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Who's your favorite doper?
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Inspired by yet another Lance thread, but any athlete is okay. No, Jerry Garcia was not an athlete.

I've gotta go with Floyd. The Day of Floyd Unchained in the Tour was one of the greatest rides of all time ( so long as belief stayed suspended) and he's been a treat ever since.

Others:
Tyler Hamilton bc of the invitro twin defense.
Chris Horner bc he's still at it. Zinger!
Raphy Palmiero bc he had a silky smooth swing and did a great Bill Clinton denial.
Lance bc he was so bad his own mother asked someone, Why is my son such an asshole? And I like the guy anyway. Find him endlessly entertaining. Doped or undoped, a badass on the bike.
Denny Menchov bc he never said shit to anyone about anything, ever.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Riccardo Ricco. I loved his crazy attacks in the 2008 tour. And that every time he came back he got caught cheating.

http://www.thedeludedcyclist.wordpress.com
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Its a tie between Ivan Drago and Carl Lewis for me
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Johann Museeuw because he's my favorite rider from that era. Sven Nijs because he has managed to stay at the top from the dope to you drop era until now and not get caught.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Spicoli, hands down.
Last edited by: DJRed: Jan 31, 15 10:53
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Since you brought other sports into the mix, mine is Barry Bonds. During his prime doping years he put fear into the hearts of pitchers.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Sven Nijs because he has managed to stay at the top from the dope to you drop era until now and not get caught.

You really think he is a doper?
From a physical standpoint I think at best he would be superdomestique on the roads.
Skills are so vital in cross, I don't think doping would help as much, because at least in
my experience I feel I am limited by my ability to navigate the course, not because of my
fitness or power.

I guess logically people would have been doping in CX, but if CX was just about
fitness (as opposed to be being a niche), why wouldn't you see more of the top roadies
just jumping in to win races because they have superior physical talent?
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Spicoli, hands down.

Surfing. Nice.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Sean Kelly
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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The top guys are on par with top roadies. Stybar (top roadie) doesn't dominate races the way Nijs did in his hey-day. The women's world road race champion just won cross worlds today and there were 5 or 6 other riders with her most of the race and it came down to a sprint. Not to mention when doping was more prevalent, the one country where you could make a living at it dominated the sport in a ridiculous way. Now not so much. It's practically all fitness at the highest level, sure skills make a difference but I wouldn't say more than a bit amongst the top riders. Otherwise riders wouldn't come in and out of form (assuming skills don't come and go the way fitness does), and in technical sections the same riders would consistently create gaps. At his peak Nijs could win races by minutes and/or have flats that placed him over a minute back and still ride back to the front.


And then there is also the direct evidence of several cross riders being caught doping (e.g. Berden and Declerq), and the mysterious disappearance from the front of race to mid-pack when the testing got serious. Nijs doped as sure as any other top rider from that era.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Jan 31, 15 12:04
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Marco Pantani. Because he had SWAG.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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In no particular order: Missy Giove, Pantani and the Chicken.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
Since you brought other sports into the mix, mine is Barry Bonds. During his prime doping years he put fear into the hearts of pitchers.

Pitchers could just walk him...which they did, more than anyone ever
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Mario De Clercq, easily. He was a local guy (I lived about 3 miles from his home) and he was just a badass guy that in some ways was like Lance; before the race begun he had already taken half of his opponents strength away through mental games and tactics. Wasn't afraid to suck wheel and then beat them in the sprint either. When they found all sorts of stuff in his home he insisted it was for research for when he was retired and was going to write a book. Got some suspension but it he's still around today as director sportif for Sunweb (with two guys racing Worlds tomorrow for the pros).


_____________________
Don't forget to attack!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Cobble] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone who came forward on their own without having to be caught..so they could slip quietly away...
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Kevin Moats because we're in the same age group.

Yes, I realize that make no sense but that's my answer.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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The 2015 winner of the Tour de France

Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." George Bernard Shaw
http://www.swimrunfrance.fr
http://www.worldofswimrun.com
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ In reply to ]
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Floyd Landis.

Legend!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ENP] [ In reply to ]
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Alexander Vinokourov. He would even attached is own team mates over and over again.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Gotta go with Landis, Vino, and Ricco.

