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Re: wk0 4.0 [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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MTL wrote:
That's one of the problem with software development enough developpers and QA to find and fix all the major bugs.

Bah. That's why you get a group of beta testers together. A single development team will NEVER find all the bugs in anything remotely complex. Package it as is, send to the testers, fix the bugs found.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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rbuike wrote:
It's not vaporware (it's been shown in public a number of times)
It's not cancelled
It's not going to a subscription model
It's not coming before the end of the year anymore :(


Quote:
"Nobody is more disappointed in the delay than we are. I'd call it the worst joke ever. And, given the huge miss on release date, is there really any point to making the same mistake again? The fact is, we're working very hard on it. It's looking good, we're very excited about it, but we won't announce or release it until we are ready. Of course, you are free to use other apps as you see fit, that's our fault for not getting it out sooner. But the reality is, it's now been 4 years since we've updated WKO, so another few months isn't much of a difference. For us, it's about quality, and solving some incredibly cool, incredibly hard physiological and UX challenges. We innovate, others follow, and that's always the most difficult way to move forward. That's about all I can say. - Gear"

Where was this announcement posted?
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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There are beta testers, it is undergoing that process. Unfortunately it is taking much much longer than expected. New models, new UI, Mac and PC.

That said, Gear has made no excuses. It will be ready when it is actually ready and not sooner.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew, Gear posted that on Facebook in response to recent WKO questions and Bryan shared it with me.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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rbuike wrote:
Andrew, Gear posted that on Facebook in response to recent WKO questions and Bryan shared it with me.

Thanks! I had only looked on the TrainingPeaks site.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
MTL wrote:
That's one of the problem with software development enough developpers and QA to find and fix all the major bugs.


Bah. That's why you get a group of beta testers together. A single development team will NEVER find all the bugs in anything remotely complex. Package it as is, send to the testers, fix the bugs found.

John

In this case "A single development team" looks like a single developper and that's probably working on other projects meaning a part time developper...

IMO It will never going to complete it not in a short term (mid-end 2015), there's currently too much/many competition for TrainingPeaks that they focus must beon their butter and bread (website).

IMO they are losing market shares to other software and they need to put all their energy in providing a service that maybe one day will generate enough money to reinvest into WK 4.0 project. It might as well be called WK 5.0 by that time (might see another analytic model expose).
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
"Nobody is more disappointed in the delay than we are. I'd call it the worst joke ever. And, given the huge miss on release date, is there really any point to making the same mistake again? The fact is, we're working very hard on it. It's looking good, we're very excited about it, but we won't announce or release it until we are ready. Of course, you are free to use other apps as you see fit, that's our fault for not getting it out sooner. But the reality is, it's now been 4 years since we've updated WKO, so another few months isn't much of a difference. For us, it's about quality, and solving some incredibly cool, incredibly hard physiological and UX challenges. We innovate, others follow, and that's always the most difficult way to move forward. That's about all I can say. - Gear"

At this point, that feels like a pretty bold claim.

It's disappointing. I've used TP/WKO for several years. I was on all the webinars last Dec but have completely lost enthusiasm for WKO4.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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I have no problem with TP, in fact i have been a premium member for several years and will continue as one, their product just works better than anything out there. Same for WKO+ it is a decent program but now it is not worth the expense with golden cheetah being so robust, power agent providing for free a quality program, and regular TP premium having many power analytical elements.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
I have no problem with TP, in fact i have been a premium member for several years and will continue as one, their product just works better than anything out there. Same for WKO+ it is a decent program but now it is not worth the expense with golden cheetah being so robust, power agent providing for free a quality program, and regular TP premium having many power analytical elements.

Also a long term premium member.
However I let mine lapse. It just isn't at the races feature set nor UX wise.

WKO+ I still use a bit, bot GC more and more.

