Milo is smart and articulate to bad he has to be such the troll.

Trolling gets addictive that sometimes you don't realize you are getting close to going too far until you have.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

what did he say that is excusing pedophilia? i read the article but didnt see anything that seemed that way.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

“first mainstream conservative who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy"

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I don't think what he said excuses or promotes pedophilia but I can certainly understand how others might take it that way, but I'm a person who is of the thought that pedophilia means attraction to prepubescent children. I'm also of the thought that the age of consent is entirely arbitrary.

Also, the video of Milo saying what he said is heavily edited and this attack on him is based in homophobic stereotypes (stereotypes that Milo actually helped perpetuate with his words).

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

two things, apparently.

milo yiannopoulos: “you’re misunderstanding what pedophilia means. paedophilia is not a sexual attraction to somebody 13-years old who is sexually mature. paedophilia is attraction to children who have not reached puberty. pedophilia is a attraction to people who don’t have functioning sex organs yet. who have not gone through puberty. who are too young to be able to understand. that is not what we are talking about.”

interviewer: “you are advocating cross-generational relationships here. can we be honest about that?"

milo yiannopoulos: “yeah i don't mind admitting that. and i think particularly in the gay world and outside the catholic church if that is where some of you wanna go with this. i think in the gay world some of the most important enriching and incredibly life affirming, important shaping relationships very often between younger boys and older men, they can be hugely positive experiences.”

that speaks for itself. everyone can decide for himself whether and how far that crosses the line.

secondly, the tenor of the interview is seen as perpetuating the myth that gay men are predisposed toward pedophilia (tho milo doesn't consider it pedophilia). the "particularly in the gay world" part.

i understand his very technical (and questionably accurate) point, that someone who is underage but is post-puberty is technically not (according to him) the target of classic pedophiles.

still, he had a lot of opportunity in that interview to state that the onset of puberty does not equal the onset of consent, or the ability to give or form consent. or to acknowledge that priests are using the power they hold over post-pubescent boys in a way that can cause extreme pain and damage. he resisted every chance he was given.

i honestly don't think he was trolling. i think he extrapolated from his own experience and normalized it. he discounted the possibility that an adult can use his power to take sexual advantage of someone not near ready to consent.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I said NAMBLA not pedaphilia. Others are implying such. To me pedaphilia is an adult prepubescent child. For the sake of simplicity 12 or younger.

Now what he said described the minor teenager to adult male mentor Relationship that is much more accepted in the gay community that often becomes sexual and is certainly illegal once that line is crossed.

While it may be more accepted and common in the gay community (to what extent I'm unsure), it is unnaccetable in general.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

What you read has apparently been heavily edited.

We'll need to see/hear the interview in its entirety to see whether or not he took the "opportunity in that interview to state that the onset of puberty does not equal the onset of consent".

I don't know if he did or not. The rest of my thoughts on this are stated above and I say this as someone who, at a young age, had a sexual relationship with a much older woman, a relationship for which I am eternally grateful.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Serious question here. Who is this guy

I had not heard of him before Berkley and now he seems like the man of the hour/day. What's his story? Why as a conservative would I choose to listen to him?

In case it's not obvious I don't tune in to Breit Bart . My impression is it is huff post for the right

"What you read has apparently been heavily edited."

i didn't read it. i watched it. and it wasn't edited at all. it was 6+ minutes, straight through. want me to show you a link? i'm happy to see the part before, where he says, "everything that comes after this is what i really do not believe."

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In short he's a free speech absolutist, Trump supporting gay catholic Jew anti-Islamist who loves to have sex with black guys and will not back down from any verbal fight.

I disagree with him about a lot of things but absolutely love that people like him exist.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"While it may be more accepted and common in the gay community"

source? if we're talking again?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

If it's the same six minute video I saw it is one that, according to Milo, has been heavily edited.

I don't know if it was or not.

Without much doubt Milo is saying that, in some cases, it's ok (or even good) for a 13 year old boy to have a sexual relationship with a "grown man".

And I think this is a perfectly good discussion to have. I also think that people can believe what it appears that Milo does without being a pedophile, or someone who is excusing pedophilia.

All that said, I can see where someone might get the impression that Milo is excusing pedophila (even though I disagree with that opinion).

