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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [IronMike] [ In reply to ]
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Ironmike, just hit the "join challenge link" and you should be back in.

Bmanners, none of what anyone does offends me. My skin is thick enough. I'm just trying to encourage people to get the best possible training out of this challenge and be racing heros instead of training heros.....I've been on both sides of the fence and there is much more satisfaction being a racing hero where the results really count than being a superstar in training

Just remember, "Anyone can be a stud when there is no timing chip on....what matters is really what you do when on "stage" when the pressure is on" :-)
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I got totally jacked[1] on getting run 99 in today, which means that I may not make
the virtual 5k as my 100th run [2]. I was on the phone from 0800 until, well, I'm still on
the phone.

Yes, I do take PayPal.

-Jot

[1] No, not Mott
[2] With a little warmup and cool down added. Even a slug like me can get 3.1 done in 30
after running the full 100/100. :)
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev,

I'm disappointed in you. That was #25 and it was very lukewarm to say the least. You still have until Tuesday to ramp it up a bit. Go for it bro!

Thanks Dev for the 100/100.

ps how's the ankle? don't push it, it's still March.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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No worries. You know a lot more about run training than me. I won't waste anymore of your time.
I don't think it is fair for someone to pick up their toys and leave just because someone disagrees with them, but eh, they are your toys. One example of why I think it is important for each person to think for themselves is:

Do you feel that the two people below should be training the same way for running:

and ???????

I don't think so, but that has been my perspective from the start: Listen to the masters, but temper it with the reality of my own personal situation and abilities.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [jime] [ In reply to ]
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I know it was weak, but coming into the finishing sprint for number 25 and had nothing left....all my resources were being consumed trying to rehab my broken ankle. Today is day 28, I am biking indoors pain free, swimming pain free with a neoprene ankle wrap (provides some flotation), lifting lots of weights. I should be able to start riding outdoors as I can finally unclick from the pedals so it is technically not a safety issue riding outside. I'm not in a rush to start running as I still have pain walking at certain angles. Realistically, I doubt it would be wise to start running for another 3 weeks. I'm also doing some riding on the rollers with my powercranks bike which forces me to use both legs independently, so a good rehab tool.

Aside from that, I want to sign up for the Tupper Lake half Ironman where I plan to race to T2 and then "just get through the run". That is approximately 3 months from now and 5 months from now, be able to "race the run" at Timberman. Not sure how realistic either is, but I have to plan for success.

Dev
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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lol......Dev, no Lp this year? I'm was hoping to meet you at the porta potty again?

Man, I'd be careful with that ankle. Going hard too soon could set you back a few weeks.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I'm back in!
:-)

And thanks for this challenge. It has really ramped up my running in a seemingly easy way. And shown me that I can get a run in pretty much anytime! The benefits are numerous, as is the thanks!
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [jime] [ In reply to ]
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I'm already signed up for LP and will be doing the swim and bike (aquabike.....stud to T2) as I have paid the entry fee and half my hotel and it is barely 3 hour drive from home. My focus is on being able to race well later in the summer and fall, so I won't jeopardize the events later in this year and next year/future years by trying to ramp running too quickly which a summer IM would entail.

Realistically any performance in tri racing late this year will be a bonus to build towards 2010 XC ski racing and 2010 tri racing. I think you have to be realistic and adjust plans based on the reality of today and work with what you have and not stubbornly stick to previous goals set early in the year. My achilles is actually the thing which will be the hardest thing to rehab. The bone will fix itself 100%. I can't say that about my achilles yet.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Roughster] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
No worries. You know a lot more about run training than me. I won't waste anymore of your time.
I don't think it is fair for someone to pick up their toys and leave just because someone disagrees with them, but eh, they are your toys. One example of why I think it is important for each person to think for themselves is:

Do you feel that the two people below should be training the same way for running:

and ???????

I don't think so, but that has been my perspective from the start: Listen to the masters, but temper it with the reality of my own personal situation and abilities.
The principles are the same. All run training (for 5K and up) is fundamentally marathon training (Lydiard school). Run training for triathlons is very similar to open run training.

