No such thing as a butt baby

Perhaps a better refund policy, and some kind of wait list would be the answer instead of an "Ironman Access Program"?

I actually think she should get a refund. Same reason I believe women should get paid maternity leave from work.

It's not like they be able won't fill the empty slot.

^^Wow, there's potential for a great joke there, but I have too much of a head cold to grab it.

As for the fathers, well they COULD still choose to race after their partner/wife had the kid, but at least they have the choice. I don't think the OP really will have the same option.

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

What reason is that?

The refund policy leaves a lot to be desired, particularly when demand waaaay outstrips supply.

You knew the policy when you entered

Pregnancy ain't no accident. Not like a bus ran you over and you woke up pregnant! (I'm assuming you weren't raped, based on you post)

No special consideration required.

The whole policy DOES need to be revamped however. But not just for pregnancy

Congrats and I hope everything goes well with your future ironman (aka baby)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Oh yes, and I forgot to say Mazel Tov!

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

military deployment - I would hope on this one that they would refund the money if the person was sent to a war zone.

Some IM branded races do have a rolling refund scale. IM Swiss for example gives 75, 50, and 25% based on when you cancel. If they implemented this across the board they might appease more athletes. Every venue is different, however, and they do have to plan for those differences between venues, so I do understand different policies for different races.

Or a really bad blister. That's gotta be worthy of a full refund? Maybe a note from your mum?

Either they (WTC and all RD's) need to have a no refund policy, or a decent refund policy that covers everything including a note from mummy.All or nothing, otherwise ST'ers will just whine about where the line gets drawn.

Back in the day, when races didn't sell out, fair enough having a crap refund policy (hey they are there to make money), but with virtually all races being well over subscribed, surely they can do the right thing these days and have a reasonable refund policy and just resell the entry slot?

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I dunno... that leaves the door open to all sorts of womanly reasons to get a refund - like that time of month, or a broken nail.
;-)

seriously, i just think that the whole system is f*cked. While this seems particularly egregious, the plus side is that at least it's a good event that's making you miss it, rather than just a plain ol' injury or illness. I like the idea of rolling refunds, but really, I just wish that these races would set up a decent legit system of exchanging bids.

And, of course, mazel tov! here's hoping that your conditioning makes the pregnancy, delivery, and recovery that much easier.

Agreed - this should be an exception.

The policy will change when it makes business sense for WTC to change that policy, they won't change it at their cost to please their customers that still sign up for their races. The day will come when they have to change their business model and revenue expectations but nothing will happen before then.

WTC will have to change their policy when competition of other race series reduces their profits, or when a significantly amount of their customers demand so. Not by words but by their actions which means not signing up. Nothing will change before then. Why would they when they can make more money overselling the races compared to selling the actual race/participation spots available. Sure, on paper they could make money reselling those slots at a "profit" when somebody cancels but I believe it is much more profitable to them to oversell knowing the percentage of people that will never show up on race day. Hey, if you want to change their policy, sign up and encourage EVERYBODY that signed up to actually show up come race day ;)

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When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Yes.

of course this comes from another employee of the public sector....made possible with government debt spending...people here seriously need a reality check.

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When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Of course, one does CHOOSE to join the military ;-)

[but I agree it should also be an exception, just not the only exception]

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Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

With the recent PR fiasco's WTC has sufffered, a pre-emptive move would be a good idea, rather than them just turning into a reactionary apologetic mess! They need good PR right now, and a no-cost refund policy could do that i think.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

What would be really interesting (and a demand probably exists for) is a third party (non-WTC) underwriter offering an IM entry insurance policy. I imagine it would be similar to travel/wedding insurance, where for a premium paid at the time of entry the third party would provide a full refund if you withdrew from the event for specified reasons (e.g. injury, pregnancy, illness). You could even pay a higher premium for a more expansive list of reasons for withdrawing (undertraining, etc.).

It seems like a decent money maker and its probably pretty easy for an actuary to figure out the percentage of no-shows and what the appropriate prive would be. I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened.

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@kburnsgallagher
http://www.somerandomthursday.com

Awesome suggestion!

WTC are you actually listening?