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

ok i get that, thanks for the clarification. i thought it was just the part of the article where he explained why something wasnt pedophilia. the pedantic asshole in me has to agree, but the rest of what he says definitely seems wrong. if he had stipulated consenting adults across a wide age range, that would be fine. "young boys" sounds terrible.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

"If it's the same six minute video I saw it is one that, according to Milo, has been heavily edited."

pretty damned good editing job then. it looked light it was 6 straight minutes of Q&A, no break, seamless.

"Without much doubt Milo is saying that, in some cases, it's ok (or even good) for a 13 year old boy to have a sexual relationship with a "grown man"."

allowing this for a moment - and i don't stipulate to it for a second, but putting on my expansive-thinker hat - i really didn't hear him try to circumscribe that very tightly. it was closer to hey, it's a good thing, standard practice, we're better for it, than, let me be very clear, this was my experience only and i want to be very careful about the damage caused because of the power adult men can hold over kids in their early teens.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So......if I have never listened to a word he has said thus far, is there any reason for me to start now?

Judging by what you write here I don't think you'd like the guy. But if you're like me in that you like listening to or reading things that you don't like or don't agree with then you may get a kick out of him. But honestly I think he'd be too crass for your taste.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I generally don't feel bad about people who draw attention to themselves, or profit, from running their mouth and being obnoxious finally crossing a line according to the wrong person and paying for it. Cry me a river.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

After working in a middle school for almost a decade with five years of coaching MS track and XC after that, I disagree that it is a perfectly good discussion to have.

This. Part of my thinks he was trolling. But, frankly, I don't care. Whether he said it for effect or truly believes it, he advocated, or at least excused, pedophilia. I find that to be disgusting. I don't know why he has been given a soap box, but he has. With that comes responsibility. He did not exercise it. So, now he can go back into obscurity.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'll talk with you, just not about stupid stuff that is open to the partisan lens. We seem to agree on this. You also took out the part where I said to what extent, I do not know. Google is your friend (intergenerational gay relationship).

This is a little more personal for me. My dad is gay and came out when I was adult. He even told me that he never had the adult mentor to guide him through the rough teenage years that most have. He also told me that it was more common for teenage gay males to have sexual relationships with adult males with an adult being their first. I have also heard this from several others. Now that might be bullshit, but it is something I have heard beyond this statement. That is why I said to what extent I don't know. It could be isolated, it might not be, but I have heard it is more accepted so take it with a grain of salt as I'm not talking on facts here.

I think you hit the nail on the head that his statements perpetuate a myth that gay males are more prone to pedophilia. The anti-gay/right wing community has often used that baseless fact to support the myth. In fact, a quick google search of this top shows junk science studies from the likes of Regent University (Pat Robertson's college) and other BS rightwing sights. But there is some support for their wacky ideas, you wanted a source, see below. "Canadian writer Gerald Hannon made headlines in late 1977 when he published his now infamous article "Men Loving Boys Loving Men" for a local Toronto queer publication, "The Body Politic." He wanted to shed light on the fact that such relationships do exist in a consensual context; nor should they be categorized as pedophilia, molestation, or predatory."

I could see why Milo's statements cross the lines for anybody who has fought hard for gay rights. Like the article reference above and linked below, it reinforces confirmation bias.

http://www.edgemedianetwork.com/...nment/culture/124733

Not pedophilia but definitely perpetuates the stereotype. I'm also skeptical that the younger guy in these 30+ age difference relationships is always 18.

https://www.queerty.com/...lationships-20131213

http://www.out.com/...tional-relationships

http://www.washingtonblade.com/...ner-34-years-senior/

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Yea, me either.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That's nice to know that your teaching experience has made you the arbiter of what can and can't be talked about.

Here's an idea, if you don't want to talk about something then don't. Just stay out of the way of those that do.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Thanks I read lots that I don't agree with. More than I do agree with. But you are right I don't need more crass in my life

So when the whole Berkeley thing happened I realized that I also didn't know anything about himother than hearing the name. So I googled a talk he gave as part of the college tour in California at cal poly SLO. I recommend you watch at least a bit and decide for yourself. My takeaway was that he was a gay male Kim Kardashian. He plays a role, almost a character. The other thing it reminded me of was Kaufmans Tony Clifton, just says outrageous things to get a rise. And it's working as he is, or was, making money I suppose his take could be seen as entertainment for some.

