Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy?

Nov 3, 10 10:57

Post #1 of 82 Views: 6315

I would like to get some additional opinions on the WTC refund policy. Unfortunately, since you have to sign up for an IM race so far in advance, there is no way to plan the unexpected. I know everyone hates the refund policy, but should they make any additional considerations specifically related to pregnancy?

My husband and I signed up for IMTX as soon as it opened this summer. I recently found out I was going to have a baby and sent WTC a note 7 months prior to race day (the race is May 2011) indicating that I was pregnant and would be unable to race. I am due 4 weeks before the race...I don't think I'll be ready to hop on a bike by that point. I asked for either a refund or a deferral to 2012. I got a form letter in return indicating that I could withdraw my entry and get a $150 refund (as is indicated on the website) or forfeit the whole $630.

I knew the policy before I signed up and that there was a possibility I would get pregnant, but you can never know for sure when that will happen. I can understand them sticking to their policy, but does that make the policy right? Many of the women in IM races are of childbearing age, and at least here in the US all the IM races sell out a year in advance. Should we not register because we MIGHT get pregnant before the race? Is this discrimination?

I know I am not the only one who has been in this situation, and that there are costs associated with putting on these events and dealing with exceptions regarding refunds. But I think WTC should be a little more flexible in their policies by giving some consideration to the women in triathlon. We are doing our part to create future triathletes :) - should we be penalized for our contribution to our sport?

Thoughts?

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:03

Post #2 of 82 Views: 6288

Nope...I don't think pregnancy is any different from any other life circumstance that might inhibit your ability to participate.

-------------------------------
I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:06

Post #3 of 82 Views: 6269

Congrats by the way.

But I would say that pregnancy would be even less of a reason because it's 'planned'. A crash, Cancer, etc are not so planned and they would not give a refund in that instance.

...

Owner/Head Coach for Endurance Concepts
http://www.EnduranceConcepts.com
Sponsored by: Cadence Bikes & Multisport & Brooks

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [marvarnett] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:07

Post #4 of 82 Views: 6257

In Reply To:

Congrats by the way.

But I would say that pregnancy would be even less of a reason because it's 'planned'. A crash, Cancer, etc are not so planned and they would not give a refund in that instance.

...

Not always. Just sayin'.

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:07

Post #5 of 82 Views: 6256

To paraphrase more than one judge lecturing family law clients of mine (in a prior life): "You should have thought of that before you took your pants off."

Congrats on the addition to the family! (and good luck getting any money here)

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:09

Post #6 of 82 Views: 6243

if they give you a refund for pregnancy, then they should give men a refund for their wives pregnancy too!
or else that's discrimination.

WTC sucks, etc,.etc.
Challenge series has an option to pay an extra 50 bucks and get a no questions asked refund.
i like that idea.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:09

Post #7 of 82 Views: 6243

1st off, congratulations!

2nd, frankly, too bad. If it was that important to you, then you could have used birth control or abstained for the year. ;)

While I think that WTC should have a waiting list, where they could 'sell' a cancellation to someone else for an admin. fee, I actually support their withdrawl policy - you can only imagine the number of people who would withdraw if they knew they 'could'...

Embrace the new addition to the family, take the $150 and buy a jogging stoller! :)

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:10

Post #8 of 82 Views: 6240

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

____________________________________________
Virtual Run Coach
iPhone or iPad: http://goo.gl/KoWru7
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Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:13

Post #9 of 82 Views: 6223

I'll start with I'm a female of childbearing age. During my last IM I thought/worried about getting pregnant and not being able to race. I don't think WTC should offer any exceptions for pregnancy. While sometimes it is unexpected, I don't feel it's any different than getting hit by a car and not being able to race. It's a risk you take when you sign up.

All that being said, a big congratulations and I hope all goes well with a cute, healthy baby this spring.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:15

Post #10 of 82 Views: 6205

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

Congrats by the way.

But I would say that pregnancy would be even less of a reason because it's 'planned'. A crash, Cancer, etc are not so planned and they would not give a refund in that instance.

...

Not always. Just sayin'.

Hence the "quotes".

..

Owner/Head Coach for Endurance Concepts
http://www.EnduranceConcepts.com
Sponsored by: Cadence Bikes & Multisport & Brooks

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:16

Post #11 of 82 Views: 6204

The policy is what it is and everyone knows about it when they sign up for a WTC race.

Is it right?Yes it is because they can do whatever they like as they make the rules for their own events.

Is it a popular rule? No.

Should WTC make special rules for women? No.

If WTC made special rules for women would that be discrimination? Yes.

.........................................................................................................

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:30

Post #12 of 82 Views: 6146

congrats and no.

rules be rules.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:31

Post #13 of 82 Views: 6144

No, it's not discrimination. You knew the policy prior to signing up and if you don't agree to the WTC policies or if you don't like WTC for any other reasons you can always vote with your money (or credit indebtedness for many..) and don't sign up.

