Just to play devil's advocate--why should this be an exception? Assuming one argues that pregnancy is (by and large) a choice... isn't signing up for the military (reserves or otherwise) a choice as well?

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Anybody can always use a good PR but one always has to weigh the cost to benefit. I think WTC will implement such a refund policy. Not because they care about the people but because it makes financial sense to them. As long as the races fill out easily (in large part because the re-inflation of the credit bubble) they are better off by overbooking their events. Once the races no longer fill up to the extent they do it will make financial and business sense for them to implement such a policy in order to entice more people into signing up. Until that day comes, and it will, it would be absolutely stupid to implement such a refund policy.

How many WTC races are there? Let's say 25. Let's say on average they overbook by 200 for an average profit of just $200. That's a profit of $1M right there. Why would anybody leave that off the table? I know I was VERY conservative with my numbers here. They shouldn't forfeit that profit. As long as women still sign up while they are in the process of trying to get pregnant, knowing very well that they can't participate come race day and WTC can profit $350-500 from their stupidity they should book that profit. They'd be stupid not to.

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When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

Hey! CB... Good thread. Regarding baby stuff , if you Had come into our house after the ride last summer I could have shown you half of Babies' r' us in the living room. And we are just Grandparents!
Congrats !

Simple anwser: NO

If I were running WTC, There would not even be the 150 refund. You want in, sign up and thats it. Show or stay home race day. We produce a race and sell x entries period. I would not want to fool with exchanges and reselling entries, and neither does WTC.

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Semper Fi

Motor, Suffer, Bonk

Hey Frank!! I should have raided the BabiesRUs room is what I should have done! :) Surprisingly, that ride was my last outdoor ride...found out I was knocked up the day after! Been hanging out on my bike trainer watching The Biggest Loser. Starting to get lonely!!

Overall, very interesting opinions (minus qqqq's repetitive and condescending crap)...I've been thoroughly entertained today.

My opinions lie somewhere in the middle - I want WTC to change the policy because I think it's a bad policy...but if I were in their shoes and it was MY money on the line, I probably wouldn't want to either. When you bring in all the choices we make - pregnancy, military, riding on unsafe roads, overtraining, etc - it adds a level of complexity that I wouldn't want to deal with either regarding refunds/risk (but that's why I'm not in insurance). But I think a change needs to happen...we will see what the future holds.

When it comes to MY money, yeah, I want my money back. There's a lot I can do with $630! But in the big scheme of things, it's just not a big deal...it's an interesting debate to say the least.

With the exception of some units or a crisis there is usually enough advance notice of deployment that this isn't necessary. Schedules change, but for the most part I would suggest a lot of the military knows where they will be over the next 6-8 months.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Yes they may know where they may be in 6-8 months but you have to sign up a year in advance. I wasn't talking about normal deployment just deployment to a war zone. Normal deployments you still may be able to get back for the race.

I am missing Florida right now for other reasons and don't expect nor asked for a refund. I don't really know if anyone in the military has ever missed an Ironman due to a deployment to a war zone. I just think that small subset deserve special consideration due to their service on behalf of America. If not a refund then maybe a free entry into another race. Once again I am not talking about normal deployments but deployments into a war zone.

I think they shoud change the rules for that. I think they should make you sign a form declaring that if you get knocked up, they triple bill your account on the grounds of the fact that there are allready way to many children on this earth and getting pregnant is a poor decision.

No. It's kind of like getting hurt. Can't always plan it.

If you knew you were trying to get preggo and signed up for a race in a year, how did you possibly expect to be doing the race in the first place?

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I agree.

It can be unfair if unexpected circumstamces come up when you are planning a race a full year in advance, but wel all take this risk. Stuff comes up like:

1. Illness.
2. Injury.
3. Job Loss.
4. Pregnancy.
5. Deployment.
6. Move/new job.


etc, etc.

It would be very tricky for WTC to try to pick and choose which are the more legit excuses.

btw congrats on the news! Truthfully your news trumps doing an silly ole' ironman anyway :-)

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Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

Because then you would have opportunists buying up all the slots they can and then selling them at even more ridiculous prices, thus ruining the sport for a lot of people.

