Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 9, 08 14:41

Post #76 of 160 (4961 views)

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I talked with his coach today. His first effort is tonight in Indianapolis. http://www.indianainvaders.com/americanmilersclub/

John Robertson is listed with a personal best of 1:49.49 and a last year SB of 1:52.98.

His coach has no clue what he will do, anything from blowing things away to just OK, as I guess he has a slight hamstring issue from some 300 repeats he did the other night. We will all see. He will have his bike with him to be part of his warm up process, so I am told.

Please dont take this as instigation, im actually amongst those that feel PC"s would work (though not amongst those with disposable income at the moment to see)... but would you be willing to bless his training efforts as sufficient to warrant race gains, prior to this evening's race to avoid the explanation game tomorrow?

I don't know what his training has been like first hand but according to his coach he expects him to be "easily" capable of 1:46-1:47, and a lot of that improvement from the PC's. He says he has seen substantial form improvement (and in another 400 runner he coaches) since getting on the PC's (I just found out about him today). Other improvements the coach attributes to PC's is better/faster recovery from hard workouts and from injury (like this hamstring issue - he has seemed to recover quicker than he would have usually expected). So, the coach says the improvements are there and he thinks PC's are a good part of it. So, I will go with what he says. As I said, his training has been great but this is his first race of the season and he has had this recent hamstring issue so the coach does not know what to expect. One race does not make a season.

Anyhow, I generally put this stuff out ahead of time. If he has a bad race (for any reason) it could be a source of embarrassment. But, I do it anyhow as I have that much confidence in the product, especially in this instance, where he seems to have really integrated it into his training, to use the product to work on his weaknesses. We will see won't we? Problem is, if he has a great race, few here will give the product much credit. But, we will keep nipping away.

And if he has a poor race you've already set up your explanation. Then again, if he has a good race, we don't really know WHY he had it. he coach THINKs the PC's are a good part of the possible faster time, but what else has changed in his training?

You are absolutely right Brandon. Can't trust anyone when it comes to PC's can you? Can we wait until the race results are in before the bickering starts?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 9, 08 15:15

Post #77 of 160 (4941 views)

One more interesting thing about this "race series". It looks like it is there specifically to allow people to qualify for the Olympic trials. Three weeks before the trials, three races this week (John is signed up for all three) on one of the fastest tracks in the country. Race time 9-10 o'clock at night when it would be cooler and the wind usually calm. I guess there are a lot of storms in the area now which could change things but if the times are slow it should not be because of the track or conditions.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 9, 08 15:25

Post #78 of 160 (4934 views)

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I talked with his coach today. His first effort is tonight in Indianapolis. http://www.indianainvaders.com/americanmilersclub/

John Robertson is listed with a personal best of 1:49.49 and a last year SB of 1:52.98.

His coach has no clue what he will do, anything from blowing things away to just OK, as I guess he has a slight hamstring issue from some 300 repeats he did the other night. We will all see. He will have his bike with him to be part of his warm up process, so I am told.

Please dont take this as instigation, im actually amongst those that feel PC"s would work (though not amongst those with disposable income at the moment to see)... but would you be willing to bless his training efforts as sufficient to warrant race gains, prior to this evening's race to avoid the explanation game tomorrow?

I don't know what his training has been like first hand but according to his coach he expects him to be "easily" capable of 1:46-1:47, and a lot of that improvement from the PC's. He says he has seen substantial form improvement (and in another 400 runner he coaches) since getting on the PC's (I just found out about him today). Other improvements the coach attributes to PC's is better/faster recovery from hard workouts and from injury (like this hamstring issue - he has seemed to recover quicker than he would have usually expected). So, the coach says the improvements are there and he thinks PC's are a good part of it. So, I will go with what he says. As I said, his training has been great but this is his first race of the season and he has had this recent hamstring issue so the coach does not know what to expect. One race does not make a season.