Landis gets special points in 2006 after the Alpe D'Huez stage when he had his team car stop at a group of fans on its way down Alpe d'Huez so he could trade a yellow jersey for a beer.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Pantani-Riis-Vino-Fignon (RIP) - Jaja- Merckx-Virenque-Contador (anyone who wins a tour after aneurysm)

...I really can't make up my mind

  • Vino at the London Olympics was gold...
  • Pantani on Ventoux and all the post Ventoux "gift" banter was for the ages.
  • Riis on the 46k snowstorm stage at the 1996 Tour to Sestriere
  • Fignon losing the 89 Tour on the Champs to the Vitamin B guy
  • Merckx because he was him
  • Contador on Verbier tailwind and all
  • Jalabert and his incredible transformation from green jersey to polka dot king and then age group Mdot Podium guy! (still love having him in my age group)

But these guys have nothing on the swagger of Ben Johnson during 9.79 and his posse of steroid kings:Dennis Mitchel, Desai Williams, LInford Christie, Ray Stewart...only Calvin Smith and Robson Da Silva from what I recall were never implicated in anything!


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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Tom Simpson. If you're going to go, it might as well be while racing up the Ventoux.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [BrianB] [ In reply to ]
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BrianB wrote:
Tom Simpson. If you're going to go, it might as well be while racing up the Ventoux.

WIN!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Contador or Valverde for me. Only because those guys ride every race to win regardless of condition. Valverde in particular wins all season from January to October. In regards to Contador, probably only Merckx was as complete of a stage racer.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [adktriguy46] [ In reply to ]
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i'd say of this generation, Wiggo and Evans are quite a bit more complete. If you include the 80's, Hinault (doper), Fignon (doper), Kelly (doper), and Lemond are all more complete than Contador
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Boonen. Winning Roubaix then snorting coke off a hooker's ass is bringing it.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Ullrich......always showed up overweight at the tour, attacked and had tons of power. I was always hoping he would beat lance because at the time I knew lance must have been doping and didn't think Jan was. I always knew lance doped. Could it have been more obvious people?
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Sven Nys is BOSS.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Bjarne Riis. Anyone who acquires the nickname "Mr. 60%" is pure gold.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
Kevin Moats because we're in the same age group.

Yes, I realize that make no sense but that's my answer.

X2. My age group, too. Ran me down at St. Croix and crowed about it.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [triordie1994] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994 wrote:
Jan Ullrich......always showed up overweight at the tour, attacked and had tons of power. I was always hoping he would beat lance because at the time I knew lance must have been doping and didn't think Jan was. I always knew lance doped. Could it have been more obvious people?

Jan's first doping offence IIRC was for recreational coke use, he was hammered and high on coke and crashed his porsche int a bike rack….full of bikes.

Maurice
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Flojo
Her 100 record will stand until they dump all anti doping rules and make it open slather.
2nd place has to go to usain - when something seems to good to be true, it usually is. Like flojo, he's so far in front of second he just seems to good to be true!
Last edited by: gunsbuns: Jan 31, 15 18:49
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
The top guys are on par with top roadies. Stybar (top roadie) doesn't dominate races the way Nijs did in his hey-day.

Although Stybar races road, he is not a "top roadie" he has by far better CX palmares.
That's my point, Stybar objectively is a little better than George Hincapie on the road and he is a 2 time CX world champion.
There are easily 30-40 roadies who are better than him, so arguably would be capable of winning a CX world championship.
The only reason I can come can come up with that they aren't doing it is that skills are more important than you think. Why do
you see so few people that race both?
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Pantani-Riis-Vino-Fignon (RIP) - Jaja- Merckx-Virenque-Contador (anyone who wins a tour after aneurysm)

...I really can't make up my mind

  • Vino at the London Olympics was gold...
  • Pantani on Ventoux and all the post Ventoux "gift" banter was for the ages.
  • Riis on the 46k snowstorm stage at the 1996 Tour to Sestriere
  • Fignon losing the 89 Tour on the Champs to the Vitamin B guy
  • Merckx because he was him
  • Contador on Verbier tailwind and all
  • Jalabert and his incredible transformation from green jersey to polka dot king and then age group Mdot Podium guy! (still love having him in my age group)

But these guys have nothing on the swagger of Ben Johnson during 9.79 and his posse of steroid kings:Dennis Mitchel, Desai Williams, LInford Christie, Ray Stewart...only Calvin Smith and Robson Da Silva from what I recall were never implicated in anything!


