OMG. the Maca totally stopped working for me - even wtih taking breaks so i got this stuff from Costco when i was back in teh US - let me find it... Estroven! I took that for a month or so, let's see....December, January, February and in March i got my period. It had been about 11 months since my last one and i was SURE i was in menopause but age 55 this year and Estroven killed the menopause. :) cycled again the past few days and have been off Estroven since March. Go figure. I have heard that OBs say the longer you cycle the less cancer risk so i dunno, i guess it is a good thing?

anyway, body really responded to Estroven FWIW. :)

oh, actually, at the triathlon in Cuba I found myself bleeding but only during the marathon and only that day and a little the next and i figured it had something to do with the event but maybe it was the Estroven. Just remembered that just now. So, maybe it worked in a month. dunno. just glad (in this tropical heat) not to have to deal with the flashes.

happy to see you got some results with Effexor - try the Estroven and see what happens.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

your body may have just been doing one last hurrah
that is what mine did
no supplements
no hormones
last period was september then in February hot flashes stopped boobs started to hurt and sure enough in March - bled like a stuck pig

hot flashes started up a couple of days ago

and I am now 5 pounds up from race weight

oh well

Thanks for telling me about Estroven. That may be my next step.

Hi sally - I know you wrote this months ago (at least, no year listed... but....)

I joined this forum because I wanted to respond to your post about the cost of your pills... assume you are talking about estrogen/progesterone combination pills. I also saw a cost (6 years ago) of $65/month... but the pharmacy suggested that I get the two items separately at a cost of $8.99 each (USD) estrogen, progesterone separately... rather than the expensive combination pill.

I hope this helps.

To share my story in case it is of any help to anyone else - i'm 59, started menopause 6 years ago as of Nov 2016-

I took estrogen alone because they mistakenly only gave me that at first (March 2011) and it eradicated my major symptoms in less than 10 days (thus I noticed the price jump when they gave me the combination pill).

I didn't like the progesterone because it made me tired all day long. Tried gels, bio-identical, etc.

My research showed (and my doc agreed) that a lose dose of estradiol (.25mg rather than .65) as prophylactic was ok for 4 years but then can cause increased risks if you have a uterus (agree with the person who said the WIH study - which used .65 - is a carwash).

Anyway - I tried to get re-evaluated after 4 years but moved and my 'new' docs kept leaving their practice.... so after 5.5 years I got tested and my endometrial lining increased to 12.2mm on ultrasound. The one I had a long time ago was .60-.70 (I can't find it but I remember. From my research 8-11mm is ok for taking low dose estradiol, but after that is an increased risk of various issues - so I went off it last month. After a month off, lining down to .71 (norm is .50). I anticipate no problem ....they'll do a biopsy next week.

But - I'm on this forum because night sweats returned once I quit the estrogen - in 2011 they were as vicious as the worst described here along with all the menopause symptoms you can find...but this time is still sweating through PJs and freezing several times a night, irritable, emotional, stressed..sleepless - but not as bad as before. Its worse when I'm stressed. Hmmm.

Among all the answers I've read in this forum, the one that popped out for me was to sleep in running shirts that wick away moisture so you don't have to take them off and freeze in a cool room with a fan on. (as my other half prefers) I did better in a warm room where I didn't freeze after sweating and could fall back asleep more easily, but life is a compromise.

I have tried melatonin (and anti-anxiety meds which do help but may affect memory)...I quit caffeine, and have not found any difference with or without alcohol which I quit for a long time. I did have my thyroid out this year, but I don't think that has been an issue. I didn't have any symptoms but they found a lump.

I have not tried the other things listed here:
Low-orgesteral
gabapentin
paraxotine
Divigel
adding lecithin capsules at night
not eating carbs at night
exercise only in the daytime
acupuncture
500mg capsule once a day of primrose oil and one 400mg of red clover
or Estroven -which I bought but then tossed out because of the black cohosh, which I know helps you sleep but can be hard on the liver

I had tried soy milk but it disagreed with me... I might try it again. I've made a list of the rest ....

Thank you all for your thoughts!

Wow, this is an oldie but goodie (thread, that is ;-)

I am now on the Wiley Protocol

http://thewileyprotocol.com/

It is considered controversial, because formerly, the thought of a menopausal woman going back to premenopausal estrogen/progesterone levels with menstrual cycles again was a fast road to cancer.

Aaaaand they're finding that's not so true anymore. Suzanne Somers and other actresses of a "certain age" have been very successful with this treatment. The difference in my skin and energy levels has been pretty dramatic. My caveat is that it isn't a pill or patch, it's cream that must be dosed twice daily in varying amounts.

