My vote goes for a coach. Cost? Well, most of the time you get what you pay for. A good coach costs a good amount of money.

SO many questions need to be answered primarily being your budget and goals for the race. You'll likely get your fair share of responses here...just do your research and have some questions handy for the coach/online "systems" you're considering. You should be able to weed out the pretenders and contenders for your business pretty quickly.

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Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

The price ranges are huge - dirt cheap for some on-line, prewritten programs to $1,000+/mo for some other coaches. Decide what's really important to you. If it's face-to-face time that'll narrow your search to someone local. If being remote is okay then there are many options. You deserve a good communicator, someone who responds quickly, works with the level of technology that makes you comfortable, delivers a program on time and starts off with an in depth consultation to learn everything about you. For that it could rage from probably $179/mo to $300/mo.

Approach it like a hiring process, once you find a few in your price range then speak with them, ask for references (atheltes who they work with and maybe a few who left them). Invest a bit more time in the selection process and it'll be worth it in the later months.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

I believe online coaching requires a higher level of commitment from you. In other words, it is easier to skip a workout when you know nobody is waiting there for you to show up. Another important factor is technique- one of the benefits of coaching is improving efficiency by having them look at your form and make improvements (especially swimming). An online coach can only evaluate your video, but that is not easy to do and never exactly the same as having someone physically there. So my advice- if you are already a good athlete with high motivation to train and strong fundamentals, that just needs to get more out of your training, online is a good solution. If you struggle at your middle-distance races, finish back of the pack, or find it hard to self-motivate, spend the extra money for a live coach.

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http://www.epixgear.com

Are there really coaches that command that sort of price, and if so who are they and who on here has been coached by them?

I have gone the coach route twice. Paid anywhere from $125 to $175 per month. Just didn't work for me. I joined Team Endurance Nation and I am training more efficiently in less time and faster than I ever was with a coach and I am still getting faster. So far, the best $99 per month I have spent on training.

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Team Endurance Nation

Before I started coaching, I tried it both. There are pro's and con's each way. If you are fairly motivated and have time to do your own work around's in your schedule as well as take initiative to learn about training and racing then an online training system may be a good way to go.

If you need a kick in the ass at times, want regular feedback and want someone to filter information and teach you what you need to know then a personal coach is probably best.

Check around and pick a system or coach you like who can also back up their coaching with testimonials or results.

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Scott McMillan, M.Sc
Twitter@Factor9Coaching | Factor9Coaching.com | Facebook

I have a coach who is not in the same state as me. I pay her $175 per month. I think she is great. I like having a coach. I don't think I could figure out the best training program for me by myself. Definitely ask for references - there was one coach who I was considering who wouldn't give me any so I immediately decided not to go with him. It isn't always the case that you get what you pay for. There are coaches who charge a lot, are big name and don't give much. Definitely do not consider a coach who requires you to pay more than a month at a time. I tried Endurance Nation twice and I really didn't like it - some people like it and some do not.

A couple of notes on coaches in general. I have seen this land grab approach to triathlon lately - maybe it is the fact that triathlon is booming or that the economy was/is in the tanks but everyone claims to be an expert on triathlon and willing to provide coaching service. The so called experts say to be careful with who you go with, ask for referrals etc. The truth of the matter is what I mostly see is coaches taking exceptional athletes to begin with and making them just that, exceptional athletes. What I want to see more of is taking MOP triathletes or BOP triathletes to KQ - that is impressive. It is not impressive taking a FOP triathlete to KQ IMO. With that being said I think it is also important to have a coach for IM who has done a ton of IMs and not just done well. You want a coach that has raced in the heat, in the cold, failed wildly and succeeded greatly. Experience is key at Ironman and nothing gives you experience like actually being an athlete yourself.

It seems like a lot of the coaches out there have minimum start-up fees, minimum month of contracts, and other sorts of hooks and gotchas. If you are serious about a coach send an RFP out. If coaches really care/want your business they will take the time to respond. I'm guessing most coaches won't bite though as it isn't worth there time and it seems that there are a ton of lazy coaches out there who are not really looking for anything but low hanging fruit.

With that being said I think it is important to mention that I have never been coached but instead understand that I am extremely self-motivated and took a slow and steady path to ascension in triathlon. I started out as long distance runner before getting into triathlon but have moved myself from MOP/FOP to the very furthest FOP position. It took some time and hard work but it has worked out for me. I think my self-coaching worked for my personality but I think everyone needs something different. Some athletes need more attention, others not so much.

