so 12 minutes on the bike + 6 minutes with the suit... ufff she is going to win that race ez!

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but when and where are these going to be available for the general public?

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-Andrew

I think the idea is that those tight compression tops at least will fit tightly with no wrinkles and no air-catching pockets on the back (like a regular road jersey), giving the zero-th order benefit of a skinsuit. Textured fabrics on a real skinsuit would be an improvement on that baseline.

I would also think that the skin suit over tri suit might also be hotter which could end up costing you time on the run.

You are a very naive person. To think you can't go find the same fabric elsewhere constructed in a cheaper way is the height of stupidity. Castelli, adidas, nike, etc... They all buy their fabric from the same warehouses and the bigger you buy in bulk, the cheaper it is... So a major brand would have the same thing but cheaper and stitched differently. I'm not saying this adidas top is the same fabric but I sure as shit am not dumb enough to think that Castelli has the market cornered on a fabric that has been out for decades.

Maybe next time you won't write such a douchebag comment.

Hi radelj44,

I was at the wind tunnel when Castelli was testing clothing once. I know other garments might look similar, but there can big drag differences based on a lot of small details.

I'd give Castelli the benefit of the doubt on this one - they've definitely done the research to know.

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

I sense you might regret this.

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"One Line Robert"

And we all know wind tunnel data coincides directly with real life

Look, I never said Castelli didn't spend time finding the "best" material and constructing it in a certain way... if you read my comment above, I directly said another brands garment would be stitched differently. What I am saying and will continue to say is that Castelli doesn't have a patent on this material and you can find it elsewhere... FOR CHEAPER!! If you want to break it down and say, "well, in a wind tunnel the $300 Castelli top is 3 watts faster than the same fabric on a $50 shirt"; sure, go ahead.

Look at someone like Tom Gerlach (sp?)... he made a homemade disc wheel and used it for years. It may have been a couple watts slower than a wheelbuilder cover but his was what? CHEAPER!! And still very effective!

And now he has a zipp disc.......

Why the pink font?

We could flip the naivety to you. Since you have never been to a tunnel nor tested with the guys at ERO - at least not with the castelli suit and your under armour gear. Yet you speak so confidently that these "$50 shirts" can/will/do perform as well as a top created for the specific purpose you intend to use it for. I will assume you know who Damon is which makes your continued barrage of your own claims seem even crazier.

Have you held the castelli top and your prized $50 under armour top in each hand? Do you think its as simple as how fabrics are stitched together? I suppose you also believe that all carbon bikes are the same since they all use carbon?

Feel free to have your opinions on what might be best for you (Since spending $200 to gain a few seconds seems to be too much for you but you will spend $50. To gain even less seconds. Its all ridiculous honestly.). This place is full of opinions. But for you to go on some unwarranted rant seems a bit much and a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.

But please continue. This stuff makes the best threads!

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"One Line Robert"

When I tested a compression top @ ERO it was actually SLOWER than a tank. the texture such as that on the PI and others makes a big difference

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Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

WHAT?! You've got to be shitting me. A standard compression top was slower? But its surely the same fabric that castelli used. A retest will be needed.

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"One Line Robert"

I think what this comment is directly pointing out is that I never claimed x top was the same thing as the Castelli top. Especially my comment about the Adidas compression top above in the thread. Shit, I was actually joking about the Adidas top; I simply grabbed the first top that looked very similar to the Castelli top.

I'm not naive to think that all compression tops are going to perform.... if at all. My argument has always been, "what makes something textured (as Jim@ERO noted to make something a fast top) to actually perform?". Once we know that, then I/we can look for cheaper versions.

As for wsroberts comments about my "precious UA top"... I even created a thread specifically about the UA top a couple days ago trying to find a legitimate, written in stone reason, as to why the top was a bad choice and no one really had any good input (in that thread). Personally (literally, this is all about me now), I need a new top for an Ironman race in hot and humid conditions, to replace my current tri tank. I've never liked tri tanks (even my waffled speedsuit version from Squadra) because it chaffs on the run and seems restrictive. I'm now looking at something like an UA compression top bc its comfortable, NOT because I think it's faster on the bike. I'd rather wear something comfortable for both the bike/run than something that "might" save me 3 or 6 or 6:36 minutes on the bike. Because, personally, I think I'll be much faster simply comfortable (to an extent) over 10ish hours.

Now as for real data, what compression top was tested with ERO that performed worse than a Tri tank? That's good information to know. And how bad did it perform?

Looks like she has lost a kg or two this year. Maybe it is just the skinsuit but she looks crazy lean for 2013.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

It's available next spring and only in the elbow length version that you've seen on the pros

X 2 not that she hasn't always been really cut to begin with.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

 Regular skins compression top (non textured, similar to many other compression tops). Also, non textured arm warmers/coolers were also about the same as the compression top.

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____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

Maybe a skinnier Rinny can break her own run record?

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

And how bad was it? Are we talking a significant amount of time?

I can't remember exactly. I'm in kona with no laptop. IIRC it wasn't super bad, approx 40-60 sec over 112 miles. So if u wear it for sun protection then fine, but I wouldn't just assume that any long sleeves will be FASTER.

A few days ago I rode out on the queenk in the heat of the day in a castelli skin suit and it was actually quite cool in the wind. But I think you'd lose too much time in T1 with that. The stealth top seems a good compromise.

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____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

They may be fudging a few of the numbers. Based off of this picture from the other thread, the climbers jersey claims to save you some watts, but that thing is the most un-aerodynamic piece of bike clothing I've ever owned.

Sounds good... and can you comment on the whole "texture" thing? Are you saying it needs to be the waffle fabric like PI, Squadra, etc. or just something that is not sheer or silky looking?

There must be something wrong with your sizing/fitting. ;)
I do own two Climber's Jerseys and they are definitely the best fitting/tight jerseys of the Castelli 2013 collection.
No flapping (at arms, shoulders, back ...) at all.
To me it's Castelli's best jersey ever so far. For me it fits even better than this year's Aero Race 4.0 jersey.
Curious how the new Aero Race 5.0 Jersey will perform/fit.

Thx for the information.

So based on the 10watts/second saved/km rule a San Remo suit @24watts saved would net 7.5 minutes in an IM over a fairly tight jersey. Maybe a standard trisuit cuts that delta in half, still 3minutes +. Certainly worth a 30 second clothing change if accurate.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/