It's tough.

Can't count Phelps out, but his last 25 hasn't been looking good at Trials or in Rio. Hard to bet against the guy.

Sentimental favourite is Seto.

Le Clos is gonna be tough.

and where the hell did Kenderesi come from. He wasn't on anyone's radar. Through heats and semi's he looks the best, but I think Seto has more in the tank, so does Le Clos (won't be tired) and Phelps has a way of stepping up.

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Phelps.....cause.......'Murica!

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Watching the semis last night it seemed like Phelps made his statement dominating the first 150 meters and then packed it in a bit the last 50.

Le Clos looked like he was just doing enough to advance having raced a hard final earlier in the night. He was also very clearly trying to get in to Phelps' head. I don't personally know Phelps but the look on his face tells me "Don't poke the bear."

My prediction is that Phelps buries Le Clos tonight to take gold.

Phelps
Ceh
Le Clos

Le Clos sets a world record if he stops looking around in the middle of the race ;-)

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Le Clos poked the tiger with all his bs in the ready room yesterday. Phelps did what he needed last night, lookout tonight. Phelps/Cseh/LeClos

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Also very possible, I didn't even know people did that while racing the fly.

I was joking, of course.... Le Clos will never stop looking around in the middle of his race..

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I am pretty sure he increases his frontal area while turning his head sideways so he should also probably run a disc and he would do much better....wait......wrong sport. Are we still under the swimming-talk ban?

Same training squad as Cseh....

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___________________________________________
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

X2 -

Phelps
I think he was motivated for the 200 fly coming after the 2012 loss. Now after last night I think he wants to lay a smack down.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

The way Phelps swam in the 4x100 and also the way LeClos bolted out in the 200m free, I am not better against anyway, but in all the hype in between those two, can one of the Hungarians squeek in for the silver and relegate one of those guys to bronze? This is going to be a great final tonite. I am biased and have a soft spot towards South African athletes. Real bummer than LeClos could not put Sun Yang away in the 200 free finals.

Everyone seems to think Phelps has been "tired" on the last 50. I think he's just done what he had to do and has been purposely taking it easy. He knows this is his last rodeo. You can be damn sure he's going to give it everything tonight.

i think he's too competitive to "pack it in" intentionally when he's leading with <50m to go, semifinal or not. i think he was getting tired. however, i do think that if gold had been on the line, he might have found a bit more in the tank.

that said...while i'd love for him to win, i don't think it's gonna happen this time.

1. cseh
2. phelps
3. le clos

Didn't look like he eased up. He was tired. It looked the same at trials

However, today is a different day. I wouldn't bet against him, but for some reason I just like Le Clos. Le Clos isn't supposed to be a great freestyler, but he came away with a silver, even racing it "wrong".

I dunno who wins, but my prediction is 1st to 4th are separated by under 1 second..

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He's not packing it in, he's trying not burn too many matches for lack of a better term. He also shut it down in London in prelims at times

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

So one data point could be a comparison of the times swam at last years WC in Russia (MP was serving a 6 month ban for the DUI and therefore did not attend... which was kind of BS... but I digress) and his times at the US Nats in San Antonio held at roughly the same time (August) where he had over half a second on Cseh's winning time. Given how focused his preparation has been since and what we saw in the relay.. so long as he and Bowman have nailed his taper, which we would hope they have after all these years of doing this... I am going to back MP for the gold tonight, followed by Cseh (S) and Le Clos (B) to round out podium.

i knew what was meant, regardless of the term used. i just disagreed. agree to disagree, and i hope i'm wrong :)

I'm rooting for the clean one. Which one is that?

Well the "clean" one raced for China in the 200 free and got gold last night....fortunately he is not in this race. <Pink font>

They're all clean. Can't help but be clean if you're in the pool all day...

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who cares. It is guaranteed to be epic unless the announcers get in the way.

