops or connection Problems in Zwift and Virtualtraining..

Sound File: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1imPP0ERh5f

Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Sam Apoc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The frontfork stand is from my cyclus2 trainer...
http://www.cyclus2.com/en/the-ergometer.htm
It's stand is rock solid, but at the quick release it has an elastomer rubber,
wich makes it possible to let the bike move side to side for sprints, etc...
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [derpuma] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks! You can tell your setup is killer since so many people are asking you about it. :)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [jsfarmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jsfarmer wrote:
Nice setup and thanks for the sound file. I give up, what is the thing attached to the board your laptop is on?

Also, what's with the long usb cable? Is it an extension cable? I have my ant+ stick plugged directly in.

He already said it wasn't an extension cable, but I do want to add for other people that extension cables are useful if you find you are getting dropped signals. A lot of things can interfere with Ant+, and in my case my PC is right next to my router which was causing issues. I got a USB extension and put it right by my Kickr and the problem was solved.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dcrainmaker wrote:

I think the fundamental flaw with the Kickr is that it uses a rubber belt drive. That has to heat up and expand as the temperature changes. Perhaps they changed their belt source, or the quality and consistency of their belts has declined over time.

This is where it seems the Tacx Neo seems to be way ahead. It appears their direct drive doesn't use a belt and that should make it much more consistent, accurate and quiet. I'd like to see some tests of it's consistency and accuracy, but unless they really screwed things up, I'm guessing it's going to be pretty accurate and not suffer from drift. I guess it just comes down to price as to if folks are willing to dish out $500 more for an accurate, quiet trainer.

The problem you describe applies to almost every trainer made up to the Neo. In the case of the KICKR and other belt driven mount trainers you have the thermal expansion of the belt. Whereas with all other trainers that are attempting to measure power through a tire and roller interface such as the CompuTrainer, cheaper Tacx Trainers and much everything else you have to overcome the multitude of inconsistencies between tire pressure / press-on force and tire manufacture / condition and wear and of course temperature.

With the possible exception of the Neo, I'm not aware of a single trainer today where you can just hop on and start getting accurate power from the moment you start riding, everything else requires that you do a proper warm up and a roll down/spin down style calibration to have a better shot at accuracy.

Neo could have finally solved that problem which would be a major plus, however the problem itself is very old and has not changed for a long time in this industry. Instead, it appears what has changed the most is consumer expectations and companies are finally responding.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got the Neo last week and have gotten in a few short rides on it. Some initial impressions:

Assembly:

- Make sure you have a chain-whip and a Campagnolo cassette nut handy. Link
- The manual is very very short, and could have been slightly more elaborate regarding the cassette assembly part, as I wasn't able to find any mention of the extra spacer needed to mount a 10 spd cassette. Perhaps it's something obvious for the more experienced mechanic.
- Apart from that, everything else was self explanatory, and I was able to start riding right away.

Initial impressions while riding:

