Haha!

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

i can't believe you. that's an all time low--you bastard, you.

punishment starts at 6pm.

I'm guessing that Mr. Tibbs will be there at 5:45

he likes the punnishment - it encourages his behavior, so be careful -

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

seriously, I need some insights. I'm sick of Tibbs getting the spotlight all the time...that bastard!

well I'm no doc so my advice on injury recovery/prevention is worthless, but...

sound like you love all that surrounds an 'athletic lifestyle', correct?

Runing is the part that is hurting you, correct???

If the above two are correct then how about,

1. find a really good sports doc and sports therapist and follow a long term recovery plan,

2. ditch the running for now,

3. work you swim and bike - if it fits in with the recovery plan

4. do some swim only open water races, do some bike racing and cap the whole thing off with a couple aquabike races this year -

5. volunteer at some tri only events

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

how do you know that's what's causing your pain?

I can't run for more than 30 minutes w/o knee pain. MRI was normal. Did some ankle exercises that helped a little.
I never stretch though -- can't touch my toes or keep my back straight when bending over.

Sorry to change the subject away from Tibbs (love ya Tibbsy), but I hear ya, kittycat! My first two years of tri, I ended each season with stress fractures. Makes you wonder. Keep at it! I've run for a whole year now without injury (knock on wood) and it's starting to pay off. I'm getting faster and more comfortable all the time!

Cam

i know what's causing my pain because I invested in a terrific doc, and therapy. over the past 2 years I've spent about 6 months in therapy. it's the exact same symptoms, and is the same problem. that's how I know...so, it's like, here we go again!!

my dentist (I know, he's a dentist), said, if you hit your head with a hammer and it hurts, why do you want to keep hitting your head with a hammer? (if running hurts, then why do you want to keep running?) guess he doesn't get it...lol. but, after 2 or 3 years of this, I'm beginning to listen. I'm torn. guess I dont have to make a decision today though...

robb, honey, inflexibility is probably your big problem.

work on that. i bet your problems will go away. there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to bend over and touch your toes...i guarantee inflexibility is the root of your problems. it's the number one causes of runner's injuries. muscular imbalance second.

Hate to say this but I think your self assessment is right in refocusing your efforts on other athletic endeavors for awhile.

I was a runner and swimmer in high school (1970) but after a particularly brutal forest fire season in 1975 I had to give up running. Bicycling, somebody with physical therapy knowledge will have to explain this, helped correct whatever knee and hip damage I had and in the early '90s started running without pain. During the time away from running my dad & I got into canoe racing... I found it fulfilled that need to compete.

I think, from the tone of what you write, you'll find that competitive drive served by other sports. Good luck and be patient.
Jay

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Jay

Your handle is too cool to see disappear.

Have you had an MRI? You mention tight hammys, etc. How about getting some MAJOR flexibility?

Running is overrated anyway. Take the season off, become a real swimmer and/or a real cyclist. Then return to running in a year. You'll probably be faster than you were before after just a couple months of running thanks to the heavier bike/swim work. I'm close to making the same decision, but for the swim (shoulder problems).

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Oh Kittycat! This is so sad. The day comes when all of us have to re-examine the benefits and burdens of this lifestyle. I have been there, too. Just when I was ready to give up, after multiple knees surgeries and constant pain, a new treatment came on the market and really turned things around. It was my second chance. I hope something like this can happen for you.

If it is just tight muscles, muscle imbalance, how come the therapy isn't working? I know that I tend to slack on my therapy when things start feeling good. Then I have this "come to Jesus" moment when things start to hurt and I pick back up with what I was suppose to do all along. Anything like that?

My 2 cents- Give yourself permission to let it go for a season, or part of a season and try some other things. Maybe you'll find something else that will fill the void. Or maybe you'll realize how much you love and miss these and that you are willing to "suffer" a bit longer:)

shoes. it is all about shoes. Too often people have the wrong footwear because they feel they have to buy it not need it. Shoes I say.

I did the same thing for 2 years and got the same pains... then I went somewhere else and learned the real problem. I too thought my docs were the shit, but they aren't perfect. We were all hell bent on solving what we thought the original problem was, and irritated when it wouldn't get better.

So don't be married to fixing A certain problem, be open to solving the real problem, whatever it may be. There is at least a 1% chance your doc is wrong, medicine is an art.

you've got it right. when I slack on the therapy it hurts. here I am again. when I feel good I get cocky, and then BAM, here's a little pain to keep me grounded.

you're right. when I don't do the therapy continually, here I am, and here I will be until I can not be such a stubborn puddytat.

thanks trikitty...meow.

kc

How about your running technique? Heel striker?

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Sorry if I missed this earlier but what exactly is your knee injury? Tendonitis?

Might I be so bold as to recommend you consider creating and then building upon your own visualization therapy to supplement your medical science professional's program(s).