But now we have Breitbartianz that actually believe this guys character so he's getting taken more seriously. He was a bright flame, and bright flames burn out fast. He certainly seems headed in that direction with CPAC and his book deal being canceled

"He was a bright flame, and bright flames burn out fast."

he has a spark to him. he's ungoverned by convention, in a kerouac way, and that's attractive. he was always destined to crash and burn among those for whom conservatism includes reticence to social change.

he's perfectly trumpian. i think he will continue to have a following, for the same reason trump has one. he's a bomb thrower. ideology is incidental to his attraction.

if he is entirely cast off from republicanism he'll emerge like a phoenix as a liberal, kind of a reverse dick morris. i just don't think he's done as a conservative yet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Not sure if he'll keep his job at Brietbart, but apparently his book deal has already been cancelled.

I think a fair reading of all he said is probably less inflammatory than some are describing, but he's got a reputation, and when you repeatedly push the boundaries, you can't be surprised when people don't give you much benefit of the doubt.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

He was on Maher this week. If you want to see the best part watch the after show video. Larry Willmore shows how to handle trolls. And there just doesn't seem like there is enough substance there to bother with the bullshit. His schtick is just seeing how far he can push the trolling and then mock the people who take offense.

Duffy described him as a first amendment absolutist. But only in the sense that he wants to see how outrageous he can be and still get people who support first amendment rights to say he should be allowed to say it. I just am not sure what the substance that he brings to the table that would make me want to wade through the crap. If we want a first amendment champions we should choose people with something to actually say.

But this is also a perfect example of why the first amendment is so great. He gets to say anything he wants. This goes way over the line and I don't think it was just trolling. Then he has to pay the price. But this is most definitely not the first time he has gone way over the line.

I'm just waiting for all the people who were up in arms about the liberals shutting him down (of course way over the line when they rioted) to now complain about the conservatives shutting him down.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I saw the wilmore takes. Seems like something for everyone. You go to the daily beast and wilmore creamed him. You go to towbhall the opposite. Eye of the beholder or partisan bias I guess.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Not so much the content but the respect trolls should be shown. When someone is purely trolling, trying to discuss it with them is pointless. If one person tries to discuss the fine points and the other person is flinging boogers the person trying to be reasonable ends up looking foolish. Milo's reason to be seems as it is to get under people's skin. That is a pretty crappy life goal. I'm just not sure what other point he has.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

He is not now, nor ever was, a conservative.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

He's been going after the PC police for a long time because of their apparent lack of deference to the 1st amendment. He uses his outrageous rhetoric as a tool to demonstrate his targets' desires to shut down speech they don't like.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Wow. He really is like Trump.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

saw him on the Maher show video, I don’t like either one of those guys.

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sometimes

That was exactly my impression after the Maher interview - he is a master at trolling and very articulate in his way of throwing snot at you and making you look stupid. He'll say whatever seems too trigger a significant response and build on that. He's definitely going to have a certain following though it will be small because his ideas are very conservative but at the same time his pretty expressive gayness will cause him to be rejected by a large section of the conservatives. Overall he seems to be someone to just ignore - you won't learn anything from him, and he'll only get under your skin with his attention-seeking statements.

Sort of like how I've treated dan's trolling lately.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Yes. He's a reactionary in the literal sense. He only exists to resist the PC police. There is no other issue for him.
That's why Maher liked him and Wilmore hated him.

Yeah, Wilmore's genius rebuttal, "go fuck yourself".

There you have it.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"He is not now, nor ever was, a conservative."

i agree with you. nevertheles, CPAC invited him to speak. it's a strange world.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That it is.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Didn't we go through all if this with Polanski?

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

No. Polanski banged a girl (yes, that's different) and he's a confirmed liberal.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

So among all the issues I am not following this that closely. Explain the difference. Too lazy to research it.
You can pm if appropriate

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

Polanski banged a girl (yes, that's different) and he's a confirmed liberal, which makes it ok.

Also, Milo did not (that we know of) have sex with a minor. Apparently he was the minor who had sex.

Milo only TALKED about men having sex with younger men.

Polanski was the adult MAN who had actual sex with a minor GIRL and was wanted by law enforcement so he fled to France.