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You have some very good points. It really is hard to tell how good a coach is and how good a coach will be for the client. That is one of the reasons I recommend not going with someone who wants more than one month's payment at a time. The RFP is an interesting idea if you know what questions to ask. Personally, I would prefer not to have a coach and be able to do everything on my own. But I don't have the self-discipline and confidence. So a coach is an easy solution for me. Let her do the thinking and planning. She can be more objective about me than I can. But all of this depends on the individual.

Ya the RFP thing really just started to come to me as I see the space getting so crowded with coaches. Everyone seems to think it is so easy and I even came across a page by Ben Greenfield touting some program about getting into triathlon coaching and how easy it is if you just buy his book or whatever it was. It got me thinking that there needs to be a really good way to sort out who is good AND wants to work hard versus those that don't. Flip the pages around, make the coaches interview for your business. After all people are shelling out $1k-$4 for personal coaching - that isn't exactly a small chunk of change. RFP questions would be a little tricky because you can't expect the coaches to give up their entire cookbook up front but if I gave it some thought I am sure I could come up with a decent RFP.

I think everyone out there who has a coach should put some thought into understanding what value their coach is really providing. I see all of these athletes who are coached and they have some awful rolling resistance tire and I shake my head. It seems coaches seem to focus on one area of expertise, they tout physiology or successful past as an athlete or coaching athletes. Rarely do I see a coach touting the little things that matter, things that Rappstar has focused on. Honestly, I would like to know if your coach ever incorporates practicing transition into the schedule. Maybe not as important for IM, but for a sprint or olympic depending on your goals they can be real important. To be honest I think most coaches lack depth and breath. If I was going for a coach I think I would rather be coached by someone like Friel and pay a little more than to be coached by someone who has spent 1/100th of the time studying triathlon as Friel or someone else.

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Clarification: my book teaches the proper methods of attaining a coaching certification and setting up a successful triathlon coaching business. It is not a "coach in a box" system - just a manual for triathlon coaches.

As an aside, coaching is not a moonlighting position for me. I live and breathe triathlon, whether racing, coaching, studying or writing - and I think that you should be looking for a coach who is into coaching as more than just a hobby.

Ben Greenfield

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

Ben,

Appreciate the clarification. Nothing wrong with it but obviously you believe there is money to be made in educating coaches on business startup so much so that you spent time and effort in making a product for them regardless of whether it is a turnkey system or simply a manual.

Congrats btw on your funds raised for your Janus charity. Anyway using you as a perfect example of my point, you have fingers in so many pods and I'm sure you are a wealth of knowledge on many subjects, but all the info can be a bit distracting. Sometimes I believe we need coaches who are "curators" of information. They stay current so athletes don't have to. Nobody can study everything so you can't be an expert on everything but you have to be smart and look for the things of value. The things that will make your athletes achieve their goals. I don't know enough about your strengths and weaknesses and although there are multiple answers given the situation, but what if I just wanted to know what tires to run on my bike - could you give me a well thought out answer? Most coaches couldn't. They might reference someone like Rappstar and say XYZ tire because "Rappstar told me to use them" but they can't actually tell me why to use them if asked. Little things like this can matter.

Nobody knows everything and it is very difficult to sift through and find a good coach. Too often I see people choose coaches for what I think are the wrong reasons. Obviously referrals and testimonials are important but often times the people reading/hearing them are not educated enough on the subject to really know what is important and what is not. Is a prestigious resume of education credentials more important than a coach who takes a stagnant MOP athlete to FOP. I guess it depends on your goal but I would personally choose the later.

I appreciate that you live and breathe triathlon and that you look to grow the sport. My main point is it seems that many coaches offer little value. There are good coaches but they are tough to find. I have watched it all year, people who started next to me and finished next to me, now finish behind me and they shelled out 3K for a coach. It just doesn't make sense.

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This was very important to me when choosing a coach. I had one where it became their moonlighting position and it didn't workout. Now I have someone who has a large incentive to see me get better since this is all they do.

Good points that you make, elecusunus. And the short answer is if a beginner athlete asks me for tire knowledge on say, clinchers vs. tubulars, I'm all over it. But if an advanced athlete asks for specific tire selection on a specific course, I'm honestly going to call the bike sponsor for my coaching businesses and chat with them or send the athlete their way.

