An OPEN U.P. with a reasonably priced carbon seatpost is the same cost as the 3T EXPLORO TEAM.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Dave,
How would you compare this to the Open UP. I've been lusting about that bike, but the Exploro has me intrigued.

DDT

I'd probably draw the same comparisons I did when discussing the Felt Z-series and the Felt AR-series or the Cervelo R3 vs. the S3.

The Exploro takes a performance slant on the ultimate go-everywhere bike. The shorter rear end and lower stack truly allow a familiar road position and the aerodynamic savings can really contribute when contesting gravel and mixed surface events which often have 7-10 hour finishing times. Of course it isn't necessary to ride the bike exclusively in the dirt as well. For a triathlete looking to add a first Grand Fondo, GravelFondo, criterium, road race, and or bike packing trip; the EXPLORO is the ideal bike if "n+1" is not possible.

The TEAM version is similar in price and weight to the OPEN U.P. but adds the aero benefit should the competitive side of this type of riding be important to you. The UP longer more upright geo and dropper-compatible seatpost may be better suited if your rides don't have a finish line or you aren't concerned with when you'll cross it.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

SuperDave wrote:

The UP longer more upright geo...

I was curious about the exact differences in stack and reach, so I put together a table. (Below.) The Exploro is 4.3mm - 4.5mm shorter stack than the UP in any given size, the reach for the Exploro is 1mm-4mm longer than the UP, and the rear center is exactly 5mm shorter for the Exploro. These are quite similar in stack and reach.

I just mounted some 40mm Clement X'PLOR MSO tires on my UP today. There was about 3/8" clearance to the seat tube, which is enough for dry conditions. The shorter rear center on the Exploro will mean 35mm tires for the same clearance; bigger tires will mean 650B wheels.

(Edited to change the table to a picture.)

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

I'm probably dumb and just can't read, but what is the difference between the LTD and the Team? Description seems like it has a different fork? And I see the LT is slightly is lighter, so I'm assuming maybe different CF that saves a little weight?

Curious what your takeaway is from this? Presumably, the ability to run slightly bigger tires on a 700c wheel would be an advantage for the UP since it saves you form having to get a 650b wheelset if you don't already have them. However, IMHO the ability to run 650b on bikes like the UP and Exploro is kind of the whole point.

If just running wide on 700c was your priority, there are a handful of other bikes that can run WTB nano 40 for a lot less $$$

Only layup and paint. They come from the same mold.

Not unlike our TEAM handlebars and LTD handlebars.

The LTD frame is 950g.
That's light for a disc brake frame.
That's light for an aero frame.
That's light for a frame whose strength exceeds many CX frames and is compliant with all industry benchmarks for fatigue and strength of bikes intended for off-road use.

At 950g to be in all these categories is really exceptional as is the case with all 3T LTD-level products.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

My takeaway is that the geometries are so close as to be insignificant, with the exception of tire clearance.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

There's that, or there's simply people who want to n-1. I do a variety of riding through a variety of seasons where I'd ideally have a few bikes, or at least a decent road and cx/gravel pair. I could probably just have 2 bikes for the same or less and honestly I don't know if that'd be better. But as someone who has moved around the country a lot over the last 10 years or so and is tired of transporting, storing and maintaining too many possessions I really value the idea of having fewer, nicer / more versatile things.

Of course, if you were a serious road racer who couldn't stomach the idea of this being their only road bike, this would be a really expensive way to go for bike #2.

When can we expect availability and which retailers will be carrying? Do you expect limited quantities at first?

The Large size LTD and TEAM frames are shipping now. Med, Small, and XL will all be ready by August. I expect limited quantities always. This will not be produced in huge volume and will not be available from every dealer who has sold a 3T item. We have specific requirements for 3T Dealers in the US as well as our distributor's regions.

-SD

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Testing at 30mph benefits the marketing; offering 24 watt savings over the "tare" round tube/box section rim, 28mm tire road bike. At 20mph that advantage drops to just 7 watts.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I might agree with your geo suggestions if the bike only fit 33mm tires or had CX bike BB height.
Add 2.1" MTB tires and there's simply no comparing geo.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

What speed you test at doesn't affect the CdA, and testing at the higher speed improves sensitivity and confidence in the results. Power savings at whatever speed you wish to report can be easily calculated and reported. Where's the marketing issue?

Testing at the lower speed just makes the result less "reliable"...is that REALLY a 7W savings...or is it 3W?...or none?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Dave,

You're the man and I love so many of the projects you have been involved in. I don't see how tire size (clearly raising bb height as tire size increases) affects stack of a frame though. I sure hope you bring a demo bike or two to NW Illinois to come show me though. We have some of the most scenic unpaved routes out here where the glaciers decided to detour all those years ago. Head tube height was really my only niggle. What a gorgeous frame with well thought out details.

