yes. My opinion is use clinchers. And they are probably safer anyway.

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

Well I've been racing since I was 19. I know the same number of people who have rolled a clincher, no, scratch that, even more people who have rolled a clincher- than have rolled a tubular.

Here's a hint: Look at the TT bikes in the Tour.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I have been racing since I was 20. I have never ever met anyone who has rolled a clincher.

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

Robert Akers, owner, International house of Bicycles on Middlebelt Road in Livonia, Michigan.

Kevin Collins, Dave (Superdave) Koesel, Wally Catanach, Charlie McCall......

That's just off the top of my head. I've never rolled either, but then again, I've never even flatted a tubular.

Actually, I think Cullen Watkins on this forum rolled one at the Mike Walden Memorial Velodrone last year- not certain. Perhaps Cullen on this forum can confirm or deny this.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

We haven't met, but here's one right here. Rolled a clincher (Vittoria something or other, can't remember).

I do ride both though - train on clinchers (Michelin ProRace) since I ride around a lot of debris and roads for many long 2-6 hours rides and a flat clincher is much easier to handle. Race exclusively on tubulars (Conti Sprinters and/or Tufo s3) though and carry nothing extra.

---

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

You are a lot more likely to roll a flat clincher than a flat tubular. I ride tubulars in races because, in order of preference, they flat less often, they change faster, in carrying a spare tubular I have both a spare tube and tire, and they are much safer when flat. I've rolled a flat clincher off the rim (you may as well let it roll off anyway, it isn't doing anything for you when flat) but have never rolled a tubular, flat or full. I think the risk of rolling a full tubular is overblown if you maintain and check your equipement properly. I can't corner like Lance and he trusts them down the Alps, heated glue and all. Beloki might have a different story though :-)

If you count having the kevlar bead pull out of the clincher, causing it to seperate and the tube to explode, then I have "rolled" a full clincher at least 3 times that I can think of. I have been racing since I was 18 and I am now 36. There you go!

I'm not worried about the safety aspect of either type since I've trained on clinchers and raced on tubulars for a long time and haven't ever rolled either type (touch wood!). I just ran the info through their mathematical model using approx 86 kg for bike/rider weight, a speed of 10 m/s (36 km/h) and 120 psi and the "time behind at distance covered" graph shows over 2 minutes for a premium tubular compared to the clincher. This seems pretty far fetched to me but if it is even 1/2 of that it would seem that riders like me that have been using tubulars are doing something wrong.

I guess when Zipp makes their 999 carbon set in clincher, I will switch.

I wonder if any clincher wheelsets were used in the 2004 Athens Olympic TT?

On the other hand, when I flat (a clincher), I do stop the bike...

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

I don't believe any speed medal or World Record on the track has ever been done on a clincher. I don't think I have ever seen a TT in the Tour ever won on a clincher. I do think several Ironman Hawaii races have been won on a clincher. So who knows. I do know for a 40 k TT if you put 180 lbs in a tubular tire on a smooth road it feels fast as hell. G

To quote the Bunnyman:

"life is too short to ride clinchers"

What was Lance riding? :)

" disk wheels...yes they're faster, but not always..."

Which "not always" are they not faster?

"Which "not always" are they not faster? "

Kona?

http://www.3athlon.de/.../lisa/racereport.php

"I held onto my bike for dear life. Yes, it was physically hard, but it was the mental focus which was most draining. I was so afraid to be blown off of my bike. I would just steer my bike sideways into the wind and hope for the best. Thank goodness my non-aerobar position is still pretty aero, because I don't think I was on my bars for 20-30 minutes while I negotiated these crosswinds. Many people were blown off their bikes. One person was blown across the road, hit the guardrail and flipped over the rail and landed down a hill of lava rocks. Sister Madonna Buder was blown from her bike and I believe that she broke her collarbone. "

Beloki didn't crash because he rolled his tubular. He lost control of his bike in the turn and the rear wheel washed out, then grabbed and 'high sided' him, that's when his tire rolled. Any tire would have rolled under that kind of pressure.

And believe it or not, I'm watching the DVD right now!

---

TheBikeRacer.com

"Sister Madonna Buder was blown from her bike and I believe that she broke her collarbone. "

Most obviously an "act of God'.

As an agnostic, ex-Catholic, I couldn't resist. .)

Sorry, next time I'll post to the Lavender Room.

You are of course assuming that running ultra high pressure is the way to reduce rolling resistance. Unless you are racing on the track on most road surfaces lower pressure is actually better because the tire conforms to the ground instead of bouncing. That is why higher thread counts are slightly better and latex tubes are also better.

I think one of the advantages of tubulars is that they can be run at lower pressure with less risk of pinch flats. They also corner better in theory because the carcass is rounder, but I cant tell the difference in practice.

I ran tubulars for 15 years and just switched as I was tired of the 3 day gluing process and crappy braking on the carbon surface. I know the pro racers use them, but I dont have a spare wheel or ten with tires glued sitting in the team truck. I cant tell any difference. If you win on tubulars you can win on clinchers and vice versa. It is a little like the argument over steel vs other materials or campy vs shimano.......pointless.

I have never rolled a tubular.I did have a brand new conti.separate from the base tape in the circle in midland one year.That said I would fear a flat on a clincher over a tubie. every time.I ride tubies 99% of the time.I have even been using tubular clinchers on the Mtb.
Cullen

I thought you rolled a clincher once at the velodrome. Is this a mall story?

Abraham Olano won the World Championship Road Race in Columbia on a completely flat tubular he had to ride for a kilometer to the finish line with no wheel change. If you see the video- he is 25 mph flat out down to the rim. Amazing.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"These kind of "analytic" tests are easy to conduct, and as the saying goes "garbage in, garbage out." You may be able to convince a shut in engineering nerd that indeed a clincher is faster than a tubular, but I'm going to side with the guys with 20 plus years experience on this one... "

Your ignorance is showing. Have you read any of Jobst Brandt's trip reports of his Alps tours going back to the early 60's; day after day of 80-100+ miles with 8,000-12,000 ft of climbing. It's hard to characterize him as a shut in engineering nerd.

I agree about the testing. Like Dan Empfield says- "You can't test for that".

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com