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Such a Bad Runner

I hope you're right but I am skeptical. Especially when you retire for 2 years and then unretire. Something tells me they don't test you after you retire.

I love that Cseh says "screw swim caps". It's hard to see anything else going on in the race when you are distracted by this shiny globe floating along the top of the water.

I think Le Clos' theatrics last night were aimed at trying to get Phelps to swim harder than he planned. If so, it actually worked for 150m until Phelps shut it down a bit. Phelps did put in his best time of the year which he did not have to do last night. Or, maybe Le Clos is just crazy. But, marginal gains by getting your competition just a bit more tired than they wanted to be after the prelims is not a bad plan.

I really really doubt that there was any planning involved in any of his antics.

...and meanwhile we also have Kenderesi who put in a faster time than Phelps' fastest time of the year. How much faster can that kid go tonite? Could we see a Hungarian + Japanese sweep? Is that even in the realm of possibility?

No, Le clos doesn't strike me as a 'planner'

I missed what he did though???

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He shadow boxed right in front of Phelp's face.

We'd have to bring Mohammad Ali back into this life to give LeClos some proper training on how this is done. Heck Ali could get under the skin of Presidents with his verbal jabs, forget about other boxers. And then you have Bolt who can take it to another level completely and not even piss anyone off....just make them panic that his hamstring is ready to roll:

He shadow boxed right in front of Phelp's face. //

And how about that face. Do you all think that those dog like snarls were on purpose, or were then like a dog and just a non thought out reaction? It was kind of creepy looking at his mouth and lips, thought he could leap out and rip his throat out at any second..

That actually sounds funny! I haven't seen it though, maybe it wasn't, but it sounds like it was. I would've laughed. But that's just me.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BemrQOzMVWo

I found the interaction between the two before the race more entertaining than the semi-final. Between that and Lilly Kings comments on dopers the out of the pool action has been interesting.

I couldn't believe how many time Le Clos looked over during the middle of the race. I'd like to see him beat Phelps in the finals, but my guess would be they'll end up fighting for silver.

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Matt

The betting sites have this order:

Phelps
Czeh
Kenderesi
Le Clos
Seto

Seto is a much longer shot than Le Clos. Really it's between those top 4.
I would love to see Kenderesi, Czeh, or Seto win. If it's between Le Clos and Phelps I'm pulling for Phelps.

I agree that Phelp's 200 fly hasn't looked anywhere near his fly from last year in San Antonio.
Phelps might have too much muscle for a 200 fly now. (Just a theory or thought)
Hard to count him out. He's so damn tough, he might win it anyway.

Game on!!!

#20...................That was awesome.

wrong i was. and happy to admit it!

No matter what anyone may think of him, the guy is amazing.

Lived up to the hype!

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Let food be thy medicine...

Yep - and his 2 best events are yet to come, add in another relay. Wow, just wow.

Where are the Olympics in 2020? Wonder if his mom wants to go there?

Tokyo I think? I say he trains for the 10k open water swim. He's got four years to prep for it.

Yup, Tokyo

Good race. I was really happy to see a couple of relative unknowns earn medals.

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Great race !
I can see why at his age you could think that. A lot of the top swimmers will shut it down at the end of a prelim heat when they know they're where they need to be.

Now bring on the 4 X 200.....

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I keep looking at the replay and can't figure out how Kendersi got 3rd. It looked like he touched before Sakai.

You gotta hand it to Phelps. I guy just knows what he needs to do to win....I came "close" on asking "what is the chance of Hungarian+Japanese podium. Phelps was awesome. I think LeClos's 200m free + fly semis took a lot out of him. He "looked" toast. LeClos hopefully learned the less of not poking the bear!

Is it just me, or was anyone else turned off by Phelps antics after the race?

I'm tired of the drama at the games. I just wanna see the swimming.

So far, Ledecky, Hosszu and Peaty have had the most dominant performances, and they've looked like they're just happy to win. No ego.