The seat tube cut out gives you a bit more space so 40mm WTB Nano fit the EXPLORO with suitable dry conditions clearance. You're right though, instead of trying to squeeze in a 40mm tire, run a 50mm tire on 650B. You can still use a Panaracer or Schwalbe 35-40mm tire on a 650B rim as they are offering this size now but the WTB Horizon has proven to be the go-to option for me unless I'm going to be exclusively in the dirt like a short track or CX race. In general for the conditions I'm in volume > knobs. 25-28 psi with 47mm slicks is just more sure footed than ~35psi with 38mm CX "gravel" tires.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I was referencing your suggestion to add wheelbase. I think that tire volume can provide the solution you are looking for.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Ah, I'm following now. I'm curious how that will work and hope it does. Short chainstays are fun for tight quarters like cx racing, but less fun on rough stuff or descending on an un-suspended frame. Again, I hope I get the chance to try one for myself and see. I'll just need an XL for the stack.

If you go up to the XL you'll get that extra wheelbase you're searching for. ;)

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Nice. I'm just curious to see if the short chainstay thing works well with the gravel type bikes. Hopefully you sell a ton.

The chainstay is still 1cm longer than a short w/b road bike like a BH or Felt. Changing the tire footprint from the width of your thumb to the width of your arm makes far more difference in stability than moving from 415 to 425mm stays. All of these mixed-surface bikes have a "sweet spot" where the intended use is reflected in the design. The EXPLORO offers some aero benefit for those looking for an aero slant and 54mm tire clearance for those looking for a bit more treacherous terrain than a rail-trail or canal path.

There's just more sweet spots.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Looks like I'm going to be able to get my hands on one of these from my LBS in the coming months. I will need to sell and trade some inventory to make this make sense in my head so I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but am starting to spec out the build. I will post some updates on this project to this thread in case anyone has any input/guidance or can benefit from same. My intended use of this thing is first and foremost to better explore the hundreds upon hundreds of miles of dirt roads and rail trails and ATV tracks that surround my home in northeast PA. I also have my eyes on the Dirty Kanza 200 next year. Maybe, maybe I will end up doing some cx racing at some point, but as a poor bike handler and mountain biker, only to stay fit and have fun, so perfection in equipment is not a must.

Things I am questioning:

Handlebar? I have a 3T Ergoterra Team CX bar that I got a few months ago for this project, but I also have a Zipp Vuka Sprint aero road bar thing I could use here as well, which oddly seems to fit the Exploro better with its aero profile. Something else entirely?

1x vs. 2x? This is the big question. I love the simplicity of 1x and all my offroad bikes are set up 1x. But all my road bikes are set up 2x. I'm not a weak rider, but I am a high cadence guy, so I'm no stranger to the 36-28 on the roads or the 32-42 off road. I also hate spinning out on downhills (who doesn't?). My inclination is to start with a 1x setup with a 42T +/- 2T and have the 10-42 SRAM cassette in back. Then, if the spacing of the sprockets drives me nuts, I'll so back to a 34-50 or 36-46 with an 11-32 or 11-36, something like that.

Wheels? I am partial to the SRAM cassette to start because I already have a nice hubset with an XD Driver. My plan is to build those hubs into a set of Flo 45 rims and set them up tubeless. The last thing I want to learn to deal with is tubulars. Will this wheel/tire setup work even for something like cyclocross racing?

Power meter? I'm partial to quarq, but would like to save some money potentially and go with a Power2max. Is there a specific SKU anyone knows about that is ideal for a) BB386EVO and b) can be set up either 1x or 2x? I know the Quarq 110 BCD lines will work for both, but the P2M line remains an enigma to me.

My plan is to go with Di2. Since I plan to start with a 1x setup with a massive dinner plate cassette, I'll begin with an XTR Di2 rear der. As a backup for the potential 2x upheaval (if necessary), I'll have an ultegra mid cage RD and FD. Then if I fall in love with 1x I'll sell those.

I'm all ears to feedback and suggestions.

Currently the Red 22 and Quark PM's will NOT fit on a BB386EVO BB; Force 22, Rival, Apex, and S series PF30 cranks (11 speed) will work. Remove the spacers on the crank and the preload adjuster and use: 3.2mm space with wave washer on non-drive side, 2.5mm spacer plus 3x0.5mm spacers on drive side. (That is what works for the Open UP. If the BB shell width is the same, then that will work. If the shell width is different, you'll have to work it out on your own. I have an Open UP and can confirm that spacer arrangement works.)

Also with regards to 1x or 2x: when you pick the drive train, you are also making a decision about wheels. The issue is that there are no off-the-shelf 650B mountain wheels that are compatible with 11 speed ROAD cassettes. (11 speed road and 11 speed mountain cassettes are not the same spacing.) So if you pick the 2x road drivetrain, the only way to get 650B wheels is to buy rims and lace them to road hubs. Conversely, build it up with SRAM 1x and an XD driver (mountain) 11 speed cassette, and you cannot run a road 11 speed cassette.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

That is ridiculously helpful. Thank you for weighing in

Sort of (on the wheels). Any wheel that has DT free hub body can be traded out for the 11 speed body.
I have done this many times with Enve M50 wheels (650b and 29er/700).
I call Enve up and they say "sure no problem". Then they send it with a 10 speed body and I have to call them to get an 11 speed body.