"I knew the policy before I signed up and that there was a possibility I would get pregnant,"
Is this a troll? Seriously, if you knew you were trying to get pregnant, were you unaware that there was a 9 month gestation period?

" Is this discrimination? "
You're trolling, right? Or maybe you belong to camp estrogen and are also in favor of special consideration for your days on the rag and are wondering why women are paid less in the workforce. It would be discriminatory to have a special exemption for women for pregnancy and not allow men the same opt-out for the anticipation of a child or any other medical condition. You knew the policy prior to signing up, deal with it.

"We are doing our part to create future triathletes :) - should we be penalized for our contribution to our sport? "
I pity your husband for your hormonal irrationality. Nobody penalizes you in any way but this is exactly the mentality of this Nation and everybody blames somebody else for the consequences of their actions, whether that is signing up for a triathlon well knowing the policies in advance, getting into a house one cannot afford, signing mortgages to live beyond the means and then expecting bailouts, etc.

"Thoughts?"
You wanted them, you got them.

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:33

Post #14 of 82 Views: 6132

Quote:

I know everyone hates the refund policy,

FTR, I don't.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [slidell4life] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:35

Post #15 of 82 Views: 6116

Quote:

Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because they've already pre-sold it in anticipation that a certain percentage will not show up.

Thom

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [qqqq] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:42

Post #16 of 82 Views: 6086

In Reply To:

No, it's not discrimination. You knew the policy prior to signing up and if you don't agree to the WTC policies or if you don't like WTC for any other reasons you can always vote with your money (or credit indebtedness for many..) and don't sign up.

"I knew the policy before I signed up and that there was a possibility I would get pregnant,"
Is this a troll? Seriously, if you knew you were trying to get pregnant, were you unaware that there was a 9 month gestation period?

" Is this discrimination? "
You're trolling, right? Or maybe you belong to camp estrogen and are also in favor of special consideration for your days on the rag and are wondering why women are paid less in the workforce. It would be discriminatory to have a special exemption for women for pregnancy and not allow men the same opt-out for the anticipation of a child or any other medical condition. You knew the policy prior to signing up, deal with it.

"We are doing our part to create future triathletes :) - should we be penalized for our contribution to our sport? "
I pity your husband for your hormonal irrationality. Nobody penalizes you in any way but this is exactly the mentality of this Nation and everybody blames somebody else for the consequences of their actions, whether that is signing up for a triathlon well knowing the policies in advance, getting into a house one cannot afford, signing mortgages to live beyond the means and then expecting bailouts, etc.

"Thoughts?"
You wanted them, you got them.

----------------------------------------------------------

Shame on you for saying such things to a woman here on Slowtwitch.

If you ever want to apply for an Australian passport I'll happily to put in a good word for you.We need more guys like you down under. ;-)

.
.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:43

Post #17 of 82 Views: 6079

No.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:43

Post #18 of 82 Views: 6077

I just moved to Colorado. My wife and I have been trying for a while. We wanted to do the whole ski thing and bought our ski passes for the winter. They offered pregnancy insurance for this and we paid for it ($25 I think). We just found out she's pregnant and are glad we took out the insurance. It would be nice if WTC did something similar. So, yes, I think they should change their policy.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:46

Post #19 of 82 Views: 6060

Overall, thanks for your opinions...it's often hard to make judgement calls when they involve yourself.

In my opinion, (regardless of my personal situation), I think WTC should implement a transfer policy, an insurance policy or do refunds on a rolling basis (you know, 80% back 10 months in advance, 50% back 5 months, etc...). But yeah, you're right, they can do whatever they want because it's their race...I was just curious as to what everyone else thought.

I don't hate WTC, and I knew what I was getting into when I had unprotected sex, and I knew the consequences regarding my entry. At no point in my thread did I complain...I have a pure curiosity as to the general consensus.

As for you qqqq...dear lord. Go get laid.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:48

Post #20 of 82 Views: 6047

Oh, and thanks for the congratulations...we are very excited! Thus far, our only purchase has been the baby jogger. Probably need to start thinking about the other stuff soon, eh? :)

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:52

Post #21 of 82 Views: 6029

No. I think the policy is fine - and I had to withdraw once - didn't bother me to "lose" the money.

Congrats on the baby.

But I've got to ask: if your properly training - how did you get pregnant?

We are doing our part to create future triathletes :) So do the guys

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Fooshee] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:53

Post #22 of 82 Views: 6028

The issue with this is it begins to open the door for a host of other allowances- all of them reasonable and arguable (like pregancy)- but taken as a group they could easily become excessive.

Once one allowance is granted an argument could then be made for:

sickness
undertraining
addiction
injury
change in work schedule
loss of job
moving
financial adversity
educational opportunities
military deployment

These are all relatively common, life circumstances that happen to many people. That's the problem. Only about half the field would make it to the start line.