- The ride feel is very good, much better than my old Tacx Flow.
- The freewheel is ridiculously loud. I find it weird that a trainer this silent can sound like one of those ratchet noisemaker toys when coasting. Here's what someone wrote on the Tacx Forum. "The freewheel is the loudest sound the Neo makes. It's music to Campa-wheel-owners' ears. Note to others: Campa freewheels double as bicycle bell." Link Additional note to others: While you may be able to ride the neo without waking up your family, the ratcheting sound will definitely wake them up when you stop.
- While I don't have a separate power meter and can't really comment on accuracy, the power readings are in line with what I was expecting (I've ridden with a Stages meter a few times, so I have a good idea of where my wattage was supposed to be).
- While riding, the trainer is much more silent than any trainer I've seen/ridden before. When starting with low watts and gradually increasing power you sometimes feel like you're in ERG mode with constant power, as you can't really hear the added speed. After my regular trainer rides with increasing intensity I've had to double check on Garmin Connect that both speed and power were actually going up during the ride, as I just didn't feel like I was increasing my effort during the ride.
- My first ride was on the Zwift Richmond course, really hammering away on the hill sections, and afterwards my wife complained to me that she could hear the trainer resonating downstairs. This was a real disappointment, as the main reason for buying the Neo was its lack of noise. However, when I was riding in normal trainer mode the next few times (0 gradient) at steady 200ish watts she told me she couldn't hear a thing downstairs. So perhaps the tough hill sections (=high wattage) caused some additional structural vibration, who knows. I did, however, add extra rubber feet under the trainer after my first ride, so those might have made the difference. I still intend to do additional sound testing later.
- I wasn't really able to ride out of the saddle on the Zwift Richmond hills, it felt almost like the wheel was slipping. I noted that someone on the Tacx forum had a similar experience: "When climbing (>5%) it feels as if the back wheel is slipping." Link However, I might have been in the wrong gears or something, didn't really have a chance to do any thorough testing/optimization.
- When riding the Zwift Worlds course, I simultaneously recorded my effort with a 920XT. After the ride I was astonished to find that the 920XT was showing 15.34 km, while Zwift claimed 18.07 km! The average and max speeds were equally much off. Not sure what's going on here, as I expected the motor to accurately simulate the downhill sections, hence having both the transmitted ANT+ and Zwift speeds being more aligned. Perhaps someone with more Smart/FE-C experience can comment on this discrepancy?
Last edited by: va1210: Sep 29, 15 6:33
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [va1210] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
va1210 wrote:
.....
- When riding the Zwift Worlds course, I simultaneously recorded my effort with a 920XT. After the ride I was astonished to find that the 920XT was showing 15.34 km, while Zwift claimed 18.07 km! The average and max speeds were equally much off. Not sure what's going on here, as I expected the motor to accurately simulate the downhill sections, hence having both the transmitted ANT+ and Zwift speeds being more aligned. Perhaps someone with more Smart/FE-C experience can comment on this discrepancy?
Zwift distance is not based on wheel revolutions. With the exception of GPS, most other methods are.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
The problem you describe applies to almost every trainer made up to the Neo. In the case of the KICKR and other belt driven mount trainers you have the thermal expansion of the belt. Whereas with all other trainers that are attempting to measure power through a tire and roller interface such as the CompuTrainer, cheaper Tacx Trainers and much everything else you have to overcome the multitude of inconsistencies between tire pressure / press-on force and tire manufacture / condition and wear and of course temperature.

With the possible exception of the Neo, I'm not aware of a single trainer today where you can just hop on and start getting accurate power from the moment you start riding, everything else requires that you do a proper warm up and a roll down/spin down style calibration to have a better shot at accuracy.

Neo could have finally solved that problem which would be a major plus, however the problem itself is very old and has not changed for a long time in this industry. Instead, it appears what has changed the most is consumer expectations and companies are finally responding.

The Velotron uses a direct drive and you can hop on and use it right away. No calibration needed, no drift. I would expect the Neo will be like that as well. With the computrainer, clearly heat has an impact, however, 15 minute warmup and RRC is part of the normal calibration process. I don't have a Kickr, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't warm up the Kickr and do a rolldown.

Still, since they went out of their way to eliminate the tire contact point, why add a rubber belt back into the mix to add a thermal drift component. With the Neo they seem to have done it right.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mcmetal wrote:

The Velotron uses a direct drive and you can hop on and use it right away. No calibration needed, no drift. I would expect the Neo will be like that as well. With the computrainer, clearly heat has an impact, however, 15 minute warmup and RRC is part of the normal calibration process. I don't have a Kickr, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't warm up the Kickr and do a rolldown.

Still, since they went out of their way to eliminate the tire contact point, why add a rubber belt back into the mix to add a thermal drift component. With the Neo they seem to have done it right.

You are of course correct about the Velotron but it's such a niche product I have a hard time categorizing it as a 'home trainer'. It's closer in price to most professional fit systems which could also be technically used as a home trainer if you were a crazy enough.