Women's 200 free was the race of the Games though. Lived up to the hype.

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What antics? Enjoying the adulation of the crowd?
I think he should have done this to Le Clos:


The only antic I did not enjoy was his cracking up hysterically and pointing during the National Anthem at the award ceremony.

I wasn't. It's ok to bask in glory from time to time.

I'm just old-school, I guess....

I like the way Peaty et al handled it. Just a big-ass smile and a fist pump, or something along those lines.

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I think you have to give the Bear a pass after the Bear was poked and he emerges as Papa Bear. He just needed to declare the status visually after his time confirmed he was the Papa Bear! My dad who knows nothing about swimming though and saw the number 1 gesture was immediately turned off saying something like, "I thought this guy wins 20 something gold medals, I think the world already knows he is number 1, why does he need to do this. No class". That was his immediate reaction, and there are likely a billion non swimmers (not Americans but from other countries) watching getting the same impression.

I don't need to give him a pass. I watched the video, leClos didn't do anything wrong that I could see. He was just getting himself ready, my guess is he was nervous after the 200 free.

LeClos made no secret about wanting to beat Phelps again, but so what?

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Its' called smart racing in an international meet. He's 31. He can't recover like he's 23 or 27 years old. His training coming in probably reflects that, and it's why the 400IM wasn't a goal, nor is trying to set records.

If he buries himself in the 200 fly needlessly, he can't anchor the 4x200 as effectively for team USA and could miss out on another gold... and he still has one more event.

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I think his kid did something that took him totally off-guard, and he just couldn't recover

Did anyone else notice the Baltimore "O!" during the anthem?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I thought the same thing.

Hosszu is probably more relieved that she's not to get screamed at and told to drown herself by her husband than anything else

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I wonder if I can get my wife to do that to me at my next IM....do you think that will elevate me to a poidum and KQ? Or will she just give up knowing I have no hope and save her energy and go to the spa?

True.

He's .... odd..... to put it mildly.

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In an interview I read earlier this morning he said he was reacting to the Baltimore "O" when he was laughing. Apparently it was a long time buddy of his that did it.

I'm not sure he has much in terms of slowtwitch capacity, or the desire to swim that long continuously. Hell, he might be like Janet Evans and hates open water. That's his challenge now. His top end, VO2 is slowly diminishing with age mostly from inability to recover as fast and absorb as much training load. He's getting it done with stroke mechanics, turns, starts and good pacing and whatever training he can absorb.

Might he make one last comeback just to qualify for #6 and maybe be fast enough for a relay? Maybe grab one last medal in the 200Fly? and 4x100 relay? But he won;t be dominant, but medals in 6 Olympics a major Olympic sport, would really be something nobody may ever match again in our lifetimes.

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What is a Baltimore "O"?

I think it is really cool what he is doing. Do I want to see him back in Tokyo....well only if he has a sold chance at a gold medal in something. As Springsteen said, the hard part is to know when to put the guitar down and stop going back on stage. If you can go out on top like he is now, that's the most awesome exit from the stage. His priorities could change with family life too.

I think it was more relief. Anyone who has followed him knows this was the race he REALLY wanted. The extra antics just added to the desire. As you were an exceptionally high level swimmer, did you ever have someone smack talk you? Sweet revenge is great, and I think Michael just felt so much relief and reward.

Obviously he was quite touched by this win. If you watched the award ceremony, he was tearing up early in the ceremony, and as it was 20+ golds he's been through, why tear up on this one. That gives a taste of how much this one meant. As to the laughing, he said some buddies came down from Baltimore, where he grew up and chanted an old thing they used to do for the Orioles. It took him back and broke the moment. I think you're seeing a guy that knows it's his last go-round and he's simply sucking every moment for all it has. He's the best that ever jumped in the pool, and that's saying a LOT. If you listen to Rowdy, he understands too.