Anyhow, I generally put this stuff out ahead of time. If he has a bad race (for any reason) it could be a source of embarrassment. But, I do it anyhow as I have that much confidence in the product, especially in this instance, where he seems to have really integrated it into his training, to use the product to work on his weaknesses. We will see won't we? Problem is, if he has a great race, few here will give the product much credit. But, we will keep nipping away.

And if he has a poor race you've already set up your explanation. Then again, if he has a good race, we don't really know WHY he had it. he coach THINKs the PC's are a good part of the possible faster time, but what else has changed in his training?

You are absolutely right Brandon. Can't trust anyone when it comes to PC's can you? Can we wait until the race results are in before the bickering starts?

I'm not bickering.

And "can't trust anyone" or "can't trust the guy who profits directly from them for unbiased information"?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 14:40

Post #79 of 160 (4851 views)

Let the games begin

http://www.indianainvaders.com/.../AMC_2_06_09_08.html

Styrrell

Styrrell

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 14:45

Post #80 of 160 (4845 views)

2:02 and change. Obviously, not a great time. Amazingly the coach is not disappointed. Apparently everything was going well until 600 m when he started to lock up. He said this is not unusual for this distance that it takes a race or two or three to work the racing kinks out.

The plan now is for him to rabbit the 1500 tomorrow for about 1000m and then do the 800 m again Saturday, I think. Stick around.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 14:49

Post #81 of 160 (4835 views)

In Reply To:

http://www.indianainvaders.com/.../AMC_2_06_09_08.html

So apparently the answer to Frank's question is "no". ;-)

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 14:51

Post #82 of 160 (4828 views)

Believe me I hope he does well. I hate to see anyone do poorly. While I think you do tend to set yourself up for some abuse with your evangelicalism, I can't see how PC would cause a runner to go from 1:50 to 2:02 any more than I could see him going from 1:50 to1:42.

Styrrell

Styrrell

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 14:55

Post #83 of 160 (4813 views)

AC, Styrrell .... don't feed the advertising troll ... this is nothing new, but every response just brings him back in the light. I know its hard to resist!
Dave

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]

Jun 10, 08 15:07

Post #84 of 160 (4797 views)

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Believe me I hope he does well. I hate to see anyone do poorly. While I think you do tend to set yourself up for some abuse with your evangelicalism, I can't see how PC would cause a runner to go from 1:50 to 2:02 any more than I could see him going from 1:50 to1:42.

Styrrell

It didn't. It was simply the race he had. Is Big Brown a nag because his jockey held him back because of an off day in the Belmont, so he finishes last? It is not easy to improve someone at this level. I think if one wants to know what the PC's can for for someone at this level (which was the question in the OP) one will have to look at the entire season, not one race. That is the coaches perspective. Anyhow, I put the data out there for you all to see. I think there is little doubt we do stuff for the more ordinary runners out there. What can we do for someone at this level? That is what the question was?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 10:28

Post #85 of 160 (4685 views)

If you stopped replying to his posts they would drop off the front page.

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [toolguy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 12:09

Post #86 of 160 (4628 views)

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If you stopped replying to his posts they would drop off the front page.

ST is such a busy forum, compared to most sites, that on most days posts will move off the front page in less than an hour and will be on page 4 in one day if there is no activity. You would think that some of these people who keep posting to these PC threads would eventually realize that they are not only part of the problem they complain about, they are the problem they complain about.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 12:30

Post #87 of 160 (4613 views)

That's why I set my page to 100 posts, so that typically a day worth of posts appear on the same screen. Also good when you want to download a Frank Day vs Andy Coggan thread in the airport lounge before a long flight. If I download 100 posts on one of those threads, I can get from the airport lounge in Toronto, somewhere over Anchorage and if the thread is really good, I end up looking over the volcanos on the Kamchatka Peninsula, before finally getting through the thread and working on some presentations to present to customers in Asia....

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 12:42

Post #88 of 160 (4600 views)

Nice spin Frank, but you are the problem .... it is true that if the rest of us quit responding to your advertising we won't have to see it much. I apologize to others that I responded and I look forward to the others responses to nonPC posts.
Dave

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [toolguy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 13:08

Post #89 of 160 (4567 views)

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If you stopped replying to his posts they would drop off the front page.

