For one, tubular tires conform to road debris and road imperfections so they flat less often. Thus, a tubular tire CANNOT have a pinch flat. Second, you can blow the tire off a clincher rim, but you can't blow a tubular tire off a properly glued rim.

Did I mention how much better they ride?

~ AB ~

They have exactly tubes like clinchers have. Did you honestly think that the sewing and the base tape make a perfect seal, and that the valve (just like clinchers have) is part of the casing? The reasons that tubulars don't pinch flat as often as do clinchers is because a) the tubular rim does not have a bead, and 2) tubulars have latex tubes more commonly than do clinchers.

Sir, you are doing damage to whatever reputation you might have.

Oh boy!

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

It's actually just #1. A pinch flat, by definition, is the tube getting pinched between the bead and the tire, something which is impossible on a tubular.

You could not pinch flat a tubular with a butyl tube, of which there are many, most notably Continental. Nor is a clincher with a latex tube less likely to pinch; in fact, a clincher with latex tube may even be more likely since the tubes are more fragile.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

If you watch Paris-Roubaix, you'll see that tubulars do indeed pinch flat. Often.

Come on, you know there's a rim under there. When the tire is compressed enough (say, by the edge of a cobblestone), it will be wider than the width of the rim, so the tube gets pinched between the cobble and tire on one side, and the tire and rim edge on the other. Latex tubes, often found in tubular tires, are more resistant to pinching than are butyl tubes, but they are not impervious.

People pay me to coach them, not to tell them about the tube that comes sewn inside a tubular tire. If the person who initially asked about the reason tubulars don't get as many flats was asking the question in the first place, I would assume he/she wouldn't want to be bored by a discussion of the fact that while tubulars do have a tube it is sort of hidden by being sewn inside the tire. They get less pinch flats. That's all I'm saying! Sorry if I came across as being a jerk, it wasn't meant to be in that tone.

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Geoffrey Nenninger

Are you implying that somehow a clincher does not conform to the road?

The coefficient of rolling resistance is defined by how easily, in quantitative terms, a tire deforms to the road and imperfections. Since a premium clincher has a lower Crr than a premium tubular, it is actually clinchers that deform to the road more easily.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I didn't dispute any touchy feely "how much better they ride". Mention it a thousand times.

I asked why tubulars "flat less".

As I said above, if you properly inflate your clinchers, they will not pinch flat. And if you jam into a pothole hard enough to blow out a clincher, you would have done the same to the tubular. The edge of the pothole will be what blows it, not the rim/bead interface.

what is the difference? both are round, black, inflatable, butyl (alright, sometimes latex) but aren't they the same? It wasn't me who said a tubular had no tube - E

I think that is a 'blow-out.' (not sure about the technical term so please forgive me if I am wrong). A 'pinch-flat' is the tube getting pinched by the rim/tire.

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Geoffrey Nenninger

I was being sarcastic.

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

From the wreck.bikes.tech FAQ entry on snakebites (emphasis added):

Another reason could be the ability to inflate a tubular to a higher psi than a clincher. Most clinchers are recommended at ~120 psi, while many tubulars can be inflated to ~150.

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Geoffrey Nenninger

I asked. And you provided erroneous information. Correct information is not boring. And "sort of hidden"?? Seriously? That's like saying the tube in a clincher is sort of hidden between the rim, bead, and tire. A tubular has a tube. And they may get less pinch flats than underinflated clinchers, but both types of tires, properly used, will flat about the same amount.

Okay, okay. I feel that we are not getting into the exceptions to the rule, rather than what is at the heart of the matter. Paris Roubaix is an exception because of the width of the tires used and the very low pressures required. But, you are correct, it is technically possible to pinch a tubular.

I will disagree with latex tubes being less susceptible to pinching. They are more supple, but they are also much more fragile. I am not sure there is necessarily a definitive answer to that one.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

With your two bare hands, can you show me the tube in an unmounted tubular tire? Could you show me the tube in an unmounted clincher tire? With the tubular, you'd say "it's inside, sewn in" like maybe it is sort of hidden to the eye? And I apologized for sounding like a jerk in my earlier post as it was not what I intended.

The important part of my original response was the reduced pinch flats.

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Geoffrey Nenninger

So Geoffrey is no mechanic, who cares, its only your tire!

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Yeah, ask any of the mechanics at shops I've worked at... I've never claimed to be a wrench!

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Geoffrey Nenninger

Do you have any data on this? Personally, I've never seen any test data on a Dugast...

Remember, the OP asked for data ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Absolutely! And we all know that no matter the surface, the higher the pressure the better!

I pump my Tufos up to well over 200 psi so I can fly!

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

if you race in my AG, please race on Tufo's at 200psi and mounted with tape.

Thank you.

Kurt

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http://www.pbmcoaching.com
USA Triathlon Level 3 Elite Coach
USA Cycling Level 1 Elite Coach

I've never seen any either. It's also tough for me to do too much comparison of wattage, since I have new wheels as well, so I can't compare TT runs on my course effectively. One of these days, I might get around to doing a RR test, but I'm satisfied with my speed/wattage ratio right now, so I don't feel particularly compelled to do one for the rest of the world...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

And...despite the OPs request for actual DATA, you've shown nothing to back up this false assertion.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The only reason I race TT and Triathlons on Tubbies is because you can not only ride, but can hammer the last few miles out on a flat rear tubbie. And I have done so on three occasions. One in a prologue TT in a stage race where I would have not finished on the podium with clinchers. If would have had clinchers in the TT no way I would have gotten second in the stage at 3 sec back.
Two, I won ou right the Alexandria Sprint Triathlon 1985 ish with a flat tire in the last two miles. Tri overall wins were pretty few and far between for me so I was plenty happy to have that one,
Three, I won my age group in the Hawaii state TT with a flat tire for the last 2 ish miles. Clinchers are somewhat rideable, but I can still go 22ish mph with a flat rear tubbie on a straight road.
I can't mention the number of flats with sewups in cyclocross where the guy rides it flat to the pits for a bike change, and the clincher guys tire rolls off the rim and he runs the bike in a mile or so on his back in the mud. You see that every time at the big cyclocross races. Don't see any advantage ever with clinchers in cyclocross.

Even better...I race on them mounted to 32 spoke, box section rims! Nothing...and I mean nothing is faster! Especially when the wind comes from the side...and when is the wind EVER just from straight ahead. Don't believe me, just take a look at Nimble's "Side-on Aerodynamics" chart.

http://www.nimble.net/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/