Normally I'd agree 100% with you on this. But at this point with his career I found myself thinking you earned it.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Baltimore Orioles fans shout out "ooohs!" during the singing of the anthem at the beginning of the line: "Oh, say does that star spangled banner..."

I'm not a fan of it in general, but at Camden Yards for an Oriole game, it is a "local flavor" kind of thing I guess. I do find it out of place at other venues but it still happens frequently at events (pro and college football) within driving distance of Baltimore.

I was never an exceptionally high level swimmer, but yeah, there was smack talk on deck. Never took it seriously, it was just fun.

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Thank you very much for this explanation. I had never heard of it.

My 14-yr old daughter noted that he seemed awfully "cocky" afterward and shouldn't he be above that by now?

Interesting, my 12 year old daughter made the same observation a few days ago, after an interview on TV.

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But let's be honest, Kitajima was the greatest breaststroker of all time (maybe still has that title) and Americans flipped out when he cheered the way Phelps did.

I was watching with my 13 year old who's also a swimmer. His initial reaction was to be turned off by it but after maybe 3 seconds he said some like"

"Good for him. He's literally the most decorated Olympian in history. If anyone deserves to do something like that, he does."

I don't remember that but that is definitely a fair point to make. Although we are comparing the greatest breaststroker to the greatest swimmer of all time. IDK and I don't want to defend it too much. I just found myself thinking MEH.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Worth noting that dude swam a 5000 in practice in 47 minutes and kicked 50 x 100's in LCM on 1:20. But I agree that a 10k OWS wouldn't be the right event for him.

My guess is...he will be back. He seems like a lifer. While he did just fine, he shouldn't have been on the 800 free relay last night. He really enjoys the spotlight. He is one of the top 5 or so 100 freestylers in the world right now and he hasn't trained for it. So I'd love for him to do that event.

I think if the Olympics were held in December he wouldn't win the 200 fly. It doesn't diminish anything but objectively he got a little lucky last night. Lots of guys have gone under 1:53 in the past 4 years...just not last night

Also, if we are going to get rid of some of the antics can we stop being subject to Hosszu's husband. The yelling and chest pounding is brutal. Someone should grab that little pony tail and make him sit down.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Amen, brother....

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Is that baby tail a man bun? Or is that called something else?

It's a man bun, and every bit as hideous as they've ever been, even when they were fashionable...

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Phelps knows how to win. That's what separates him from the rest.

my wife and I were laughing so hard, we disturbed our dog, who came over to check on me..

I'm with you on that. We were talking about his post race antics at work this morning. I'm a big fan of his but that was not classy at all.

In Modern Olympics History, yes. In ALL-Time, he literally tied a dude who's literally been dead for more than 2,000 years

http://www.sbnation.com/...d-leonidas-of-rhodes

Next gold medal, he's on top all by himself

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Literally

I'm surprised Leonidas had time to train. I thought he was pretty busy at Thermopylae with the Persians.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

He's the best Olympian athlete of all times. He can celebrate his victory however he wants, IMO.

Good for Leonidas but last I checked 25 total Olympic medals (however broken down) is more than 12.

Not at all. That was gold #20 for him. Waving your finger at a dope that was trying to intimidate you and didn't even medal it kind of funny - Its the King of the pool putting a punk in his place.

Ledecky should be happy - she's 19 and starting her career I believe. If she gets to 20 golds, I'm sure her reactions will be different.

Want to see something very unsportsmanlike. Go watch the men's fencing final from Sunday The Italian guy who won the medal tossed off his helmet twice (turned out the 1'st time was premature) and then ran around the arena. WAY over the top.

Aren't they always?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Good read here as why he was so stoked for that one....

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/...-that-mattered-most/

Just to be clear, Le Clos is not any punk. He's the punk that beat Phelps in London doing what Phelps did to Cavic in Beijing. Phelps was just claiming his event back. Kind of like Hinault getting his TdF title back after Fignon kinds of stole it for a few years or Brady getting back the Superbowl after Eli Manning steals his perfect season and the superbowl from under his nose. These champions like to rise back from being one upped momentarily!

