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how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift)
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i just did a zwift race in a small humid room with no fan. new course with the 2 15+ min climbs. it was ... bad. really bad. and i sucked.

this made me curious. is it just me not being able to HTFU? or is there something real going on?
Last edited by: buzz: Aug 4, 18 15:04
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Of course there's something going on. You can't dissipate sufficient heat. There's no surprise or mystery to it. If you're too hot your body is not going to make you feel good about making yourself even hotter.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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A ton
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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See my recent post on my 2x20s in the heat...


https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...D_P6684273/#p6684273
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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i guess what i mean is, i knew it would make me potentially give up faster. but i did not expect to produce such poor power for a given HR. /that/ is what i am wondering about.


i suppose one way of thinking about it is that maybe it distorts the signals going to noakes' central governor?
Last edited by: buzz: Aug 4, 18 17:17
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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ahh, interesting. some good links there. thanks.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Nope that’s normal. My run today was brutal bc oh heat/humidity. Super slow pace but high hr. Happens on the trainer too. I don’t think your heart cares how many watts you’re putting out. Just how hard it’s working at whatever temp it is!

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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Also as a follow up.... The next two weeks I moved my 2x20 to the mornings. Avg power for each increased by 5 watts per week. I hit my highest 5/10/20/30/60 min power of 2018 last Wednesday morning. Heart rate was back down in the low 150s which is pretty normal for sweet spot.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Not only does RPE go up in the heat, your body spends more energy focused on cooling, and it becomes a downward spiral pretty quickly.
you are running warm so you FEEL running warm. Your feel of running warm leads you to start concentrating on how warm you are running. meanwhile your body starts sweating more to manage cooling, so you feel even worse, and you concentrate then further on the heat.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Indoor cooling and airflow is the #1 reason why "I just can't seem to make power indoors". It is huge. It doesn't really matter what the air temp is....it needs to be moving, otherwise you are quickly in a bubble of 100° air even in a 60° room. Several fans or one huge fan. You should be COLD except when you are actually doing the hard intervals. Warm-up, recovery, cool down.... you should be cold and want to wrap a towel around yourself. That is the way to get the most out of the work intervals. Suffering is not the stimulus to adapt, watts are.

How much does it effect things? For me, I lost about 3.5% of my FTP for every 10°F the temp rose above 60°F. This was pretty consistent over a long time and wide temperature range. Your equation might differ from mine, but you have one. Figure it out.

I would tell athletes that underestimate their need for airflow to perform an indoor 40:00 effort at 95%RPE.... and only turn a fan on after halfway. Power file was very convincing. It would start strong, dip down around 10:00 - 15:00 and then recover after 3:00 - 8:00 with the fan on.


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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Good post

I failed on a Tempo level effort this past week at the 45 minute mark. I had 3 fans and yet still overheated. I even got off the bike and sat for a few minutes in front of the fan with sweat literally streaming and could feel the heat coming off my body. I tried to get back on the bike and back it down to Endurance to finish out the session and still failed a few minutes later. Some days I can get through a top of Threshold effort and other days I cannot make it through an Endurance effort because of heat. A few years ago I tried using an ice vest with the fans. That was a waste of $ because within a few minutes of training my body heat would melt the ice packs and then it trapped the heat and made it worse.

I tend to drop a little fitness going from winter indoor training into the summer because it becomes harder to train inside and out. I've come to accept for me it is what it is.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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It has been about 97 F where I live for the past 2 weeks, I have a huge 120W fan. First week I was able to race in Zwift, but this week I've been a mess in every bike workout or race. I've abandonned the last 3 races, after 20 minutes I hit a wall and I can't push anymore, and cardio is all over the place.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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What is the temperature in the room?
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Indoor cooling and airflow is the #1 reason why "I just can't seem to make power indoors". It is huge. It doesn't really matter what the air temp is....it needs to be moving, otherwise you are quickly in a bubble of 100° air even in a 60° room. Several fans or one huge fan. You should be COLD except when you are actually doing the hard intervals. Warm-up, recovery, cool down.... you should be cold and want to wrap a towel around yourself. That is the way to get the most out of the work intervals. Suffering is not the stimulus to adapt, watts are.

How much does it effect things? For me, I lost about 3.5% of my FTP for every 10°F the temp rose above 60°F. This was pretty consistent over a long time and wide temperature range. Your equation might differ from mine, but you have one. Figure it out.

I would tell athletes that underestimate their need for airflow to perform an indoor 40:00 effort at 95%RPE.... and only turn a fan on after halfway. Power file was very convincing. It would start strong, dip down around 10:00 - 15:00 and then recover after 3:00 - 8:00 with the fan on.

this. can't stress it enough. adapt when doing easy rides, but train under the most optimal of conditions.

also, get a dehumidifier. airflow doesn't mean a lot when it can't cause the water on you to evaporate. humidity is essentially a measurement of water saturation, and as saturation gets higher, it gets increasingly difficult to add additional water (viz. sweat) into the air. This is also why for this time of the year, it's better to do hard intervals indoors (temp of 70F, 45-55% RH), as it's just brutal outdoors, even with active cooling measures such as ice socks
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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buzz wrote:

i just did a zwift race in a small humid room with no fan. new course with the 2 15+ min climbs. it was ... bad. really bad. and i sucked.

this made me curious. is it just me not being able to HTFU? or is there something real going on?