It's not for everyone, but it's certainly worked well for me. I am already in the practice of taking morning and evening vitamins, etc. The creams (estrogen and progesterone) sit next to my tooth brush and vitamins, so I remember to do them all as a twice-daily ritual.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Thank you for your reply! Yes the majority do not have any problem. The WIH stopped the trials because there was an increased risk of cancer without the benefit (regarding heart attacks) that they expected.... but they didn't consider so many of the other well-being issues that women deal with in menopause... I think it should be up to each of us to take the risk of either estrogen, progesterone, or both. We pretty much have to manage our own medical care anyway.

I've only been off estrogen a month so I haven't noticed the difference with skin/hair, but energy has definitely fallen, weight gain... but then i know women who took nothing and did just fine, too...

Thank you again... I will look up http://thewileyprotocol.com/

A couple of interesting podcasts over on anothermotherrunner.com:

Menopause and Running - http://anothermotherrunner.com/...0-menopause-running/
and also related
How Sex Differences Affect Women's Running Performance and Recovery - http://anothermotherrunner.com/...1/20/244-stacy-sims/

It should ALSO be mentioned that the WHI study was based on synthetic HRT made with HORSE PEE= Premarin and Prometrium, Provera. Horrible stuff that we are NOT meant to have in our bodies. Bio identical HRT is the way to go !

Sally, how is the Wiley Protocol working for you ??? I read her book "Sex, Lies, and Menopause" which I really liked !! A little bit out there but I liked it ! I do bio identical creams, but I'm not on her protocol.

Still use it and love it! I won't lie, having a period again is kind of a PITA. I've dealt with that for most of my years on Earth, so really, no big deal. I sleep better, I've lost fat, my skin and hair look and feel healthier; what's not to love-oh, the period 😉

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DFL > DNF > DNS

So true about WIH.

I am now back on estradiol, but using a .0375 patch (they say .05 is the norm).

Update on my post from last November - I found my whole history notes:
March 2011 - .5 estradiol pills started (see prev post for details)
July 2012 - endometrium 10.9mm so cut dose in half (still helped symptoms a LOT)
March 2013 - endometrium 7.7 (should not be over 11mm)
Oct 2016 - endometrium thickened to 12.2 (no symptoms). Doc panicked - stopped estrogen - all symptoms returned with a vengence in 2 weeks.
Dec 22, 2016 - finally started .05 estradiol patch with 100mg progesterone
Dec 2016 - surgical DnC showed a polyp which is why doc said lining had thickened. All tissue normal.
Feb 2017 - stopped progesterone, made me sleep better but drowsy in day, so they said I had to take norethindrone in a high does every 3-4 months if I want to stay on estradiol
March 2017 - started .0375 patch ... prefer to take lowest dose possible and there doesn't seem to be much difference.

The patch is supposed to be healthier than the pill because it doesn't go through your system the same way, but I'm forced to take the norethindrone to shed the lining because of WIH even though it doesn't seem to apply to me. I was supposed to do this in May but I have too many things going on that month, so I'll try it for the first time in early June.

Has anyone else used this routine with the patch or norethindrone?

Hope I am not too nosey , but do you remember which anti-depressent caused anxiety?
I am guessing Well butrin? All the rest just made me sleepy and hungry.

Since her post is from 2013, you may be waiting a while...my guess would be Prozac or a generic equivalent (ex-husband is a psychiatrist and I was on it myself in the 1990's).

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DFL > DNF > DNS

it is horse pee from a pregnant horse. that is collected in a cruel disgusting way. and many of the foals born are killed as soon as they are born. another reason not to use premarin and prometrium.

Sally: that is so great that you're doing well on the Wiley protocol !!! It makes a lot of sense what she suggests to do, and I really did want to try it but I couldn't find anybody in my area that knew about it believe it or not...... I'm doing ok so far I guess on the creams that I am using & my oral progesterone at night, and it's been almost 3 years !!!

Timberdick: yup...... just horrible crap in every sense ! I can't believe it's still on the market to be honest !!!! Big pharma at its finest :-(

Tales: I personally would avoid any synthetic hormones & norethindrone is one of them.
They just really screw with our bodies.

Effexor was also mentioned in this thread. Also bad ! At the end of the day you have to remember we have all these problems because in menopause we're losing our hormones that we once had that kept us healthy vibrant...... so in order to try and stay healthy and not have these horrible feelings we should replace what we're losing. We're definitely not having hot flashes because of a lack of Effexor..... yes it may help, but it's just bad for us.

All of the other stuff mentioned that helps, it's just masking our symptoms.

I see that you're in the Sunshine state, but it doesn't list where. My doctor, who accepted my insurance, moved to Palm Beach Gardens, FL. His name is Dr. Jeffrey Brown, DO. The Wiley Protocol website lists other physicians who are trained in the protocol.