No. He is. You don't act like that to the greatest. Forget about the 200 fly. Phelps has 20 plus Olympic medals. Lecois is not even close.

And Brady's perfect season is full of cheating,

And what color medal did leclois get after acting up this year?

Why does that matter?

Be gracious in defeat, and even more gracious in victory.

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Don't be an a$$ before the meet if you can't back it up. Shouldn't be an a$$ either way, but definitely not if you can't back it up.

But what does le clos have to do with how phelps conducts himself?

Besides, most of the stuff I was looking at had nothing to do with chad, and came across as him wanting the crowd to adore him. There are ways to do call out chad without looking like a dick.

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I agree.

I do have a few things to say to defend Phelps, but not his behavior. It struck me that Phelps was so in the moment trying to win that race that he really had no idea what he was going to do when he won. Literally, I bet the dude never thought of it. What I saw was just his anger at the Le Clos situation still manifesting itself and Phelps just let it out as he felt he finally could -- now that he had won. He was really using Le Clos as his sole motivation for that 200 fly, and it had such a dark side to it that it just came out.

I agree, I don't think it was planned either, much like I don't think le clos' antics were planned. But while le clos comes across as a bit of a lost puppy, phelps just looked mean.

Like I said at the start, maybe that's just me.

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Hang on here. Phelps may have a gazillion medals, but LeClos was he defending 200m fly Olympic champion and more recently the 200m fly short course world record holder and the 100m fly short course world record holder. Sure Phelps holds both 100m and 200m long course world records but back from 2009. I don't think you realize that at the most recent FINA world's Le Clos was 100m fly world champion and 200m fly silver medalist (Ceh won that, and finished 7th yesterday).

I don't mind the games between competitors whether you back it up or not....sprinters in track, boxers, Macca vs Stadler....its part of sport and championship egos. It's all good stuff

I know some people who are not really sports fans and just tuned into the Olympics found Phelps' gesture was not required given his stature. But those would be rest of the world people. Phelps is reaching out to the US audience for whom this is just fine. It's no different than the silly chest thumping by our Canadian hockey players. I say you cut him some slack...imagine the pressure and the stress relief putting together the win. These guys are all human

It may be you. I'm all in on the Phelps fan wagon. It's a privilege to witness such great athleticism.

I'm not sure "lots of guys" is the proper descrip. Only 2 other guys have gone under 1:53 in the last 4 yrs: Cseh and Le Clos.

All Time Top Performances - 200 Fly
1:51.51 Phelps 07/29/09
1:52.03 Phelps 08/13/08
1:52.09 Phelps 03/28/07
1:52.20 Phelps 07/02/08
1:52.70 Cseh 08/13/08
1:52.76 Phelps 07/08/09
1:52.91 Cseh 05/09/16
1:52.94 Phelps 08/07/15
1:52.96 le Clos 07/28/12
1:52.97 Matsuda 08/13/08

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I have to disagree with you, as I feel Le Clos was definitely planned. He was trying to get into Phelps head and show some confidence. Stupid move. As far as Phelps looking mean, the best all ARE mean. In our circle, I've seen the "assassin" in sweet Michelle Jones, PNF, Crowie, Macca, Stadler, Frodo, Kienle.....and on and on. There are very few athletes who do not have that killer instinct.

I'm talking about phelps post-race, not pre race game face stuff.

Before the race, dance, shadowbox, stare, whatever you need to do. Sacrifice a chicken if you have to.

But all that shit is done once you touch the wall at the finish.

