[reply]but I have never had any problem pulling the zipperless top off.[/reply]

I have. I got a T1 when they first came out and have both the sleeveless and long sleeve. Long story short: the sleeveless was near impossible to get off. The long sleeve was difficult at times. I've lost time in races struggling to get the top off. Desoto put zippers in both for a small fee and they work great. I really love the T1

I guess what I should have said was, why not both? I know some people have problems with it, but I like the no zipper.

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I am in hunt for a new wetsuit at the moment - totally bought into the 2 piece concept and as such rented a de soto and I just couldn't get the correct fit - the top seemed to ride up on me - continually had to pull it down on the hips - major neck hickies (i wish:)) - and felt the shoulders were hindered severly - tried an zoot and seemed way better - planning on trying an xterra as well - won't be dropping the cash unless I can swim comfortable in one. I have been swimming a fair while in life plus been in a wetsuit for around 6 yrs

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http://www.endurancesports.ca
Coaching and Training Camps

I thought they did make them in both. I must be wrong. At any rate, there is no extra time or energy involved in having the zipper. It's much easier for me to get off. Which brings up the question why some people have problems getting the tops off and some don't. Flexibility? Back too wide for top? Who knows...

[reply] I just couldn't get the correct fit - the top seemed to ride up on me - continually had to pull it down on the hips - major neck hickies (i wish:)) - and felt the shoulders were hindered severly [/reply]

That's odd, in that the whole idea behind the 2 piece is that it should eliminate those problems. Oh well, as they say, what works for one may not work for another.

I was thinking of upgrading to the new suit and didn't see a non zipper version on the website.

Unless one has shoulder issues, I don't see what the big deal is about no zipper, just like a tee shirt, tuck your elbow into the bottom and flip it over your head.

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On another note in the article.. I have worn an Ironman Stealth for about 4 years and have often suspected that the textured forearm panels in my suit were of no value. Now I'm concerned that they are actually slower than a non textured version. Time for a new suit?

my long winded point was like bike fit, saddles and most other things - do your homework as fit is everything...

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http://www.endurancesports.ca
Coaching and Training Camps

[reply] do your homework as fit is everything...[/reply]

It is.

I don't see ribs on the forearms of those speedo fastskins, do you?

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your wetsuit with the forearm panels may be slower, or it may not, than a wetsuit without the panels, but it is still faster than no wetsuit at all.

I have swam in an IM wetsuit, Xterra and a QR (non panels) this year. The panels on the IM actually felt like I was pulling a ton of water compared to the Xterra's panels. edit: I have no qualitiative data only subjective data regarding the panels. I can't compare to the QR though. Previously I was only swimming 4k per week, but since I've had the QR I've been swimming at least 10k per week.

The shoulder area in the QR is the most flexible and offers the least inhibition of my stroke of all the wetsuits that I swam in this year.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I really like the article on ST on wetsuits. For all of the DeSoto wetsuits are the legs both 5MM on both T-1 suits? This was a very interesting part of the article. I know when I swim my legs do sink without a wetsuit on. Also, it seems that almost all full wetsuits do feel restrictive in the upper body, at least for me, which make my swim feel really uncomfortable. The range of motion is key. Any info on the T-1 suits legs, both 5mm?

Never swam in a T1. This year only QR, Xterra and Ironman. The QR is the least restrictive suit I've ever worn or tired on, no shoulder restriction what so ever for me. Sorry I can't be more help.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I thought ironman did have a two piece about three or four years ago, I can remeber Cam Brown and Bryan Rhodes using it at Ironman NZ.
I heard Ironman dropped it because the stealth proved to be faster in testing.
You never seem to hear about the ironman two piece now, anyone know what the story behind it was?

"Any info on the T-1 suits legs, both 5mm?"

T1 has 5mm legs all the way to the ankle

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You can't make ribs on fastskin, because it has no thickness, unlike neoprene. However, from SpeedoUSA.com, "Flexskin panel on inner forearm has a titanium silicon scale that neutralizes the drag." Those are the FSII version of the "ribs" you see on wetsuits.

http://www.speedousa.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.detail/categoryID/e74a446e-3eef-45b2-b202-9efd9d712989/productID/bc1c5c61-afcc-4270-bedf-c9b530c60340/

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

right, but that's different than saying that forearms "grab" the water, making it a more powerful pull.

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FINA may prevent the addition of such a feature on suits.

And I've never seen any real "evidence" that those ribs or rough panels really do anything anyway...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Was hoping the article would be more conclusive with testing and data; however, I would agree that responsibility belongs to the manufacturers to test and releast performance data.