As for the KICKR, they do require a WU and spindown like everything else, http://support.wahoofitness.com/...pindown-calibration-

I think Wahoo just ended up shooting themselves in the foot by not publicizing the spin down enough and insisting it is something only needs to be performed occasionally (once very 2 weeks per their guidance) versus RM pushing that you should do it every ride on the CT. I can see their potential reasoning, they want the KICKR to appear super simple to set up and use and saying you have to spindown every time ruins that image, but not like having a bunch of people rant on the boards all the time about inaccuracy is great for your product image either.

As for the belt thing, I think a direct drive w/ belt still offers tangible advantages over a contact roller system and I've personally found the KICKR to be a solid upgrade over my old CT but if I were in the market today I'd probably get a Neo as long as I could get a deal on it like I did with my KICKR.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
Nice to hear it, while I wouldn't quite call it silent it's definitely the quietest trainer I've ever heard.

I have no plans to get a Neo but always good to see the technology advancing and fostering more competition which is always ultimately better for the consumer. I can't see Wahoo's market share significantly decreasing due to the Neo though based on cost. If they started to feel the squeeze, I suspect Wahoo could push the KICKR in right/at below 1k USD which is a somewhat magic pricepoint.

In theory, you'd think the real loser would be the CompuTrainer since it basically has price parity with the Neo but with significantly antiquated technology in comparison. However, the type of people who still buy computrainers aren't people who are particularly concerned with keeping pace with technology.

The kickr snap is $850, I thought? But isn't direct drive.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
mcmetal wrote:


The Velotron uses a direct drive and you can hop on and use it right away. No calibration needed, no drift. I would expect the Neo will be like that as well. With the computrainer, clearly heat has an impact, however, 15 minute warmup and RRC is part of the normal calibration process. I don't have a Kickr, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't warm up the Kickr and do a rolldown.

Still, since they went out of their way to eliminate the tire contact point, why add a rubber belt back into the mix to add a thermal drift component. With the Neo they seem to have done it right.


You are of course correct about the Velotron but it's such a niche product I have a hard time categorizing it as a 'home trainer'. It's closer in price to most professional fit systems which could also be technically used as a home trainer if you were a crazy enough.

As for the KICKR, they do require a WU and spindown like everything else, http://support.wahoofitness.com/...pindown-calibration-

I think Wahoo just ended up shooting themselves in the foot by not publicizing the spin down enough and insisting it is something only needs to be performed occasionally (once very 2 weeks per their guidance) versus RM pushing that you should do it every ride on the CT. I can see their potential reasoning, they want the KICKR to appear super simple to set up and use and saying you have to spindown every time ruins that image, but not like having a bunch of people rant on the boards all the time about inaccuracy is great for your product image either.

As for the belt thing, I think a direct drive w/ belt still offers tangible advantages over a contact roller system and I've personally found the KICKR to be a solid upgrade over my old CT but if I were in the market today I'd probably get a Neo as long as I could get a deal on it like I did with my KICKR.

I took a look at that link:


To calibrate your KICKR we use a very simple spindown procedure. The spindown serves two functions: 1) determine the power required to overcome friction in the bearings and belt and 2) set the zero-offset on your strain gauge. Wahoo Fitness recommends performing a spindown approximately once every two weeks or after transporting your KICKR.

So they aren't indicating that you need to do a 15 minute warmup and then spindown on every ride. Perhaps, if they did it would eliminate temperature drift?

I'm not sure if anyone has completely gotten to the bottom of their power drift issue. Perhaps it's deeper than just the belt.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
...but not like having a bunch of people rant on the boards all the time about inaccuracy is great for your product image either.

It's slowtwitch, where everyone complains about power accuracy, belt stretch, and where people use the stretchiest chains in the universe. ;)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mcmetal wrote:

So they aren't indicating that you need to do a 15 minute warmup and then spindown on every ride. Perhaps, if they did it would eliminate temperature drift?