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(Quote) "My guess is...he (Phelps) will be back. He seems like a lifer. While he did just fine, he shouldn't have been on the 800 free relay last night. He really enjoys the spotlight. He is one of the top 5 or so 100 freestylers in the world right now and he hasn't trained for it. So I'd love for him to do that event." (Quote)

Phelps went about a half sec faster in the final than Conger did in the prelims, so the coaches prob made the right call. Besides, Conger still gets the gold medal and, if anyone asks, he can just say he was replaced by Phelps, whom virtually everyone on the planet has heard of, excepting perhaps some hunter-gatherers in the Amazon or on an island in the Pacific. :)

From Swimswam:

GOLD: United States – 7:00.66

Conor Dwyer – 1:45.23
Townley Hass – 1:44.14
Ryan Lochte – 1:46.03
Michael Phelps – 1:45.26

An easy win (predictably) for Team USA–it helps when you have three of the five fastest splits in the event. The front half of the relay was as good as you could ask for; Conor Dwyer was right on his personal best, and Townley Haas turned in the fastest split in the entire field (an incredible 1:44.14). By the time Haas was done, the lead was stretched to two full seconds, with two of the world’s greatest swimmers about to hit the water.

There were some major grumblings around the absence of Jack Conger in the final; Michael Phelps was added to the final relay, despite not swimming the 200 freestyle at Olympic Trials. In addition, Conger actually out-split Ryan Lochte in prelims, but Lochte played it very safe on the start and didn’t have any competition as the preliminary anchor leg. After his 47.12 split in the 4×100 freestyle relay, there’s no question Michael Phelps belonged on this relay, and he backed it up. Even after the 200 fly final, Phelps split a half-second faster than Conger or Ryan Lochte did in prelims. However, even without the hindsight of tonight’s splits, there’s arguments that Conger should have gotten the nod over Lochte, who was just a 1:46.03.


Fastest splits:

1. 1:44.14 – Townley Haas – USA
2. 1:44.85 – James Guy – Great Britain
3. 1:45.05 – Duncan Scott – Great Britain
4. 1:45.23 – Conor Dwyer – USA
5. 1:45.26 – Michael Phelps – USA
6. 1:45.34 – Kosuke Hagino – Japan
7. 1:45.37 – Mack Horton – Australia
8. 1:45.63 – David McKeon – Australia
9. 1:45.67 – Aleksandr Krasnykh – Russia

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

OK 100 fly semis today and finals tomorrow. What is Phelps going to do to Le Clos....is Le Clos actually going to look down the pool this time instead of across the pool?

Nope.

He always looks around. Doesn't matter if phelps is in the pool or not, it's what he does. Terrible habit, and it costs him time.

Edit -darkhorse pick, joe schooling for gold.

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Can Santo squeeze into the finals for the 100 fly in his semi tonite. He has the 50 free finals 1 hour before. What's the recovery like from the 50 free?

Also Phelps is going up against Lochte for the 200 IM finals and then 30 minutes later has the 100m Fly semis. These guys are machines. Tough schedule!

The 50 free and 100 fly are both semifinals tonight.

Should be able to recover fine. 100 free was his main shot at a medal, these are all bonus swims for fun.

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Agreed. What Phelps did was pretty restrained. I imagine most of the young'uns on Slowtwitch would retreat to their safe places if they ever witnessed some post-boxing "antics" from Muhammad Ali.

Pretty sure Le Clos just patted Phelps on the back when he walked by him being interviewed post 100 fly prelim.

I guess they made up

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

It looks like Phelps just did what he needed to do for advancing after taking his 4th gold in 4 Games in a row in the 200IM. I am looking forward to tomorrow's drag race. This guy Joseph Schooling racing for Singapore was awesome. Do you guys think he can give a rested Phelps a run tomorrow? Le Clos looked like he started a bit slow today.

Schooling is the real deal, he's got speed and held n pretty well. (Good 200 fly as well as 100, but elected to scratch the 2fly for the 100 free)

He's got a shot to pull a leclos on phelps. It'll be close.

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Schooling's fly kick looks massive.