A human on a bicycle produces approximately 350W to 400W of waste heat for every 100W delivered to the pedals.

If you are pedalling at 250 - 300W, then you are generating something like 900W to 1200W of heat energy, the same as an electric heater or hair dryer.

Unless you have an effective means of removing such waste heat energy at a sufficient rate, your core temp will rise and your body will have little choice but to reduce effort level.

Riding outside at a modest 30km/h means a 30km/h breeze flowing over our entire body providing significant assistance to removal of excess waste heat.

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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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300 watts for 30 minutes outside with all the cooling described by Alex, earns the same TSS as 300 watts for 30 minutes in a small humid room with no fan.

A perfect illustration of how TSS is not just flawed but utterly stupid.

AlexS wrote:
buzz wrote:

i just did a zwift race in a small humid room with no fan. new course with the 2 15+ min climbs. it was ... bad. really bad. and i sucked.

this made me curious. is it just me not being able to HTFU? or is there something real going on?

A human on a bicycle produces approximately 350W to 400W of waste heat for every 100W delivered to the pedals.

If you are pedalling at 250 - 300W, then you are generating something like 900W to 1200W of heat energy, the same as an electric heater or hair dryer.

Unless you have an effective means of removing such waste heat energy at a sufficient rate, your core temp will rise and your body will have little choice but to reduce effort level.

Riding outside at a modest 30km/h means a 30km/h breeze flowing over our entire body providing significant assistance to removal of excess waste heat.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [Trev] [ In reply to ]
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Trev wrote:
300 watts for 30 minutes outside with all the cooling described by Alex, earns the same TSS as 300 watts for 30 minutes in a small humid room with no fan.

A perfect illustration of how TSS is not just flawed but utterly stupid.

AlexS wrote:
buzz wrote:

i just did a zwift race in a small humid room with no fan. new course with the 2 15+ min climbs. it was ... bad. really bad. and i sucked.

this made me curious. is it just me not being able to HTFU? or is there something real going on?


A human on a bicycle produces approximately 350W to 400W of waste heat for every 100W delivered to the pedals.

If you are pedalling at 250 - 300W, then you are generating something like 900W to 1200W of heat energy, the same as an electric heater or hair dryer.

Unless you have an effective means of removing such waste heat energy at a sufficient rate, your core temp will rise and your body will have little choice but to reduce effort level.

Riding outside at a modest 30km/h means a 30km/h breeze flowing over our entire body providing significant assistance to removal of excess waste heat.

It's Training Stress Score, not Training Suffer Score.

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
Trev wrote:
300 watts for 30 minutes outside with all the cooling described by Alex, earns the same TSS as 300 watts for 30 minutes in a small humid room with no fan.

A perfect illustration of how TSS is not just flawed but utterly stupid.

AlexS wrote:
buzz wrote:

i just did a zwift race in a small humid room with no fan. new course with the 2 15+ min climbs. it was ... bad. really bad. and i sucked.

this made me curious. is it just me not being able to HTFU? or is there something real going on?


A human on a bicycle produces approximately 350W to 400W of waste heat for every 100W delivered to the pedals.

If you are pedalling at 250 - 300W, then you are generating something like 900W to 1200W of heat energy, the same as an electric heater or hair dryer.

Unless you have an effective means of removing such waste heat energy at a sufficient rate, your core temp will rise and your body will have little choice but to reduce effort level.

Riding outside at a modest 30km/h means a 30km/h breeze flowing over our entire body providing significant assistance to removal of excess waste heat.

It's Training Stress Score, not Training Suffer Score.

That is the usual stock answer thrown up to defend TSS. Amazing how fast you posted.

The fact is, if you are measuring training stress you should take into account how hard the session was. Heat is a stress, only fools would ignore its affect on performance. At least heart rate would reflect the extra stress caused by heat, humidity and lack of cooling, but then the mantra is ' when you know your power, heart rate is at best redundant but at worst misleading'.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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The key to managing heat stress and the cumulative effect of heat stress is maintaining cooler skin temperatures. Not only that but cooling the head, face, ears and neck is one of the most effective ways [areas] to lower heat stress and to accelerate the dissipation of heat by increasing the gap between core>blood>skin temp. The higher the gap between blood temp [high] and skin temp [low] the faster you will shed heat.

This is especially true when you're riding in full sunlight and the road is baking.

Simply physics.
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Re: how much does heat/humidity affect power (indoors, trainer, zwift) [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Buzz. Our coaches at APEX Coaching wrote something up on this very topic for us: https://thesufferfest.com/...ance-of-keeping-cool
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