I even bought a mac in anticipation.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I am in the same boat, i have been using power agent and golden cheetah for most of my analysis, but since i already use training peaks for everything else i would rather use wko+, but i only have mac's so no 3.0 for me. To be honest i have been fairly impressed with the combo of power agent and golden cheetah for most things. That in combination with training peaks does pretty much everything you need. But having everything in one package would be nice, therefore still holding out for 4.0.

I asked back in December the question to TP ESP rgd Mac

They don't know or at least wouldn't disclose a release date

A Mac eh?
Well, that's fine but if start wearing skinny jeans and can't stop talking about the new "St. Vincent" record...

haha, I doubt my quads would fit in skinny jeans. When you say St. Vincent it brings back my Catholic school days. Who knew there was a band called St. Vincent?

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Not sure if you saw this or not, but this is the latest they have posted on their blog... http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...public-beta-now-live

One last note. We had hoped to launch WKO 4.0 today, but as we announced at the end of our last WKO 4.0 webinar, we need more time. Though I know that’s a disappointment to you, it’s critical for us to live up to your high expectations, and our high standards, for the finished product. I’ll make another announcement in early 2014 about release date, but yes, I’m being vague on purpose because it won’t go out until it’s rock solid.
That was posted on December 10th.

---

ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |

"Early 2014"............I guess thats Mar 31.

It's going to be co-released with the Garmin 920XT...

Or June 30th? /sarc

I'm waiting patiently. 3.0 works fine for me but who doesn't want to spend more money for something they probably won't completely utilize? :)

i was using golden cheetah, but all of a sudden my charts quit pulling up. I could click on them, but they all would be blank except for the mmp. I couldnt find much troubleshooting help.

I downloaded the free trial of wko 3.0 and liked it alot. But didnt wanna shell out the money for something when the new stuff is right around the corner

---

Rattlesnake Blake
With the "Venom Enom"

BUMP

Anyone hear any news on release date?

Someone must have stolen ACs idea, or criticized it too much, so he's having to come up with something new.

No updates to share, sorry :(

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Thanks. This is just getting sad. I have TP premium, but told myself six months ago I wouldn't buy WKO 3 because 4 was coming out "soon"...

No. The problem is one of too many cool ideas (not all of which are mine).

I'm using Golden Cheetah for data analysis right now. Why should I upgrade to wko4 when it is released?

---

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

I'm in the exactly the same situation.

I see two potential issues. What do people use in the interim and introducing a new version of a critical part of the training infrastructure, in season. Despite all their best efforts and intentions the balance of software probability is that there will be the odd teething problem. Existing customers can stick with V3 until they are ready and happy V4 is solid enough for them.

One potential solution if WKO 4 is still someway off would be to offer a free upgrade to V4 for customers buying V3 from say April 1st. This is already pretty standard practice amongst many developers of desktop applications and would give TP a bit of positive PR at minimal cost.

I was at a training camp with TP's CTO a month ago and he said this summer, but no exact date.

He said that they had hired more developers to help move it along.

---

ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |

I've suggested this to them in the past, both in forums and on twitter. The uniform response has been paraphrased by me as "Piss off".

I've used TP basic on the web, and as a mac user, I was waiting for the original december launch date of WKO+ 4.0. That came and went, it's been pushed back several times, and at this point in time has no clear timeline. If i've been training this whole time without this, why should I buy it period.

I know this is a rambling post, but the sheer stupidity in NOT offering a free upgrade program amazes me. They could have easily had me as a customer by having a free 3.0-4.0 upgrade program on new purchases, but instead have likely lost me as a customer. I'd rather pay once and have a license for the app, as opposed to paying what is essentially a licensing fee in perpetuity for TP Premium on the web.

I'm in a similar boat....mac user. I have RaceDay, but not sure that's working great for me. Not many choices. It IS pretty short sided to not offer as you suggest. Then again, there does seem to be a fair amount of arrogance there.

Same boat, primarily a mac user but i have an old PC, i would be willing to buy v3 tomorrow if they gave a free upgrade for 4.0 when it comes out. Right now i am using a mix of regular free training peaks and golden cheetah and it has been pretty good so far. I think the learning curve is a bit steeper with GC but after some time it is pretty robust. I tried the free version of Apollo but did not like it, not bad just not my style. I wish strava premium would take a huge leap and challenge TP right now!! Training peaks has no real competition and thus no real motivation to get 4.0 on the market right away or offer some kind of upgrade discount.