Ironman is hard, really hard. In a way, it is like any other very large commitment- you give things up for it or you give it up for things- but not both. When you hit the "Enter" button to register you're signing on for more than just one tough day. You're commiting to weeks and months of tough workouts in all conditions- you know that. It's is part of what puts the "Iron" in Ironman. It isn't easy, it isn't for everyone.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:56

Post #23 of 82 Views: 6008

"...it's often hard to make judgement calls when they involve yourself."

Except in your case- where you are courteous and conscientious enough to survey other perspectives- which speaks well of you. :)

Also- congratulations!

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 11:58

Post #24 of 82 Views: 5995

"As for you qqqq...dear lord. Go get laid."

Just did this morning ;)

" At no point in my thread did I complain.."

No, you didn't complain, you whined about a policy you agreed to in your sign up process and went as far as to ask and suggest discrimination. You keep stating that you knew that you had unprotected sex and were possibly expecting a baby. Why would one sign up for a race well knowing this possibility, well knowing the policy yet bitch about it when one gets pregnant and cannot do the race. It's one thing to do something and deal with the consequences, it's another to agree to the terms knowing the possible outcome and then point the fingers at others in hindsight. I sure hope you don't raise your kids with that entitlement "logic".

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Fooshee] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:02

Post #25 of 82 Views: 5988

I like the pregnancy insurance idea. I am a woman who is having troubles getting pregnant, and find it difficult to put everything on hold in hope for a miracle. If I were to get pregnant after plopping down hundreds of dollars for a race entry, I'm sure I'd be happy enough that I was going to have a baby that I would eat the money - but a refund would be nice. I'd pay for cancellation insurance if given the option. Just my opinion. But it is definitely something in the back of my mind when signing up for any race.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:11

Post #26 of 82 Views: 2758

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

Congrats by the way.

But I would say that pregnancy would be even less of a reason because it's 'planned'. A crash, Cancer, etc are not so planned and they would not give a refund in that instance.

...

Not always. Just sayin'.

No such thing as a butt baby

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:16

Post #27 of 82 Views: 2747

Perhaps a better refund policy, and some kind of wait list would be the answer instead of an "Ironman Access Program"?

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:26

Post #28 of 82 Views: 2723

I actually think she should get a refund. Same reason I believe women should get paid maternity leave from work.

It's not like they be able won't fill the empty slot.

^^Wow, there's potential for a great joke there, but I have too much of a head cold to grab it.

As for the fathers, well they COULD still choose to race after their partner/wife had the kid, but at least they have the choice. I don't think the OP really will have the same option.

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kosherdave] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:31

Post #29 of 82 Views: 2707

What reason is that?

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:32

Post #30 of 82 Views: 2705

The refund policy leaves a lot to be desired, particularly when demand waaaay outstrips supply.

You knew the policy when you entered

Pregnancy ain't no accident. Not like a bus ran you over and you woke up pregnant! (I'm assuming you weren't raped, based on you post)

No special consideration required.

The whole policy DOES need to be revamped however. But not just for pregnancy

Congrats and I hope everything goes well with your future ironman (aka baby)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:33

Post #31 of 82 Views: 2699

Oh yes, and I forgot to say Mazel Tov!

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:37

Post #32 of 82 Views: 2684

military deployment - I would hope on this one that they would refund the money if the person was sent to a war zone.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kosherdave] [ In reply to ]

michaelgasser17

Nov 3, 10 12:42

Post #33 of 82 Views: 2667

Some IM branded races do have a rolling refund scale. IM Swiss for example gives 75, 50, and 25% based on when you cancel. If they implemented this across the board they might appease more athletes. Every venue is different, however, and they do have to plan for those differences between venues, so I do understand different policies for different races.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:48

Post #34 of 82 Views: 2649

Or a really bad blister. That's gotta be worthy of a full refund? Maybe a note from your mum?

Either they (WTC and all RD's) need to have a no refund policy, or a decent refund policy that covers everything including a note from mummy.All or nothing, otherwise ST'ers will just whine about where the line gets drawn.

Back in the day, when races didn't sell out, fair enough having a crap refund policy (hey they are there to make money), but with virtually all races being well over subscribed, surely they can do the right thing these days and have a reasonable refund policy and just resell the entry slot?

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:48

Post #35 of 82 Views: 2649

I dunno... that leaves the door open to all sorts of womanly reasons to get a refund - like that time of month, or a broken nail.
;-)

seriously, i just think that the whole system is f*cked. While this seems particularly egregious, the plus side is that at least it's a good event that's making you miss it, rather than just a plain ol' injury or illness. I like the idea of rolling refunds, but really, I just wish that these races would set up a decent legit system of exchanging bids.

And, of course, mazel tov! here's hoping that your conditioning makes the pregnancy, delivery, and recovery that much easier.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:51

Post #36 of 82 Views: 2639

In Reply To:

military deployment - I would hope on this one that they would refund the money if the person was sent to a war zone.