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I think there are only 2 reasonable ways to approach a refund policy.

1) 'No exceptions whatsoever'

2) 'Refunds for anyone who wants them'

If you try to put your policy somewhere in between, you will inevitably end up with a million arguments along the lines of 'well he/she got a refund, and my situation is OBVIOUSLY more deserving of a refund than theirs is, so I need one too!'. It would be completely unmanageable and a nightmare from a management perspective.

I'm not really a fan of WTC but this is one area where I think they get it right.

I think they should definitely offer refunds for pregnancy, provided they can sell your slot to someone on a standby list.
actually they should offer refunds as a matter of course, its not like there's a shortage of participants.

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

IM South Africa offers insurance to purchase for its athletes.

Withdrawal Insurance (optional)
Ironman South Africa 2011 will againbe offering withdrawal insurance that will cover the athlete’s registration fees (subject to the conditions listed below). The cost of this insurance will be R 350 which can be selected on the entry form. This insurance will pay 100% of the registration fee back to the athlete until the 1st April 2011.
Conditions of Withdrawal:

1. Sudden severe illness* - such as heart problems, sugar diabetes, hypertension, mental illness requiring hospitalization, as long as the athlete is been diagnosed for the first time.
2. Injury* - as a result of training or accident that will stop the athletes from training for longer than 4 weeks.
3. Death or severe injury of family dependant* - if a family dependant is killed or severely injured requiring the athlete’s presence/attention. Family dependants are deemed to be the insured person’s spouse (or life partner living in the same household), children (stepchildren, sons and daughter- in-law, grandchildren), parents (step-parents, parents-in-law, grandparents) and siblings.
4. Pregnancy – if the pregnancy was not discovered until after the insured person has signed up for the Ironman. If the pregnancy was discovered prior to signing up for the Ironman, the nominal sum will only be refunded if severe complications arise in the pregnancy.
5. Substantial property damage – to the insured persons property at his/her place of residence as a result of nature (earthquake etc) or criminal offence committed by a third party, making the insured person presence necessary.

*Requires a doctor’s letter.
NOTE: •If the reason for withdrawal is one of the reasons listed above you are required to fill in the withdrawal form, attach all relevant documentation (doctor’s letters, insurance policies and/or letters from the police) and forward to IMSA office.
•If the reason for withdrawal is none of the above, normal withdrawal policy as described above will apply.

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_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

People keep saying this but where does the money come from? They sell ~700 slots that don't get used. If they stopped doing that, they would either need to slash their profit margin of make up the difference in the initial entry fee. I'm not sure jacking up the price would be a good PR move. It's really easy to suggest a big company slash it's margin to benefit the customers, but is that really practical? It would be a great PR move for Cervelo to drop all their prices by $1000. The unspoken assumption is the WTC is making too much money, but nobody knows that.

As someone that signs up and shows up, I like the price structure the way it is. To some extent, those that don't make the starting line are subsidizing my entry. I'm willing to accept that risk.

I do like the insurance idea, sounds like a good opportunity for an entrepreneurial Slowtwitcher. WTC doesn't have to be involved at all.

Thom

<< but should they make any additional considerations specifically related to pregnancy? <<

No.

The only exception they should make is military deployment.

Though a well thought out waiting list policy would be helpful. If races like the NYC Marathon can do it....

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I think that they should have some sort of insurance for you to be able to get your money back. I'm seriously looking at doing a IM but I'm nervous to put all that money into it and then have something like a unplanned pregnancy take it away. Its not that I wouldn't be overjoyed with the fact that I was having a baby but there is always the chance for a female to get pregnant with birth control or without... Guys don't really have to worry about that. I'm just overwhelmed that everybody here thinks that every pregnancy is planned.. Even at my racing weight of 108 @ 5'6" there's a chance. The economy is changing and if the WTC doesn't do something out to be more economic friendly when it comes to refunds at some point people are going to turn their back on them.

If they did offer refunds to any-one that asked - can you imagine how hard the original sign-up would be? People would sign up for all of them and then just withdraw at some point later. Then the WTC would hear all the b_tching about people not being able to sign up.