I'm not sure I see a space for TP anymore, its been filled really.
WKO 3.0, less so now that integration with devices is so poor. Will 4.0 fix this? doubt it. Traingpeaks.com don't seem to have spend the money on quality developers and the product owner should be shot.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
It's not vaporware (it's been shown in public a number of times)

You're right. It's not vaporware. It's unobtainium. WkO 4 is like a bad stripper. Only shows the crowd a little, but not enough often enough to keep people focused. They just peek in now and then to see what's up and they see the same bad stripper trying to work the pole.

Now that GC has a running feature it may be time to give up on WKO 4 once and for all. Although I have to monitor the situation for 5 more days. Then I win 10 glorious $5 bills bc it'll be 1 year late for the release.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: wk0 4.0 [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]
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Supersquid wrote:
Quote:
"Nobody is more disappointed in the delay than we are. I'd call it the worst joke ever. And, given the huge miss on release date, is there really any point to making the same mistake again? The fact is, we're working very hard on it. It's looking good, we're very excited about it, but we won't announce or release it until we are ready. Of course, you are free to use other apps as you see fit, that's our fault for not getting it out sooner. But the reality is, it's now been 4 years since we've updated WKO, so another few months isn't much of a difference. For us, it's about quality, and solving some incredibly cool, incredibly hard physiological and UX challenges. We innovate, others follow, and that's always the most difficult way to move forward. That's about all I can say. - Gear"


At this point, that feels like a pretty bold claim.

WKO3 was released 5 years ago.

When 4.0 arrives I'm sure it will be great, it will be interesting to see if it has anything more than the FTP/FRC "not invented here" PD model (CP/W' came out in 1965, so innovation is a bold claim there). The UX is the thing I'm excited to see. I know how difficult it can be.

I wonder if they'll follow our lead in GC and allow you to define custom date ranges, search and filter expressions, share with multiple online services, maps, comparisons across athletes, seasons, rides and intervals. And if they don't support planning and interval analysis they'll be behind in 12 months.

I wish them well, I really really do, but that kind of comment is "not even wrong".

Mark
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Re: wk0 4.0 [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I wonder if they'll follow our lead in GC and allow you to define custom date ranges, search and filter expressions, share with multiple online services, maps, comparisons across athletes, seasons, rides and intervals. And if they don't support planning and interval analysis they'll be behind in 12 months.

I've been using WKO for several years and haven't used Golden Cheetah mainly because I'm familiar with WKO and it's easy to stick with what you know. I've been thinking about downloading it, but figured with WKO4 coming I'll just wait for it. I think I'm going to download GC and start playing around with it.

I've been following some of your posts about Moxy and find that interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it right now. I can't decide if it's just interesting data or if it could change the way we train. Either way it's interesting to follow.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]
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Supersquid wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if they'll follow our lead in GC and allow you to define custom date ranges, search and filter expressions, share with multiple online services, maps, comparisons across athletes, seasons, rides and intervals. And if they don't support planning and interval analysis they'll be behind in 12 months.


I've been using WKO for several years and haven't used Golden Cheetah mainly because I'm familiar with WKO and it's easy to stick with what you know. I've been thinking about downloading it, but figured with WKO4 coming I'll just wait for it. I think I'm going to download GC and start playing around with it.

I've been following some of your posts about Moxy and find that interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it right now. I can't decide if it's just interesting data or if it could change the way we train. Either way it's interesting to follow.

I think we're all trying to work out where the Moxy will take us !
The data is fascinating.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Well I for one am not a big fan of a lot of the games now that alpha release come play, develop and bug test the game for us in a mass environment. I'd prefer that a very stable, relatively bug free piece of software is produced unless I'm part of the alpha or beta test group. Having said that missing your release date by a year is not good and you are still saying "when Gear say's it ready..."

Who knows I might have to keep using wko3.0 as I have not updated from the powertap little yellow computer. I need to read up on that before I buy 4.0.