Hey, why no love for Carl Lewis? He was a way better doper than Ben Johnson?
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Spicoli, hands down.

I've been Moving in Stereo ever since....
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Vinokourov hands down the best.
He had the killer instinct and the dope put him over the top for some of the most opportunistic wins I have ever seen.
His win on the Champs Elysees has to be one of the all time classic victories in cycling.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Bill Clinton.

Proud Representative of Slowtwitch Anti-Atheists Society.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Pantani-Riis-Vino-Fignon (RIP) - Jaja- Merckx-Virenque-Contador (anyone who wins a tour after aneurysm)

...I really can't make up my mind

  • Vino at the London Olympics was gold...
  • Pantani on Ventoux and all the post Ventoux "gift" banter was for the ages.
  • Riis on the 46k snowstorm stage at the 1996 Tour to Sestriere
  • Fignon losing the 89 Tour on the Champs to the Vitamin B guy
  • Merckx because he was him
  • Contador on Verbier tailwind and all
  • Jalabert and his incredible transformation from green jersey to polka dot king and then age group Mdot Podium guy! (still love having him in my age group)

But these guys have nothing on the swagger of Ben Johnson during 9.79 and his posse of steroid kings:Dennis Mitchel, Desai Williams, LInford Christie, Ray Stewart...only Calvin Smith and Robson Da Silva from what I recall were never implicated in anything!



Hey, why no love for Carl Lewis? He was a way better doper than Ben Johnson?

LOL...how did a leave Carl out of the posse....I was so focused on making sure that I did not include Calvin Smith and Robson Da Silva that I painted Carl with the "clean" brush....oh the shame.

As for the cyclists, I think Vino had the perfect swagger to go with the dope...and the London Olympic gold was like, "Hey, you put me in the penalty box, I did my time and I took the gold from under the nose of the Queen". That was almost like Stalin coming through Trafalgar square and taking the crown off the Queen's head shortly after her coronation. too bad for Cavendish and crew, but Vino on the Mall was one of the ages. Vino must have been the most love-able rider on the bike that is hate-able off the bike! But hey, we don't really pay to watch what they do off the bike :-(. At least the sponsors don't think so.

Soon going to be time to tune Djokovic vs,. Murray in the Aussie Open finals....I THINK I am watching two clean players.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Tri_It_JB] [ In reply to ]
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Leave it to Beaver, er in this case Bryden (the younger) to take the high road, Rob (the elder) would be proud. BTW: you are bad ass as well, as any kid would be doing tempo runs at 11 PM in Airdrie!

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [gunsbuns] [ In reply to ]
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 Flo Jo is in the conversation for the greatest athlete of all time. The only proof that anyone has ever had against her was she was too good.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Flo Jo is in the conversation for the greatest athlete of all time. The only proof that anyone has ever had against her was she was too good.

I think her premature death and her incredible improvement leading into '88 provide a lot of proof.
Plus, those outfits she wore, you would have to be smoking something;)
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Lance Armstrong and Miguel Indurain!!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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one ball lance is still my favorite
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Jan's first doping offence IIRC was for recreational coke use, he was hammered and high on coke and crashed his porsche int a bike rack….full of bikes.

Actually it was for ecstasy and he was not racing at the time; he was recovering from knee issues. Instead of racing the Tour he apparently spent his time clubbing. The DUI and crash happened at another time.

He never showed up overweight at the Tour.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:

I think her premature death and her incredible improvement leading into '88 provide a lot of proof.
Plus, those outfits she wore, you would have to be smoking something;)


Evidence, not proof. And not direct evidence.

And she had a congenital brain abnormality that made per pre-disposed to epileptic seizures. Which was determined to be the cause of death. So her death seems to be a pretty weak link to doping.

She was "too good" in 1988, though. Same with Michael Johnson in '96. But about all we have to go on is that some of their competitors were definitely doping and they still dominated. That's been a pretty good predictor of doping so far. But eventually we'll get one wrong. And that'd be a shame.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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I like Contador and Valverde. Both Spanish pros at doping, and also amazingly great bike racers that are entertaining to watch.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Greg Lemond as he was never caught and got out before he did!
Last edited by: BMANX: Feb 1, 15 8:06
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Iamironman] [ In reply to ]
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Iamironman wrote:
Bill Clinton.

C'mon serious? What's the matter with you--? He said HE DIDN'T INHALE!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Mine's a Spanish triathlete
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
The top guys are on par with top roadies. Stybar (top roadie) doesn't dominate races the way Nijs did in his hey-day.