So, as I emphasized in a recent article called "The New Rules of Triathlon Coaching" at http://www.trifuel.com/...f-triathlon-coaching, an advising team is crucial.

I suppose Google is another option, but you gotta be DAMN careful with that route.

Ben Greenfield

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

You need to look at your budget then interview the coaches that are shortlisted. You need to mesh with your coach in order to trust them.

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Greg C. Moriates
Owner/Coach
GCMendurance.com

This may be a bit arrogant for me to ask, but what can a coach provide me that I would not be able to find on my own? Especially with forums such as this, tri-fuel, beginner triathlete, as well as searches on the internet? I consider myself a highly motivated individual and very athletic as well, although I currently find myself wrestling with the question "To be coached, or not be coached?" simply because I don't want to start down a path that would do more harm than good. By that, I mean I don't want to implement incorrect techniques, incorrect workouts not targeting my specific needs, etc.

It seems to me that the $125-175/month question is: Can a truly athletic and motivated person be successful in triathlon without a coach?

If you have a coach that you feel is not focusing on your needs with incorrect workouts, incorrect techniques, etc, you either do not trust your coaches ability to put you in the correct path, you are not willing to trust your coach or anyone for training, or the coach is just not a good coach.

One of the most important things a coach does is hold you accountable for your sessions, shifts your session for deficiencies that your coach sees (you may not), and analyzed your data to see if you are not getting the proper rest.

You can be successful without a coach for sure. But it would be a longer road than with one. Lets put it this way, do you think Mecca, Wellington, Carfrae, etc ,etc ,etc, have coaches. Of course they do and they have a greater athletic ability and motivation than most of us.

You are not being arrogant, you are being honest. The most important thing is open ended conversations with a coach you trust.

A coach is a great thing if you let it be.

Hope this helps.

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Greg C. Moriates
Owner/Coach
GCMendurance.com

Also, there is definite time investment and guesswork spent in self-coaching through forum threads. All for the purpose of having about 90% confidence, and 10% wondering if what the random guy on the forum said was the correct way to do things.

Vs. near 100% confidence when a coach is telling you how to do things.

Ben Greenfield

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

TriZag,

That's a very fair question. The answer is somewhat merky but involves things like:
The big picture view - I have found as an athlete I can't focus on the true big picture becuase I'm dealing with the small picture too much. That's why as a coach, I have a coach

Accountability - it's way too easy to cut out a set here and there when 'no one' is watching. Some people, not all, need to know someone will ask them, "Why did you cut that run/bike/swim short?'

Time savings - Some people would rather have someone else set up their training so that they can do other things instead. ie, Family time, work, watch TV

Another way of looking at things - We all find what we feel is the best way to do something. And when someone else comes along and recommends things, it can be eye opening.

A filter - There's tons of information out there. Most of it is valid in certain circumstances. So which one? How much? How often?

Hiring a coach is like hiring a consultant. They are specialists. Can you do it on your own? Sure! Do you want to? That depends on the person.

A good athlete is one that asks tons of questions and want to know the why behind the method. Not to question/challenge your coaches methods, but to gain an understanding as to WHY they are doing what they are doing. If they cannot provide you with a good answer...that's a problem.

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Owner/Head Coach for Endurance Concepts
http://www.EnduranceConcepts.com
Sponsored by: Cadence Bikes & Multisport & Brooks

I love the question, MAVARNETT and others seem to have laid out a pretty good case. The time part is huge. Similar to changing my own brake pads, I can get the chilton manual, go to auto zone and buy the parts and the tools, spend an afternoon changing them and probably still come out ahead even with buying all the tools needed.

On the other hand, I just spent an afetrnoon doing it instead of leaving my car somewhere for someone else to work on.

But there's another big one, experience.

A very good self coached athlete can put together a season plan, can put together an excellent race day plan too. In a year, you will have dokne one season plan and maybe three or four raceday plans.

A coach will have done 5, 8, 12 or more season plans last year and 15 plus raceday plans. And you know what, he tried some things that didn't work out the to at he learned from. Using books and websites helps allay some of the rick of doing it on your own, but those coaches used those books and websites and calculators and spoke to other experienced athletes and coaches as well and they made some mistakes or perhaps you might say did some things sub-optimally.

