The goal is to run 10 800's at your goal marathon time.

So if your goal marathon is 3:10:00 you try and get to the point where you can run 10 800's in 3:10.

So, you can start with 6 at 3:10 and work your way up to 10, etc.

It's been reported to work well, but the system breaks down once you start getting really quick. Like 2:20:00. :).

For some reason, I have always been able to run marathons 10-15 minutes faster than my so called "yasso pace". And its not because I am better over "long distances" than short. I grew up as a track guy in high school. I just find that the so called Yasso pace seems to be way too fast. For example, when I would be running 10x800 in 3:10 I was running in the low to mid 2:50's. Even when my pace has been around 3;25, I was running about 3:05-3:10...or maybe I am just running on a slow track and Yasso is accurate ?

i call bullshit. all i got from yasso's was some seriously fucked up IT bands. i can easily run 3:50 yasso's but not even close marathon-wise. 5:04 at last reckoning.

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runfatmanrun.blogspot.com

You must not have been training right at all. From what I gather Yasso breaks down at both the fast and the slow end. You seem to have broken down at the slow end.

Yasso 800.

Start at 4 sets of 800. Build to 10x800.

Run 800 meters hard. (as hard as you think you can and still be able to hold it in the last set)
Run easy for the same amount of time it takes to run the 800.

Example:

Run hard for 800. Takes 3 minutes.
Run easy for 3 minutes.
Repeat 4 times.

When you have built up to 10 sets of this; you can predict a 3 hour marathon.

Some argue that it is a predicter of marathon time and not a way to train to run one that fast. This is a distinction I don't really understand.

Is it possible that the previous poster that runs a marathon faster than his yasso prediction wasn't running the hard pace as fast as the set calls for? (This is a curiosity question and not meant as comment, remark, or sarcasm (aka Slowtwich speak))

Yeah, I was not killing myself running these Yasso 800's like "puke your guts out" quarter mile repeats in Seb Coe-Steve Ovett fashion (am I dating myself...). However, 8x800 is still 6400m of speed and that is 24 minutes (at 3 minutes per 800m) to do 6400 m or an 18.45 5 K clocking during training.

No F&*KING way I would ever waist 18:45 minutes 5K effort (albeit broken up) in a training session. My first track coach always told me that save your racing legs for race day with your spikes on, not on the practice track.

The goal is to run 10 800's at your goal marathon time.

This is a little unclear. What it sounds like is you can run 10 800s at your marathon goal pace. What you mean is that you can run 10 800s in the amout of minutes and seconds that you plan to run your marathon in in hours and minutes.

What you mean is that you can run 10 800s in the amout of minutes and seconds that you plan to run your marathon in in hours and minutes.

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Agreed. This is better.

As to whether its an effective training protocol, I don't know I haven't tried it.

But Dev, would you waste an 18:45 if the track work adaptation has you running a potential 17:30?

You nailed it. I had left out of my description that the minutes and seconds it takes you to run one 800 meter repeat is converted to hours and minutes.

eg. 800 in 3 minutes 10 seconds is supposed to predict marathon in 3 hours 10 minutes. (If you can hold that pace for 10 sets).

There is also a fudge number of minutes you are supposed to add for IM, but I don't remember it.

I'd like to run a 3:00 marathon, and on the track I can hold 3:00/800 (I did a session last week of 8x800 -- apparently I'm running yassos already without knowing what they are).

Another question: a 3:00 marathon is a 6:52 pace, but running 3:00 yassos puts me at a 6:00/mile pace. Is running speed work fifty seconds faster per mile than race pace fast enough to get to the 3:00 marathon?

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Proud Member of the Cervelo Mafia.

Here's the original article

http://runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244-255-624-0,00.html

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"Can’t I just start alone? I don’t need a team. All I need is a mechanic and a car!"-Jens Voight http://velonews.competitor.com/...lgem-and-more_108891 "

Running Times did an article on this a few years back. It is important to run them at the right HR (90%LTHR?) is what they wrote. I have found that if you can maintain that target HR for the entire set it does predict well your Marathon performance (if the rest of your training is up to it). Another thing is that they are calibrated to 880's I believe, so running them on a 400m track is not exactly the same (althought the difference is minor).