Do you know what your zones are? What zone is 158 average heart rate for you? How do you set up your run training, do you set weekly hours or pick a frequency (# of runs) first? Where are you getting your workouts from?

I don't have any problem with people who disagree, if they have some rational basis for their thoughts. I have basically seen you list workouts that I as far as I can see have no definite purpose (specific pace, duration or training goals) in the context of the fundamentals of endurance training. I see a bunch of 30 - 50 minutes workouts that are done at around marathon pace (yet you make it abundantly clear you are not training for marathon, and even if you were you would only do one workout a week at that pace).

Just for the sake of argument, list your last 3 run workouts, what their purpose was, and why the effort was appropriate for the purpose. I'll give an example:

Wed: 9.1 miles on a rolling course, easy pace about 142- 144 HR. Recovery run, intermediate length (to work toward weekly mileage goal).

Thurs: 12.4 miles, 3 x 13 minute tempo (170 - 172 HR) w/ 13 minute jog recovery. Supposed to be 2 x 20 w/ 20 minute rest, made a minor modification. This is the main workout for the week.

Fri: 10 minute jog, 30 minutes weights easy (including stiff leg dead lifts, good mornings and medicine ball lunges, for light strength/flexibility work), 30 minute easy jog. All on flat course for recovery 142 - 144 HR.
Last edited by: Tri_yoda: Mar 20, 09 20:23
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March 21 [ In reply to ]
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9.6 mi easy, 80 minutes

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [xraycharlie] [ In reply to ]
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"...two or three short rants every day..." FUNNY! I *did* LOL over that one...
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Just for the sake of argument, list your last 3 run workouts, what their purpose was, and why the effort was appropriate for the purpose.
That's a fair enough request :
Thursday, Mar 19, 2009
#1 run 31 min 40 sec, 4.25 mi Treadmill.

My wife leaves for work at 7AM. I get up at 4:45 AM, walk (not on sheet) about 1.5 miles to the local club, swam 1650 yards, then walked home. I got home in time to get breakfast for my son, make sure his clothes were picked out and his school backpack all packed up. Once he was situated, I had no choice to run on the treadmill, my wife had already left to work. Did a 4.25 mile run at 7:25 Pace. With my Vdot depending on distance between 50 - 55, I stuck with the lower side since I had already swam in the morning and had rode pretty hard the night before on the bike on a hilly course. 7:25 is a split between my Easy/long pace per JD. My goal was to get a run in for the mileage without taxing myself too much.

#2 run 54 min 14 sec, 7.48 mi Long double
After swimming, running, I commute to work on my bike about 5 miles each way with a decent amount of hills. No I don't log this although I could to "chase numbers". Much as with the walk to the pool, I don't do it as part of a schedule, it is a reality of my life. After working about 10 hours, I rode home, and geared up for my second run. Ran it at 7:15 Pace. Since I ramping up my bike intensity starting last week, my legs have been a little fatigued. I figure playing it safe in the lower range. 7:15 is my Long Pace per JD. I started cramping a little bit in my quads coming up the last hill before my house. I felt it was a sign of the higher intensity biking, being on my feet all day, and good sign that the next days run should be light and easy.

Friday, Mar 20, 2009
#3 run 1 hr 23 sec, 7.48 mi Recovery

So far this week has been a tough one with the high intensity bike and as mentioned above, the legs have felt weary. I woke up early (4:45 AM) and stretched. Legs had a weary feeling but not really sore or anything close to a "lactic acid'ish" feel. Just weary. Because of this, I decided that I would not mentally push myself at all. After getting home from work, I just ran the miles at a pace that a could sing the whole time through and never pushed myself mentally or physically. 8:05 Pace, which is what I ran, is pretty close to the mid-range of my estimated vdot values per JD for my easy runs.