Does anyone know if WKO+ 4.0 will work on iPad?

Been sitting on the fence along time re buying the iPad, would be nice to make a decision.

I don't see how....you would need ANT+ to get the data onto the iPad.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I use trainingpeaks on a regular basis but I find their updates absolutely terrible. When you state that a program is going to be released on X date and then you state that it will be delayed there should be bi-weekly, or at least monthly, updates concerning the release date. Trainingpeaks never updates anything ever.

Sorry but I have to chime in here. New mobile apps, new beta web app that is constantly getting updates as they build it out, WKO+4 in development for PC and MAC. That is a metric crap ton of development work that is going on.

Do I wish WKO+4 was out and loaded on my MAC, yes. But understanding the development process and trying to incorporate the feedback has delayed things until a future date. Would you rather have a lousy app released on time or one that works released when it works?

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

No, PC and MAC only.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

No I would rather that TrainingPeaks explain what is delayed, why it is delayed, and why its customers should be thrilled to wait because new changes X, Y, and Z are in the near future.

For example..."WKO+ 4.0 is delayed but never fear, the world's most amazing analytical software is on the way because we have just begun developing......."

Some of the new changes are detailed below...

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...-1-a-primer-on-model

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...t-2-limitations-of-c


http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...ko-4-0-parts-3-and-4

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I have seen all of those. They explain the modeling but barely touch on anything else. What about the user interface? The user experience? What can you do with the modeling? What is taking so long if the modeling has all been established etc?

Like anything it can be done fast, cheap or well. Pick two :)

They are working hard on things but it takes time.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I've gotta jump in here. I'm with the xine2kgts.

TP said they would release this in December. Its April, and they have made very little comments about their progress. Software development and release timelines are what I do every day. To blow a release date by over 3 months? That is off the charts terrible. This isn't understocked bike frames being shipped from Taiwan for Trek. This is a software release. The company I work for does entire releases more quickly than this lag time.

To be clear, delays happen, I understand that. But if you blow it by this much, you've got give regular updates to your users/potential users (if you want to them to love your brand).


Anyway, I'm really bummed about the delay, and since the season has started I've had to go with something else. Oh well.

As do I and sometimes you have to pull back to make sure it's right. The official update is there is nothing to update right now. I wish I knew more.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

It has been nearly 5 years since the release of WKO+ 3.0. It takes time but not that much time.

Lets not pretend that TrainingPeaks didn't neglect (?abandon?) WKO+ in favor of their web based coaching platform. I also speculate that the reason they have returned to WKO+ development is because of the increased of power meter options.

And it still works just fine. My guess is that WKO+ 4.0 integrates a lot of new features TP wants in their website, so the WKO guys are on hold until TP can get these features integrated into the site. That, or they are gunning for a full online version of it, and the work going from an installable app to a web app is tremendous. I agree with the sentiment here that they should keep users in the loop, and be forthright about the nature of the delay. "It's done when it's done" while true, is a poor excuse for keeping users in the dark.

I don't think TP has all the functionality of WKO 3 does it?

But it does make sense to integrate all of WKO 4 into TP and roll out the whole ball of wax at once.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't gone that route already.

Then they could basically say WKO 4.1 or 5.0 is web based on TP only and we'll no longer support both platforms. You'd drive some people away but ultimately you'd offset that with cost savings & increased revenues from coaches that use WKO but not TP.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Exactly. TP is lacking A LOT of things that WKO has, and ultimately the market is moving to web-only subscriptions. Way more $$$ for TP that way, and way less support hassle. And it'll shut up the mac people. Figuring out a way to turn WKO+ into a subscription model is probably high on their agenda. So I think the next version of TP will be WKO+. Or maybe the next version of WKO+ will be labeled Training Peaks Advanced.

I'm still on version 2.2 and it works fine

jaretj

Especially in a world that is headed more and more towards an agile methodology to keep up with the consumer expectations for getting new stuff. Not to mention the fact that consumers today have an attention span that is shorter than....


Wait, what was I saying again?