Do you see the difference now?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

can you find anyone who says this? i know a lot of liberals who absolutely detest him for what he did. i have never heard anyone say it was ok.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I don't think any conservatives signed this (but I could be wrong)...

http://www.indiewire.com/...nski-petition-55821/

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Including his victim

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...ctim-allowed-US.html

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I tend to agree with Dan, that he wasn't necessarily trolling with those comments that got him in trouble. I think he was speaking truthfully, as he perceives it, from his own perspective in that area. The comment about being better at giving head was a pretty clear example of gallows humor. Any number of liberal leaning comedians could've said the same thing and it wouldn't have generated nearly as much press. Louis and whatshername/Jimmy Kimmel's girlfriend in particular.

It's a little puzzling that CPAC tapped him for the keynote address in the first place (it was the keynote slot, right?). I mean, it's emblematic of what's wrong with the right today--elevating grievance screamers above positive conservatism advocates--but he's a side stage act and should have remained there, if anywhere in that venue.

Wilmore's response was perfect, actually. I don't agree with his politics, but his GFY was the kind of buzzsaw that was needed to cut through Milo's stream of noise.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I watched the video of Milo on Bill Maher's show. It looked to me like three guys shouting down Milo while simultaneously telling him not to interrupt and to go fuck himself as a geeky republican looked on uncomfortably.

And Bill Maher saying something to the effect that "humor" isn't funny when it intentionally hurts individuals was a pretty blatant example of hypocrisy.

And, yes Milo came across pretty bad in that format.

He was on a Joe Rogan podcast awhile back. Listen to him in long form and when the schtick wears off a bit you'll see that Milo actually makes some pretty solid sense in some cases.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

i dont see anyone arguing that its ok because hes a liberal. i think people are saying, because the g
victim says it, that its been long enough and he shouldnt be charged.

im not excusing it, im just disagreeing with your assessment.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I didn't say people are saying "it's ok because he's a liberal".

I said people are saying "it's ok", because he's a liberal.

Bill Clinton (at minimum) used his position of power to get his dick sucked by a girl half his age and is a hero to the left.

Bob Packwood groped a woman much closer to his age in an elevator, she rebuffed him and he stopped, and he was driven out of office.

There's a double standard.

Trump talked about grabbing pussy and that him a misogonyst. Ted Kennedy actually grabbed pussy...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Don't get me wrong, I think he's far more correct on most of his discussion points than not, particularly on the point of the left and free speech.

He bears responsibility for the fallout, to an extent. He's a bit of a shock jock social commentarian who works on the razor's edge, so it was only a matter of time until he bled, and the left wouldn't miss an opportunity to make sure the cut ran as deep as possible.

I'm more sympathetic to his message than not.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

To up the ante- Polanski the sick fuck nailed the 13 year old in the pooper.

I agree but I still think it's arguable as to whether what he said in this case is right or wrong.

One of my best friends growing up is gay and his parents (mostly dad) weren't very supportive. He had a relationship as a teen with and older man who actually helped him a lot.

When I was a teen I had a relationship with an older woman for which I am very grateful.

These older/younger relationships aren't automatically bad because of some arbitrary numerical "age of consent" and the idea that being attracted to someone under 18 but has fully mature and functioning sex organs makes you a pedophile is incorrect.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I have a different take but I'm not going there...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

i understand what youre saying and i disagree.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I've argued that point on more than one occasion here (not that it encounters much opposition; most people understand this). I believe the last time a similar discussion occurred was with veganerd regarding a useless term to describe sexual attraction to a sexually mature teen between the ages of 14 and 19. It defines nothing of utility or value whatsoever.

Relationships among sexually mature people aren't as neat and categorical as the law and customs imply. Obviously there are good reasons to protect minors, but that's not to say that minors are always damaged by sexual relationships with legal age adults, particularly when the age gap is narrow. My grandfather met my grandmother while riding the same public transit bus in Philly. She was 16 on her way to school, he was 22 on his way to work. They married a year or so later, raised a family, and parted at death. She was by a wide margin the most rock solid stable, sane, capable, clear-eyed woman in my family. Her marriage was probably closer to the rule, rather than the exception, at that time in history. Now, he'd be locked up and put on a sexual predator list.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

"Bob Packwood groped a woman much closer to his age in an elevator, she rebuffed him and he stopped, and he was driven out of office."