Nope. But hopefully he'll get to try again in 2020 :)

Phelps was much more restrained after the 200IM win. I really wouldn't be surprised if either Bob B or Debbie P talked to him about it...

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Or he read your post, felt bad and didn't want to upset you again.

That's the most plausible explanation.

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Or, he was more restrained after winning the 200 IM because it was never really in doubt, his main rival (Lochte) is a friend and teammate who wasn't showing his ass in the ready room, and the others who medaled weren't acting like turds. Le CLos on the other hand, needed to be put in his place and reminded of who the GOAT is.

By the way, if Phelps wins the 100 fly and wins another gold on the medley relay, then he will personally have more golds than the entire country of South Africa has earned in all Olympics combined. So when South African Le Clos starts talking smack...

Excuse me, but can you please not throw all of South Africa under the bus on this one. Phelps has more medals in this games than the majority of countries already, so South Africa is in good company. At the rate we are going Phelps + Ledecky will have more gold medals in the pool than all of Germany across sports. And in fairness LeClos was a sportstman in defeat.

One more thing.....South Africa would have a lot more medals all time. Sometimes athletes are born in the wrong time in the wrong country. Lots of really great South Africans who were not racists had no opportunity to race internationally for decades. Close to home my 2 best examples are Simon Lessing and Paula Newby Fraser. The former had to race for Great Britain and the latter for Zimbabwe....not Olympics sports but they are great examples of super athletes who also don't have a sliver of racism in them who were prisoners in their own land for a long time. PNF basically came out of Durban was racing for Zimbabwe and lit the world on fire at Kona 89. So please let's not do the chest pounding on how much South Africa sucks compared to Phelps. The all time Kona "wins" goes to a girl who grew up doing triathlon in Durban. Most ITU World Championships...also a guy from Durban.

Anyway, onto tonite's final. Jason in Halifax says schooling is the real deal and could challenge Phelps. The way Phelps swam is 100m leg in the relay, I'd be surprised if anyone can match that type of a closing effort. I think he did just enough yesterday to qualify. Someone tell leClos to keep his head and boy straight tonite!

Is this alledged Le Clos asshattery to do with him doing his little shadowboxing routine or is there more to it. He's a bit eccentric but he wasn't even directly facing Phelps when he was doing it from what you can see in the little twittervid.

The way Phelps swam the 200IM... I think he should consider taking a year off, 2 years light, and make a comeback just for that event and maybe a relay if he can earn the spot. Hell, he won by nearly 2 seconds!

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Yes, watching it live he was messing with Phelps in the ready room Or so it seemed. On deck he kept starring at Phelps. In the pool he got smacked down.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

There's a little more to it, a minor twitter spat last year. As best I can recall it went something like this....

Phelps called out the butterfliers saying that no-one had swum a fast time since he retired.

LeClos swam a fast time at Worlds, and said that Phelps could be quiet now.

Phelps then swam slightly faster at US Nats (apparently he used LeClos' comment as motivation)

Le Clos said that it is different swimming fast at Nationals with not that much competition, and swimming fast when you have another fast guy (i.e. Le Clos) breathing down your neck. Le Clos was right, look at how the Aussies have failed to perform in Rio.

Le Clos did his dancing / shadowboxing routine. Odd , but so what?.

Through it all, he's maintained that Phelps is his hero.

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Aye I'm aware of some of the history between Le Clos and Phelps and of course it's nice to just shut someone like that up in the pool. Just seemed a bit blown out of proportion to me, American media probably to blame for that.

Phelps was great last night, the way he dragged himself out of the pool after the 200IM i was like yikes. Seemed rather dead. He also seemed to take his time during the medal ceremony! Can't blame him ofcourse. Didn't he skip some ceremonies in Beijing with the crazy gauntlet he ran? No way he was gonna skip this one obviously.

All I'm saying is, he acted like a buffoon and needed to check himself. Phelps could spot him 9 golds and STILL have more than Le Clos.
I'm all for having confidence in yourself, but he had a choice on how he was going to express that confidence...