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Mike D

How much recovery between each set are you suppose to get?

"Between the 800s, jog for the same number of minutes it took you to run your repeats."

http://runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244-255-624-0,00.html

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"Can’t I just start alone? I don’t need a team. All I need is a mechanic and a car!"-Jens Voight http://velonews.competitor.com/...lgem-and-more_108891 "

Thanks. This sounds like a good excercise. I will remember it the next time I am doing 800s.

You never train at your GOAL time.
Jack Daniels says to train faster.. you have to race faster.

I can rip off 10x800 at 2:30 pace. Does that mean I can do a 2:30 marathon? HELL NO.

Use the Jack Daniels tables, find your 800m I pace (his closest column is the 1000m at I pace.)
So... I look up my VDOT of 58... which is I pace of 3:45/1000m.
That means my 800's should be exactly 3:00.

Although.. Daniels tables also say a VDOT of 58 should be running a 2:48 marathon... so the 3:00min 800 doesn't quite correlate.. it's close enough....

I went back and searched the whole lakermoron quote. I missed that post, but now that I've read it, I am worried. He seemed to be just another Internet idiot, but this is really too much:

"You are simply an angry, mean and vindictive person. You lack any sense of class, decency or morality. I only do this on a public forum so I can warn those who don't know you or are new to the sport. I just hope those people do what I've failed to do in the past which is to simply ignore you going forward. You're insignificant... "

Holy shit... insane...

And to think.. I was going to add him as a friend on facebook. I'm just not so sure now. ;-)

Damn... wishing I could get to IMC this year, ask him his VI... and how the downhill pedalling went....

For me they were not a very good predictor for my marathon time. I was running 10 of them in 2:50 (with a 2:30ish 400M jog between) and ended up running 3:19 in my first marathon two years ago. I was fit for 10K to perhaps a 10 miler but lacked the late race strength needed to run a good marathon. This year I'm focusing more on the fast long run methodology, which is to run at or BELOW your marathon race pace for the last 6-10 miles of your long run (e.g., for 18-22 miler). I'll let you know how it works. I do hope to add in some speed training but nothing like I did two years ago, then I was doing one speed workout each week for 11 weeks before the race, I felt like I peaked two-three weeks early.

Good luck with your training!

Dave in VA

"This year I'm focusing more on the fast long run methodology, which is to run at or BELOW your marathon race pace for the last 6-10 miles of your long run (e.g., for 18-22 miler)."

Can you explain this theory? How is a 'fast long run' a fast long run if you run it slower than race pace?

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Proud Member of the Cervelo Mafia.

For me, doing 3:10-3:20 pace in the 10x800 session, meant that I could get up the next day and have my legs pretty well recovered. The result of this was that I could run again the next day, often tempo at 7 min pace.

Personally, I don't think there is any secret to running a certain pace in a marathon. Yes you need hills, long runs and some speedwork, but in between if you want to be running 6:50 pace on race day, then you just need to be able to do lots of miles at around 7 min pace during all those filler shorter runs. Every step of the run does not need to be at marathon goal pace, but some of it should. When entire 10K runs at marathon goal pace start feeling easy, then you know that you can sustain that pace for 3 hours on race day (assuming you are doing all the other stuff).....but hey, everyone is looking for some magic workout that gets one to the line in the goal time...there is no magic workout....just a cumulation of daily magic workouts that all add up :-)....the Yasso 800 sessions are just one workout of many that add up to that goal race day PB time.

Dev

In my opinion, Yassos are "merely a test" ... Far more important in marathon training is:

1.) Overall mileage, built up slowly over many months
2.) Extra long runs (2-3 hours) 3 or 4 X a month
3.) Medium long tempo (marathon pace) runs (80-120 minutes) 3 or 4X a month.

-- Like others have said, yassos are just one workout of many to help you get comfortable running at a faster clip.

Question: What is appropriate rest for yassos?

all i got from yasso 800s was a stress fracture, but i dig the idea and i'll try them again next time i train for a marathon.