Also, if that amount of money is significant enought to whine about, than people should not have signed up for the race in the first place because they are broke.

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Semper Fi

Motor, Suffer, Bonk

Tom, I got back from last deployment a little over a year ago and can expect to go again anytime in the next year. With the IA program where the NAVY is augmenting the ARMY and the decrease in force with the continued hostilities and then the humanitarian missions life is much more unpredictable then it was 15 years ago. That's why I haven't signed up for an Ironman since 2007. The nonbranded races are cheaper and I can sign up closer to the race.

So the people that DESERVE special treatment are the ones not asking for it. Go figure. Thanks for protecting our vast freedoms and be safe on your next deployment.

Quote:

I just think that small subset deserve special consideration due to their service on behalf of America.

At the risk of sounding ungrateful... If they are doing a service on behalf of the country, why burden a private company with compensating them for loses. The military should cover it, that way the burden falls on "America". If WTC wants to do that,fine, but it seems like an unfair expectation.

Thom

x2. While certainly a good reason not to be able to train/race, I don't think it's worthy of a refund any more than anything else. In this day and age, military life is something people sign up for, knowing full well the toll it takes on normal life.

Very interesting suggestion, but I have to ask... you would really pay $100 to insure against losing $450? Sounds like more of a hedge against a probable outcome than insurance against an improbable one.

Military deployment should not be a refundable excuse just like pregnancy should not. This is coming from a Marine who had deployed twice to war zones. I knew in advance I would be going. Even if I didn't...shit happens. I do not think many service members want more special considerations I feel like we get enough as it is.

WTC owes me nothing.

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-Alex

"I know I'd pay an additional $100 or so at the time of entry if I knew it would guarantee a full refund if something happened. "

Your insurance agent must be very happy with your business ;)

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When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

I just have to laugh at all the arguments supporting a U.S. based companies inability to organize itself sufficiently in order to provide a reasonable (not necessarily unlimited) amount of its customers some sort of refund under predetermined circumstances.

Being a Marine myself, and knowing how hard I worked for the pittance I was paid; you bet your ass I'd like the option of a refund for a fee that would equal almost a fifth of my base pay. Even if you calculate danger pay at the max 35%, that's a lot of patrol time to just toss away.

Back to the subject at large, If ANY corporation/business finds itself structured so poorly that it cannot provide a refund for services not rendered, and also have a backup plan in place for it to renew that lost revenue stream with some alternate but legitimate means; then there is an obvious flaw present. Anyone in the organization could do a little research and see how many potential participants DON'T sign up for any given race/race series because of the potential loss of all entrance fees, they could also determine how many would sign up/pay up to go on a secondary list that becomes available after the initial number of race slots is exhausted.

There are ways to make something like this work, and there is not reason to raise fees to do so. To argue that it cant be improved without cost increases is also just dumb, since there is zero proof of that. To argue against improving the business model because some portion of the current client base claims it to be unnecessary is also dumb, because you need to be listening to those potential customers who "for some reason" are remaining just outside of your current client base.

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

You obviously don't understand business.

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When they kick at your front door, How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
Paul Simonon

That's incredibly funny!!

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

Typically a company provides (1) goods, (2) services, or (3) goods and services. How does one set the price for a good? That is pretty easy. You take the cost to manufacture and distribute the good, add a profit margin, and get the price.

How does one set the price for a service? To a certain extent, you look at the cost of providing that service, but, there is no real tangible factor for determining the value of one's service. What is a service worth? It is worth what others are willng to pay.

WTC provides more a service than a good. So, it is pretty simple for WTC to set the price -- it is what the public is willing to pay. Despite lack of refunds and despite high prices, WTC events continue to sell out. Why in the world would WTC do anything to change? It would make poor business sense to do so.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yep. I think they should quit overselling, allow for half a refund and auction the now available slots proceeds to some local charity(s).

So if I pay $600 and cancel(and let's say they put a time limit, you need to cancel 60 or 90 days in advance), WTC gives me $300 back, puts the slot up on ebay and pockets the first $300 and the rest goes to some local homelss shelter, boys club, or whatever.