I'm not sure if anyone has completely gotten to the bottom of their power drift issue. Perhaps it's deeper than just the belt.

Good point, I guess I have just been extrapolating my experience from owning a CT and always doing a WU before the spin down even though their guidance doesn't actually say to do it. Maybe that's why I've never had any issues with accuracy, but as you said I think there's more stuff going on than just the belt.

My best personal theory about the KICKR issues discussed frequently on these boards is that it is some combination of a variety of factors:
  1. Users not performing spin downs frequently enough / correctly, could be based on bad or not properly communicated guidance from Wahoo.
  2. Variability within the power meters that people are assuming to be the golden standard that they compare their KICKR against. Around the time the KICKR came out we had a lot of people getting access to power meters for the first time thanks to more affordable single side units like Stages that are subject to their own accuracy issues.
  3. Simple physiological or psychological differences between indoor and outdoor power in general, my n=1 indoor power is always lower than outdoor regardless of trainer. I don't think this a big cause, but just contributes to people's perception that the "numbers don't seem right".
  4. There exists some unknown design defect in all or some KICKRs. It seems possible that this issue did not affect early units since we did not hear of any issues until somewhat later, but it's also possible that the issue has always affected some small percentage of units and it just took time for a sufficient number of units to be sold for the affected user base to reach critical mass.

Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Sam Apoc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sam Apoc wrote:
tgarson wrote:
...but not like having a bunch of people rant on the boards all the time about inaccuracy is great for your product image either.

It's slowtwitch, where everyone complains about power accuracy, belt stretch, and where people use the stretchiest chains in the universe. ;)

Would a stretched chain effect anything other than possibly a power tap hub? The chain stretch is relatively constant anyway.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [JSully] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No really, I would have won everything but my power was inaccurate and my chain stretched.

Here's a video of the downhill on tacx:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGaKFQdJ3r4
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Sam Apoc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sam Apoc wrote:
No really, I would have won everything but my power was inaccurate and my chain stretched.

Here's a video of the downhill on tacx:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGaKFQdJ3r4
That is awesome. You can let the bike ride all by itself while you are drinking beer!


_____________________
Don't forget to attack!
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Cobble] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Actually the motorbrake continues to freewheel due to a bug in the Tacx Trainer Software. With the older Fortius, iGenius/Genius SMART, and Vortex/Vortex, if the rider stops pedaling for more than a few seconds, the motorbrake stops SMART, but is not the case for the Neo. According to Tacx, this issue is slated to be fixed in the next update that should be released within a few days and currently the only workarounds are to wait for a flat area to coast to a stop or unplug the Neo.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Sep 30, 15 8:28
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Huh, earlier stuff said that this was a feature, to quote DCR:

Quote:
Then youve got downhill drive this means the unit will actually simulate downhill sections more accurately than a trainer that will just coast to a stop when you stop pedaling going downhill. This same functionality is also found on their new Tacx Genius Smart. Of course, its not quite perfect but its better than instantly stopping.

Or are you saying that it's not implemented correctly? IMHO, this is a nice to have I suppose for a trainer without a flywheel, but if you have sufficient flywheel mass coasting the freewheel on a downhill is really not an issue unless it's a really long one, and that begs the question of why you'd want to waste your time simulating a long descent on a trainer.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tgarson wrote:
Or are you saying that it's not implemented correctly? IMHO, this is a nice to have I suppose for a trainer without a flywheel, but if you have sufficient flywheel mass coasting the freewheel on a downhill is really not an issue unless it's a really long one, and that begs the question of why you'd want to waste your time simulating a long descent on a trainer.