Agreed - this should be an exception.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:52

Post #37 of 82 Views: 2635

The policy will change when it makes business sense for WTC to change that policy, they won't change it at their cost to please their customers that still sign up for their races. The day will come when they have to change their business model and revenue expectations but nothing will happen before then.

WTC will have to change their policy when competition of other race series reduces their profits, or when a significantly amount of their customers demand so. Not by words but by their actions which means not signing up. Nothing will change before then. Why would they when they can make more money overselling the races compared to selling the actual race/participation spots available. Sure, on paper they could make money reselling those slots at a "profit" when somebody cancels but I believe it is much more profitable to them to oversell knowing the percentage of people that will never show up on race day. Hey, if you want to change their policy, sign up and encourage EVERYBODY that signed up to actually show up come race day ;)

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:53

Post #38 of 82 Views: 2632

Yes.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [bmcmaster11] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:54

Post #39 of 82 Views: 2632

of course this comes from another employee of the public sector....made possible with government debt spending...people here seriously need a reality check.

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [bmcmaster11] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:56

Post #40 of 82 Views: 2625

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

military deployment - I would hope on this one that they would refund the money if the person was sent to a war zone.

Agreed - this should be an exception.

Of course, one does CHOOSE to join the military ;-)

[but I agree it should also be an exception, just not the only exception]

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [qqqq] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 12:57

Post #41 of 82 Views: 2620

With the recent PR fiasco's WTC has sufffered, a pre-emptive move would be a good idea, rather than them just turning into a reactionary apologetic mess! They need good PR right now, and a no-cost refund policy could do that i think.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [tridork] [ In reply to ]

kburnsgallagher

Nov 3, 10 13:19

Post #42 of 82 Views: 2582

What would be really interesting (and a demand probably exists for) is a third party (non-WTC) underwriter offering an IM entry insurance policy. I imagine it would be similar to travel/wedding insurance, where for a premium paid at the time of entry the third party would provide a full refund if you withdrew from the event for specified reasons (e.g. injury, pregnancy, illness). You could even pay a higher premium for a more expansive list of reasons for withdrawing (undertraining, etc.).

It seems like a decent money maker and its probably pretty easy for an actuary to figure out the percentage of no-shows and what the appropriate prive would be. I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened.

@kburnsgallagher
http://www.somerandomthursday.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kaburns1214] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:21

Post #43 of 82 Views: 2580

In Reply To:

What would be really interesting (and a demand probably exists for) is a third party (non-WTC) underwriter offering an IM entry insurance policy. I imagine it would be similar to travel/wedding insurance, where for a premium paid at the time of entry the third party would provide a full refund if you withdrew from the event for specified reasons (e.g. injury, pregnancy, illness). You could even pay a higher premium for a more expansive list of reasons for withdrawing (undertraining, etc.).

It seems like a decent money maker and its probably pretty easy for an actuary to figure out the percentage of no-shows and what the appropriate prive would be. I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened.

Awesome suggestion!

WTC are you actually listening?

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:21

Post #44 of 82 Views: 2580

I think there are only 2 reasonable ways to approach a refund policy.

1) 'No exceptions whatsoever'

2) 'Refunds for anyone who wants them'

If you try to put your policy somewhere in between, you will inevitably end up with a million arguments along the lines of 'well he/she got a refund, and my situation is OBVIOUSLY more deserving of a refund than theirs is, so I need one too!'. It would be completely unmanageable and a nightmare from a management perspective.

I'm not really a fan of WTC but this is one area where I think they get it right.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:25

Post #45 of 82 Views: 2568

I think they should definitely offer refunds for pregnancy, provided they can sell your slot to someone on a standby list.
actually they should offer refunds as a matter of course, its not like there's a shortage of participants.

persequetur vestra metas furiose

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:55

Post #46 of 82 Views: 2539

In Reply To:

I think they should definitely offer refunds for pregnancy.

IM South Africa offers insurance to purchase for its athletes.

Withdrawal Insurance (optional)
Ironman South Africa 2011 will againbe offering withdrawal insurance that will cover the athlete�s registration fees (subject to the conditions listed below). The cost of this insurance will be R 350 which can be selected on the entry form. This insurance will pay 100% of the registration fee back to the athlete until the 1st April 2011.
Conditions of Withdrawal:

Sudden severe illness* - such as heart problems, sugar diabetes, hypertension, mental illness requiring hospitalization, as long as the athlete is been diagnosed for the first time.
Injury* - as a result of training or accident that will stop the athletes from training for longer than 4 weeks.
Death or severe injury of family dependant* - if a family dependant is killed or severely injured requiring the athlete�s presence/attention. Family dependants are deemed to be the insured person�s spouse (or life partner living in the same household), children (stepchildren, sons and daughter- in-law, grandchildren), parents (step-parents, parents-in-law, grandparents) and siblings.
Pregnancy � if the pregnancy was not discovered until after the insured person has signed up for the Ironman. If the pregnancy was discovered prior to signing up for the Ironman, the nominal sum will only be refunded if severe complications arise in the pregnancy.
Substantial property damage � to the insured persons property at his/her place of residence as a result of nature (earthquake etc) or criminal offence committed by a third party, making the insured person presence necessary.

