For strength work, the lower the reps the better -- to a certain degree. There is no one way to get there. Different set and rep routines work for different people. The way I used to do it is warm up for a couple of sets, and then start the real work at 6 reps. Do 3 sets of 4-6 reps, all to failure and all with a spotter. We also used to go down to sets of 1-2 reps with very heavy weight, but you may not be comfortable doing that. Use a squat rack and free weights, not a Smith machine. Pay close attention to form, for it is very easy to hurt yourself doing squats. However, if you do them correctly, they will make your entire body stronger, and you will see the weight you can lift in all your exercises increase. The key is to keep the weights heavy and the reps low, and your form good.

RP

Tom,

I like to work until failure, then lighten the load and do some more until failure, then lighten the load again until failure. You have to have a spotter and good form. Start at 85% max, Then about 60% +/- max, Then 30% +/- max. 3 sets reps? It will tear down the muscles, The strength will not come until you fully recover. Eat right and strectch before you go to sleep to help with the soreness.

[reply]I need to increase the weight I can lift for 3 sets of 6 squats. My goal is 275lbs, my body weight is 162 lbs.

What sets and reps should I do to acheive this goal ASAP? Should I do 3x6 to failure? 3x3, 3x10, etc.

Thanks[/reply]

What can you do for 3x6 now? What's your 1-rep max? Are you looking to actually bulk up, or just add weight to the bar? What is your height? Why do you need to do this?

I'm not a big fan of taking a lot of lifts to failure, especially squats and deadlifts -- the potential for injury is too great. You're going to need to play around with it a lot, but you'll need to mix things like over-weight low rep sets with higher rep sets, and elements like front squats and possibly deadlifts to keep balance.

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I don't think you are really giving enough information to answer your question. That said, in general, if you are looking to increase strength for athletic rather than aesthetic reasons, I would strongly recomend a periodized weight program - I think this is essential, and it's why I can't answer your question.

What phase of lifting are you in/how long have you been in the gym? If you are a couple of weeks into a weight program, you probably shouldn't be doing max weight/low rep workouts. Ditto if you are putting in a ton of miles in other pursuits.

Roughly speaking, my weight training breaks down into 4 phases:

Adaptation/Hypertrophy (only 2-3 weeks long): 4 sets, 25 reps, moderate weight (squats in this phase peak at around 210lbs for me - I weigh 142lbs right now)

Basic strength(4 wks): Fewer reps, higher weight. 4 sets, 8-15 reps. (squats @300lbs for me)

Power or peak phase (3-4 weeks): max weight, explosive fast reps (5-8,) 3-4 sets. (Free squats up to 450lbs, hack squats around 900 for me)

Muscular endurance (3-4 weeks, although I usually have to cut this phase short to start racing...)
Light weights, reps to failure done VERY explosively. Some plyo work.

If you can follow some sort of plan like this, I guarantee you will get the squats up to where you want them - I did. Year to year, the improvement, if you track it, is pretty remarkable.

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As an ex-football player, we did a lot of squats.

Our main emphasis was on moderate sets, ie 12, 10, 8, 6 or 10, 8, 6, 4 in the bulking phases. Also did pyramid type workouts, 10, 8, 6, 8, 10.

Both types are good for builing muscle. Keep the max # of reps under 12, 15 at the MAX (recovery) if you want to build muscle.

Our usual workouts included 3/4 sets of squats, and then 3/4 sets of leg press with the same # of reps.

In 1-1.5 years, my squat improved from 300ish max to 400+ for a few reps, and leg press went from 800ish*6 to 1400*6.

At most, i weighed 180. Also, didnt do any other types of leg workouts, just these, and weighted calf raises. Dead lifts are good too, BUT FORM IS CRITICAL! when i did sprints in track, our coach wouldnt even let us touch a weight until we got the form right, if you are going to do these, make sure to get the form right first. Same with squats, read the posters or get a coach and have them make sure you are doing them right. And if you are working to failure, get a spotter as well.

Good luck and have fun lifting!!!

