Sleep 7-7:30 hours instead of 8 hours. That will make you sleep really well. That’s what I do usually.

That is interesting. Any idea why that works better for you ?

i wouldn't place too much (any?) weight on the garmin cycle/phases info - that is generally regarded as rubbish. if you wake up feeling reasonaly refreshed then garmin sleep scores should be ignored.
RHR is pretty reliable but can be an indicator of stress rather than sleep quality (these are definitely related but which is the root issue?) - reducing your stress is probably the best solution but may have practical limitations. something has caused that increase and can almost certainly be corrected.

beyond that, the main sleep hygiene factor you don't mention is screen time before bed. blue-bocker glasses as an alternative approach. i think of sleep prep as starting 3 hours before actual sleep - last food, then start relaxing your body.
is your issue getting to sleep, staying asleep or just restless/poor quality sleep?

l-theanine can be good for reducing stress
5http, melatonin and tart cherry are variations on the same thing which can be good for getting to sleep but i find they have a negative impact on my ability to stay asleep once they wear off which even the supposed slow-release ones do all too soon.
magnesium is a great option for any athlete struggling to sleep

on the toilet front, obviously don't drink too much in the hours before bed but also try using electrolytes in your water to improve absorption rather than it just flushing through you

Thanks for the response

I have the blue blocking glasses but haven't tried yet.

Most of my concern comes from the increased RHR from normal

I drink electrolytes most days as you imagine due to training

Stress relief is unlikely for 5 or so more years but I will keep that in mind

Thanks for the post

There has been a LOT of research as of late and I pay attention to it. Do NOT follow the advice of less sleep one suggested as many athletes in train need a minimum of 9 hours and that number has surfaced more and more in research. I am lucky in that at 70+ I sleep like a teen ager which I initially thought was bad until I looked deeper into it. There are some great podcasts from legit people who discuss the merits of more sleep for those of us who train. Obviously caffeine after a certain time is bad, and if you are up too many times to use the bathroom, enough is enough....quit drinking. Go to sleep when you are tired, research says cooler is better (we do 63 or so), and often some protein before bedtime leads to better recovery and good sleep.
Look into some of the current research and I know you will find ways that work for you.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Thanks. I am zero caffeine.

I cannot work out how to not get up to go to the bathroom and have been to urologists etc but it's not like I know anyone at my age who doesn't have to as well

It's great you don't have to

Might make it a little colder and try 63

High stress was mentioned. That, to me, (soon to be 62), is a very significant factor.

Do you nap in the day? (I suspect not due to "high stress" commentary!?).

At nearly 62, I find that I get "dreamy sleep" very often, but I know that such sleep is much "shallower" than before.

People mention 8-9 hours. LOL!! I haven't gone beyond what I consider to be 7 hours of "quality sleep" in seemingly eons. A pipedream that I won't even stress about. (Stress, again!!)

Ageing is what it is. But I think napping - 30min to 120min most days, in the late afternoon, is a luxury that is important - and something that I can very happily afford - but many my age cannot.

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

Check out some of the current research.
Here's a few good listens and they often have follow ups on this shows....

https://podcasts.apple.com/...9225?i=1000634893060



https://podcasts.apple.com/...3041?i=1000642929005

a few bits on sleep here...

https://podcasts.apple.com/...3041?i=1000642116231


I know there are many more and sleep quality has been shown to be such a huge help in performance and longevity.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Have you done a sleep study? Much of what you describe sounds like my previous sleep pattern. I am a 57 yr old male and have to get up nightly also. Found out I have sleep apnea and before I began using a CPAP my study showed i woke up 28 times an hour, basically every two minutes. unbelievable how the CPAP changed my sleep and how much more rested i feel each day. Might be worth checking into. Of course stress is also a likely contributor. Best of luck on your search.

The garmin stuff is interesting, but nothing more. At best it's a basis to start a conversation with your doctor. But, the real question is are you having any issues that suggest you aren't getting enough good sleep?

Have you had any significant changes in your sleep?

How do you feel when you wake up?

Do you consume alcohol?