Gordon
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Re: wk0 4.0 [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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So a few months more?
It's really a huge miss not making this end of year self imposed deadline with so many patient users getting prepped for their January training kick off dates.
How about a beta release "as is" to your registered users or even a severely temporarily discounted premium online price?
And really if I could take my historical data over to a competing product I think most of us would.

cheers
S.

// qui audet adipiscitur
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Re: wk0 4.0 [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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liversedge wrote:
if it has anything more than the FTP/FRC "not invented here" PD model (CP/W' came out in 1965, so innovation is a bold claim there).

I think the CP/W' model is very clearly sufficiently bad to warrant something new.





Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: wk0 4.0 [spomeroy] [ In reply to ]
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spomeroy wrote:
So a few months more?
It's really a huge miss not making this end of year self imposed deadline with so many patient users getting prepped for their January training kick off dates.
How about a beta release "as is" to your registered users or even a severely temporarily discounted premium online price?
And really if I could take my historical data over to a competing product I think most of us would.

cheers
S.

You still have backups of your power files, yes? Just import them into GC.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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I also have alot of run related data files as well. But none of the original source power files.

So a competing app (I don't think Golden Cheetah does this) that also can help calculate rTSS (and even sTSS) would be extremely important to me..

cheers
S.

// qui audet adipiscitur
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Re: wk0 4.0 [spomeroy] [ In reply to ]
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spomeroy wrote:
So a few months more?
It's really a huge miss not making this end of year self imposed deadline with so many patient users getting prepped for their January training kick off dates.
How about a beta release "as is" to your registered users or even a severely temporarily discounted premium online price?
And really if I could take my historical data over to a competing product I think most of us would.

cheers
S.

+1. I'd buy WKO 3.0 right now if TP has ome discount when upgrading to 4.0 in the future.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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I'd have no problems even paying again for WKO 4.0 when it comes out if it is about the same price as the 3.0 release. Right now the only reason I still maintain a PC is because of only one app: WKO+. Every other tool I use has been successfully imported to the Mac and has been for quite sometimes.

Now look I'm not looking to really slog on TP for this excessive delay. We've all been told multiple times: "It's coming. It's coming. Just a little more time" and "Yes it's been shown publically." Have any end users seen it first hand?
There's alot of very bold claims but nothing substantial to back it up and to be honest the online Premium TP per month cost seems extraordinarily high. Adpbes Creative Cloud monthly cost is about the same but the difference is the app pool the user has access to can be a revenue generator. And that's for EVERY Adobe app. Sure their user base is much larger. But cmon. Even Strava premium is only 6 a month.

And since I've been a TP customer for over 5 years now I've no choice but to wait. Unless a competitor can create something that doesn't land them in hotwater with the PMC and can import all my WKO data files. Swim/Run and Bike.

cheers
S.

// qui audet adipiscitur
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Re: wk0 4.0 [spomeroy] [ In reply to ]
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spomeroy wrote:
Unless a competitor can create something that doesn't land them in hotwater with the PMC and can import all my WKO data files. Swim/Run and Bike

A combination of GC and Raceday Apollo will do that for you on the Mac.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
liversedge wrote:
if it has anything more than the FTP/FRC "not invented here" PD model (CP/W' came out in 1965, so innovation is a bold claim there).

I think the CP/W' model is very clearly sufficiently bad to warrant something new.

My point was one specifically about the boasts of innovating; nothing for 5 years and a secret model that possibly addresses weaknesses in a 50 year old model isn't that !

On the other hand, the W'bal model is innovative and novel.

Mark
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Re: wk0 4.0 [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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liversedge wrote:
On the other hand, the W'bal model is innovative and novel.

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/...s-teams-pursuit.html
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Re: wk0 4.0 [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
liversedge wrote:

On the other hand, the W'bal model is innovative and novel.


http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/...s-teams-pursuit.html

LOL.
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Re: wk0 4.0 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I think the CP/W' model is very clearly sufficiently bad to warrant something new.

Every mathematical model (well, not *every* model!) has some domain of validity. The question is, just how wide is that domain?
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