*Requires a doctor�s letter.
NOTE: �If the reason for withdrawal is one of the reasons listed above you are required to fill in the withdrawal form, attach all relevant documentation (doctor�s letters, insurance policies and/or letters from the police) and forward to IMSA office.
�If the reason for withdrawal is none of the above, normal withdrawal policy as described above will apply.

_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:55

Post #47 of 82 Views: 2539

In Reply To:

I think they should definitely offer refunds for pregnancy, provided they can sell your slot to someone on a standby list.
actually they should offer refunds as a matter of course, its not like there's a shortage of participants.

People keep saying this but where does the money come from? They sell ~700 slots that don't get used. If they stopped doing that, they would either need to slash their profit margin of make up the difference in the initial entry fee. I'm not sure jacking up the price would be a good PR move. It's really easy to suggest a big company slash it's margin to benefit the customers, but is that really practical? It would be a great PR move for Cervelo to drop all their prices by $1000. The unspoken assumption is the WTC is making too much money, but nobody knows that.

As someone that signs up and shows up, I like the price structure the way it is. To some extent, those that don't make the starting line are subsidizing my entry. I'm willing to accept that risk.

I do like the insurance idea, sounds like a good opportunity for an entrepreneurial Slowtwitcher. WTC doesn't have to be involved at all.

Thom

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:56

Post #48 of 82 Views: 2538

<< but should they make any additional considerations specifically related to pregnancy? <<

No.

The only exception they should make is military deployment.

Though a well thought out waiting list policy would be helpful. If races like the NYC Marathon can do it....

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 13:58

Post #49 of 82 Views: 2534

I think that they should have some sort of insurance for you to be able to get your money back. I'm seriously looking at doing a IM but I'm nervous to put all that money into it and then have something like a unplanned pregnancy take it away. Its not that I wouldn't be overjoyed with the fact that I was having a baby but there is always the chance for a female to get pregnant with birth control or without... Guys don't really have to worry about that. I'm just overwhelmed that everybody here thinks that every pregnancy is planned.. Even at my racing weight of 108 @ 5'6" there's a chance. The economy is changing and if the WTC doesn't do something out to be more economic friendly when it comes to refunds at some point people are going to turn their back on them.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:08

Post #50 of 82 Views: 2519

In Reply To:

I think they should definitely offer refunds for pregnancy, provided they can sell your slot to someone on a standby list.
actually they should offer refunds as a matter of course, its not like there's a shortage of participants.

If they did offer refunds to any-one that asked - can you imagine how hard the original sign-up would be? People would sign up for all of them and then just withdraw at some point later. Then the WTC would hear all the b_tching about people not being able to sign up.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:09

Post #51 of 82 Views: 2286

In Reply To:

military deployment - I would hope on this one that they would refund the money if the person was sent to a war zone.

Just to play devil's advocate--why should this be an exception? Assuming one argues that pregnancy is (by and large) a choice... isn't signing up for the military (reserves or otherwise) a choice as well?

mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:23

Post #52 of 82 Views: 2278

Anybody can always use a good PR but one always has to weigh the cost to benefit. I think WTC will implement such a refund policy. Not because they care about the people but because it makes financial sense to them. As long as the races fill out easily (in large part because the re-inflation of the credit bubble) they are better off by overbooking their events. Once the races no longer fill up to the extent they do it will make financial and business sense for them to implement such a policy in order to entice more people into signing up. Until that day comes, and it will, it would be absolutely stupid to implement such a refund policy.

How many WTC races are there? Let's say 25. Let's say on average they overbook by 200 for an average profit of just $200. That's a profit of $1M right there. Why would anybody leave that off the table? I know I was VERY conservative with my numbers here. They shouldn't forfeit that profit. As long as women still sign up while they are in the process of trying to get pregnant, knowing very well that they can't participate come race day and WTC can profit $350-500 from their stupidity they should book that profit. They'd be stupid not to.

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:40

Post #53 of 82 Views: 2261

Hey! CB... Good thread. Regarding baby stuff , if you Had come into our house after the ride last summer I could have shown you half of Babies' r' us in the living room. And we are just Grandparents!
Congrats !

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:52

Post #54 of 82 Views: 2248

Simple anwser: NO

If I were running WTC, There would not even be the 150 refund. You want in, sign up and thats it. Show or stay home race day. We produce a race and sell x entries period. I would not want to fool with exchanges and reselling entries, and neither does WTC.

Semper Fi

Motor, Suffer, Bonk

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [C5Torch6sp] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 14:57

Post #55 of 82 Views: 2243

Hey Frank!! I should have raided the BabiesRUs room is what I should have done! :) Surprisingly, that ride was my last outdoor ride...found out I was knocked up the day after! Been hanging out on my bike trainer watching The Biggest Loser. Starting to get lonely!!

