Not the place, but medieval arabic poetry sounds more interesting than this. I do appreciate your graph/results. I wish I had more resources to test than speculate

I am sure you get some fault, if you run into something/someone and decide to sue.

in living life in general you assume risk. you have to be responsible for the risk you take, not for yourself, but how it effects others. I dont feel like this is any more dangerous position than any other position. I am not a risky rider and I wouldnt do something that "scared me"

Appreciate all of the input. I just have fun thinking about how to push the limits

Hello Rider17 and All,

That is a very fast looking position you have depicted ...... however ...... with additional expense,time, and perhaps some road rash ......

It might be possible to add a chest support (in addition to the seat support) and put your arms next to your head emulating the 'streamline' (for the upper body) push off as when swimming ........





Possibly in the chest supported 'streamline' position you could open your hip angle a bit for more power.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5886937#p5886937

And ...... add a 'streamline' frangible tail to the helmet that followed over your back and extended past your butt to 'streamline' the airflow behind your butt.

Yes it does get better ..... The 'streamline' position ......

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

it's surprising really, although you do occasionally see folk in tri's rock the superman, you never see the egg (or I never have) although it is generally accepted it's the "fastest" setup. If you account for the later iterations incorporating a "chest pad" to make it more sustainable you'd think you'd see it at least in passing every now and then. I'm not all up and up on the tri rules though, maybe there is something in there that prevents it.

I tried out the egg (with reversed bullhorns) a few years ago as well... it was interesting. Didn't have any PM to measure it though. :(

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

The answer, for almost everyone, is yes... It gets alot better than that position. Frontal area is only half the equation, and Boardman wasn't particularly aero by today's standards!

 When sir Bradley Wiggins beat Chris Boardmans hour record on the track he proved that yes today's riders are much more aero than the superman position.

Wait a minute-- that didn't happen! You guys have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Boardman's CDA was .185 --much lower than any male pro today except for the very smallest riders. Wiggins, Froome and Dennis are all about the .21 to .22 range. There is a reason no one has come even close to Boardmans hour record. Of course maybe it was a hidden motor after all, that Lotus sure has a lot of fuselage space in it so to speak!

To the OP, no the position really doesn't get any better than that. Your position would have a very low CDA. Whether you could sustain enough watts and be comfortable is somewhat debatable.

Thank you. This is exactly what I wanted to say.

 You are welcome. Kudos to you for thinking outside the box!

You clearly didn't pay attention to my post above. The conditions for setting an hour record (on a track) are very different from triathlon conditions.

For the hour record, you're going 35mph with effectively 0 yaw (actually there's a very tiny yaw if the track is small, but that's a whole other discussion). A MOP triathlete going perhaps 22mph outdoors is likely to experience significant yaw. As Andy Coggan and I (and others) have experienced, the superman position does poorly with anything more than 5% yaw. IIRC, Andy was experiencing drag that was 7-8% higher. It was worse than that for me.


No fucking clue indeed. Maybe you'd like to buy my custom 17 and 22cm stems.

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

I understand what you are getting at. I certainly have no data for anything. According to your graph there is a yaw point in which this position apparently struggles in your n=1. So for a rider holding 300w in a position like this how often do you experience yaw higher than 8ish degrees?

Wow that looks like a horrible position in regards to comfort, ability to control the bike and generate power. I question why even being so low in the front is actually more aero. If you think it works for you then ignore everyone and run with it but there is a reason no one currently races in a position like that. Just saying...

Rider17 wrote:

I understand what you are getting at. I certainly have no data for anything. According to your graph there is a yaw point in which this position apparently struggles in your n=1. So for a rider holding 300w in a position like this how often do you experience yaw higher than 8ish degrees?

Actually it's Coggan's graph and not mine. And I'd bet it's more than n=1, since he undoubtedly tested with his wife. Check out the time where yaw<5 in the chart on this page:

http://engineerstalk.mavic.com/...kona-ironman-course/

So yeah, you'll be faster for 30% of the time, but a lot slower for the other 70%. Because the higher yaw, the bigger the disadvantage.

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Interesting read. This is why I love this forum. Not saying I'm wrong, but I love the insight from people smarter more experienced than me. Could you share with me what you think is a close to ideal aero position over mine or what would be your advise for my position?

I would guess that Grill who posts to the watts & speed in your latest race thread is about as good as a pretty big guy can do.

I think many people could do better by focusing on narrow rather than low. Of course the stupid pressfit BBs make that difficult.

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

I'd advise you to quit that silly swimming and running shit, and just do TTs ... ;)

I don't think this is his current position. To the best of my knowledge he is on a p5

Yeah, it was this one I was thinking of:

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

Boardman's CdA comes out around 0.184, a figure which is higher than many contemporary riders, including my own, at 80kilos and 182cm. So much for not having a fucking clue, I just don't have 430W and 90s ethics on my side.

Grill's current CdA is in the region of 0.185-0.19, it's not spectacular.

Best post of the thread. Man would that make life more simple. Put my best foot forward and focus on that. Idk, from the beginning my draw to the sport was winning over multiple disciplines. I think it shows more athleticism to be accomplished across three aerobic sports. Im a tri guy

I thought he was at or below 0.18. Still better than my 0.205 ish And I sure the hell can't ride my position for much more than 40k let alone 100 miles or 12 hours.

Doesnt mean much, but Grills hip angle seems to be more closed than mine.