"a woman"?

you are perpetuating the very myth that has caused so much grief between americans on different sides of political equations: that republicans are more inherently better moral actors than democrats.

mark foley, david vitter, larry craig, denny hastert blah blah blah. if you want to give me a list of the democrats, that will simply prove my point, that they're equal! altho just thinking about it i think republicans are more likely to get caught in homosexual scandals because democrats are more likely to be like barney frank: hey! i'm gay! and republicans are more likely to hide in shame (michael huffington), tho shame can happen to democrats (jim mcgreevey).

the reason the hammer falls harder on republicans (if it does) is because republicans insist on parading themselves as morally superior. bob packwood's case was not simply, "groped a woman much closer to his age in an elevator, she rebuffed him and he stopped."

19 women went public, accusing bob packwood of sexual assault and harassment. he then destroyed or altered evidence (his diary) subpoenaed by the senate ethics committee.

i'm not saying that packwood is any worse than any democrat. members of both parties are equally repugnant, and equally heroic.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

you remember our discussion correctly and i also agree with the rest of what you wrote.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

if there was only one name, it would be woody allen.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

So the feminists defended Clinton and attacked Packwood because republicans insist on parading themselves as morally superior?
I want to trust you on this one but...

"So the feminists defended Clinton and attacked Packwood because republicans insist on parading themselves as morally superior?"

republicans impeached clinton, public hearing, huge thing. packwood's senate ethics hearing was kept behind closed doors, lots of outcry about that. i think we both could dig up cases where we think one side got the shaft, or the other side got off too easy.

i think what all sides would like is to have symmetric, proportional justice. properly scaled to the transgression. i'll make you a deal. if republicans here quit trying to say they are getting the shaft while the other side skates, and i'll agree with you that nobody on either side is disproportionately getting the shaft.

altho i could probably use a better term than getting the shaft.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I said no such thing. My point is that the press and (much of) "public opinion" come down much harder on the transgressions of republicans (and much of the condemnation is well deserved).

I never said Democrats engage in more shitty behavior, they just get away with it more (Clinton, Kennedy and holy crap have you seen how creepy Joe Biden is around young girls?????).


I agree.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Bill Clinton is the epitome of a misogynist. His status among so-called advocates for women is mind boggling.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"Bill Clinton is the epitome of a misogynist. His status among so-called advocates for women is mind boggling"

donald trump is the epitome of a misogynist. His status among women (or any) republican voters is mind boggling.

it took you one post to backslide from your agreement with me that both sides can acts in ways equally morally repugnant.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Just because I didn't say that Trump is a misogynist doesn't mean I don't think he is.

Trump isn't defended by "advocates for women" either. Quite the opposite. All I'm asking for is consistency. If you engage in misogynistic behavior you should be condemned by "advocates for women", or not, whether you are a D or a R.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"Trump isn't defended by "advocates for women" either."

stop it! there are plenty of women defending trump, they want to be heard, they are heard, they are quoted, many articles, many interviews.

as to those who defend each man, what they uniformly defend is not the behavior but the policy. i don't think that because you are a trump supporter you are an apologist for his behavior. i think you are a supporter in spite of his behavior. please give those who support clinton's policies the dignity of the same understanding i am giving you.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

stop it! there are plenty of women defending trump, they want to be heard, they are heard, they are quoted, many articles, many interviews.

Serious question: Would you characterize any of those women as advocates for women?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Serious question: Would you characterize any of those women as advocates for women?"

i think all women who have something to say about leadership and law and policy pertaining to women would consider themselves advocates for women, and it would be imperious and degrading for me to tell them they're not. i don't care which party.

gloria steinem, contemporaneous with clinton's presidency, did not give him a pass. i like to think women back then would have been more outspoken about clinton's behavior if they were confident his behavior would not be used as a lever to try to block women's rights initiatives.

i also think that times have changed. i think bill cosby has become a touchstone moment. we've moved over the last 20 years to a point where, by the time the 5th or 8th woman comes forward there's probably there there.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It's weird, even when slowman and I fundamentally agree on something he goes off the rails into some point that makes me think he's not all ok in the brain. I'm really starting to think he has some mental issues. It's a little concerning.