Although Stybar races road, he is not a "top roadie" he has by far better CX palmares.
That's my point, Stybar objectively is a little better than George Hincapie on the road and he is a 2 time CX world champion.
There are easily 30-40 roadies who are better than him, so arguably would be capable of winning a CX world championship.
The only reason I can come can come up with that they aren't doing it is that skills are more important than you think. Why do
you see so few people that race both?

Because it's very hard to race at the top year round. Even the roadies and mountain bikers who do cross tend to race a truncated season based on the world championships, so instead of a 4 month season they do a one month season if that. I think you seriously underestimate Stybar, he's got more class in his pinkie than Hincapie ever had.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Hey I got called Lance twice yesterday on my daily ride by random folks one being a cop.
Maybe its a sign I need to loosen on the doping....
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I'd disagree with that. Neither wiggins or Evans are as explosive on the climbs and only wiggins TTs better. Don't get me wrong they're great riders but I don't think they're anywhere near the same league as Contador. That's why he's won so many grand tours and the others only one each.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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The Hulkster!


__________________________________________________
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.

She's got a package that would put more than a few guys to shame.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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adktriguy46 wrote:
Yeah I'd disagree with that. Neither wiggins or Evans are as explosive on the climbs and only wiggins TTs better. Don't get me wrong they're great riders but I don't think they're anywhere near the same league as Contador. That's why he's won so many grand tours and the others only one each.

The term you used is "complete stage racer", not explosive climber. Wiggo and Evans are both more complete as racers and are reminiscent of stage racers of the 80's. Wiggo on the boards and Paris Roubaix, and Evans winning worlds and that atrocious stage in Montalcino are testaments to that.


BMANX wrote:
Greg Lemond as he was never caught and got out before he did!

Aside from the veracity of your statement, be glad that the owner of this place isn't a fan of Lemond or else you'd have gotten the boot like so many who saw through the Armstrong charade
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I have always believed that he did and always will. With him beating so many confirmed dopers, I seriously doubt that his natural talent was that much better than that of the people he beat while they were doping. I stand by my statement that he got out in time before he got caught. If that gets me banned on this site so be it. I know others agree with me!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ In reply to ]
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The greatest doper off all times is not on any list but it is the person that has done it and gotten away without being caught. The problem that I have is that the list of people that have gotten away with doping is far larger than that of the people who did and got caught. Lance is just the biggest JA that got caught.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
The term you used is "complete stage racer", not explosive climber. Wiggo and Evans are both more complete as racers and are reminiscent of stage racers of the 80's. Wiggo on the boards and Paris Roubaix, and Evans winning worlds and that atrocious stage in Montalcino are testaments to that.

Today we don't have stage races reminiscent of the 80's. We have what we have, and Contador has won three Tours, three Vueltas, and two Giros along with a many shorter stage races. Evans and, especially, Wiggins are not even in the same league when it comes to discussing stage racers of this era. Those two don't rate above Nibali and Menchov. Heck, Valverde rates better than those two.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I have always believed that he did and always will. With him beating so many confirmed dopers, I seriously doubt that his natural talent was that much better than that of the people he beat while they were doping. I stand by my statement that he got out in time before he got caught. If that gets me banned on this site so be it. I know others agree with me!

having "others agree with" [you] is not the most logically persuasive of arguments. I know you aren't going to persuade me, and i won't be able to persuade you, but Armstrong did put a bounty out there demanding dirt on Lemond, and the best he could find was the vitamin b12 injection. Back when Armstrong reigned supreme, you can be sure he'd have publicized anything that could have tarnished Lemond, except he found nothing.


Arch Stanton wrote:
echappist wrote:

The term you used is "complete stage racer", not explosive climber. Wiggo and Evans are both more complete as racers and are reminiscent of stage racers of the 80's. Wiggo on the boards and Paris Roubaix, and Evans winning worlds and that atrocious stage in Montalcino are testaments to that.


Today we don't have stage races reminiscent of the 80's. We have what we have, and Contador has won three Tours, three Vueltas, and two Giros along with a many shorter stage races. Evans and, especially, Wiggins are not even in the same league when it comes to discussing stage racers of this era. Those two don't rate above Nibali and Menchov. Heck, Valverde rates better than those two.

