Surprised this hasn't been mentioned or asked yet, but based on your username I am guessing you are female? If you don't mind me asking, are you post-menopausal? This is definitely likely to impact sleep quality if so.

What is your caffeine consumption? Since 1990 I don't use caffeine (mainly coffee) after noon regardless of how sleepy or tired I am and what time zone. I am 58, and according to my garmin averaged over 7.5 hrs of sleep per night all of 2023 (so over 2700 hrs of sleep out of 8700 hrs of the year) and I trained around 830 hrs. I am not retired and have the pressure of a tech company so my sleep is king. I would not worry too much about the Garmin metrics as long as your total hours lying down is good.

I also drink zero alcohol since 2002 and also take zero medication, no vitamins, nothing from pills and generally no food products that you can buy at "fitness place".

I've been sleeping with the TV on for the last few years. Typically something pre-recorded so it doesn't have commercials.

I sleep much better that way. According to most research, that's not normal.

Normally it's a documentary on PBS or Futurama.

I'm 3 years younger but not having same issues. I also have stressful job. Here are some things that I think work for me - meditation for sleep right before bed for like 10 minutes really helps me sleep better. I use the Peloton App or the Calm App or the therabody smart goggles with their app. If work is particularly stressful, I will take 'elite sleep' by Momentous - you can get it from Momentous or at the Feed. I have chill pad too - I set it to 62-64. Also, no alcohol.

What is your caffeine consumption?//

She has said several times here that she has 0 caffeine. I think the 8pm eating limit could be pushed back an hour or two, and lots of other good advice here to give a shot. The peeing thing is tough, isn't necessarily from drinking too much, just a thing some folks have later in life. My wife gets up 2 to 3 times a night while I almost never have to.


Good luck OP, get back with us on things you try and what seemed to work. A lot of us in the same boat, and a more important metric than usually given by athletes...

To OP: how do you feel? I would suggest the other stuff is interesting, but mostly noise, until that q is answered. (Not being critical … I’ve just been on a major “RPE first, then the other stuff” kick with training lately, and that thinking is spilling over into other things.)

oops: not a woman. fooled by user name.

😂 I think there is a good joke or two in here.

I must do "white noise". ie A fan that is NOT one of those quiet ones.

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

Get a saucepan and put it by your bed to use that. Saves you getting up

While I have none of the problems you have, I do sympathize.

I wondered, after reading your post, about what level of training and competition you typically perform at.

And as a random thought, as another person has asked if you have sleep apnea, have you considered going to a Sleep Clinic where you can be observed.

The HR peaks would worry me.

I used to do a fan but the new TV's draw less amps.

I kind of wrote the TV programs as a joke but I actually like NOVA on PBS and Futurama is the best show ever.

I've done the white noise and other sounds from a sound machine but they are too regular and I can hear the neighbors over the noise and between the rhythms programmed into it. The TV is too irregular to hear outside noises (for me)

(1) 55 M here, insomnia and anxiety issues for most of adult life (like, psychiatrist-treated in addition to trying everything under the sun);
(2) Research does not support (or is best iffy) use of many non-prescription remedies for sleep, and supplements aren't regulated anyway so you have no idea what dosage you're getting, and the bioavailability of orally-taken supplements is notoriously poor and heavily advertised/marketed to convince you otherwise;
(3) Zolpidem immediate-release 10 mg; or zolpidem controlled-release 12.5 mg with occasional departures to Lunesta or Sonata over the past 25 years works for me;
(4) Non-benzodiazepine drugs, specifically orexin antagonists which work on non-BZ/GABA receptors are effective if you are reluctant to take anything in (3) - I have tried lemborexant (Dayvigo), it worked ok for me but zolpidem is my go-to;
(5) I envy you in that you only get up 2 times to hit the head - that's my bare minimum, and basically dehydrating myself from 1900 onwards;
(6) My room temp is 66 F, have fan, white noise (analog), and air filter system going; and
(7) With those things and no booze - that's really a big one, unfortunately - my recipe is good for a decent 8-9 hours per night with no residual sleepiness.

Good luck!

I'm 57 (male) and sleep nine hours per night, usually without waking up except briefly to pee a couple times (I'm 57 after all), so it's possible. I personally sleep better when:

- work isn't stressing me out
- I don't drink alcohol
- I'm working out a lot

Easier said than done, and there is a bell curve in terms of how much sleep people require. I need a lot. No supplements for me, just healthy eating. Check out Peter Attia's book Outlive for discussion on sleep's importance (among many many other things)

A 50 year old male here. I go to bed at 10pm.
I found that the following makes a ton of difference:

1. not drinking at all - and if i do drink, it is vodka/dry gin only.
2. not working out after 5pm, and no stress after 7pm.
3. no caffeine after 1pm.
4. sleeping mask and ear plugs.
5. room temp as low as i can manage living in a 70 year old sfh in SoCal.
6. good ventilation.
7. reading a physical book or listening to a podcast instead of staring at a screen after 8pm.

If I stick with these guidelines, my rhr stays below 45bpm.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

No I am male

Close to zero caffeine for a few months now

Ok, interesting. Sounds like I should try lowering the temp on the chili and trying calming app and report back

It's a good question, I don't feel great. I don't feel awful but I don't feel great. When training I feel good as a de stress mechanism.

It's hard to explain so hence my trying to quantify. I should say I don't feel like I sleep well, physically I feel ok after an hour when I wake up

It can just be age, I get that

I am middle of the pack at Ironman events and have started wining local events since I moved up to 55-60. Train 7-13 hours a week. Have a coach

Many have suggested the sleep study. Perhaps I'll try it.

If my rhr hadn't risen I'd be relatively unconcerned

I have had numerous cardo examinations and am confident I'm up to speed on my heart health

Will try some of your advice

Ok I'll bite: What makes these alcohol drinks "better" (if that's what you meant, perhaps?) for sleep than other alcohol drinks?

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

I would guess because low sugar content - beer is the triple crown - high calorie, wheat based, carbonated, high glycemic index

just hit the big 50. my sleep has always been all over the map. usually around 7 hours but I cannot go longer (unless massive jet lag from work trip to different continent). biggest thing that helps me sleep is reading an actual book (preferably hardcover) at least 30 minutes before closing my eyes. no screens. reading relaxes me and I start to nod after about 30 minutes. Not working out too late in the day helps. I take magnesium. I do not like Melatonin as it makes me feel a bit groggy as soon as I wake. Stress and working a lot is probably a big factor. I'm a workaholic, so this plays a role.

Bite? I am merely self reporting. YMMV.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

😂

I had to look up YMMV. I'm 62.

You said "I found that the following makes a ton of difference", so I thought that vodka/dry gin was significant in this regard.

I'm a whiskey guy myself!

So, um, in Canada, pot is legal. Does anyone here dabble in THC/CBD oils for sleep benefits?

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.