I understand what your saying about runs having a purpose and can guess that you will jump on my "range of vdot values" logic that I use. I personally feel it is more important to account for my life and how I feel in order to avoid injury than to have a strict regime based upon values and theories that are more in alignment with someone who is run training almost exclusively (like yourself) and risk injury.

When I train to qualify for Boston, I will follow a more traditional and in line logic with Noakes/JD recommendations. But in both of their respective books, they say training schedules should be guidelines and that each athlete is different. Noakes goes on more specifically to say that much of his logic gets thrown out of the window when actively training for multisports. You aren't, I am. We are going to train differently.

I appreciate your feedback and read yours, Devs, and Bones posts and think about them every time I see that one of you have posted something. That doesn't mean I always agree, but the collective knowledge of everyone combined makes more a much more robust and vast library of training ideas to choose from. I appreciate your involvement and hope that a small difference in opinion is not any reason for you to feel like you should stop contributing.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Roughster] [ In reply to ]
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Did my 5k today went out and hung with the big boys for first mile. STUPID! Did the first mile in 6 min 10 second. Okay I was 50 yards behind them at that point. Started midway back of pack of over 400 runners so had to make up some time. Finished in top ten percent . But did not reach my time goal. About a minute over. Kind of bummed out about that. Think if I paced better I would have been where I wanted to be. Actually was near what my workout pace is in the end. I was about 30 seconds a minute faster then work out pace. Next will be a 10k and I will pace better, obviously I cant hang with the big boys. I went out hard and left nothing on the course so no regrets. Long run tommorow (10 miles) and get them I told you so's coming.
On another note kid that won in 16 min 20 seconds runs for Seton Hall and was a All state runner was coming back from bathroom when race started and was 30 seconds behind from start. So I am thinking he was in the 15 minute range easily.

__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
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20 Mile CT / 6.32 Miles @ 7:28 Pace:
I got up and did a nice easy 20 mile spin on the CT. Once done, got geared up for the run and did 6.32 miles @7:28 pace MB. A great way to start the day! I am going to try and swim in a local lake this afternoon, though it looks like it might rain. Ughhh, run off isn't good for you or so I hear!

Oh and I forgot to mention, THAT IS RUN 100!!! WOOT!
Last edited by: Roughster: Mar 21, 09 10:44
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Roughster] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Rough.......................no big deal...........NOT........lol.....

Way to go 100 times in 100 days!

that is alot of running for a mere mortal, IMHO.

I hope I'll be joining the club soon. ( before Tuesday, I mean )
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Roughster] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Just for the sake of argument, list your last 3 run workouts, what their purpose was, and why the effort was appropriate for the purpose.
That's a fair enough request :
Thursday, Mar 19, 2009
#1 run 31 min 40 sec, 4.25 mi Treadmill.

My wife leaves for work at 7AM. I get up at 4:45 AM, walk (not on sheet) about 1.5 miles to the local club, swam 1650 yards, then walked home. I got home in time to get breakfast for my son, make sure his clothes were picked out and his school backpack all packed up. Once he was situated, I had no choice to run on the treadmill, my wife had already left to work. Did a 4.25 mile run at 7:25 Pace. With my Vdot depending on distance between 50 - 55, I stuck with the lower side since I had already swam in the morning and had rode pretty hard the night before on the bike on a hilly course. 7:25 is a split between my Easy/long pace per JD. My goal was to get a run in for the mileage without taxing myself too much.

#2 run 54 min 14 sec, 7.48 mi Long double
After swimming, running, I commute to work on my bike about 5 miles each way with a decent amount of hills. No I don't log this although I could to "chase numbers". Much as with the walk to the pool, I don't do it as part of a schedule, it is a reality of my life. After working about 10 hours, I rode home, and geared up for my second run. Ran it at 7:15 Pace. Since I ramping up my bike intensity starting last week, my legs have been a little fatigued. I figure playing it safe in the lower range. 7:15 is my Long Pace per JD. I started cramping a little bit in my quads coming up the last hill before my house. I felt it was a sign of the higher intensity biking, being on my feet all day, and good sign that the next days run should be light and easy.