I'd give it to you if you say Valverde is a more complete stage racer as he's won quite a few different types of races, but he has only one grand tour (2009 Vuelta in which Evans got hosed with a minute+ a bike change) in his palmares. Contador is the best stage racer but by no means the most complete. His palmares in the classics leaves much to be desired.

or perhaps it's all semantics as my definition of complete stage racer means the most versatile of stage racers.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
I think you seriously underestimate Stybar, he's got more class in his pinkie than Hincapie ever had.

Apparently class doesn't equal results, but Stybar is still youngish.
Hincapie's best results at PR, a pair of 4ths, Stybar has a 5th and 6th and that is the sum total of Classics palmares, so no his career so far on the road is still a long way from equaling Hincapie.

Stybar is proof that second tier road talent is good enough to be a CX world champion if you know how to ride a bike.
I understand you can't be on form all year, but given the choice of being a second tier roadie or a CX world champion
I think the decision would be easy, even if you don't make a career out of it. Stybar is proof, he is known as a CX world champion,
the fact that he road races is mostly a curiosity.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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The Seahawks offensive coordinator, cuz he had to be high to call that play.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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I'll put Indurain out there as the 'nicest'.

29 years and counting
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.

For the win. Though I am not getting the tennis comparison. Serena looks oddly... natural IMO.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Virenque and Marco Pantani come to mind. Richard because he was the face of the Festina affair but he did his time and came back to win races in a bold manner. A part of me wonders if he really came back clean, but he was so much fun to watch that I'll confess I didn't care too much. Pantani is in a similar place. You knew it couldn't be real but it was amazing theatrics and his personality lit up the race. We may never see another one like him again in my lifetime.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Tommy Chong
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [dgran] [ In reply to ]
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dgran wrote:
Richard Virenque and Marco Pantani come to mind. Richard because he was the face of the Festina affair but he did his time and came back to win races in a bold manner. A part of me wonders if he really came back clean, but he was so much fun to watch that I'll confess I didn't care too much. Pantani is in a similar place. You knew it couldn't be real but it was amazing theatrics and his personality lit up the race. We may never see another one like him again in my lifetime.

To the part in bold...no chance. Here is your metric....Rominger goes 55 kph on the full blown Ferrari program in the 1994 world hour record....our boys on the biological passport today are barely cracking 51 kph. Virenque came back and was taking the polka dot jersey from a peloton filed with dopers on the EPO+transfusion plan. No chance in frozen hell that Virenque came back clean. It was in the era when number 7, the UCI, ASO and the French TV networks were all in collaboration WWE/NFL style to keep the dream and $$$ gravy train alive. Virenque clean has about the same chance that you watched a 1 yard line pick off yesterday with 22 clean men on the field with zero pharmaceutical enhancement....but wasn't the superbowl awesome?

Sit back, kick back, and enjoy the show that our gallery of dopers put on for our entertainment. It has been going on since Roman Gladiator times. We're watching a show. The secrets that the gladiators have to conceal to keep the show alive are tricks of their collective trades...big money, big show, big enhancement, big cover ups. Nothing new. I am sure when they had Madison racing at Madison Square Gardens and track cycling was the biggest betting sport in America, things were pretty well the same.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Rominger goes 55 kph on the full blown Ferrari program in the 1994 world hour record....our boys on the biological passport today are barely cracking 51 kph.

I guess once the 'big guns' have set their modern-day Hour markers, we'll have an even better comparison. To think that Rominger did that on a steel tubed frame as well....

29 years and counting
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Usain Bolt
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
Flo Jo is in the conversation for the greatest athlete of all time. The only proof that anyone has ever had against her was she was too good.


I think her premature death and her incredible improvement leading into '88 provide a lot of proof.
Plus, those outfits she wore, you would have to be smoking something;)

In addition, look at the company she kept. Definitely all the proof one needs.

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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Captain America


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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.

Kind of looks like Roger Daltry
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [T-wrecks] [tri_yoda] [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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T-wrecks wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
Flo Jo is in the conversation for the greatest athlete of all time. The only proof that anyone has ever had against her was she was too good.


I think her premature death and her incredible improvement leading into '88 provide a lot of proof.
Plus, those outfits she wore, you would have to be smoking something;)


In addition, look at the company she kept. Definitely all the proof one needs.