I agree that transparency is the key here. I'd rather have them keep us updated, even if the projection is rough (ie not set for release until 2015), than hear nothing and have it released in 4 months.

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/...an-played-his-hand-a

I'd read it but Google Translate doesn't have an option for gibberish.

Well after a lot of googling I found it quite interesting :-)

Anybody know if a WKO4 is actually going to be released. I even bought a new MAC in anticipation - how silly am I !!!!!!

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I will jump to Golden Cheetah if WKO+ goes to a subscription model. The longer WKO+ takes, the more comfortable I get using GC.

I'm wholeheartedly against software models which are subscription based that don't need to be, WKO+ isn't NetFlix.

I just finished the trial version of 3.0 and it seemed to be just fine, more robust than GC or Poweragent and still more info than just using training peaks premium. If 4.0 does not release in the next few months i will probably just use 3.0 as it serves all my needs. On a side note the predictive models they are using in 4.0 are cool but how many people are really going to use the feature and or understand all of its limitations?

I also like that it is internet based, then when my computer crashes it does not matter, but the subscription model will always be more expensive.

I may not be imagining all the use cases, but to some extent if you understand the limitations you don't need the model, you can eyeball it really well.

But it is pretty handy. Golden Cheetah already has some similar models built in. Not as robust as Coggan's but for the purposes of estimating your FTP without testing it, and setting power targets for TTs/intervals, should be fine.

Better than the CP model for sure!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I think from a coaching perspective WKO+ 4 is going to be a great leap forward. I love version 3, love the fact I don't have to be connected to the internet to use it, and can really dig into the data. Predictive models and additional run and swim features are just what is needed to make the thing about all you will ever need. Its so frustrating that nothing has been released yet.

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

We really don't know if that is true, yet.

Unless they have changed in the last 30 days I'm fairly confident in saying that from looking at them.

I'm not sure if this has any pragmatic difference though.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Are you a beta tester for WKO 4 ? cool if so.
It will be interesting to finally see the AC model, but I am sceptical of a model that calls actual recorded values that exceed the model 'outliers'.
Also, providing a +/- confidence for the model values when there is no way to know if the input data represents all-out efforts seems equally bogus.

Cheers,
Mark

they tweeted me the other day to answer my tweet from > 6 weeks ago when I asked if the over/under was this year. They said no ETA on it yet.
I'm guessing (aka willing to bet) 2015 but I'm willing to hedge with a 50% bet on after Thanksgiving 2014.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Update on WKO4

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...le/an-update-on-wko4

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Which is more likely to happen first?

1. SurfingLamb posts on his Dropped by his Coach BS thread.
2. WKO 4.0 is released.

I'm saying 1.

---

Suffer Well.

That's actually really good news, and I wonder if this thread provoked them to release a statement. I'm glad I was seemingly wrong, in that this *will* continue to be a stand alone app for PC and now mac.

I don't know if this thread or the other threads triggered the post but I do share the feedback and they are hearing it from other places as well. It surely wasn't planned to be delayed but I think when it's out it will be a big improvement from 3 and much better than if they rushed it out the door in December.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Rapidly approaching the 1 year anniversary of wko+ 4s almost launch. Any new updates?

You were right :-)

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

I'm interested to hear any ETA release date as well.

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

"Here are a few definitive answers we can give right now. Yes, it will be released this year, it will run on both Mac and Windows, and it has some amazing new features to make use of your training data."

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...le/an-update-on-wko4


And still on track....

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

While I look forward to a release of a new version of WKO, seems like the emphasis has shifted more towards supporting and improving the online portal which is not surprising as many such companies are moving away from providing stand-alone applications and more towards subscription- based models.

---

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You are merely a squatter on the SurfingLamb name, not the true occupant of la-la land Bryan Lamb. Pity, though.

I've made a $50 bet with someone that it's at least 365 days late. I'm pretty confident it won't arrive before then.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Only $50? You should have loaded up.

Well this was last March. I was taking the over and giving a lot of ground on the under, or so I thought. Now I almost look like a betting genius!
I should see if he wants to go double or nothing.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

They have 9 weeks left to meet this promise. The fact that their has been so little marketing and communication with regards to the features of 4.0 is so odd. It supports my opinion that the stand alone software model is not a core business strategy for training peaks. Maybe the delay is that the new features (whatever they are) have to also be supported in the Training Peaks web software. Implementing these features on two platforms (wko and web) is slowing down development.