...and he chose poorly.

Agree, but if he wins the 100 fly tonight he also needs to come back for that one.

Add in a few relays and he could get to 30. For those that say swimming has to many medals - winning gold in 5 different Olympics is pretty special.

In MY experience, it usually has something to do with some Maryland skank and liberal amounts of Old Bay

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

My point to you...feel free to beat up on Le Clos, but you have no reason to beat up on all of South Africa talking down an entire nation's medal count. It's barely a nation with a 6M person developed economy that has the resources to really compete in global sport and it really outperforms its physical size. These guys are also a global force in some non olympic sports that over a billion people compete in too. I just think it is uncool to talk down about entire nations (and yes, earlier in the thread I already said I have a soft spot for South Africa in general and its athletes in particular)

Back to the pool, Phelps totally put Le Clos in his place. Looking at Jason's history of the "conflict" perhaps the younger Le Clos wanted some respect for his time during the Phelps retirement (after beating Phelps in London), but the best way for him to get that is to shut up and out swim Phelps (as he did in London) but did not do in Rio. He has another chance today but I think Phelps will even stronger in the 100 Fly. Phelps seems bigger than he was in previous Olympics and it "looks" like he has been more in the weight room working his fast twitch for these 50ish second races. I just can't see anyone touching him today other than maybe Schooling.

My totally unsubstantiated opinion....

I think Le Clos is just a fairly insecure guy, and at some level still doesn't think that he actually belongs up on that stage. So he has to force himself there. That's also part of the reason that he looks around so much in races.

I can relate, I used to be like that too. Kinda why I like the guy and cut him some slack.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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I only brought up South Africa because Le Clos is acting like a douchebag while wearing that country's flag on his cap. He's the one choosing to act that way while representing his country.

I'm not trying to denigrate South Africa or its achievements in athletics or whatever, I'm simply pointing out facts. They are what they are.

True, IF he can bring himself to train hard enough during 2018-20. His desire and motivation are the keys. He may not have the HUNGER and the DRIVE after this Oly. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Well if his mom wants to see him race in Tokyo and since his son will be 4 he will know what's going on. That could be more than enough motivation. What a great experience and memory for a little boy to see his dad win his 5 consecutive Olympic gold medal in the 200 IM (or any event for that matter) and then win a few other races since he will be there anyway. Total medal count could easily be over 30.

If you retire in swimming how does it work to get back into competition, get your "pro card' (or equivalent) and enough time in the testing pool before you can compete again? In other words how late can Phelps delay a comeback in 2020 to get through the entire process?

I think you have to be in testing pool for 6 months before you comeback if you "retire" (I use quotes because if you officially retire you are out of testing pool). But you can't compete immediately so you have to announce plans, get in testing pool and then after 6 months you can race.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

So basically the latest you could un-retire is 6 months before the set of races that get you times that get you invites to US Olympic trials?

Dev

Basic time line likely would be apply for reinstatement in spring 2019. Let's you race winter 2019-summer 2020 to get rials cut and then Olympics in late August (if he made it).

I'd actually bet that's exactly what he does because he'll retire and then get bored, and being retired for the 2ish post Olympic years is usually the down period anyways. He'll be bored and wanting to compete so he comes back.

But what happens at that age is fatherland hits hard. At some point your performance just fails. What he'll be 35ish next Olympics?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Wow....you called it...Schooling was insane....and Phelps-leClos-Ceh all in tie was almost perfect.

welp now Phelps HAS TO go to Tokyo, to win back "his" event.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

3-way tie, I am waiting for some sort of timing scandal to emerge ;)

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That scandal came and went with Cavic vs Phelps in Beijing (pink font optional)

seriously nice to see the tie for Lazlo Ceh of all people. Maybe he did not get to beat Phelps in a major event, but he's ending his last Olympics on par with Phelps.