Her still standing 200 WR of 21.34 at the Seoul Olympics casts a doubt for a lot of people. I have read accounts that even though the wind was measured at +1.3 mps (+2.0 is max allowable for a WR) that at the same time as the race, the long jump gauge was reading almost +3.0. That particular race might just have been wind-aided.

For that matter, take a look at all the still standing women's records from the 80's:
Marita Koch (East German) 400m
Jarmila Kratochvílová (Czech) 800m
Yordanka Donkova (Bulgaria) 100m Hurdles
Stefka Kostadinova (Bulgaria) High Jump
Galina Chistyakova (Russia) Long Jump
Natalya Lisovskaya (Russia) Shot Put
Gabriele Reinsch (East German) Discus
And the Russian 4x400 and 4x800 relay teams. Is there a communist block theme?

And don't forget the Chinese distance crew from the early 90's
Yunxia Qu
Junxia Wang

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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Huh? Contador has 8 wins (6 still count) across all three GTs. Wiggo and Evans have 1 each at just Le Tour. Plus I believe Contador jas close to 15 podiums in other stage races.

If the argument is more complete rider then it's a different conversation. But more complete stage racer isn't even a competiton. That aside, Wiggo is more competent on cobbles but not even in same league of a descender as Contador--which skill is more relevant?
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Feb 2, 15 10:02
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Pantani.

/thread

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.

Nice package as well.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Daremo] [ In reply to ]
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Have to go with Contador. The guy has cajones grandes and fights to the end with an attacking style. At the Tour in 2013 he crashed in first week and clearly didn't look right, but fought all the way to the end even when it was clear he wasn't contending. He's a hard man, where Pantani was a near basket case.
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Feb 2, 15 11:02
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [deludedcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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deludedcyclist wrote:
Riccardo Ricco. I loved his crazy attacks in the 2008 tour. And that every time he came back he got caught cheating.
+1 You would be hard-pressed to find a more committed doper. Do it yourself blood transfusions, multiple doping violations, doping girlfriend, still doping on a lifetime suspension. He is/was the hardest of the hardcore.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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As soon as the road went up, il Pirato just attacked/attacked/attacked. Where AC rides with some explosiveness and excitement, MP just rode with passion. In an age when everyone was full blown juiced with epo and blood bags, he was STILL walking away from them on the climbs on a good day.

He was just so much fun to watch.

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib
Last edited by: Daremo: Feb 2, 15 11:17
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Last edited by: bobttcoach: Feb 2, 15 11:32
Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Kscycler] [ In reply to ]
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Kscycler wrote:
pattersonpaul wrote:
Kevin Moats because we're in the same age group.

Yes, I realize that make no sense but that's my answer.


X2. My age group, too. Ran me down at St. Croix and crowed about it.

+1 on Kevin Moats because he's local and even my cycling buddy knew Kevin was doping long before he was caught. The one you personally know that rubs it in your face counts for something.

Glad to see mention of the Eastern Bloc programs that cheated many amateurs around the world out of medals and records.

Still don't think Lemond was doping (ever the optimist).

No mention of Nike? The European press is very much up to speed on Nike athletes on synthroid and their alleged ability to approach and not cross the testing lines.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Regarding Usain Bolt, if he is taking, what would you guess it is and how does he get away with it?

I wonder if there is more doping at the top of the cycling pro peloton to win races, or more at the bottom end as they fight for their careers?

http://www.thedeludedcyclist.wordpress.com
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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I thought we had already decided the favorite was Jens?
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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take a look at last years Lavaman ,,your buddy won that ,plus he won the 10k road race in Kona earlier ???hmmm.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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The Flying Tomato!
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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yeah fair point as it was semantics i was arguing.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [deludedcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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You can't mention the Cobra and not bring up trying to transfuse his own blood out of fridge and almost dying while still denying it. And then once he was banned for 12 years claiming that he going to set strava records on all the big passes.

Frank VBD is the king though. Just google it, too much to list here. Od'd with a Senagalese hooker.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [jjh] [ In reply to ]
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I was always looking up to Virenque growing up. Attacking from the get go in mountain stages and going solo with multiple climbs ahead. Who rides with that panache/stupidity anymore ?
Pantani was a fantastic, but he was also smart and just attacking on the last climb.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [jjh] [ In reply to ]
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jjh wrote:
You can't mention the Cobra and not bring up trying to transfuse his own blood out of fridge and almost dying while still denying it. And then once he was banned for 12 years claiming that he going to set strava records on all the big passes.

