Excellent training wheels. Reasonable light and stiff, but not very aero (read high spoke count). They do have actual Zipp hubs which I like a lot. I think DT Swiss makes the rims, Sapim Spokes, Zipp hubs - what's not to like?

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

What he said. Great wheels.

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"....No longer easy on the eyes but these wrinkles masterfully dusguise the youthful boy below."~Death Cab for Cutie

http://www.a1cyclery.com

Not such a good wheel. Too light for everyday training, hubs not really heavy duty, spokes tend to twist.

I totally disagree with the previous post. I ride mine daily as training wheels and they are excellent. They take bad roads well and spin very smooth. They are actually better than some so called race wheels on the market. Do not hesitate to ride them everyday. I love my wheels I used to ride shimano dura ace and these are much better imho.

I've owned a LOT of wheels. These are among the very best. I absolutely love them.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

They are awesome. I was pretty bummed when I found out they couldn't build them into a PowerTap wheel. They were wonderful training wheels. I still ride them around for my easy spins when I don't worry about power.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Why can't they build the PT hub into them?

The hub specs are totally different on a PT hub. Technically, they *could*, but they don't actually carry the right length of spokes (and you can can't cut and thread sapim cx-ray spokes, since they are bladed). So basically, they don't have the right info in terms of what spokes are required, etc. to build up the PT hub into the wheel. I was disappointed, but I was also impressed by how thorough they were in explaining to me why they couldn't do it. I ended up with a set of 404 clinchers, which aside from being "that guy on race wheels" all the time, I love. The 404's are actually more comfortable over rough pavement than the CSC's. I was surprised, but it's a function of the spoke angle and also the way they build the rims. So I can't complain.

I'm pushing them to make a CSC-powertap pair (since if they set out to do so, they could stock the spokes, etc.), since I think the CSC wheels are awesome. But I think Zipp sells surprisingly few of them, partially because I think people don't realize how nice they are, but also because of price. Triathletes don't want to spend $800 on what they perceive as training wheels. They are great all around road-race wheels, but they certainly aren't aero. As wheels, they are competitive with Mavic Kysirium SLs, etc. But I don't know that high-end box-section wheels are really desirable to triathletes. I think people want the cheapest possible training wheels so they can spend as much as possible on race wheels. That seems to be the mentality. Having ridden on really nice training wheels for a few years now, I'm certainly of the opinion that a good set is worth it. Most of your miles are logged on your trainers.

So that's the long answer (plus some random thoughts)...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

But I don't know that high-end box-section wheels are really desirable to triathletes. I think people want the cheapest possible training wheels so they can spend as much as possible on race wheels

Er, have you read this forum? Half the posters want to spend more on their training wheels than the other half want to spend on race wheels. Ksyrium SLs are ten a penny round here as crappy training wheels.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Are you no longer riding with an SRM?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Thanks for the detailed reply. It makes much more sense when explained thoroughly.

My reason for asking is because I'm very interested in those wheels as road racing wheels. I don't think Zipp realize what a beauty of a wheelset they have in those wheels. I hope they aren't planning on doing away with them when CSC dissolves next year.

I think the reason that they don't sell more of them is a marketing thing. They are billed as "training" wheels, and also carry the CSC moniker. Those are two things that can certainly steer people away from an $800 wheelset individually. Combined, I'm sure it's costing them sales.

If they do make a set with a 2.4 wireless hub, I'll be buying them for sure.

I have a pair of 404 clinchers with PT for training, and one of the new Zipp powertap clincher discs for racing. :)

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

im no pro so i guess its gonna be hard for me to train with 404 clinchers with the PT... but my question is.. i got existing 404 clinchers which i use for racing and AM Classic 420's for training... where do you suggest i install my PTs? 404 clinchers durable enough? Buy a wheelset in the middle of the 404s and the 420s with regards to performance and durability?

Depending on your roads, 404 clinchers can be durable enough to train on. In your situation, I would be willing to train on them on the roads where I live.

I'd say it depends on what type of roads you train. If they are in relatively good shape, the 404s can be used for just about anything. A lot of people forget they are used in CX. The Zipp rims are top notch. Spoke count and wheel build are aldo crucial for determining durability.

For your PT, you could go ahead and build it into your 420s. Use your 420s training, then get a disc cover for the rear PT/420 combo and pair it with your front 404 for a very nice race setup. That way you've got power for both training and racing.

And whatever you do, don't forget that an experienced and competent wheel builder can make a huge difference in the quality of your wheels.

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

They will be renamed as Zipp Slipstream's.....................better name in my mind......................

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http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/

The guys from Zipp were adamant that the 404 clinchers would hold up to the abuse of being my daily drivers. The wheels are not fragile by any means. It's just the issue of what happens if you have the sort of mishap that would destroy any rim. A Mavic OpenPro hoop is a LOT cheaper than a Zipp 440 hoop. That's the big difference.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I used zipp csc as my trainers and crit wheels. I put about 5k miles on them last year. eventually they gave up the ghost and i got a new one under crash replacement. I am 240-250 lbs and i am not easy on equipment.

These wheels are plenty strong for daily drivers and for racing. I like mine alot. I have a bunch of zipp stuff and can not complain about any of it.

I trained on my 404 tubulars until a 2 flat ride cost $190 kind of a bummer.

best
k