I'm sure you see the irony in your post. And you might want to say the same thing to the people who made the 10 posts after my previous one, before you posted.

Finally, I'd rather keep threads like this at the top. Frank claims his new fantastic runner is going to set new PR's, then gets smoked. Will he run better some day? Probably. But after all of the hype he was what, 16 seconds off of the prediction (1:46 predicted possibility to a 2:02). The coach did, after all, say the PC's were a substantial part of the improvement, so could they also be a substantial part of the slowing?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 13:13

Post #90 of 160 (4564 views)

In Reply To:

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If you stopped replying to his posts they would drop off the front page.

ST is such a busy forum, compared to most sites, that on most days posts will move off the front page in less than an hour and will be on page 4 in one day if there is no activity. You would think that some of these people who keep posting to these PC threads would eventually realize that they are not only part of the problem they complain about, they are the problem they complain about.

Nice spin, but if YOU didn't start these threads, issues like this runner (and Joaquin, and the girl who showed up on the wrong day) wouldn't bite you in the end.

And you'll have to explain how I am the problem I complain about (your "most see a 40% gain in power" claim)....I'm not sure how I am that problem, or even part of that problem, that I complain about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 13:19

Post #91 of 160 (4555 views)

In Reply To:

That's why I set my page to 100 posts, so that typically a day worth of posts appear on the same screen. Also good when you want to download a Frank Day vs Andy Coggan thread in the airport lounge before a long flight. If I download 100 posts on one of those threads, I can get from the airport lounge in Toronto, somewhere over Anchorage and if the thread is really good, I end up looking over the volcanos on the Kamchatka Peninsula, before finally getting through the thread and working on some presentations to present to customers in Asia....

I didn't know you could set the page to show 100 threads.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 13:24

Post #92 of 160 (4549 views)

Go to your profiles and set it...with these threads, you might want to show 1000 posts minimum :-) That might get me from North America to Hong Kong, or I could do a detour to Tapei to get you a CM who can make PC's for $150 cost :-).

Still waiting for Rappstar to implement the "download ST" option where you get an html page for each thread on your main page showing the last x number of posts in the thread, where x is your default posts per page setting...

Dev

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 08 14:23

Post #93 of 160 (4521 views)

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Is there a prize for getting the right prediction? I say he will be slower by between 3-5 seconds of his PR. Purely a guess, based on my very small experience/knowledge of specificity.

You should get some sort of prize! Turns out you were a bit generous to the PCs in your estimate of slowing though. 10 seconds slower than his PR?! That's a lifetime over 800 meters.

Rik

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jun 28, 08 10:25

Post #94 of 160 (4441 views)

I guess the answer is "no", as he didn't make the Olympic Trials.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Old and Haggard] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 12:02

Post #95 of 160 (4340 views)

In Reply To:

I guess the answer is "no", as he didn't make the Olympic Trials.

Well, we just have some new information that addresses the question, despite John Robertson's failure here (his coach attributes his failure to the fact he started his training for this effort about 6 weeks too late so didn't have enough anaerobic efforts)

Anyhow, recently have heard from two more "real runners", one a 2:45 marathoner who also does triathlons. I interviewed him at LP and the video of that is on the site (link here) if you are interested. He says we have taken him from a 2:45 PB to 2:27 capable despite his mileage going from 110-120 mpw to 65-70 mpw. So much for "more is more".

The other is a training partner of John Robertson, Wesley Fox. Wesley has been borrowing John's cranks and was calling to get his own pair. He is foregoing his final year of eligibility at Baylor to turn pro. He reports "going from a 22.5 to a 20.9 in the 200m and from a 50s to a 46-47" in the 400 after about 2 months of use.

So, even though John didn't answer the question in the way I had hoped, it looks like it is being answered and the answer appears to be YES.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Last edited by: Frank Day: Jul 28, 08 12:12

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 12:35

Post #96 of 160 (4295 views)

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I guess the answer is "no", as he didn't make the Olympic Trials.