Well I heard Hunter Allen interviewed on IM Talk I think, and he made it seem that some of the functions couldn't be handled on the web because WKO 4 was just so powerful. I'm not a software guy so can't really speak to whether that is correct or not. Hunter also did a few talks in NZ and showed WKO 4 to people I think. So maybe they just will make 9 weeks.

Damn, Black Friday's over...was hoping for a surprise release. I just re-read the Training With Power book in anticipation...

So whats the over under at right now? They have 3 weeks left and i am assuming it is nowhere near being ready. If it was ready they would be promoting it right now or at least talking about it. My estimate is May 2015.

They are looking for a way to make it subscription based I imagine.
That or canned it.

There was a recent email regarding a webinar for coaches where the mentioned WKO+ 4 again, seemed like it's coming soon but it's been coming soon for a while. Definitely not canned, not sure what will be ready when though.

---

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

phrasing

yeah damn good question...they've been kicking the can down the road on this one for what...over a year now?

Cmon guys...the vaporware promises are getting old..

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

It's not vaporware (it's been shown in public a number of times)
It's not cancelled
It's not going to a subscription model
It's not coming before the end of the year anymore :(

Quote:

"Nobody is more disappointed in the delay than we are. I'd call it the worst joke ever. And, given the huge miss on release date, is there really any point to making the same mistake again? The fact is, we're working very hard on it. It's looking good, we're very excited about it, but we won't announce or release it until we are ready. Of course, you are free to use other apps as you see fit, that's our fault for not getting it out sooner. But the reality is, it's now been 4 years since we've updated WKO, so another few months isn't much of a difference. For us, it's about quality, and solving some incredibly cool, incredibly hard physiological and UX challenges. We innovate, others follow, and that's always the most difficult way to move forward. That's about all I can say. - Gear"

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Duke Nukem, anyone?

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

That's one of the problem with software development enough developpers and QA to find and fix all the major bugs.

Bah. That's why you get a group of beta testers together. A single development team will NEVER find all the bugs in anything remotely complex. Package it as is, send to the testers, fix the bugs found.

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Where was this announcement posted?

There are beta testers, it is undergoing that process. Unfortunately it is taking much much longer than expected. New models, new UI, Mac and PC.

That said, Gear has made no excuses. It will be ready when it is actually ready and not sooner.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Andrew, Gear posted that on Facebook in response to recent WKO questions and Bryan shared it with me.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Thanks! I had only looked on the TrainingPeaks site.

In this case "A single development team" looks like a single developper and that's probably working on other projects meaning a part time developper...

IMO It will never going to complete it not in a short term (mid-end 2015), there's currently too much/many competition for TrainingPeaks that they focus must beon their butter and bread (website).

IMO they are losing market shares to other software and they need to put all their energy in providing a service that maybe one day will generate enough money to reinvest into WK 4.0 project. It might as well be called WK 5.0 by that time (might see another analytic model expose).

At this point, that feels like a pretty bold claim.

It's disappointing. I've used TP/WKO for several years. I was on all the webinars last Dec but have completely lost enthusiasm for WKO4.

I have no problem with TP, in fact i have been a premium member for several years and will continue as one, their product just works better than anything out there. Same for WKO+ it is a decent program but now it is not worth the expense with golden cheetah being so robust, power agent providing for free a quality program, and regular TP premium having many power analytical elements.

Also a long term premium member.
However I let mine lapse. It just isn't at the races feature set nor UX wise.

WKO+ I still use a bit, bot GC more and more.

I'm not sure I see a space for TP anymore, its been filled really.
WKO 3.0, less so now that integration with devices is so poor. Will 4.0 fix this? doubt it. Traingpeaks.com don't seem to have spend the money on quality developers and the product owner should be shot.

You're right. It's not vaporware. It's unobtainium. WkO 4 is like a bad stripper. Only shows the crowd a little, but not enough often enough to keep people focused. They just peek in now and then to see what's up and they see the same bad stripper trying to work the pole.

Now that GC has a running feature it may be time to give up on WKO 4 once and for all. Although I have to monitor the situation for 5 more days. Then I win 10 glorious $5 bills bc it'll be 1 year late for the release.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

WKO3 was released 5 years ago.