Friday, Mar 20, 2009
#3 run 1 hr 23 sec, 7.48 mi Recovery

So far this week has been a tough one with the high intensity bike and as mentioned above, the legs have felt weary. I woke up early (4:45 AM) and stretched. Legs had a weary feeling but not really sore or anything close to a "lactic acid'ish" feel. Just weary. Because of this, I decided that I would not mentally push myself at all. After getting home from work, I just ran the miles at a pace that a could sing the whole time through and never pushed myself mentally or physically. 8:05 Pace, which is what I ran, is pretty close to the mid-range of my estimated vdot values per JD for my easy runs.

If your Vdot is 50 - 55, why do you think your easy/long pace is 7:15? My Vdot is about 60 - 65 and my easy/long pace is about 7:20 - 7:30.

This isn't really a matter of opinion, you admit to using JD's Vdot, but yet your running paces are based on whatever you happen to feel like doing that day. I understand life/family may effect workout duration, but you still have not explained why you think your paces are appropriate for any of your workouts.

Basically you pretend you have a theory (kind of like a creationist, holocaust revisionist, astrologers) by mentioning Jack Daniel's, but in reality you just make it up as you go along (long/easy pace does not have a 50 second window). Not running at appropriate paces has nothing to do with run or tri specific training. You either accept the scientific research that indicates there are different energy systems, that require training in specific (sometimes narrow ranges) for optimal training effect, or you don't. You don't accept this fact based on your training. Since I consider this probably the most basic tenet of training, I don't think we have much to discuss.
Last edited by: Tri_yoda: Mar 21, 09 13:36
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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If your Vdot is 50 - 55, why do you think your easy/long pace is 7:15? My Vdot is about 60 - 65 and my easy/long pace is about 7:20 - 7:30.


From: http://www.coacheseducation.com/...k-daniels-nov-00.htm

Now we are getting somewhere though and I can see a little bit of your concern. I will admit to one thing now that I have looked at the book versus the tables on that page. I was reading the Easy/Long wrong as if they were 2 separate and distinct paces. I realize now looking at the chart again, that the right value in the highlighted red is a suggested MP pace not a / long pace. That's good to know, hehe :) The tables reproduced from that link do not match what is the JD Formula (which I have in front of me right now). I assumed they synced but now that I look, they don't. According to the book the table should be:



Hmm but even given that, if I am running strong and injury free (and I am), I would rather prescribe to the faster pace from a performance perspective. The book is 2nd Edition 1993, the link above is Nov 2000. Is JD updating his tables to have faster paces than what is in the book?

Honestly my "theory" as you describe it is to listen to my body, remain injury free, and push myself hard enough day to day that when it comes race time and I have swam 2.4, biked 112, that I can sustain a brainless "easy" pace that is absolutely as fast possible. As Dev has said, so will I commit to: I will post my IM CDA RR and time. We will decide then if my "theory" works or not. Considering I went from 13 hours to 10:35 using it and plan on going sub-10 @ CDA, I don't think I am too far off the mark on my strategy. Confirmation will be June 21st! 91 Days 15 Hours and 29 mins away.
Last edited by: Roughster: Mar 21, 09 14:29
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [Roughster] [ In reply to ]
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Roughster, congrats on doing 100 runs. Great job.

Now I will ask you to go back to debating with triyoda.

Triyoda, one side I agree with your that every run should have a purpose, however, a number of runs in the 10K range at marathon pace, while seemingly having limited purpose, all add up to more base. Roughster should be ready to do a proper running program with the base he laid down ...but in general, I agree with everything Triyoda is saying. Still won't stop me from trying to demolish him on Whiteface later this year as biking is something I can do, but I better start losing some weight soon, especially before I start running.