That project is still on. Ricco set a great time up Ventoux last year then crashed while descending. He looks like he is in killer shape.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [jjh] [ In reply to ]
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jjh wrote:
You can't mention the Cobra and not bring up trying to transfuse his own blood out of fridge and almost dying while still denying it. And then once he was banned for 12 years claiming that he going to set strava records on all the big passes.

Frank VBD is the king though. Just google it, too much to list here. Od'd with a Senagalese hooker.
I don't think many Americans will know VDB but sure was something special. Beautiful style, extremely elegant. Such a talent gone to waste. Him and Gaumont took doing to a new level. One died and the other almost.


_____________________
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Cobble] [ In reply to ]
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you can't be a real cycling fan and not know who VDB I is. Okay, that was a True Scotsman fallacy, but him winning Liege and then storming in Vuelta despite his late night escapades is up there with Pantani's attacks and Boonen's partying.

and since we brought up VDB, i guess another would be Michele "Sansone" Bartoli. I'd argue he had the most graceful of styles, not the least of which when he attacked on la Redoute, out of saddle and hands in the drops. Even when he's on his hoods, he's still so damn aero... I think he's the last person to have won both Liege and de Ronde. Impressive

Last edited by: echappist: Feb 2, 15 20:56
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot about Philipe Gaumount. The part on Millar's book where Gaumonut is attempting, through a fog of sedatives and alcohol, to assemble his bike in the Madrid airport is a highlight.

He of course arranged the Senegal hooker/heroin sortie that got VDB killed.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [deludedcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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deludedcyclist wrote:
Regarding Usain Bolt, if he is taking, what would you guess it is and how does he get away with it?

I wonder if there is more doping at the top of the cycling pro peloton to win races, or more at the bottom end as they fight for their careers?

Steroids, like all top sprinters. One top coach was quoted at the London Olympics saying you could nnot make the final of the 100m without doping.

As for getting away with, it's not so hard. Mainly, avoid getting tested when you're hot. Easier for some than others, but seemingly quite easy for the Jamaicans.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Previously top sprinters (marion jones and others) were getting away with steroids by using a custom designer steroid that nobody knew to test for.

No reason you can't do that again, and again.
There are a great many compounds that will bind to the androgen receptors and do their good work. Possibly an infinity of them?

Any chemists around?



Kay Serrar wrote:
deludedcyclist wrote:
Regarding Usain Bolt, if he is taking, what would you guess it is and how does he get away with it?

I wonder if there is more doping at the top of the cycling pro peloton to win races, or more at the bottom end as they fight for their careers?

Steroids, like all top sprinters. One top coach was quoted at the London Olympics saying you could nnot make the final of the 100m without doping.

As for getting away with, it's not so hard. Mainly, avoid getting tested when you're hot. Easier for some than others, but seemingly quite easy for the Jamaicans.



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Last edited by: jackmott: Feb 4, 15 9:19
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Justin Gatlin...

His resume:

- Age 32
- Previously banned twice for doping
- Unbeaten in 2014
- Fastest time of 2014 (9.77)
- Ran six of the seven fastest 100m in 2014
- Fastest ever sprint double, clocking 9.77 seconds for the 100m an hour before running the 200m in 19.71 (previous PR 20.03) - last summer
- Nominated for IAAF Athlete of the Year 2014

Meanwhile...
Drug cheats in sport could benefit 'for decades', scientists find
http://www.bbc.com/...0/athletics/29510575
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Any thread that OP starts with Jerry Garcia gets a bump (excuse the PUN!). Oh how I miss the good 'ol days!

I read the first page of posts....no mention of Indurain....but as a Canadian; seriously, it's Big Ben all the way. 1988. NOTHING IN TRACK HAS CHANGED. And now that there's more $ in world marathons then 10000 meters the tradition continues. Sad really. Curious if 2035 we will look back to cycling like track 27 yrs later and see same unfortunate trend to the miraculous clean day of 2006!

Oh. And the entire NFL. God I love football.

@rhyspencer
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.


For the win. Though I am not getting the tennis comparison. Serena looks oddly... natural IMO.

"He's a pinball wizard...". my fav is the Chicken
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
+1 You would be hard-pressed to find a more committed doper. Do it yourself blood transfusions, multiple doping violations, doping girlfriend, still doping on a lifetime suspension. He is/was the hardest of the hardcore.

