pfffft. you evidenced based guys are all the same. ;)

HOLY CRAP! 5 hours on the trainer. thats torture.. that would make me resent my bike more than anything and hate training. Hope youknow what youre doing haha. Maybe you should watch this and go outside and ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U

you dont need no stinking trainer!

A watt is a watt, that was indeed what I was trying to say. I don't have a computrainer but a "hard" interval on the trainer brings me fewer watts than it does outside for the same PE. So a "hard" trainer ride requires less work to be completed than does a "hard" ride outside.

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Jason
Dig It Triathlon and Multisport
http://www.digittri.com

That's gizmo power estimator where I come from. ;-) Most of the people I've talked to have higher average power and *much* higher normalized power on the road, yet they feel like the trainer workout is harder.

I'm guessing, most people aren't cooling sufficiently to match road conditions. Before I got the Avacore thing, I decided the optimal temperature for a trainer workout was around 50 deg fahrenheit, with two BIG fans directed at me. The power loss is fairly minimal then. I'll bet very few people use a trainer that way, though.


--jens

If cooling is performance enhancing as your "toys" have shown :-),
than a 30+kmh wind will provide a cooling effect that is lost inside on the trainer.

There is likely a combination of watts, time, hr, environment that would make for a comparable state.

I know that I perform better inside with a fan and cooler conditions.

Andrew

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C'mon legs run faster!
Being fast on a crappy bike is cool
Fueled by Guinness, Tuborg, Anchor Steam and Creemore Springs

What about heart rate on a trainer. I find it much harder to raise my heart rate on the trainer. Even on the flats outside, it seems I can push my heart rate. When on the trainer, it feels like I am going all out to get HR up.

This has raised questions for me about long rides indoors. I will do my recovery days on the trainer, but I feel that if I were to do a long ride, I would be getting the RPM's but clearly at a much lower HR.

I don't get it? Why do people ride indoors? It sucks, period. There are few things in this world that compare to the simple pleasure of riding a bike outside. As for the workout comparison. I don't buy the trainer crap. You don't fight wind, gravity,nor do you have to drag your carcass around on the trainer. Nothing builds strength for riding a bike like riding a bike outside. Besides i'll take real wind in my face anyday over a big stupid fan. Trainers are for when winter has made roads un passable. Maybe this explains why I see such crappy bike handling skills in races. Your all riding inside like little hamsters.

PE? I thought that's WHY we trained with power instead.

I guess I'm a hamster - I like my trainer & use it year round.

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"I don't get it? Why do people ride indoors? It sucks, period."

You obviously don't live in Canada :) I agree that it sucks, but when the roads are covered in ice and slush and it is -25C outside, indoors doesn't suck as much as outdoors.

yes, it sucks. what would suck worse is being arrested for leaving my 8 year old home by herself while I feel the wind in my hair. Or getting hit by a car because I am riding post-call on one hour of sleep. lighten up dude. some of us have other responsibilities that make riding outside impossible even when the weather is nice.

I think some people who ride on the trainer while checking email, playing video games etc are riding a lot easier than they think they are, even though it feels like they are going
hard. When they are done, they say "I did 5 hrs on the trainer." but it is the equlvalent of riding 5 hours on the road at 15 mph. In that case, they would be better served to have
done 2 really hard hours.

Alright, alright already point taken. I appologize for my post to those that have circumstances at times that don't allow outdoor riding. My post was in response to the original post though, where it sounded like the individual had a choice between the 2 options.
No, I don't live in Canada. I used to live in upstate NY though, and in terms of weather it's pretty close. That of course is where I developed my deep hatred for indoor riding. I live in the Northern Shenandoa Valley now (VA) and stil get some bad weather at times. I usually HTFU and get out on a SS cross bike and end up loving it when it's done. I don't have kids yet so I can't relate to those circumstances.

So the question on HR on trainer vs. road got lost by the hard axx question about why anyone would ride inside. Now that we agree that there are circumstances that intervene in our busy lives that mean sometimes our only option is to get in an indoor ride...

What about HR on the trainer. Do others find that they feel like that are having to go almost all out to get their HR up to a level comparable to what they could do even on the flats. I don't have wattage, which is why I monitor primarily HR.

I totally feel ya! Working in a hospital in the fall thru spring... good freaking luck riding outside. It's dark when we go in and dark when we get home.

Call me crazy, but I really enjoy a really intense hour long trainer session at 5am.

:-)

Jodi

Absolutely have trouble elevating HR on trainer versus outside. I think it's because of stuff I mentioned earlier in my why do people ride inside rant. You don't work as hard because your not fighting wind, gravity or pulling carcass around. The resistance is simply different. Your perceived excertion is high on a trainer because of the lack of cooling and being stationary marinading in your own sweat regardless of how high you have your 16 fans set at around you. I used to have to spend several month on a trainer in upstate N.Y because of the infinite snowbanks. I could ride the thing 3-4 days a week and it would still take me a month to get my real riding strength back in the spring. I found rollers to be a more comparable option to outside riding. Rollers are 10x better than a trainer. Most people are simply too scared to try them though, especially triathletes. There obviously is a learning curve on them, but once you get the hang of it you will see it's better. It holds interest more mentally as well. If you lose concentration you crash. That's pretty good motivation. Plus you become a better bike handler. I have never tried my tri bike on rollers though, only road bike. Tri bike would be very interesting!

You are one sick puppy ... ;-)

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I can see why people would ride inside if it is icy outside, but other than that extreme - why would you ?
Lack of sleep isnt a good reason - if you're that fatigued you should take the rest.

And if your HR isnt at least similar to what it would be outside, then whats the point.
Another tri forum had a competition about their longest turbo ride. I think someone did 8 hours or so - but if you're just twiddling the pedals - theres no point. Anyone can sit there and not raise a sweat if you take the resistance down a bit.

If you race outside, really you should train outside unless you have some good reasons for the occasional miss.

In the winter time I turn into a TV junkie and enjoy the trainer. But I'm not a junk mile trainer junkie. My workouts are called workouts for a reason even on the trainer!! Longest ride on the trainer 6 1/2 hours and it was all quality !!

lack of sleep isn't a reason not to train, I am not necessarily fatigued, but my reaction times are affected so I don't want to play in traffic. I did 60% of my training for IMFL indoors. still had a decent bike split and a great run.

Interesting question! Three answers:

IF you are looking to cut corners then absolutely NO!

IF it's not raining, then ride outside?

There is NO WAY anyone can tell you what road equals what trainer time.....it is rider specific. Use a powermeter to equivalate. My bet is that the trainer time is actually longer. It may feel harder, that's because its soOOOOOOOoooooOOOoo boring, but usually the power output is less on the trainer. Remember, the powermeter doesn't lie!

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