On a positive note, today I did an easy 17K XC ski with my son. Then we went downtown for an all you can eat buffet. Since I am too cheap to pay for parking, I dropped my son and friends off at the restaurant and then parked around 1K away where the parking is free. Just out of habit, as soon as I got out of my car after skiing to go to this restaurant, I started running......suddenly 100m later I realize that i am ACTUALLY running....WTF I'm not supposed to be running. So I keep running the entire kilometer to the restaurant...probably ill advised, but it hurt no worse than walking. Both feet left the ground on each stride, but since the run was barely 6 minutes, it does not count for 100/100. Anyway, my ankle feels no worse, but I will wait till I get proper medical clearance before any silliness again.

Also on the way to shopping for work related clothes with my wife, I noted that the local track is clear of snow, so I am hoping to start a proper run program on April 1 just doing easy laps of the track.

OK guys, 3 more days to go for you guys to wrap things up, whether you hit platinum, gold, silver, or bronze club, if you have elevated your frequency and your mileage, I hope you have generally gotten faster running and have PB splits all year.

Dev
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, I'm telling your wife you were running, but you were probably so happy you told her yourself...lol

I love the discussion between Tri-Yoda and the roughster. It's way over my head but I still enjoy it. It actually gets me thinking about "really" training some day. Thanks guys!
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Run 99 down. I wanted to go longer, but ran into time limit. My wife has started
running and she had to get her run in. Then I had to run and get back in time for
her to leave so I could take over watching the Destructive Trio (the kids).

I may try to virtual 5k tomorrow (after a morning swim and some other stuff)
for number 100.

I'm really glad I did the doubles I did, because they allowed me to still make my
goal when unexpected things like being on the phone for 11+ hours on Friday
prevented a run from happening.

All my runs had a purpose. To make sure I showed the spreadsheet who
was boss. ;) Oh, and consistent running time and volume with no injuries.

Thanks Dev.

-Jot
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Just out of habit, as soon as I got out of my car after skiing to go to this restaurant, I started running......suddenly 100m later I realize that i am ACTUALLY running....WTF I'm not supposed to be running. So I keep running the entire kilometer to the restaurant...probably ill advised, but it hurt no worse than walking. Both feet left the ground on each stride, but since the run was barely 6 minutes, it does not count for 100/100. Anyway, my ankle feels no worse, but I will wait till I get proper medical clearance before any silliness again.
Very cool. Hoping that everything still feels good in the morning - if so, it seems like you could make a good case to the ortho that you're ready to start some easy running again.

Home stretch. Double run today, and another tomorrow, but they're run commutes, so I'm doing them with a clear conscience. 4.6 miles there, 6.1 miles home - and after twelve and a half hours of somewhat strenuous work, you'd better believe that the run home is the epitome of "easy pace."

Looks like run #100 will be on Monday, on my current schedule. Won't be anything really spectacular, just a 35 minute easy run with a friend. (Can't go much longer, 'cause we run during his lunch break.) I actually met him on a run during this challenge, and we've been running together once or twice a week for most of the winter. So maybe it won't be an impressive run, but it'll be good to have a sociable finish.

See how I feel on Tuesday - maybe try to do a longer, stronger final run, and make it 101/100.

-----
Over 4.5 years bike crash free.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Run 98 in the bag after 3 whole days off trying to kick a stupid chest cold. Three days off nearly drove me crazy but I could not take a deep breathe without coughing. Feeling much better today but took it easy with a nice slow 40 minute treadmill run.

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [xraycharlie] [ In reply to ]
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How is the run home longer?

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [xraycharlie] [ In reply to ]
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No real rush to start running. I kind of surprised myself before I knew what was happening and kept going. I can get plenty of fitness through swim and riding indoors for now. When I start running, first week will be 4-6 runs of 5-10 minutes and then gradually keep adding a few minutes to each run till I am am doing 6x15 min and once I can do that with no cheating, then I can get into some "real runs". I'm also adding daily 10-15 min on the elliptical trainer, which should help my range of motion.

Congrats to all you guys pulling in for your final runs. Great job.
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Re: 100 runs in 100 days 2008-2009 Official Thread with Rules, Questions and Smacktalk [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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How many have stuck with the challenge?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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