There is not much point in simulating downhill riding conditions in my opinion. The real point of using motors is to simulate effects of inertia. In theory flywheel is ideal for it since it reacts instantly. Of course it is hard to get flywheel to a mass enough to simulate actual rider. More then that rider's weight's have huge range and how much do you think adjustable flywheel will cost? In practice barring few tricks related to proper electronic control it is much easier to implement good simulation of cycling using motor then some combination of break and flywheel as almost everybody does. This is what we do in our trainer for example.

http://veloreality.com
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [va1210] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
va1210 wrote:

- My first ride was on the Zwift Richmond course, really hammering away on the hill sections, and afterwards my wife complained to me that she could hear the trainer resonating downstairs. This was a real disappointment, as the main reason for buying the Neo was its lack of noise. However, when I was riding in normal trainer mode the next few times (0 gradient) at steady 200ish watts she told me she couldn't hear a thing downstairs. So perhaps the tough hill sections (=high wattage) caused some additional structural vibration, who knows. I did, however, add extra rubber feet under the trainer after my first ride, so those might have made the difference. I still intend to do additional sound testing later.

I know it has only been a few days but wondering if you have any further insight...

I live on a second floor flat, and the quietness of the Neo is one of the things that is very attractive to me.

THanks :)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ms6073 wrote:
Actually the motorbrake continues to freewheel due to a bug in the Tacx Trainer Software. With the older Fortius, iGenius/Genius SMART, and Vortex/Vortex, if the rider stops pedaling for more than a few seconds, the motorbrake stops SMART, but is not the case for the Neo. According to Tacx, this issue is slated to be fixed in the next update that should be released within a few days and currently the only workarounds are to wait for a flat area to coast to a stop or unplug the Neo.

So from the reviews so far of Tacx's new very expensive trainer:
1. Already a software bug to deal with (and if you believe tacx will fix within a few days............)
2. Feels like the rear gears/wheel (no actual wheel obviously) is slipping during hard efforts.
etc

I was at my LBS today, they have one in stock, $1800 Canadian + tacx (see what I did there... :)).
It looks pretty darn cool, but I just don't trust Tacx at all....unreliable and buggy software (from personal experience)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [gibson00] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have my KICKR working perfectly in combination with my SRM/Perf Pro.

My intervals are DEAD ON compared to my SRM... maybe 1 watt off after a 10-20 minute interval.

I WOULD not dare re-calibrate anything now :)

As far as the TACX... it looks cool... but I'm happy with what I have now that it's finally working.

After reading what you said about bugs in the TACX... I am even happier with my decision.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Donzo98 wrote:
I have my KICKR working perfectly in combination with my SRM/Perf Pro.

My intervals are DEAD ON compared to my SRM... maybe 1 watt off after a 10-20 minute interval.

I WOULD not dare re-calibrate anything now :)

As far as the TACX... it looks cool... but I'm happy with what I have now that it's finally working.

After reading what you said about bugs in the TACX... I am even happier with my decision.

Did you get your Kickr working with it's own power reading/load or do you mean using the SRM to control the load per that setting in Perf Pro?
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mcmetal wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
I have my KICKR working perfectly in combination with my SRM/Perf Pro.

My intervals are DEAD ON compared to my SRM... maybe 1 watt off after a 10-20 minute interval.

I WOULD not dare re-calibrate anything now :)

As far as the TACX... it looks cool... but I'm happy with what I have now that it's finally working.

After reading what you said about bugs in the TACX... I am even happier with my decision.

Did you get your Kickr working with it's own power reading/load or do you mean using the SRM to control the load per that setting in Perf Pro?

PP is controlling the KICKR via SRM.

PP has an option to show the KICKR watts vs ACTUAL SRM WATTS. The difference is generally +/- 5%...

With SRM controlling it... the intervals are exactly in agreement with my SRM.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [gibson00] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gibson00 wrote:
So from the reviews so far of Tacx's new very expensive trainer:
1. Already a software bug to deal with (and if you believe tacx will fix within a few days............)
2. Feels like the rear gears/wheel (no actual wheel obviously) is slipping during hard efforts.
etc

Just as I wanted to sum it up... it isn't really a surprise with Tacx that potential issues start popping up right there :)

Number one might be fixed by Tacx in an unknown future (and actually might not be significant if you're not plugging it in), but number two is potentially much more troublesome if there is something more technical behind it. I'm going to keep my eyes on further reports on this "feature" to see if this somehow impacts the wattage you can run the trainer on.