No sane person can seriously equate the treatment (by feminist groups) of Trump to that of Clinton. And no sane person can miss the hypocrisy in it.

There is a very clear double standard (for "women's group) when it comes to sexual transgressions and it is based entirely on the political party of the transgressors.

I mean, just look at Joe Fucking Biden and his utter creepiness around little girls. Barely a peep from anyone. If I had a daughter I'd never let her near joe Biden.

Go on YouTube and search "creepy joe Biden" if you're not aware of what I'm talking about.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"even when slowman and I fundamentally agree on something he goes off the rails"

why don't you tell me in advance what my answer to your question is supposed to be, when you give me the question? then i can just give you back the answer you want!

"I'm really starting to think he has some mental issues."

if you guys are going to continue to trot this out i think you should bring back LOL as well.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

LOL.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

You are right. You are much better suited using your N=1 to justify talking about whether adults should be having sex with 13 year olds. What the fuck is wrong with you?

I don't know what N=1 example you're referring to but I'm if the mindset that no subject is off limits for discussion. So again, if you don't want to discuss the subject of this thread then feel free to excuse yourself and please stay out of the way of those who do want to discuss it.

But if you do want to have this discussion I like for you to point out where you think I said it's ok for adults to have sex with 13 year olds.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I know right.

---

---

"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

After working in a middle school for almost a decade with five years of coaching MS track and XC after that, I disagree that it is a perfectly good discussion to have.

x 2

And there just doesn't seem like there is enough substance there to bother with the bullshit. His schtick is just seeing how far he can push the trolling and then mock the people who take offense.

I agree. I thought he would be as many describe him as bright and creative. I find he simply says things to get people upset and then hides behind the First Amendment. After a few minutes I thought his act was already getting old.

Your positive experience having sex with an older woman at a young age is your N=1. Everything you have said in here (and other threads on this topic) point to willingness to have a discussion on whether you think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relationship with an underage, postpubescent child. These days that could be a 10 or 11 year old. Again, WTF is wrong with you?

See, there you go again. My only iron lad statement on the matter is that attraction to postpubescent people is not pedophilia.

My other point is that there are numerous examples of people over 18 who have had relations with people unde 18 where no harm was done.

From that you try to imply that I think it's ok for adults to have sex with 10 year olds. Nice try.

You protest a little too hard here.

Maybe you shouldn't be around kids.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Shocked it took this long for that to come out. You are nothing but a clown.

Please discuss things iv actually said that you take issue with or go away.

You mad the implication that I condone sex with 10 year olds. You can either back up that implication or you can go away. Nothing I said here even mentioned 10-11 year olds. That came from your mind, not mine.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Don't leave it up for debate then. Your iron clad statement insinuates it would be ok. Your statement that people over the age of 18 have had sex with people under the age of 18 and turned out OK insinuates that. That didn't come from my mind. That came from another one of your purposely vague statements so that when called out, you think you get a "gotcha" moment. If I was you, I'd quit jumping into these threads based on your sick post a few weeks ago. It's you that shouldn't be around kids.

"Isn't always bad" does not equal "always ok".

"Under 18" does not mean 10.

And what was it about my dead cat post that had anything to do with children?

What's interesting here is that I haven't even expressed my opinion on adults who have relations with much younger people yet you seem to think you know what my opinion is.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I only know of two Milo's of any importance



Milo Minderbinder





Milo Aukerman


Carry on

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I have to say that at this point, I do feel sorry for him. Trying to normalize pedophilia probably comes from him still grappling with his own abuse. That is very sad, but a lot of abuse victims cope this way. Unfortunately that way of coping... the "I'm ok, I'm ok, it was ok, it was no big deal"... the minimalization and normalization of the experience is what perpetuates the abuse. Kids who were abused are often abusers because they try so hard, in their own minds, to make it OK. I think that is what is going on here, and that is really tragic.

He wasn't trying to nornmalize pedophila. In fact he stated explicitly that he very much opposed to and sickened by pedophilia.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Thoughts?....

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Seems like to me a big difference between Trump and Clinton is that with the latter there's plausible deniability not so much with the former.

Are you saying that Clinton did not use his power as president to receive head from a MUCH YOUNGER (20 year old, same age as girl in my cat incident, btw), for which there was an admission of "no reciprocity?