Overall, very interesting opinions (minus qqqq's repetitive and condescending crap)...I've been thoroughly entertained today.

My opinions lie somewhere in the middle - I want WTC to change the policy because I think it's a bad policy...but if I were in their shoes and it was MY money on the line, I probably wouldn't want to either. When you bring in all the choices we make - pregnancy, military, riding on unsafe roads, overtraining, etc - it adds a level of complexity that I wouldn't want to deal with either regarding refunds/risk (but that's why I'm not in insurance). But I think a change needs to happen...we will see what the future holds.

When it comes to MY money, yeah, I want my money back. There's a lot I can do with $630! But in the big scheme of things, it's just not a big deal...it's an interesting debate to say the least.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 15:15

Post #56 of 82 Views: 2230

With the exception of some units or a crisis there is usually enough advance notice of deployment that this isn't necessary. Schedules change, but for the most part I would suggest a lot of the military knows where they will be over the next 6-8 months.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 15:47

Post #57 of 82 Views: 2214

In Reply To:

With the exception of some units or a crisis there is usually enough advance notice of deployment that this isn't necessary. Schedules change, but for the most part I would suggest a lot of the military knows where they will be over the next 6-8 months.

Yes they may know where they may be in 6-8 months but you have to sign up a year in advance. I wasn't talking about normal deployment just deployment to a war zone. Normal deployments you still may be able to get back for the race.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [mmrocker13] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 15:53

Post #58 of 82 Views: 2210

In Reply To:

Just to play devil's advocate--why should this be an exception? Assuming one argues that pregnancy is (by and large) a choice... isn't signing up for the military (reserves or otherwise) a choice as well?

I am missing Florida right now for other reasons and don't expect nor asked for a refund. I don't really know if anyone in the military has ever missed an Ironman due to a deployment to a war zone. I just think that small subset deserve special consideration due to their service on behalf of America. If not a refund then maybe a free entry into another race. Once again I am not talking about normal deployments but deployments into a war zone.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 15:54

Post #59 of 82 Views: 2210

I think they shoud change the rules for that. I think they should make you sign a form declaring that if you get knocked up, they triple bill your account on the grounds of the fact that there are allready way to many children on this earth and getting pregnant is a poor decision.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 16:24

Post #60 of 82 Views: 2189

No. It's kind of like getting hurt. Can't always plan it.

If you knew you were trying to get preggo and signed up for a race in a year, how did you possibly expect to be doing the race in the first place?

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Fastyellow] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 16:43

Post #61 of 82 Views: 2174

In Reply To:

Nope...I don't think pregnancy is any different from any other life circumstance that might inhibit your ability to participate.

I agree.

It can be unfair if unexpected circumstamces come up when you are planning a race a full year in advance, but wel all take this risk. Stuff comes up like:

1. Illness.
2. Injury.
3. Job Loss.
4. Pregnancy.
5. Deployment.
6. Move/new job.

etc, etc.

It would be very tricky for WTC to try to pick and choose which are the more legit excuses.

btw congrats on the news! Truthfully your news trumps doing an silly ole' ironman anyway :-)

Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [slidell4life] [ In reply to ]

LuckyMe

Nov 3, 10 16:51

Post #62 of 82 Views: 2166

In Reply To:

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [aggie03] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 17:10

Post #63 of 82 Views: 2156

Also, if that amount of money is significant enought to whine about, than people should not have signed up for the race in the first place because they are broke.

Semper Fi

Motor, Suffer, Bonk

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 17:27

Post #64 of 82 Views: 2146

Tom, I got back from last deployment a little over a year ago and can expect to go again anytime in the next year. With the IA program where the NAVY is augmenting the ARMY and the decrease in force with the continued hostilities and then the humanitarian missions life is much more unpredictable then it was 15 years ago. That's why I haven't signed up for an Ironman since 2007. The nonbranded races are cheaper and I can sign up closer to the race.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Flat Tire] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 18:26

Post #65 of 82 Views: 2121

In Reply To:

Tom, I got back from last deployment a little over a year ago and can expect to go again anytime in the next year. With the IA program where the NAVY is augmenting the ARMY and the decrease in force with the continued hostilities and then the humanitarian missions life is much more unpredictable then it was 15 years ago. That's why I haven't signed up for an Ironman since 2007. The nonbranded races are cheaper and I can sign up closer to the race.

So the people that DESERVE special treatment are the ones not asking for it. Go figure. Thanks for protecting our vast freedoms and be safe on your next deployment.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 18:52

Post #66 of 82 Views: 2103

Quote:

I just think that small subset deserve special consideration due to their service on behalf of America.

At the risk of sounding ungrateful... If they are doing a service on behalf of the country, why burden a private company with compensating them for loses. The military should cover it, that way the burden falls on "America". If WTC wants to do that,fine, but it seems like an unfair expectation.