----------------------
Need more watts.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [mrlobber] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
it looks to me that wahoo got an "apple halo" - ie. if something is wrong it is either user error (like you shd not hold your phone this way) or in general user has to live with it (maps anyone?) ...

lets wait for more reviews of tacx - not base everything on n=1 statement (some kickr owners actually reported good power readings).
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What we really need is a trainer that is the Neo Smart but not made by Tacx (notorious for lack of customer service).

Basically, the dream is:

1. As robust as a Computrainer (or Velotron) which are built like tanks, but without all the damn wires (disclaimer: I have a computrainer...). I heard about Computrainer coming out soon with a wireless head controller, but, on to point two:

2. Does not require a wheel and [trainer] tire just like Kickr and Neo Smart

3. Excellent support and customer service (I think Computrainer has good support; dunno about excellent. I forgot what I heard about Wahoo. And I want to forget what I've heard about Tacx)

4. Does not require calibration like the Neo Smart [edit: meaning... like the Neo Smart that doesn't need calibration; I hate that I have to calibrate the Computrainer before every ride. I heard that you should do the same with the Kickr, like a roll down or something)

5. Quiet like the Neo Smart

------------

So far, I like everything about the Neo Smart; but with all the customer complaints I have read throughout the years regarding Tacx, and how slow they are addressing bug reports and firmware/software issues... that's really the only thing holding me back.
Last edited by: Alfalfameister: Oct 9, 15 4:13
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Alfalfameister] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
amen
Quote Reply
Post deleted by Felt_Rider [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Oct 9, 15 6:01
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [JackBauer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JackBauer wrote:
va1210 wrote:

- My first ride was on the Zwift Richmond course, really hammering away on the hill sections, and afterwards my wife complained to me that she could hear the trainer resonating downstairs. This was a real disappointment, as the main reason for buying the Neo was its lack of noise. However, when I was riding in normal trainer mode the next few times (0 gradient) at steady 200ish watts she told me she couldn't hear a thing downstairs. So perhaps the tough hill sections (=high wattage) caused some additional structural vibration, who knows. I did, however, add extra rubber feet under the trainer after my first ride, so those might have made the difference. I still intend to do additional sound testing later.


I know it has only been a few days but wondering if you have any further insight...

I live on a second floor flat, and the quietness of the Neo is one of the things that is very attractive to me.

THanks :)

Unfortunately I've been really busy the last week, so haven't been able to get int as many trainer workouts as I would have hoped. But I would have to say that my impression of the trainer seems to be getting more positive after each workout, and I can't really see myself going back to a regular trainer anymore. While I do think the whole "5 db" and "completely silent" marketing speak is over the top, I honestly can't imagine there being any trainer out there that is actually more silent than the Neo. So if excessive sound/vibration is a major concern, I don't think there is really anything better out there.

While my wife was able to hear my sprints down stairs, I think it is important to note that she only heard the sprints, not the whole workout. This in itself is a great improvement over my previous trainer, which was heard downstairs at all intensities. And seeing as how I'll be doing base workouts for the majority of the winter, I think the Neo has more or less resolved my noise issues.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [va1210] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
va1210 wrote:
While my wife was able to hear my sprints down stairs, I think it is important to note that she only heard the sprints, not the whole workout. This in itself is a great improvement over my previous trainer, which was heard downstairs at all intensities. And seeing as how I'll be doing base workouts for the majority of the winter, I think the Neo has more or less resolved my noise issues.

Thank you!

Can you talk a little about your house construction and the overall flooring situation?

(To be honest you've quelled my concerns pretty much completely - I'm just curious why there's any sound at all "leaking" downstairs)

Is it new construction (tending to use thinner materials than houses built 40 years go for subflooring, etc...)?

Do you have carpeting under it?

Thanks again!
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [JackBauer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JackBauer wrote:
Thank you!