Do you even know what "no reciprocity" means?

It means that, on numerous occasions, Monica lewinsky (at 20 and 21 years old) sucked off her boss, the POTUS, and he didn't even have the common decency to pleasure her in any way.

Is there any such credible story of Trump doing something like that?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Care to comment on Biden's behavior in that video.

If I had a daughter, either pre or post-pubescent I wouldn't let Biden anywhere near her.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Did he run over a cat?

Not that I'm aware of. What would that have to do with anything?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"He wasn't trying to nornmalize pedophila. In fact he stated explicitly that he very much opposed to and sickened by pedophilia."

perhaps we need a new term. i really don't know what to call it when a 25 or 30 year old person has sex with a 13 year old. if you want to say that's not pedophilia, okay. but it's something. and he absolutely was trying to normalize whatever that something is.

when i look for definitions of pedophilia i see both sexual attraction to "children" and "pre-pubescent children". i'm happy to defer to your definition. just, what technical term should we use for the sex between a 30 year old and a 13 or 14 year old, that excludes other uses of the term? (you can't simply say intergenerational sex, because that could mean a 60 year old and a 35 year old.)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Pederasty is the term you're looking for, I believe.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That's pretty damn creepy. He crossed the line in terms of what is appropriate. The way he grabbed the girls by the arms and pulled them next to him and then put his face against theirs was pretty disturbing. I cannot think of anything to justify those actions.

"statutory rape" works.

"Adult/minor relations"

"Creepy"

Pulling a "Polanski"

There are terms used to describe the underage (yet post-pubescent) participants - "Lolita" for a female and the term "twink" is used to describe a younger male (or male with features typically found in younger aged males).

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

At one point he appears to pinch a girl's nipple.

How does he get away with it? Oops, never mind. I know the answer.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

"Pederasty is the term you're looking for, I believe."

that's good. that's close. but that's simply male-male, is it not? and yes, that is exactly what milo was normalizing in the interview. but there ought to be a term for that behavior regardless of gender, and that includes cross-gender. that way we wouldn't get hung up unnamed bad behavior that is not pedophilia.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

[biden fake facts]

websites that cater to those not smart enough to hang with duck dynasty should be off your media list. you're too smart for that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

But as you note, Milo was pretty specifically talking about pederasty.

I'm not sure how valid the distinction between hebephilia and ephebophilia is. Or how much overlap there is between hebephilia and pedophilia. Arguably classifying something as ephebophilia is a function of arbitrary laws about age.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

hebephilia. that's it. i've never heard of it. now i'll know it if i ever get invited to appear on wait, wait, don't tell me.

but at least now i know the name for it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So I should stay off YouTube and not watch videos of Biden being a total fucking creep to little girls?

You don't find what is clearly shown in the video I posted to be problematic in any way?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Except it probably doesn't cover the age range Milo was talking about, and almost certainly doesn't describe the type of relationship he was talking about. Not sure why we need to be learning new words when pederasty is the issue, but whatever.

Sounds like hebephilia is an attraction to people who are in the process of sexual maturity, while ephebophilia is an attraction to people who are young but have attained sexual maturity, more or less?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

[videos of Biden...]

first, yes. you're right. you ought to stay off youtube. second, you're watching somebody's sick construction of something he wishes were the case and, yes, there are more profitable ways to spend your time.

"You don't find what is clearly shown in the video"

i'm also informed of the very clear, undeniable evidence about the bilderbergs, the rosicrucians, the freemasons, and the 66 families, and that i'm a fool because i don't accept the truth of it staring me in the face.

when you type "conspiracy" into the google text box, and it auto-populates with the most requested searches, second down from the top is "right wing conspiracy sites". stay off of those.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yet if that was Trump, I'm pretty sure you would be very, very vocal about what was going on. I find it odd that you're avoiding addressing Biden's behavior in that video.

To be honest, it appears to be worse than the photo of Trump's hand on his daughter's thigh. And I thought that was inappropriate.

That's pretty damn creepy. He crossed the line in terms of what is appropriate. The way he grabbed the girls by the arms and pulled them next to him and then put his face against theirs was pretty disturbing. I cannot think of anything to justify those actions.

x 2. I've never seen that before but it is more than creepy.