It's a sign of the times that doctors don't seem to try much that's different if it opens them up to potentially more liability, even if the procedure has potential to help many people get back to a normal night's rest, etc.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Sally ! No way ! I work in Palm Beach Gardens in live in the town north of there- Jupiter !!!!
I'm totally calling that guy !
Hahahahaha !!

Please tell him Sally Sawyer says hello from "Fabulous Las Vegas"!

Glad I could help!

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DFL > DNF > DNS

YOU'RE THE BESTEST <3

Timber - totally agree...horrific...

Cassidy - I appreciate your perspective but avoiding taking drugs doesn't solve my problem. I went off unopposed estrogen last fall after 5+ years on an incredibly low dose with absolutely no problems. My symptoms returned and were again completely debilitating. Perhaps you didn't have such a severe experience. Now I've just lost my job but I hope to negotiate to keep my insurance at least til the end of the year so uninsured treatments are out. Plus, I had my thyroid removed last year and I'm still stabilizing, so I don't want to take anything homeopathic either.

All the (multiple) doctors I've dealt with since moving here cite WIH and do not treat people like individuals (I thought Oregon would be more progressive but NOT - it is the worst medical practice of anywhere I've lived). They insist I either take progesterone daily or norethindrone once every few months to stimulate shedding the uterine lining. I could lie and say I'm taking it. However, I would like to be able to trust medical advice and have an honest relationship with my providers... thus my research here...

My question again - has anyone else used this drug / routine? (estradiol patch or pill with norethindrone every few months)

My sister's family lives not far from Jupiter. They're not old enough for menopause, but good to know!

Taless...I'm not saying avoid ALL HRT....just synthetic (norethindrone)

And trust me, when menopause/peri hit me it was BAD. Hot flashes ALL DAY AND NIGHT......heart palpitations, panic attacks....I wanted to kill myself. NO ONE I spoke to had it as bad as I did.

The problem with our "experts" and doctors is that unless they're doing the research, these doctors rely on information given to them by big pharma....so they just prescribe what they think will work for you based on what they're told. Very sad. A lot of them are VERY uninformed and misinformed.

I'm sorry you're having a rough time out there. Taking bio identical progesterone daily should be OK.

In your original post back in November you didn't specify what hormones you were taking ? Synthetic or bioidentical ? You did write this "I didn't like the progesterone because it made me tired all day long. Tried gels, bio-identical, etc" WHAT progesterone were you taking and how much ???
What bio identicals were you doing ? ONLY gels ?? (they're not so great because they cause a spike in the hormone when you use it as opposed to a cream 2x a day)

"My research showed (and my doc agreed) that a lose dose of estradiol (.25mg rather than .65) as prophylactic was ok for 4 years but then can cause increased risks if you have a uterus (agree with the person who said the WIH study - which used .65 - is a carwash)." WHAT estradiol are you referring to here also ? If it's any synthetic (premarin) , then yes absolutely sadly :-(

But if you are doing any estradiol you need the progesterone if you still have a uterus. (I'm sure you know this)

But seriously if anyone is telling you that you HAVE TO take norethindrone then you need new doctors !!

Hi Cassidy -

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I'm sorry you went through as bad a time as I did. My own mother wouldn't pick up the phone for months and we usually talk at least weekly.

I did not keep really good records (perhaps for obvious reasons) when menopause first started. I don't know what the gels were, except that they were bioidentical progesterone. I was not given creams. I had progesterone pills but I do not have any details.

I did go to a naturopath last fall but found out that was not covered by my insurance, so have to decline going that route.

I have never taken premarin. The name of the drug is estradiol (both pills starting in 2012 and transdermal patch starting recently).

You said " if you are doing any estradiol you need the progesterone if you still have a uterus. (I'm sure you know this) " However, that determination was made because of WIH, which some of us believe is debatable. Lets not debate that. My doctor up north agreed, but the doctors here do not. They insist on daily progesterone or norethindrone every few months. That is the choice I was given. I was also advised, after having my thyroid out, not to do a lot of experimentation because the thyroid and other hormones interact and we need to get the thyroid stabilized.

Anyway, I take it no one here has tried norethindrone. Thank you anyway for the conversation!

Taless....it just frustrates me because I wish I could help you !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know what it's like to suffer and it's HORRIBLE :-(
WE have to be our own advocates when it comes to what's going on in our bodies...I remember reading something when I was doing all of my research 3 years ago & it said: there are 40 million women going through menopause this year....and there are 40 million different symptoms :-(

I mean we all get similar stuff, but we are all different too.......