-kevin

P.S. As a friend used to say, your legs are untapped resources, they most likely have more left in them even when you think they are done, make them burn!!!

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Thanks for all the responses. Here is the additional info. that was requested.

I'm 6'1" tall, 162 lbs at about 8%-9% body fat (yeah I know the calipers aren't very accurate but at least you know I'm not carrying around 20 extra lbs). I'm following the periodized weight program from Friel/Training Bible. I'm done with the MS - Max Strength phase on upper body (upright row, lat pull down, etc) However, I have not been able to do MS on the lower body due to a marathon. I finished the marathon last week and am now ready to hit the squats hard.

Yesterday I did 6 reps at 135 lbs to warmup then 3x6 at 185 lbs. I'm still recovering from the marathon and I thought I'd start well within my abilities and practive perfect form. Also, I did not have a spotter this time although I will have a spotter from now on. I'm doing free weights inside a cage.

My only motivation for doing the squats is for triathlon performance. I've been a swimmer for a very long time so the upper body is well developed. I'm pretty new to cycling and my legs need more strength. According to Friel, I should have a goal of 3 sets of 6 reps at 275 lbs for squats in the MS phase.

I'm ready to go on to the ME phase in every area except squats and I'd like to get the MS phase over with before serious base training starts for this season. My first base period starts on Feb. 24. I don't know what my max weight is on squats, I'll find out Wed.

Thanks for all the help.

If you're lifting in a cage properly, you don't need a spotter (I've seen way too many injuries caused by the spotter to trust one in a cage).



Also, if your only reason is for triathlon performance, then throw Friel's arbitrary number out the window. Look to improve, don't put some one else's standards on you.



How toasted were you at the end of the 3x6 at 185?

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I felt like I could do 3 or 4 more sets of 6 at 185 lbs after doing 3x6. I like Friels number simply because it gives me a goal to work towards. There is obviously a point at which my time would be better spent running or biking, Also, I'd like to get out of the gym and outdoors as quickly as possible.

An interesting note: I can easily blow away Friel's goals for upper body but I'm nowhere close on the squats

Wow, finally I find someone else who has the exact same situation as me: upper body goals were no problem, nailed them in session 2 of MaxPower phase, but still can't get close to the squat goal.

Similar to you, always been strong in upper body from swimming, but need the strength on the bike this year. I have found since starting our club rides a few weeks ago & a few sessions on the velodrome track that my legs are significantly stronger than they were previously - even though I still have another 40lbs to get to my squat goal.

Once I realized that I was not going to hit the squat goal in 8-12 sessions, I decided to take a two-step approach: my Sunday session, I increase the weight by 10lbs, and do my 4x6. Then on Wed, I keep the same weight as Sunday and aim for 4x8 or 3x10. Next Sunday, increase by 10lbs. Doing this I have come closer than I think I would have by just slapping on more weights each session. And I'm not so bagged after Wed's session that I can't run the next day.

My 2 cents.

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Why the obsession with meeting weight lifting goals> Did you check out Frank Day's thread earlier this month. If you didn't check out this link.

cyclingnews.com http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ss/?id=strengthstern

"Heavy resistance training stimulates muscle fiber hypertrophy which reduces capillary density and mitocchondria volume. These changes are detrimental to endurance performance." Zatsiorsky - Science and Practice of Strength Training p.215


If you really still want to increase your squat check out the graduated lifting programs in Johnny Parker's Ultimate Weight Training Program.