What the mind can conceive, the body will create. I have had several injuries, including current recovery process from complex meniscus tear and subsequent arthroscopic repair. My visualization techniques are kinda wild, but I know the process works. Have you ever hit "The Zone" while training or racing? Can you easily create a picture based on text that you read? If you can answer yes to either, the chances are great you can create your own therapy to help get things turned around.

I learned some of the basics from a Psychologist who works primarily with cancer patients. I am very visual. I adapted to what he described and all I can say is there is a lot of power behind this process based on your level of acceptance. I sometimes offer a short experiment with my Spinning classes to illustrate. One of the easiest goes like this...however a bit is lost in translation by reading rather than hearing it. Create a picture of standing in your kitchen. Use a large knife to cut a lemon into quarters. Take one of those quarters and bring it up to your mouth. Open your mouth and place that lemon quarter between your teeth. Slowly bite into the lemon and feel the juices flowing over your tongue and into your mouth. And just let the lemon juice linger for a moment or two.

Now...are you salivating a bit more than before you created the picture? Maybe a lot? In a large percentage of the cases....the answer is a definite yes.

All you are going to do is expand on that process in a fashion directed at whatever physically is going on. I'll leave it at that but I can offer a few more specifics in terms of related data if you want to give it a closer look.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

Lots of advice here, but talking sense, I'm not too sure. Having to quit running is what got me into the other two things here (biking and swimming) I can remember the day that I sat down and made the decsion to quit. It hurt, I was getting slower and it just wasn't fun anymore. I really did wonder how I would handle it mentally. Would I end up like Tibbs; it was scary! Now I train with tri-club here and swim or bike a relay leg a couple of times during the season. If it's the best I can do I'll take it. Training with them the last couple of years has helped deal with the mental part of not running.

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Rebuilt with twice as many titanium parts as Portland79.

[reply]shoes. it is all about shoes. Too often people have the wrong footwear because they feel they have to buy it not need it. Shoes I say.[/reply]

I can second that. Also there are a number of tightness issues that you might not be aware of (and your PT might miss) that can cause all sorts of knee and hip problems. But by far the biggest is having the right pair of shoes. After 6 months on one pair my right hip was shot, and I have had to cut back to a lot of shorter, medium-speed runs for the last 8 months. Things are slowly improving, but I found that the key is to have the shoes that just absolutely "feel right" when you land. Pay special attention to the forces on your ankles, knee and hip. A shoe that doesn't "ride" straight with your legs will wreak havoc with your joints. My pair was pushing my knee inwards, putting excessive strain on the ITB and gluteus medius to try to stabilize my hip/knee. This wasn't evident except on really long runs when I was worn out, so it took a few months to figure out. Unfortunately I can't describe exactly how the "right" shoes feel, but what I needed was something that was a little softer/more cushioning in the outer heel. It sounds like from your problem that you might need the opposite, so something like a Mizuno Wave Rider might work. My inflammation was on the outside of the knee from the shoe pushing my knee inwards...yours could be caused by the shoe trying to push your knee to the outside when you land. Don't give up just because of bad equipment! :)

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Are you hitting 90 steps per minute for each foot strike?

I've heard all the great ones suggest hitting this threshold, at a minimum, when you run.
Even Dave Scott. He recommends acting like you are stepping on hot coals to make yourself pull your foot up faster.

Watch the Kenyans on TV and count their steps per minute as the TV coverage follows them. They are hitting about 103 steps per minute, consistently.

But, 90 is the recommended threshold to improve efficiency and reduce probability of injury.

There's no silver bullet, but at least go out on your next run and count how many steps per minute you are hitting today. The suggestion to increase your turnover might help.

Good luck,

that's interesting about the shoes. naturally I hardly roll my foot in at all. so i wear a neutral shoe and it's Asics Cumulous (however it's spelled). i get new ones every 10-12 weeks, as I'm a heavier woman at 160 and believe in keeping up with the shoes. these have been choosen with the assistance of a shoe professional at my LRSS (local running shoe shop).

in all honesty, it's the hamstrings...I know it is. they're overdeveloped in comparison to my quads and the squats I've done recently probably brought up some of that tightness...plus no stretching.

after reading all of your replies, I don't think I need to quit, but realize I do need to keep up my therapy work no matter how good I'm feelig...I made the same mistake of not continuing the at home thereapy right before my 1/2 last summer and it was miserable. dummy me!!

I think this is your problem, kittycat. At 160 for a woman, age 30 as I recall, it is pretty predictable that you are going to have some kind of overuse injury from running.

I am pushing 50, and I have been trying to stay in one piece for run training for five years now. I actually seem to be running injury free now, knock on wood.

Part of the solution is losing the weight. Dropping even 10 pounds greatly reduces the pounding.

I guess my advice is patience. Keep trying to run. When you get injured, stop running until you finish healing. Slowly lose the weight. This whole process could easily take a couple of years. The reason most of us do triathlon is that we break, if we do only one sport. Having three usually allows us to train in the other sports when we are injured from running.