Funniest post yet in this thread.


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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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I still have a hard time believing that wasn't a dude :)


Alvin Tostig wrote:
Jarmila Kratochvilova



I remember seeing her during the 1980 Olympics. I wished I could have had the same upper body physique.

She reminds me of some of today's women's tennis players.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Spicoli, hands down.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Ewwww.
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Ben Johnson has got to be my favourite.

I remember watching him on a local cable access channel as a 15 year old at the regional track champs. He was already big for his age and he just got bigger a time went on. I watched every year after that.

I was actually shocked when he got pinged, because I'd seen him grow big over a number of years, not overnight like typical steriod users of that era. I liked that even though it was steroid induced, he showed that a big upper body helped make you run fast. I also loved the look in Carl Lewis's eyes when Ben beat him in Soeul. He musta bin thinkin' "I'm juiced to the eyeballs, how can Ben beat me?"

It was unfortunate that his coach (Charlie Francis?) took advantage of the rather dim witted Ben all those years.

Ben was just amazing to watch. Where is he now?

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Hunter Thompson... Because doping for performance is lame ;)

http://espn.go.com/...thompson/021216.html

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Re: Who's your favorite doper? [Cobble] [ In reply to ]
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Cobble wrote:
jjh wrote:
You can't mention the Cobra and not bring up trying to transfuse his own blood out of fridge and almost dying while still denying it. And then once he was banned for 12 years claiming that he going to set strava records on all the big passes.

Frank VBD is the king though. Just google it, too much to list here. Od'd with a Senagalese hooker.
I don't think many Americans will know VDB but sure was something special. Beautiful style, extremely elegant. Such a talent gone to waste. Him and Gaumont took doing to a new level. One died and the other almost.


For those that don't know VDB- this video shows him leading the who's who of doped riders in the mountains during the 1999 Vuelta, and then he proceeds to ride them off is wheel and get the first of two stage wins in the 1999 Vuelta.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MOQuF4_BI

stage 16- Vuelta 1999 "Vandenbroucke (Cofidis), who is trying to rebuild his career and reputation after the "Dr Mabeuse" affair earlier this year, escaped with Spain's Jon Odriozola (Banesto) with approximately 55 kilometers to go, and quickly pulled away from the peloton. The pair had built a gap of nearly 5 minutes to an eight-man chasing group, and nearly 13 minutes to the majority of the bunch at the finish."

stage 19- Vuelta 1999 "Belgium's Frank Vandenbroucke gave a hint of what might have been during today's 19th stage of La Vuelta a España. In the past few days, the recently reinstated rider from Cofidis has started to show the form that he had at the beginning of the season, prior to his suspension resulting from the "Sainz-Lavelot" affair. The World Championships are surely firm in this man's sights now.
The final mountain stage saw a group of roughly 25 riders form with 75 km to go on top of the first category Alto de Pedro Bernado. As the stage progressed, Vandenbroucke showed his strength, dropping all but six others on the final climb, the second category Puetro de Navamoral. "

Lastly- this pretty much sums up VDB:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ucke-and-the-99-race
"
The retired Italian rider, Nicola Miceli, really ought to have fond recollections of the 1999 Vuelta a España. In the second week, Miceli was riding as well as at any point during his career, twice finishing mountain stages in the top three. And, yet, at the same time, Miceli felt like packing up and going home.
"That Vuelta a España was the only time in my career that another rider made me lose the will to race my bike. I'm talking about Frank Vandenbroucke," Miceli says, for the avoidance of any ambiguity. "He'd be coming back to the hotel in the small hours, with a girl, possibly drunk, and then going and killing us all on the road the next day. You know, you train hard, you go a month without sex before a grand tour - because you tell yourself that's what it takes - then you see that. It makes you think, 'What am I even doing here?'"

The annals record that Jan Ullrich won the 1999 Vuelta, but for most who were there - like Miceli - the race was in equal measures memorable and traumatic on account of Vandenbroucke's performances. The late enfant terrible of Belgian cycling won two stages, to Teruel and Ávila, and in the final ten days rode the the entire peloton, Ullrich included, into beleaguered, awestruck submission. Fifteen years on, what El País called a "demonstration" stands as a mawkish monument to VDB's tragically short career and life, and an era that professional cycling hasn't yet worked out how to remember or forget.
Last edited by: mcycle: Feb 4, 15 17:10
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