When 4.0 arrives I'm sure it will be great, it will be interesting to see if it has anything more than the FTP/FRC "not invented here" PD model (CP/W' came out in 1965, so innovation is a bold claim there). The UX is the thing I'm excited to see. I know how difficult it can be.

I wonder if they'll follow our lead in GC and allow you to define custom date ranges, search and filter expressions, share with multiple online services, maps, comparisons across athletes, seasons, rides and intervals. And if they don't support planning and interval analysis they'll be behind in 12 months.

I wish them well, I really really do, but that kind of comment is "not even wrong".

Mark

I've been using WKO for several years and haven't used Golden Cheetah mainly because I'm familiar with WKO and it's easy to stick with what you know. I've been thinking about downloading it, but figured with WKO4 coming I'll just wait for it. I think I'm going to download GC and start playing around with it.

I've been following some of your posts about Moxy and find that interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it right now. I can't decide if it's just interesting data or if it could change the way we train. Either way it's interesting to follow.

I think we're all trying to work out where the Moxy will take us !
The data is fascinating.

Well I for one am not a big fan of a lot of the games now that alpha release come play, develop and bug test the game for us in a mass environment. I'd prefer that a very stable, relatively bug free piece of software is produced unless I'm part of the alpha or beta test group. Having said that missing your release date by a year is not good and you are still saying "when Gear say's it ready..."

Who knows I might have to keep using wko3.0 as I have not updated from the powertap little yellow computer. I need to read up on that before I buy 4.0.

Gordon

So a few months more?
It's really a huge miss not making this end of year self imposed deadline with so many patient users getting prepped for their January training kick off dates.
How about a beta release "as is" to your registered users or even a severely temporarily discounted premium online price?
And really if I could take my historical data over to a competing product I think most of us would.

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

I think the CP/W' model is very clearly sufficiently bad to warrant something new.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

You still have backups of your power files, yes? Just import them into GC.

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

I also have alot of run related data files as well. But none of the original source power files.

So a competing app (I don't think Golden Cheetah does this) that also can help calculate rTSS (and even sTSS) would be extremely important to me..

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

+1. I'd buy WKO 3.0 right now if TP has ome discount when upgrading to 4.0 in the future.

I'd have no problems even paying again for WKO 4.0 when it comes out if it is about the same price as the 3.0 release. Right now the only reason I still maintain a PC is because of only one app: WKO+. Every other tool I use has been successfully imported to the Mac and has been for quite sometimes.

Now look I'm not looking to really slog on TP for this excessive delay. We've all been told multiple times: "It's coming. It's coming. Just a little more time" and "Yes it's been shown publically." Have any end users seen it first hand?
There's alot of very bold claims but nothing substantial to back it up and to be honest the online Premium TP per month cost seems extraordinarily high. Adpbes Creative Cloud monthly cost is about the same but the difference is the app pool the user has access to can be a revenue generator. And that's for EVERY Adobe app. Sure their user base is much larger. But cmon. Even Strava premium is only 6 a month.

And since I've been a TP customer for over 5 years now I've no choice but to wait. Unless a competitor can create something that doesn't land them in hotwater with the PMC and can import all my WKO data files. Swim/Run and Bike.

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

A combination of GC and Raceday Apollo will do that for you on the Mac.

My point was one specifically about the boasts of innovating; nothing for 5 years and a secret model that possibly addresses weaknesses in a 50 year old model isn't that !

On the other hand, the W'bal model is innovative and novel.

Mark

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/...s-teams-pursuit.html

LOL.

Every mathematical model (well, not *every* model!) has some domain of validity. The question is, just how wide is that domain?

LOL yourself, "Frank". As far as I have been able to determine, I was the very 1st to propose/pursue calculation of "on-the-fly" changes in non-sustainable energy reserves. Perhaps you have some evidence to the contrary?

EDIT: Actually, I take that back - Morton and Billat tested an approach back in 2004. However, they simply assumed that recovery followed a mono-exponential time course with a time constant of 20 s, and used the model to calculate CP and W', not changes in W' over time. (Interestingly, said estimates did *not* agree with those obtained using continuous tests.)

High on your own gas again.

Just setting the record straight, "Frank".