Thom

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Thom] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 19:17

Post #67 of 82 Views: 2084

In Reply To:

Quote:

I just think that small subset deserve special consideration due to their service on behalf of America.

At the risk of sounding ungrateful... If they are doing a service on behalf of the country, why burden a private company with compensating them for loses. The military should cover it, that way the burden falls on "America". If WTC wants to do that,fine, but it seems like an unfair expectation.

Thom

x2. While certainly a good reason not to be able to train/race, I don't think it's worthy of a refund any more than anything else. In this day and age, military life is something people sign up for, knowing full well the toll it takes on normal life.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kaburns1214] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 20:18

Post #68 of 82 Views: 2061

In Reply To:

What would be really interesting (and a demand probably exists for) is a third party (non-WTC) underwriter offering an IM entry insurance policy. I imagine it would be similar to travel/wedding insurance, where for a premium paid at the time of entry the third party would provide a full refund if you withdrew from the event for specified reasons (e.g. injury, pregnancy, illness). You could even pay a higher premium for a more expansive list of reasons for withdrawing (undertraining, etc.).

It seems like a decent money maker and its probably pretty easy for an actuary to figure out the percentage of no-shows and what the appropriate prive would be. I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened.

Very interesting suggestion, but I have to ask... you would really pay $100 to insure against losing $450? Sounds like more of a hedge against a probable outcome than insurance against an improbable one.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [Lilac J] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 22:16

Post #69 of 82 Views: 2041

Military deployment should not be a refundable excuse just like pregnancy should not. This is coming from a Marine who had deployed twice to war zones. I knew in advance I would be going. Even if I didn't...shit happens. I do not think many service members want more special considerations I feel like we get enough as it is.

WTC owes me nothing.

-Alex

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kaburns1214] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 10 23:49

Post #70 of 82 Views: 2022

"I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened. "

Your insurance agent must be very happy with your business ;)

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [qqqq] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 8:09

Post #71 of 82 Views: 1942

I just have to laugh at all the arguments supporting a U.S. based companies inability to organize itself sufficiently in order to provide a reasonable (not necessarily unlimited) amount of its customers some sort of refund under predetermined circumstances.

Being a Marine myself, and knowing how hard I worked for the pittance I was paid; you bet your ass I'd like the option of a refund for a fee that would equal almost a fifth of my base pay. Even if you calculate danger pay at the max 35%, that's a lot of patrol time to just toss away.

Back to the subject at large, If ANY corporation/business finds itself structured so poorly that it cannot provide a refund for services not rendered, and also have a backup plan in place for it to renew that lost revenue stream with some alternate but legitimate means; then there is an obvious flaw present. Anyone in the organization could do a little research and see how many potential participants DON'T sign up for any given race/race series because of the potential loss of all entrance fees, they could also determine how many would sign up/pay up to go on a secondary list that becomes available after the initial number of race slots is exhausted.

There are ways to make something like this work, and there is not reason to raise fees to do so. To argue that it cant be improved without cost increases is also just dumb, since there is zero proof of that. To argue against improving the business model because some portion of the current client base claims it to be unnecessary is also dumb, because you need to be listening to those potential customers who "for some reason" are remaining just outside of your current client base.

persequetur vestra metas furiose

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 9:26

Post #72 of 82 Views: 1905

You obviously don't understand business.

When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [qqqq] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 9:48

Post #73 of 82 Views: 1888

That's incredibly funny!!

persequetur vestra metas furiose

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [E_moto] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 9:57

Post #74 of 82 Views: 1882

Typically a company provides (1) goods, (2) services, or (3) goods and services. How does one set the price for a good? That is pretty easy. You take the cost to manufacture and distribute the good, add a profit margin, and get the price.

How does one set the price for a service? To a certain extent, you look at the cost of providing that service, but, there is no real tangible factor for determining the value of one's service. What is a service worth? It is worth what others are willng to pay.

WTC provides more a service than a good. So, it is pretty simple for WTC to set the price -- it is what the public is willing to pay. Despite lack of refunds and despite high prices, WTC events continue to sell out. Why in the world would WTC do anything to change? It would make poor business sense to do so.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [LuckyMe] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 9:57

Post #75 of 82 Views: 1882

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Yep. I think they should quit overselling, allow for half a refund and auction the now available slots proceeds to some local charity(s).

So if I pay $600 and cancel(and let's say they put a time limit, you need to cancel 60 or 90 days in advance), WTC gives me $300 back, puts the slot up on ebay and pockets the first $300 and the rest goes to some local homelss shelter, boys club, or whatever.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kblahetka] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 10:00

Post #76 of 82 Views: 1155

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Yep. I think they should quit overselling, allow for half a refund and auction the now available slots proceeds to some local charity(s).

So if I pay $600 and cancel(and let's say they put a time limit, you need to cancel 60 or 90 days in advance), WTC gives me $300 back, puts the slot up on ebay and pockets the first $300 and the rest goes to some local homelss shelter, boys club, or whatever.