That experience can be valuable, and maybe all you need is an hour or two with a coach to run your ideas past him or her.

Is it worth the money? That's something you have to answer for yourself.

I think most current coaches started out like you, interested in training, interested in planning, reading everything they can get their hands on etc. Most coaches still are like you in that regard.

My personal opinion is that you will do fine either way.

I agree with everyone that it is a great question you ask. It is a difficult one to answer. I think a lot of your decision should be based on how much self-knowledge and self-discipline you feel you have. Try doing it without a coach for a while and see how it goes. I tried that route and it didn't work for me. But each person is different. Also, there is no guarantee that having a coach will make you race faster. I have a friend who used a very expensive, well know coach for a year and had poor results. If you do go with a coach, you need to do what the coach tells you to do - not more and not less. If you are not comfortable with the workouts, etc., talk to the coach. If after a while you feel things are not going well, stop with the coach.

Robert, thanks for the props. And it means a lot since you joined us so recently.

To the OP: you can create a free 5-day trial to Endurance Nation, just go here to start the process. Come inside and take us for a spin for 5-days, we'll even give you a copy of our Four Keys DVD and a 10% training plan discount code. If we are a good fit for each other, stay on board. We have no minimum commitment and you can cancel at any time. You're not an indentured servant and the last thing we want is someone on the team who doesn't want to be there.

If you decide we are not what you need, no worries, just cancel your trial and you'll have that 10% discount code and the DVD. Please also see our Cash for Clunkers Training Plan Buy Back program here.

You've received a lot of great tips for the value of a coach vs an online system. We are another solution and offer a range of ways for you to try us, for free, before you buy. What we bring to the table is a community of 500+ Ironman athletes, all training under the same system in a pay to play space, openly sharing their experiences with each other. It's difficult to explain the value of that. We realize that some value that more than others, and some not at all, so we've just opened the doors and let you come inside for 5 days, for free. Please also search Endurance Nation on this forum.

Related:
I've observed that the most successful athletes participate in the coaching relationship. Our athletes who ask us and their peers questions, participate in discussions, contribute their own knowledge and experiences to the group simply go faster because they have tapped into accountability systems and/or have become much smarter athletes because they have participated in the process. Those that don't participate usually don't do as well. I've then observed that frequently the more you pay for coaching the less motivated you can become to participate in the coaching process. As some have observed in this thread, paying for a coach can be a form of paying someone to think for you, motivate you, etc. I don't believe that's a good thing, as the goal of every coach should be to coach himself out of job by teaching his athletes how to coach themselves.

The net is that I've seen MANY athletes, coached by expensive 1:1 coaches, who don't know much about a whole range of value training and racing topics. They've divested themselves from having to learn it, plugging themselves into a coach who doesn't know what he's doing in the first place, especially regarding Ironman coaching.

So my advice is that whatever route you choose, you'll do better in the long run if you have the long term goal of becoming a better self-coached athlete. You begin that by participating in the process, with the caveat that the more you pay the less you are inclined to participate in the process. That's been my observation anyway.

Please PM me if you have any questions I can answer directly. Thanks.

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Rich Strauss
Endurance Nation Ironman 2013 and 2014 World Champion TriClub, Div I
Create a FREE 7-day trial membership

I don't know about triterp, but I'm getting some very good and valuable advice from everyone who has chimed in thus far. Thank you. Great points made all around. I do question everything (that's the engineer in me) and I fully understand the time vs. money argument.

My opposition for obtaining a coach, at the moment, relates to a couple factors, one being cost, and the other being pride. Capital for triathlon just isn't at the top of the priority list for me right now. It may be in the future, we'll see. I don't know if this sounds ridiculous, but I feel that I'll have a bigger sense of accomplishment obtaining my goals on my own. Case in point: qualifying for Boston and being able to do reasonably well in my first year of triathlon. I know these are not big steps for many of you and they're not entirely huge for me, but it was a lot of work and being able to accomplish these goals on my own made it much more satisfying. Not saying one can't have the same sense of accomplishment without a coach because, when everything is said and done, you're still doing the work to make it happen (That, and nearly every pro has a coach). I'm just saying that's where I stand now. If I had an unlimited amount of capital, I might think otherwise, however.

Right now, my plan will essentially remain the same: see what I can accomplish on my own and if I feel I reach a point where I can no longer improve on my own, I'll either visit the forums...or hire a coach.