Can you talk a little about your house construction and the overall flooring situation?

(To be honest you've quelled my concerns pretty much completely - I'm just curious why there's any sound at all "leaking" downstairs)

Is it new construction (tending to use thinner materials than houses built 40 years go for subflooring, etc...)?

Do you have carpeting under it?

Thanks again!

Ok, some basics: we live in an area with really cold winters, so the house is constructed out of pretty solid materials (brick walls, concrete etc) and well insulated. the room with the trainer is on the second floor, and the trainer is situated right next to the wall alongside a window, directly underneath which there is a pretty large living room. The ceiling/floor is concrete with a hollow core (hollow core slab I believe is the correct term). On the second floor we have parquet flooring, so no carpeting, but I have put small rubber feet under the Neo and a thin yoga mat just to avoid sweat damage. My wife's "noise testing" was done so that she was sitting pretty much below the trainer, watching TV at pretty low volume.

Oh, and an important caveat: my wife is much more picky than me, and can e.g. see dust and dirt where I can't see anything. So I'm actually not entirely convinced that the Neo actually makes any significant noise, she might just be blowing this whole thing out of proportion :D
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [va1210] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
va1210 wrote:
The ceiling/floor is concrete with a hollow core (hollow core slab I believe is the correct term). On the second floor we have parquet flooring, so no carpeting, but I have put small rubber feet under the Neo and a thin yoga mat just to avoid sweat damage. My wife's "noise testing" was done so that she was sitting pretty much below the trainer, watching TV at pretty low volume.

Ok - I'm guessing the hollow core slab transmits more sound than a traditional floor (in this case with plaster / lathe ceiling, floor joists, subfloor, flooring, padding, and top carpet).

Not to mention the mat I plan to put down to protect the carpet from grease.

In the end this trainer is the quietest there is apparently - and for me that alone would be worth a price premium. But the overall direct drive and flexibility you get by it being electromagnetic resistance... That's the holy grail.

The only problem is there are numerous reports of potential mechanical part defects inside the device. Looks like I play a waiting game until there is clarity on that aspect.

Regardless your posts have helped me, and I'm sure others out there...

Thanks :)
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [JackBauer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JackBauer wrote:
The only problem is there are numerous reports of potential mechanical part defects inside the device.
There are? Where would these reports be found?
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Some comments on DC Rainmaker's review (from users, not DCR).
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [JackBauer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cheers.

From my reading I have heard of 1 possible defect with the Neo, that being a clearance issue inside the drum, causing some noise, possibly due to metal filings on the magnets bridging the gap to the coils. With regards to the clearance issue someone else has mentioned, I believe this is more likely due to a bent or misaligned derailleur cage. Finally the stuttering, this sounds like a possible problem at low trainer revolutions (I don't say cadence because I imagine in say 53-11 @ 50rpm the trainer would be spinning quite fast). I guess this would most likely show up going slowly up steep climbs, perhaps slower than might be expected for a cyclist prepared to fork out big $ on a premium trainer?

Those are my theories. I have ordered a Neo, and expect it will be just fine.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
well there is another more dangerous one - which is the noise made by trainer itself that two guys commented on on DCRs site and tacx told them to ship it back
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [R2] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think we are talking about the same thing. Although the descriptions on Rays site do sound different to the one I read somewhere else (unable to locate source atm).
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have one on order here in Canada.. I was in touch with the importer and it was supposed to ship to my LBS last week, but it never arrived.. I sent him an email and jokingly asked if the boat carrying them over decided to drop the anchor in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.... my reply back was "They have been delayed a bit, I will keep you posted on when it leaves for your shop"


Seems something got recalled because 2 weeks ago when I spoke with them I was more or less told the first batch was arriving and mine was in there....

Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [va1210] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
va1210 wrote:
I got the Neo last week and have gotten in a few short rides on it. ...Make sure you have a chain-whip and a Campagnolo cassette nut handy. Link

Why do you need Campy?
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Sam Apoc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sam Apoc wrote:
va1210 wrote:
I got the Neo last week and have gotten in a few short rides on it. ...Make sure you have a chain-whip and a Campagnolo cassette nut handy. Link


Why do you need Campy?
Because you have to use the EDCO multisys locknuts, and they are Campy.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I posted this on another another discussion.
I currently have a lemond trainer.
Smooth as butter. But super loud!!!


Does any know which of the two (Neo or Kickr) comes close to the smoothness of the Lemond trainer.


this is review from Titanium Geek.

his preview of Neo
http://www.titaniumgeek.com/...ws/tacx-neo-preview/

his comparison with Kickr. there is a nice video comparing the noise level and the Neo lateral movement
http://www.titaniumgeek.com/...-neo-vs-wahoo-kickr/

his long term review
http://www.titaniumgeek.com/...-term-review-update/
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [irvine] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Having ridden both the Neo and the Kicker , I prefer the NEO it is smother and more quite than the Kicker. The kicker has a whining or whirring sound , which I assume is the belt but is very smooth.
In the end I prefer the Neo it was easy to set up. I was riding on the tacx iPad app in France in the mountains in a few minutes of easy set up. I am looking forward to getting into ZWIFT with the Neo I dont anticipate a problem and it should be seemless. others have commented on the down hills being very realistic and instant power on the brake for hills.
since these are back ordered every where right now, I thought I would included this link because
Neos are in stock here now
http://www.bicycleoutfittersindy.com/tran6060/
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [solidasarock7] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
solidasarock7 wrote:
Having ridden both the Neo and the Kicker , I prefer the NEO it is smother and more quite than the Kicker. The kicker has a whining or whirring sound , which I assume is the belt but is very smooth.
In the end I prefer the Neo it was easy to set up. I was riding on the tacx iPad app in France in the mountains in a few minutes of easy set up. I am looking forward to getting into ZWIFT with the Neo I dont anticipate a problem and it should be seemless. others have commented on the down hills being very realistic and instant power on the brake for hills.
since these are back ordered every where right now, I thought I would included this link because
Neos are in stock here now
http://www.bicycleoutfittersindy.com/tran6060/

Good to hear you are happy with it...

Have you had a chance to check the accuracy of the power readings compared to an external power meter?
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Actually no I havent simply because I was using a Powertap hub and now the rear wheel isnt on the bike. but it seems pretty accurate . I may get some P1s and Ill let you know
btw
btw there is still an active coupon on NEOs till the end of the week see link
http://www.bicycleoutfittersindy.com/tacx-neo-smart-interactive-trainer-use-code-holiday25/
Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [solidasarock7] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got a couple of Neo Smarts the other day from Probikekit. Looking forward to riding the Zoncolan. I wonder if the Smart is smart enough to know that I've unclipped and am walking up it.

http://www.probikekit.com/turbo-trainers-bicycle-rollers/tacx-neo-smart-trainer/11166730.html


Quote Reply
Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [solidasarock7] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
solidasarock7 wrote:
Actually no I havent simply because I was using a Powertap hub and now the rear wheel isnt on the bike. but it seems pretty accurate . I may get some P1s and Ill let you know
btw
btw there is still an active coupon on NEOs till the end of the week see link
http://www.bicycleoutfittersindy.com/tacx-neo-smart-interactive-trainer-use-code-holiday25/

I hope this is out here next year. I'm not able to pull the trigger this year but am hoping that I can be riding the neo next winter.
Quote Reply
Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
I'e had a KICKR since it was first released in early-2013. I love the thing... as much as you can love a trainer. I plan on buying the Tacx Neo Smart though and giving it a try.

Looks like you have both. I am close to pulling trigger. Can you give a quick comparison? Which would you recommend if buying one, but price difference is not an issue. I like the noise issue, but also that it can be used without electrical power. If it is unplugger, can it still work in erg mode?

FWIW - I currently use trainer road on a CompuTrainer almost exclusively in erg mode.
Quote Reply