I think if you are going to position yourself such that you leave an 8 foot gap to your right, you better remain prepared for someone to ride through it. I certainly would.

I kind of viewed it as if there were two lanes, the road and the shoulder. There were times where the shoulder was a lot smoother then the road and I rode on the shoulder, but made sure that I was all the way to right hand side of the shoulder so people could pass me on the left without having to navigate the nasty rumble strip on the B Line.

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I agree, being prepared is appropriate, but my point was that its illegal and dangerous for people to pass on the right. I wasn't talking about myself being passed, I was talking about folks on their 2nd lap that were being passed by significantly faster riders from both sides. That rumble strip caused confusion for some and on several occasions, it seemed like the rider being passed didn't know where to go.

I have not competed in IMAZ, but based on other comments is sounds like there is a wide shoulder. In which case, the rule is:

f. Position. Except for reasons of safety and when no advantage is gained, all cyclists shall keep to the right of

the prescribed course unless passing.

So if you are riding on the white line, and there is 8 feet of good shoulder to your right, you are blocking. Yes?

Paul

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

I was one of the peeps passing on the right but my view was of you were riding on or near the white line you were in the middle of the road and there was 8ft to pass on either side. I both passed and got passed on the right, I would say in most tris this is not the norm but usually there is not that much room. It's like passing someone on the right who is doing 55 in a 75 zone driving in the fast lane.:)

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It was a pain in the A@@ to swerve between the rumble strips to pass on the left, when people stayed in the main road lanes, but I didn't want a penalty,so...... The interesting thing is that there was WAY less rolling resistance in the bike lane and, I think, slightly less turbulence from the cross gusts.

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I didn't hear of any penalties for using the shoulder to pass. It seems to me that if you're riding in the shoulder, which I did a lot of, it's safer to remain there and pass those out in the lane (on their right), rather than abruptly navigate the rumble strip, ride up the one inch new asphalt layer, pass the slower rider on the left, then abruptly get back on the shoulder. To do that, you also needed to take a quick glance behind you to assure you won't run into anyone coming up on you. That, by itself can throw your line off and with the wind, be even more precarious. Best to hold as consistent line as possible.

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>>Except for reasons of safety and when no advantage is gained, all cyclists shall keep to the right of

>>the prescribed course unless passing.

One thing I'd be interested to know, with regard to the position rule is this: If a full lane of road is available and closed to traffic, is the shoulder (separated by deep rumble strips) considered part of the prescribed course?

We have some pretty ugly/deap rumble strips here in CO that you don't want to hit going 25mph in aero bars with expensive race wheels. I think an argument can be made that some people didn't feel safe crossing them therefor were within their right to sit on the white line 'for reasons of safety'.

The shoulder certainly was faster, not doubt about that.

At all the races I have been to, the shoulder has been described as part "part of the course".

The only oddity I have seen in this regard is at the Harvest Moon HIM, which uses Interstate 70 for part of the course. A lane is closed and there is a wide shoulder seperated from the road by a rumble strip. At that race, the lane is actually not part of the course and only provided as a buffer. Everyone has to stay to the right while in the shoulder to allow passing exclusively within the shoulder.

Since it sounds like there were no blocking penalties issued, the referees may agree that crossing the rumble strip was a safety issue. However, I would have guessed they were trying to accomplish the same thing as above, and that is that the shoulder was to be the primary cyclinf area with the closed lane providing the buffer. Sounds like an issue to clarify at the next pre-race meeting for IMAZ.

Paul

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

i passed several times on the right due to the slower riders hugging the white line on the shoulder. i was worried about a penalty at first, but after my first encounter with the rumble bumps i didnt care about the penalty after that. i agree with the rolling resistance on the shoulder so i stayed there until i need to pass multi people. the scary folks were the ones in the aero position barely pedaling into the hindwind and veering all over the place.

did anyone dare stop to pickup some free tubulars on the road? it was like christmas out there!!!!

also, did anyone see the guy hit the metal sign on the bridge heading back into tempe? i was finishing my first lap when the sign blew in front of the guy in front of me while he had his head down. he hit the sign and both him and his bike went flipping into the air. it was an ugly scene and by the next lap there were sandbags on the sign.

I was also very happy with the lack of drafting towards the FOP. I was also under the impression that it was being treated like two lanes by the athletes. The inside track was smoother but more debris present. The road was rough but less debris. I had no problem having people pass on the right and/or passing people on the right.

That being said, after I had mechanical issues at mile 90 of the bike that delayed me 1-hour, drafting was more prevalent amongst the MOP riders. No big deal from my perspective given these folks were not in contention for Kona slots. I just laughed under by breath. How could they consider their effort a true Ironman.

Jim

I agree.

I also thought I was seeing more debris in the shoulder than the road, so I tended to avoid it, but maybe it you could just see the debris on the shoulder surface better.