He includes back squat as part of a full body program designed for football. The gradual nature of the program really works in building strength. 40 X 10 means 40 % of your max lift 10 reps- 60 X 2 X 10 means 60 % of max 2 sets 10 reps

week 1- -40 X 10 - 50 X 10 - 60 X 2 X 10 - 55 X 10

week 2 40 X 10 50 X 10 65 X 2 X 10 60 X 10

week 3 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 8 - 70 X 8 -65 X 2 X 8

week 4 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 3 X 5

week 5 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 6 67.5 X 6 75 X 6 65 X 2 X 6

week 6 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 6 70 X 5 80 X 5 75 X 5 70 X 5

week 7 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 5 70 X 4 77.5 X 4 85 X 4 80 X 5

week 8 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 X 5 70 X 3 X 5

week 9 40 X 10 50 X 10 60 x 5 70 X 3 80 X 3 X 3

he adds front squats at lighter weight also 1 day a week. A second day of 10 % less back squat would be similar. week 4 is only 1 day

Leaving aside the debate about whether lifting is relevant at all, personally I'm not convinced, here are some suggestions.

First, make sure your form is good. Here's a great article that covers all the form elements:

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_120squat.html

As per the above article, you might consider doing all your squatting off a box for maximal safety and gains.

Consdier getting this gizmo:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/homegym/mantaray.html

It slips on the bar and distributes the weight very nicely on your shoulders and makes squatting much more comfortable, especially if you're skrawny and angular like me :p.

Now you're ready for an actual approach. If you can get in the gym every day for 30min, then I'd try the following given where you're at and where you want to get to:

- squat every day, 2 sets, 5 reps each
- 1st set should be heavy, a weight you could probably squat about 6 or seven times max
- do the second set with 90% of the first set weight
- NEVER go to failure, if you can't make the rep, back off
- rest 3-5 min between sets, this is IMPORTANT
- increase the weight gradually by no more than 5-10 lbs per day
- when you start to feel like you're topping off, drop the weight down by 20-30% and start to build up again, this is a kind of wave cycle
- since you'll be adding weight continously, start off with a weight you think you could handle for 10 reps, probably ~170 based on your post.

Read about the reasoning here:
http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=69
And here:
http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=2

Stick with this and you might be amazed at the results. Of course, if it doesn't work at all, write back and I might suggest something else.

Have fun.

Your 2 sets 5 reps each isn't much different than Parker's program. His first couple of sets are more warmup sets, which are essential. We don't want to tell any one how to destroy their bodies by going in cold to attempt a max lift. Also a build up phase into more heavy work makes sense.

Again we need to look at what our objective is. I don't think Louie Simmons training for powerlifting is relevant for triathletes.

Training is very sport specific. In this regard Friel's discussion of foot placement for squatting is relevant. Shoulder width pointing straight ahead as if on a bike.

Personally I think some lifting is good especially for older athlete's to maintain muscle. And I have found leg work helpful in preventing running injuries. But powerlifting type strength is definitely contraindicated.

There are a lot of tricks like 1-1/4 reps and rack squats that will help get you through sticking points. One of the best tricks I've used to get a heavy set is overweight holds. Basically, you take your work weight and add 50 lbs (this should get you over your 1-rep max). Get under the bar and set up like you're going to do the lift. Unrack the weight and set up, but just stand there -- don't descend with it. Hold that for 20 seconds and rerack it. Now go to our work weight and do your set. That weight will feel like a feather on your back by comparison, and should get you through at least 3 reps.

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Good point, I should have mentioned something about warming up. You're absolutely right that in this situation a warm-up is a great idea.

I tried to get away from the whole sport-specific thing since, like you said, I haven't seen any compelling evidence that this kind of strength training should help endurance athletes whatsoever, and just tried to get at the poster's question of how to reach his goal.

I see your point, though, about the specificity of the training. Now the kind of squat you're describing would primarily load the quads, wouldn't it? Powerlifters, as you no doubt know, these days really focus on involving their hamstrings, glutes, hips, and back. It makes me wonder if squatting is at all relevant, then, if what you're after is quad development. Wouldn't leg press do, plyometrics, depth jumps, step ups, single-leg squats(pistols - probably the best of the bunch)? So much of squatting, of any kind, involves building a very strong core and back. Isn't that just a waste of time for this application?

Well, getting back on track. If one is determined to work Friel's program(who am I to question the guy afterall) then use his form advice combined with a warm-up, then 2 sets/5 reps once a day, and periodize the weight. The approach works for a lot of people and should work better than most protocols.