How do sleep after a week of vacation? Do you sleep better, more, or the same?

If you are concerned, or you have unexplained significant changes in your sleep you should discuss with your doctor... And determine the right course of action. It's not that big of a deal to get a sleep study, if there is something to be solved.

As for urination during the night, when do you stop consuming liquids before bed?

I've dealt with this stuff for way longer (30 years) than I like - sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome, insomnia. At 64 I now sleep well, but it's not without assistance, and it's occasionally more fragile depending on how well I follow my own rules (and those I get from my sleep medicine doctor). Stress and anxiety have been common problems.

What does your nighttime routine look like?
What do you eat and what do you drink at night, and when? high fat? low fat?
How late in the day do you have caffeine from any source (coffee, tea, chocolate, etc.) and how much do you have on a daily basis?

How late do you work?
Do you do any relaxation exercises (breathing, meditation, stretching, etc.) at night?

A few things that work for me:
no caffeine from tea or or coffee after noon; maybe 1 small square of chocolate no later than 7:30. No alcohol after 7:00 PM. smaller dinner, low fat in the evenings.

bedroom is cool (<= 67), dark (and I wear a sleeping mask), and quiet. I have blackout curtains on the windows.

Some tea in the evening 2 hrs before bed - usually chamomile + ashwaganda .
see https://ods.od.nih.gov/...-HealthProfessional/

I have some GABA + L-Theanine on hand for occasional use, which helps
see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15700178/

I don't work in the evenings anymore, which helps, but even personal projects can hinder mental relaxation. Breathing exercises and / or meditation helps, as if I'm stressed in the evening then that has a huge effect on my sleep, and can overwhelm anything else I do.

I dont nap on a program and try to keep them to a 13 or 26 min nap cycle but will do so if necessary

I hadn't done that. I'm glad for
Your feedback. Doctors here are painfully eager to suggest it so I figured their kickbacks were huge and was suspicious

Thanks I will do this for sure

The concerning difference is the rise in RHR from 59 to mid to high 60s

I drink but not much and sleep is the same or pretty much the same either way. For example it's been 5 days since I drank and last night my RHR was 68

Re: urination I stop drinking around 8 but the amount of the urination is small. I.e. not enough t to warrant it but once i. Awake I have to or cannot sleep again

Thanks, pretty similar to what i expected.

i dont consume caffeine anymore at all. I stop eating at 8, I stop fluid intake at 8. I have a chilipad (68) and a very dark room. Dinners are usually small and more vegetable and protein based than fat. Particularly now, I am doing all of these things aggressively to see if I can get my RHR back into the normal range.

Does the rise in rhr correspond to an increase in your stress level?

Anyway, seems like you should be following the advice of your doctor and get that sleep study.

No the stress is consistent

I really think for me anyhow...my best sleep is when I shut the TV, and phone off about 45 min before I'm ready to turn into bed. Getting off social media. I work late typically but the phones...they sure mess with you. Not an early riser & rarely set an alarm as I don't work until later usually. Races are a bugger to get up for as I'm not normally awake that early. Staying away from soda or coffee too late is another good point. Being able to disconnect your mind from anything you have to worry about or what's coming up tomorrow is also key--forget about it and relax. Rarely can I sleep longer than 7 hours straight...it's just too hard to fall back asleep & feel fully rested.

The advice of less sleep is based on the idea that sleep cycles last 90 minutes and it is best to not wake up in the middle of a cycle. Hence the advice to sleep 7:30 instead of 8. The next cycle would end at 9 hours, which would be better than 7:30.

Interesting

I’m 47 and I’ve found that magnesium works wonders for my sleep. I also have a sleep number bed, not sure how accurate it is but it tracks resting heart rate, variable heart rate, and breath rate. I have had lots of injuries from racing motocross and I find adjusting the softness and hardness of my bed helps with discomfort. Too many people don’t take sleep seriously!
Good luck with finding what works for you!!!
Jeff

Another good resource...

https://www.amazon.com/...Dreams/dp/1501144316

Good luck.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Thanks. A lot of good advice here