I look forward to seeing the latest development of it in wko 4.

I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

Do you believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy as well as rTSS and sTSS?

hahaha...cute...

S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

Do you believe in GOVSS, Dave? rTSS is just a far-simpler path to essentially the same end-result.

You are not alone.

Shockingly not gonna be ready this year.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...al,-but-not-here-yet

Just replying to thread not you doc. Know you have nothing to do with the software.

..very cool...looking forward to it..


cheers
S.

---

// qui audet adipiscitur

This is approaching legend status like Duke Nukem "Taking" Forever.

Is WKO+ ONLY targeted at coaches with teams of professional cyclists? All the WKO 4 demos seem to really point that way.

It seems like a severely niche market.. maybe a few 3-5x hundred customers worldwide?

Nope, it seems that way because the majority of new features and functionality (aside from UI) are cycling related.

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Its not really targeted at anyone is it - because they can't get it released!

---

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

EDIT: Just checked and in fact it's sold under coaching on TP's website which makes sense.


Money talks. I think that answers my question ;^)

I'd be curious if there are ideas on how TP's recent acquisition puzzles in with WKO 4. Just 3 weeks ago they bought a website to predict cycling finish times based on "advanced math". Which is sortof... "interesting"... given that WKO's "magic sauce" is tools to help coaches assess their cyclist performance.

I can imagine how to orchestrate these long term, but man... 3 separate pieces of software (TP classic, best bike split, WKO) seems a big challenge. And they've got the music software company they bought too back in August.

It's sold under the Athlete section of the website too :)

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

For anyone that wants offline analysis (Mac or PC), seamless TP sync, and appreciates the ability to customize, slice & dice data in almost any way possible, WKO4 will be for you. Oh, and it's targeted at cyclists, multisport athletes, runners, XC skiers etc. that is, endurance athletes and coaches.

But when? There are at least 3 other programmes on the market that kick WKO into touch these days if you are a cyclist - and they are probably better at the multi sport thing these days as well.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

To be honest, I waited long enough for wko 4.0 that I gave up and learned Golden Cheetah. I can't foresee any features of 4.0 that are going to compel me to buy it as an upgrade over Golden Cheetah.

Were you self-taught through trial and error, or did you find some kind of help guide for setting up GC?

Combination of the users guide, FAQ, the google group and trial/error. Since it is free I was willing to put in a bit of work to learn it.

It's going to be outdated the day it's released.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

That's true of any program that isn't/can't be constantly updated/modified, no?

Video Tutorials at http://www.goldencheetah.org/#section-tutorials
Full User Guide at https://github.com/...ain-Page_Users-Guide
FAQ at https://github.com/...ldenCheetah/wiki/FAQ
User Forum at https://groups.google.com/...golden-cheetah-users
Science Primer at http://www.goldencheetah.org/#section-science

Most resources are signposted from our website where you can download the latest release http://www.goldencheetah.org/#section-download

Mark

I was just making fun of how long it's taking them to build this. In today's software environment, updates need to be fast. Personally, I have no need for WKO+ but I also like TP Premium. I enjoy being able to have access to my data online and from any where.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Good resources. Every year when my TP account expires I toy with going to GC. If I moved away from TP Premium it would be to GC. I don't trust WKO+ to be updated or supported in the long-run. Especially after all the delay's etc.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Thanks, Mark; those resources are exactly what I need. I was going to use the upcoming GC/Kickr integration as an incentive for switching over, but I should probably start running WKO and GC in parallel now in anticipation of the spring GC release.

Thanks also for all your work on GC.

--Gene

Thank you for the information, i myself have played with GC but have not made the switch over yet because of the learning curve (WKO+ and power agent user).

So has WKO+ 4.0 simply disappeared? I have heard no news since December or so which would suggest they are having major difficulties. The new TP android app is nice and the new online version is nice as well, but nothing spectacular that should warrant all hands on deck. I have been playing around with GC but it is not as intuitive as WKO or power agent.

It's still coming, there will be more news soon but I can't say more without getting in trouble :(

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

So is the Zombie Apocalypse, The Rapture, and The End Of The World...