The other is a training partner of John Robertson, Wesley Fox. Wesley has been borrowing John's cranks and was calling to get his own pair. He is foregoing his final year of eligibility at Baylor to turn pro. He reports "going from a 22.5 to a 20.9 in the 200m and from a 50s to a 46-47" in the 400 after about 2 months of use.

Now that's funny. Going 46-47 at "400 U" (aka Baylor) will probably get him about 10th on their depth chart, and he's going pro? I hope those PCs are edible, 'coz he's gonna get real hungry real fast.

Let me guess: he showed up for a meet on Saturday, but the meet was on Sunday. So, he ran the 200 and 400 by himself, using his Timex Ironman (tm) watch to time himself? Was he running with someone else who can vouch for his times not by actually timing him but because Mr. Fox ran so fast and left him behind?

Oh yeah, what the heck is "2:27 capable" in a marathon? Another estimate?

Are you a nutcase magnet, by any chance?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Old and Haggard] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 13:18

Post #97 of 160 (4253 views)

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Are you a nutcase magnet, by any chance?

First I've heard of a "nutcase magnet" but I love it. Yes, some folks are nutcase magnets (not saying anything about whether Frank fits the bill).
.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Old and Haggard] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 13:33

Post #98 of 160 (4234 views)

In Reply To:

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I guess the answer is "no", as he didn't make the Olympic Trials.

The other is a training partner of John Robertson, Wesley Fox. Wesley has been borrowing John's cranks and was calling to get his own pair. He is foregoing his final year of eligibility at Baylor to turn pro. He reports "going from a 22.5 to a 20.9 in the 200m and from a 50s to a 46-47" in the 400 after about 2 months of use.

Now that's funny. Going 46-47 at "400 U" (aka Baylor) will probably get him about 10th on their depth chart, and he's going pro? I hope those PCs are edible, 'coz he's gonna get real hungry real fast.

Let me guess: he showed up for a meet on Saturday, but the meet was on Sunday. So, he ran the 200 and 400 by himself, using his Timex Ironman (tm) watch to time himself? Was he running with someone else who can vouch for his times not by actually timing him but because Mr. Fox ran so fast and left him behind?

Oh yeah, what the heck is "2:27 capable" in a marathon? Another estimate?

Are you a nutcase magnet, by any chance?

What is meant by 2:27 capable is pretty self-explanatory if you would only watch the video.

Regarding your Baylor assertion. Here is what is given out by them as their T&F Outdoor bests for 2008

400 METERS (47.20)
44.83 # LeJerald Betters NCAA Outdoor Championships (06/11-14)
45.46a # Quentin Iglehart-Summers Big 12 Championships (05/16-18)
46.06 # Marcus Boyd NCAA Midwest Regional (05/30-31)
47.20 J.T. Scheuerman Big 12 Championships (05/16-18)
50.53 Wesley Fox Michael Johnson Classic (04/19)

46-47 isn't the best but it certainly isn't 10 down on the depth chart. His 50.5 put him 5 on their depth chart. I presume he is going pro because he sees the potential for substantial further improvement. Only time will tell if he achieves it. Are you not impressed with a 4 sec improvement at that distance in 2 months? Or, do you think he is so amateur he doesn't know how fast he is actually running?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 13:36

Post #99 of 160 (4223 views)

Are you not impressed with a 4 sec improvement at that distance in 2 months?

no.

Re: will PowerCranks help "real" runners? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 08 13:40

Post #100 of 160 (4206 views)

In Reply To:

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Are you a nutcase magnet, by any chance?

First I've heard of a "nutcase magnet" but I love it. Yes, some folks are nutcase magnets (not saying anything about whether Frank fits the bill).
.

Oh, I fit the bill, as I attract all those who "know" they know all about my product and me (and anyone who says anything positive about it) even though they have never used it. Want to have a "controversial thread" at ST just put PowerCranks in the title. The nut cases will come out of the woodwork.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

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