"if that was Trump, I'm pretty sure you would be very, very vocal about what was going on."

well, it has been trump. and i have not been vocal about what was going on. most of my criticisms of trump have been focused on things other than the speculative, unprovable, lurid accusations about the attention he pays to his daughter.

politicians have enough of a tough time without having to endure accusations of creepy behavior by even creepier accusers.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Do you think the touching that Biden does in the video (and countless other videos of him doing this) of the very young girls (and you can watch an unedited hour long CSPAN video of him swearing in new senators where he clearly only touches young girls in this manner) is appropriate or not?

Yes or no, do you think the way Biden touches young girls is appropriate?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Where is there video of Trump touching little girls? Please post a link.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Bullshit! So, the problem is not in Biden's behavior, but in the behavior of those who think it is creepy? Do you know how disturbing that is?

I be interested to hear which accusers he's calling "creepier". You know, name names.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Thanks. Like I said I want following this in detail. Makes sense to me.

---

Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

I have heard him spout out a lot about free speech and he is very effective at trolling the dumber segments of the left.

Having said that he is boring to listen to. His opinions are childish and boorish, but banning him from CPAC was idiotic. Wait, booking him at CPAC was idiotic. The right has used him as a poster child for the left's censorship ideology and wanted to use him as a cudgel to beat the Berkeley rioter-morons with. Now, because he said something they don't like, he is banned from speaking at their event. Pot, meet kettle.

Just chalk it up to one more hypocritical move by the right.

---

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I agree that being attracted to a minor doesn't make you a pedophile. The human brain isn't fully developed until about 25 which is why we have laws that treat younger people differently than adults. We have laws restricting certain professions from having sex with people, like teachers, because they are in a position of power and influence. When someone who's 30 or 40 and is having sex with a minor it feels very predatory. Without the same mental development and life experiences it seems like the adult in the "relationship" is in for sex and adoration.

It reminds me of something Oscar Wilde wrote. Near the end of this life he asked his friend and lover Robby Ross “In loving one of those boys, did you ever love anyone of them for themselves?” And he pauses and says, “No, I never did.” And Wilde says, “Neither did I.”

This is a lot like your threshold for evil, amazingly low when you're arguing in a thread. I don't think most people would consider that misogynistic. Selfish maybe, but not misogynistic.

It's indicative of misogynistic behavior. Add it together with all the other stories, evidence, etc. that's out there....

If it walks like a duck....

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Is that where the term "Heebie Jeebies" comes from?

Just wondering

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Yeah I'm not arguing Clinton isn't a piece of shit (or from what I've read more like a rascal who likes to see what he can get away with), I'm just saying if that's all you got there's still plausible deniability.

I like this take on the whole deal.


http://www.esquire.com/.../a53306/who-is-milo/

FORGETTING MILO
I DIDN'T KNOW HIS NAME LAST YEAR. I WON'T REMEMBER IT NEXT YEAR.

...

So you can tell me he's achieved marginal success. You can tell me he's developed a shtick. You can tell me he's found an audience (and you can probably also tell me every member of that audience owns a Harambe T-shirt). What you cannot do is convince me he's interesting.


...
He never did get around to saying anything we haven't heard before. Because he can't.
So we are, at least for the moment, finished with him. When and if he comes trolling back, remember this: Getting angry at Milo is like getting angry at the mannequin challenge. You can start a boycott, you can make a sign to hold at a protest, or you can wait 10 days. The brand is nothing but provocation, and provocation for its own sake is unsustainable.
Our attention is a finite resource, and we don't have to pay it out to everyone who shows up at our door looking for it.
Milo ended today's press conference by reasserting his value as a cultural figure and assuring us that "America will judge [him] accordingly." Exactly. We always do. He has spent the last year straining for the one-name cultural ubiquity of a Beyoncé or a Cher, and while I'm annoyed he hung around long enough for me to have to develop an opinion on him, I am comforted by the fact that in one year I won't remember even that single name.
</html

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

FORGETTING MILO
I DIDN'T KNOW HIS NAME LAST YEAR. I WON'T REMEMBER IT NEXT YEAR.

My sister's dog is MILO and he doesn't have a last name either but unlike that loud mouth, I'll remember her MILO next month.