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I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

Except I've seen WKO4 up close and personal :)

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

This is the worst part of the whole 4.0 debacle. Every month or so Hunter Allen or someone else from training peaks pops up and says something to the effect of its coming soon and it will be great. They'd be so much better off with a quick apology and laying low until there is something tangible. Constantly leading consumers on isn't winning them any customers.

I successfully knocked my wife up when WKO4 was already 9 months late, and the baby was born like 3 days ago. I'm super impressed.

I bet my wife and I make another human before I'm using WKO4.

BURN.

Someone get TP's contact info and so we can get them this info ASAP.

Congrats on the new one Scott!

I think Training Peaks need to discover the edict "under promise, over deliver"... this wins customers!

..so what's the latest on this? project finally shelved or another vague release date?

cheers
S.

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// qui audet adipiscitur

Beta in progress and updated builds are coming fast and furious. They know patience has been tested but trust me it's still coming.

No date yet but it's definitely not shelved!

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

any way to get on that beta list? and what are the Mac system requirements at this time?

cheers
S.

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// qui audet adipiscitur

I haven't seen any system requirements but my mid-2012 Air with i5 and 4GB RAM is doing fine. It is not a public beta yet, not sure if it will be. I'll post here if/when there is an update.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

that's too bad...a limited public beta would do alot to quell current customers frustrations with such a delayed release...


cheers
S.

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// qui audet adipiscitur

Even just being able to post a couple of screenshots :)

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Get ready for a traingpeaks rep to tell us "its coming and its going to be amazing"

Thanks for typing that for me :)

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Little late for April 1. LOL

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

2014 or 2015?

An icon has to be good for something right considering how much I suck at Photoshop :)

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Oh things have changed. Normally Trainingpeaks do "alpha -> new version goes live with no features"

Any details on the cost of the monthly subscription?

WKO should be a standalone platform so one time fee. If it ever gets released that is.

Watch the head-fake... WKO 5 announcement is in the works. They've integrated with MakeMusic, so tri coaches can pick up off season work teaching flute and oboe.

(insert lame joke laugh track here)

EDIT: Whoa. Weird comment editing. :\

Hey folks... we really appreciate everyone's interest in WKO4. Obviously, we are waaaaay behind where we hoped we'd be. That's pretty easy fodder for the haters to hate. However, once we started pulling on a thread, we saw things unravel and we made the decision 1.5 years ago (holy hell, I can't believe it was that long ago) to just totally rewrite the app which we had just rewritten, double down and create exactly what we wanted. Timing be damned. So that's what we've been doing. Today, we're in the midst of our third private beta, tweaking, testing and refining.


In retrospect, we should have never started talking about it and kept toiling away.. but, lesson learned. So we are holding tight until we're 100% confident of launch day. And by God, we better get it done before @Sentania has another baby (congrats by the way).


When it launches, it will be opinionated software, and it will be the tip of the spear in our ecosystem of products for many years to come. We're dying to release it to the world, and you'll know it when we do.


-Gear

Thanks for the post - hopefully we see the results of your guys work soon. As much as I joke/poke I am looking forward to it. It's annoying to me to have this ~200 bucks burning a hole in my wallet, but try as I might I just can't find something to replace WKO - so I continue to wait.


One teaser question: will there be any performance regression/prediction features built in? i.e. Similar to what RaceDay does?

I'm just going to leave this here.....http://www.joelonsoftware.com/...s/fog0000000069.html for the next time you decide to do a rewrite.

Yes and no. There are times when you are doing much more than a v1 to v2 type release which does require rewrite.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Brave move - saying "this is what you want", rather than "here is what you want".

If you have gauged your clients correctly then super for you. If its like the new trainingpeaks UI, or indeed the old one when that replace the version before...........

Short answer: Yes, but it's just the start. The power duration model that is core to WKO4 will form the foundation of a lot of predictive capabilities to come. But I don't want to overstate expectations, so I'll just leave it at that.

That is really awesome news. Really looking forward to it.


You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. Also this ;)
But regardless this is great news and look forward to playing with it.

I pegged it at closer to $300. Then I put that into a 2 biotech stocks when it didn't come out and now it's $1600+

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

"That's pretty easy fodder for the haters to hate."


Currently using WKO+3.0 and satisfied for the most part. Not really all that concerned about the timeline on 4.0, I understand the decisions made and support that. Pretty unfortunate wording right there though.

just take my money already :-)

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