Re: drafting. I didn't see too much, but the worst was getting passed by 2 packs of 4-5 guys on the way back into Tempe on the 3rd loop. I was really struggling (weren't we all?) but still passing people, and then these guys would fly by me one at a time and group together again and take off. I yelled at one group to break it up but to no avail. You just have to let it go, race your own race, and not waste any energy on being angry at them for cheating.

I rode the BeeLine almost entirely in the road and not the shoulder for a number of reasons. For one, I was always passing and didn't want to be continuously crossing the rumble strips, which were just put in the week before the race, I might add. Second, living here in Phoenix and riding the BeeLine weekly, I know how much junk accumulates in the shoulder and was going to take advantage of the road being cleaner albiet rougher. Ironically, I flatted right before McDowell while in the road, so that didn't work out so good for me. Regardless, I only was forced to make a right side pass once or twice when I would come upon riders going 2 abreast and too far to the left or one rider in one of the more narrow sections too far left. Apparently peoples hearing failed them and my cries of on your left were not heard. Once to make a legal pass, I had to go around a cone briefly into the oncoming lane.
In regards to the drafting, once the wind picked up, little clumps did form, but nothing too bad at all. I got stuck behind a larger rider on McClintock heading south into the headwind where it was narrow and crowded. We were both overtaking and I got close to him. My HR dropped of a cliff and I was solidly in his draft. As soon as we had open road, I pushed up hard along side him and asked (we had spoken before out on the BeeLine, he was a cool guy) if I could get infront beciuase I had no room to drop back 4 legnths and was in his draft. He let me go ahead and he held behind me.

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It was faster and it was confusing. AND, close passing could result in an accident, if a big crosswind gust hit at that moment.

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

"also, did anyone see the guy hit the metal sign on the bridge heading back into tempe? i was finishing my first lap when the sign blew in front of the guy in front of me while he had his head down. he hit the sign and both him and his bike went flipping into the air. it was an ugly scene and by the next lap there were sandbags on the sign."

I almost got forced into one of the BIG (4 footers) downed cones (blown over), by a guy that passed me and veered right before he had completed the pass. That was interesting. I missed the cone by about an inch. I let him know I wasn't pleased to be forced into the cone.

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

There was no choice but to pass on the right. I tried the swerving over to the left numerous times and hitting the rumble strips or a quick turn in the small spots where there were no rumble strips, combined with the strong winds, caused a more dangerous situation than passing on the right. The only issue I had was people on the shoulder that were not staying right but mostly everyone moved to the right with a good yell.

Drafting was pretty good except for the spots where they left you no choice but to draft.

I think the guy that got hit by the sign ended up finishing the race with 3 cracked ribs!
Regarding drafting on the course, I didn't see much of it at all until I was coming back into town on my last lap. I passed a pack of riders and then they passed me again. I decided to drop way back to avoid them. They started to break up after about 2 miles, so I was able to pass them again. I was surprised to not see more drafting on a day like that!

This is a really good thread. Its interesting to see how different folks interpreted the rules in the heat of battle.

I was one of the people that was riding in the shoulder and would then move out to the left of the strips to pass. The one time I had an issue was when I was getting ready to move left to pass a slower rider, a rider passed me on my left, but right of the third person. The person that was just passed on the right swerved away and right into my path as I was approaching from the left to make a legal pass. not sure if that all makes sense. ;) The swurve (admittedly the fault of the slower rider) was initially caused by the person passing on the right.

Maybe its not as dangerous as i perceived it to be, or it could be one of those things that will get attention when someone gets hurt.

What is also interesting is that people 'interpret' this rule at all. No passing on the right means no passing on the right. It isn't "no passing on the right except where the road conditions are bad". If the road sucks then maybe they shouldn't be having a race there.
This is the same type of logic peole use to justify drafting. "Oh, well, everyone else was drafting around me so I couldn't HELP but draft as well." Baloney. You either follow the rules or you don't.

I didnt see anything on post above that contained the rules that it was illegial to pass on the right, there was no 'advantage' to doing it other than it was safer that weaving in and out of the rumble strips. Maybe I 'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

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[reply]I didnt see anything on post above that contained the rules that it was illegial to pass on the right, there was no 'advantage' to doing it other than it was safer that weaving in and out of the rumble strips. Maybe I 'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time.[/reply]

Well it sounds to me like it would be significantly faster since each time you hit a rumble strip, it would slow you down. So sitting on the shoulder with no strips would be faster.
I could be wrong as well and I am too lazy to look up the actual rule.

What issues did you have that sidelined you for an hour?

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Hold your line !

not only was it a pain, it was dangerous as hell because you had so little space between each set of rumble strips.

I also passed on the right, but only because I was overtaking slower riders who were riding on the white line, which put them smack into the middle of the bike lane. I had initially attempted to go from the smooth shoulder to the left of these riders, in order to pass 'legally' but gave up because of the danger of going over the rumble strips.