I have done my own informal testing and came to the following, unscentific, conclusions:

Using T1 top and bottom, I was able to consistently knock 10 second off each 100 repeat in a pool over swimming without a wetsuit.

Using T1 bottoms only, I was able to consistently knock 9 seconds off each 100 repeat in a pool over swimming without a wetsuit.

(Putting the suit on while wet was a pain in the bunghole.)

A peer of mine performed the same test w/ the same results of only a single second slower when not using the T1 top and only using the T1 bottoms. (note that he is an excellent swimmer and only has marginal gains when wearing a wetsuit. Any wetsuit.)

But, the results were conclusive. Using only the T1 bottoms yielded a 9 second per 100 yard performance improvement.

Since water temps in Florida and Georgia (area where I live and race) rarely go below 70 degrees, I pretty much only use the T1 bottoms for racing. And since its hot as hell here for most of the year, I never overheat when wearing just the bottoms.

Brian

You're right. We did make a two-piece suit but stopped making it in 2001. Why? In testing it was slower than the newer model Stealth we were bringing out.

We know that the concept of a two piece has merit - it makes sense, but in practice it didn't work out. Managing the overlap of the bib and the top created issues and required the most flexible of rubber. Shiromoto make a two-piece that some rate highly but it's off the charts in cost with a custom fit and very expensive rubber.

There's still the issue of removing the damned thing! At the end of a swim the muscles used in taking it off are the ones that having just been flailing away. I've taken a lot of photos and whilst there's a knack to removing a suit, it's a hassle we think you could do without.

Rhodes and Faris Al Sultan were two of the last athletes to switch, but at the end of the day think about it this way...if our athletes were faster in the fusion, they wouldn't make the switch as they'll take every bit that will get them out the swim more quickly.

There is a place for a two-piece, and that's for the athlete who wants a different top and bottom size, or someone who wants the flexibility to wear only the bib...but for everyone else the one piece suits work best.

All that said - the only true way to find out what works and what doesn't is to put on the suits and go for a swim.

tim
Ironman Wetsuits

http://www.digitaltriathlon.com/search-imgview.asp?subject=rhodes&event=&category=&orientation=&keywords=&offset=25
http://www.digitaltriathlon.com/search-imgview.asp?subject=sultan&event=&category=&orientation=&keywords=&offset=14

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Tim
blue seventy / nuun / digitaltriathlon.com

Interesting I am getting a new suit next year and this is good stuff.

thanks.

"Why? In testing it was slower than the newer model Stealth we were bringing out."

no doubt. your stealth was a really nice suit. your fusion was a really horrible suit. the fusion was mostly a keith simmons project, and it was a bad product from the get go. keith never understood the two-piece idea. he still doesn't.

"but for everyone else the one piece suits work best."

i guess i'm just arrogant enough to believe that i designed the world's best one-piece suit (a QR superfull from 1992 will equal or beat any one-piece made today) and i designed the world's best two-piece. which is better? simple. the two-piece.

add this: when you take into consideration that de soto has no competition, and there are no other brains out there trying to make a better two-piece, then one wonders just how much better a two-piece would be if there was truly a competitive environment.

within five years you guys will AGAIN be making a two-piece (i have no doubt this time it will be a very good one), and those who aren't keeping up with the joneses will be among the few remaining companies trying to flog a design that's long in the tooth.

most one-piece companies in the world can't even make a longjohn as good as the T1 bibjohn. it's probably the most comfortable, fastest-off LJ going today. when you add that this is also a fullsuit when need be, it's hard to beat that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

There is a place for a two-piece, and that's for the athlete who wants a different top and bottom size, or someone who wants the flexibility to wear only the bib...but for everyone else the one piece suits work best.

Bull. Do you say that because you don't have one? First, I am not affiliated with any wetsuit company. I am an average , reasonably shaped person in probably average physical condition. I don't have the same flexibility I had when I was younger and I have no problem removing the top of my two peice suit. EVER.

In addition, I don't have cold water creeping up my back because I have no zipper in my suit. I wish my scuba wetsuit had this feature. I like my two peice suit so much, I've even thought about turning it inside out and wearing it for scuba.

If my post reads a little harsh in tone, I'm sorry, I appreciate your comments. It's just that I obviously think your wrong and I'd bet I can get my suit off faster than an average Ironman wearer.

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Why in the world would you make only one leg out of 5mm? Strictly for side strokers?

(just kidding)

Styrrell