There is a cost to WTC to do that. They already have your money. Why would they do that?

WTC is a business. The point of a business is (generally) to make money. Not sure why people think of WTC as anything other than a business out to make money.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 10:02

Post #77 of 82 Views: 1152

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Yep. I think they should quit overselling, allow for half a refund and auction the now available slots proceeds to some local charity(s).

So if I pay $600 and cancel(and let's say they put a time limit, you need to cancel 60 or 90 days in advance), WTC gives me $300 back, puts the slot up on ebay and pockets the first $300 and the rest goes to some local homelss shelter, boys club, or whatever.

There is a cost to WTC to do that. They already have your money. Why would they do that?

WTC is a business. The point of a business is (generally) to make money. Not sure why people think of WTC as anything other than a business out to make money.

Cost is pretty minimal. Since they have been having a PR nightmare lately it may help their image a bit.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kblahetka] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 10:31

Post #78 of 82 Views: 1140

Quote:

Cost is pretty minimal. Since they have been having a PR nightmare lately it may help their image a bit.

Do you think the PR nightmares will keep the events from selling out.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [JSA] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 10:35

Post #79 of 82 Views: 1134

In Reply To:

Quote:

Cost is pretty minimal. Since they have been having a PR nightmare lately it may help their image a bit.

Do you think the PR nightmares will keep the events from selling out.

Not at all, but they must seem to as they backed off one program and are giving free entries to races to deal with another issue.

I think really the full distance races aren't at all in jepordy. People want to do a full IM and have it be called an IM. The 70.3 series is another story. Do these really sell out fast? No. The IM branding doesn't carry as much weight as it isn't an IM distance.

I think that they have enough money tied into those races as well as make enough on those races to try and keep their brand name out of bad press.

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kblahetka] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 10:46

Post #80 of 82 Views: 1126

Quote:

Not at all, but they must seem to as they backed off one program and are giving free entries to races to deal with another issue.

I think really the full distance races aren't at all in jepordy. People want to do a full IM and have it be called an IM. The 70.3 series is another story. Do these really sell out fast? No. The IM branding doesn't carry as much weight as it isn't an IM distance.

I think that they have enough money tied into those races as well as make enough on those races to try and keep their brand name out of bad press.

WTC is a lot like Apple. Every once in a while they have a PR nightmare (e.g., the iPhone 4 "reception issue") or come out with an under-achiever (e.g., the iPad). Occassionally, they will do something like throw you a free phone case, but, you never seem to be able to find their top end items on the shelves, especially when new ones come out.

I do not see either for-profit company altering their models in any way.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [kblahetka] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 11:04

Post #81 of 82 Views: 1115

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

At the very least they should make the race entry transferable. Why not allow you to sell your race entry to another triathlete?

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Yep. I think they should quit overselling, allow for half a refund and auction the now available slots proceeds to some local charity(s).

So if I pay $600 and cancel(and let's say they put a time limit, you need to cancel 60 or 90 days in advance), WTC gives me $300 back, puts the slot up on ebay and pockets the first $300 and the rest goes to some local homelss shelter, boys club, or whatever.

There is a cost to WTC to do that. They already have your money. Why would they do that?

WTC is a business. The point of a business is (generally) to make money. Not sure why people think of WTC as anything other than a business out to make money.

Cost is pretty minimal. Since they have been having a PR nightmare lately it may help their image a bit.

The cost isn't just financial. It's also to the experience of the race itself. The business model apparently counts on people not showing up. If everyone who signed up showed up, the race would be even more overcrowded (you think it's bad now...) and the quality would go down.

Selling out (and the fear of a race you want to do selling out) is a huge cachet for these races. Look at the Boston Marathon the past couple of years. Four years ago, you could sign up in February. Last year it sold out in November. This year it sold out in 8 hours. It's not because so many more people want to do Boston. It's because they were afraid of getting locked out. The moment that fear goes away, well then either a) it doesn't sell out until late and a higher percentage of signees actually run the race or b) it doesn't sell out at all (and again, a higher percentage actually show).

Either way, it's bad for business.

Last edited by: JoeO: Nov 4, 10 11:05

Re: Should WTC have a different refund policy for pregnancy? [becker62888] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 10 13:53

Post #82 of 82 Views: 1094

In Reply To:

Military deployment should not be a refundable excuse just like pregnancy should not. This is coming from a Marine who had deployed twice to war zones. I knew in advance I would be going. Even if I didn't...shit happens. I do not think many service members want more special considerations I feel like we get enough as it is.

WTC owes me nothing.

So you are saying if Ironman offered a refund that you would turn it down? That is mighty nice of you but maybe a low ranking person perhaps would like a refund.

The USAF marathon, Bismarck Marathon, Paavo Nurmi Marathon, Grandma's Marathon and probably several more have this refund policy. "Refunds will be given to individuals who have deployment orders that will prevent them from participating in the marathon. The following are the requirements for a refund: Copy of deployment orders" That is the only refund they give out.

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