have you not read anything on ST the past year.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Generally doesn't give much information on what you actually gain from it other than the fun of comparing yourself to others you're riding with. I should have rephrased is a Smart Trainer actually worth spending money on as oppose to not spending a minimum of $300 or even as much as $1,000 when I can just continue to do what I'm doing.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Yes, indoor riding will become more enjoyable.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I recently went from a Kurt Kinetic to an Elite Direto paired with Zwift, and for me, indoor training has gotten waaaaay more fun and enjoyable. The time passes far more quickly, and I push myself a lot harder than I ever did on the Kurt Kinetic. And, it's not just about comparing yourself to others...for me, it's more about trying to beat past PRs on various hill climbs or segments, although I'll occasionally try to hang with somebody going harder than me or try to drop somebody else.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

It all really depends on you and your discipline... I got to my (almost) peak FTP while using a Kirt Kinetic Road Machine with no smarts. I just rode the KKRM workouts on their free app and got pretty strong. I switched to TrainerRoad because I like their structured workouts. That helped me get stronger. Last year I upgraded to a KICKR. The smart trainer helps me train "easier," in that I just sit and ride-- I do not have to focus on hitting the specific power and cadence targets in the plan. However, I did just fine with that on the dumb trainer.

I love Zwift. I have been racing a lot this year and it has helped me out greatly. I have a dumb trainer and as much as I would love to drop $1k on a smart trainer the good of that trainer does not come close to outweighing the $1k that I would lose with that new trainer. I can do so much more with that $1k in my life. But either way Zwift is amazing if you use it properly and are interested in it. So for me, yes to Zwift, no to smart trainer.

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Twitter - Instagram

I found the answer no to both Zwift and a smart trainer. Tried them out and realized I was just fine using a Road Machine and sufferfest/YouTube races/other stuff + music. But then again I found out years ago how to just ride the trainer without becoming insanely bored or whatever others complain about.

Guess I’m just decent at shutting my brain off and holding a number.

Smart trainer + Zwift changed my world.
Had a cyclops fluid, switched to magnus + Zwift and I get so much more out of my indoor rides. Hit outdoors last weekend and experienced gains instead of falloff or flatline through the winter indoors.

Keep in mind it also requires a smart plan, not just Zwift racing or touring rides every workout.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Do you have a power meter yet? If not, start there. A power meter + any dumb trainer will get you 90%+ of what a smart trainer will get you and you'll have power outdoors as a bonus. A power meter is way more bang for the buck than any smart trainer.

As for Zwift, it is great, but, it's primary benefit is combating trainer boredom. So, if you can still get yourself on your trainer and finish your workouts, you do not "need" Zwift Its nice, but not a necessity, at least until you start skipping workouts because you can't stand the trainer . . . .

I ride Zwift with a power meter and dumb trainer and I find it just fine. When on Zwift, I'm either riding "alone' with a watt target in mind or, if in a group ride or race, I'm trying to keep up with someone. in either case, I don't need my trainer to simulate terrain if I have my wattage on a screen. I'm sure dropping a grand on a smart trainer would make Zwift a little more interesting but it is not necessary. Until I can no longer bring myself to do a trainer ride, i will always seem to have something else I'd rather spend a grand on instead of a smart trainer.

I have used a dumb fluid trainer for years and then got a smart trainer. I've never used trainerroad, but Sufferfest and Zwift.

I will go against the grain here and say that Zwift was incredibly boring - I couldn't care less about some computer generated graphic and the visuals of a video game. I never did a 'race' but random training in Zwift is just like some fartlek training on a fluid trainer.

My favorite indoor rides are simple Sufferfest videos on the fluid trainer - just follow the instructions and by the end of the training I'm absolutely spent. So it was valuable. No calibration, just get on the trainer and ride. In fact I recently bought some simple old school rollers (Kinetic Z rollers) which are fun to ride on for recovery workouts. I just listen to my ipod in that case.

Writing this response just made me realize I should just sell my Kickr Snap...

I'd mirror jrielley's comments.

If you have a PM you don't need a smart trainer. If you don't have a PM but do have a dumb trainer that's stable with well modelled virtual power you can also enjoy Zwift without needing to invest in a smart trainer.

I use a KK Road Machine with Zwift (no PM) and find it very enjoyable and hugely beneficial compared to non-Zwift trainer sessions which I'd used but hated prior to starting Zwifting in Oct 2016. There is some additional uncertainty about the accuracy of your power figures but repeatability is good and that's the most important thing. Many other trainers are not nearly as good and may may not be realistic options without a PM (Cyclops Fluid 2 for example which dramatically changes resistance as the fluid temperature changes).

The benefits of a smart trainer are:

1. Terrain simulation (resistance varies to reflect the gradient of the virtual road)
2. ERG mode (trainer controls power at a pre-determined level so long as you can keep the pedals turning which allows you execute programmed workouts without watching the power numbers)

Terrain simulation would be nice, I don't find it essential on the trainer or on Zwift. It's absolutely usable without it.
ERG mode holds no attraction for me. I've tried it and do not like it. Besides, STers do like to talk about the benefits of specificity, which seems at odds with using ERG. Surely the mental aspect of modulating power for yourself is relevant?

Give Zwift a go. Don't they still do a free trial? It's made a huge difference to my cycle training both in terms of enjoyment and performance. Some people don't seem to like it, in which case just ditch it again and don't pay.

I'm in the market for a Kickr Snap, so just send it my way!

Yes. Zwift is a game changer. Racing is incredible. I can stack up a couple races and some warm up and cool down and easily kill 3hrs for my weekend long ride with really quality work.

I do not have a power meter. One item on a long list of wants that often get pushed down by needs.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

It seems you're comparing random riding around on Zwift to structured Sufferfest sessions. Surely you should compare structured Zwift sessions with structured Sufferfest.
Just riding around on Zwift isn't going to fill you with glee. I think you missed the point of Zwift. As someone put it in another thread recently, Zwift is a "place" to do your training. You still need to decide what you want to do. It can be a structured workout like your Sufferfest session or it can be a race or group ride. Or you can do focused solo efforts to try and beat your own personal records on specific climbs or laps.

Spot,

1) when you changed from the KK --> direto did you notice a change in watts?( my KK was around 50 higher than the direto. It doesnt really matter which one is/was correct. I think I wasnt calibrating the KK correctly).

2) with the direto do you notice a perceived effort change if changing from small --> big ring (seems easier for me).

i love the direto but was curious if anyone else had either of the above happen (or seem to happen).

If you are serious about getting faster and train indoors, a smart trainer is a MUST! For me, Trainerroad is a much more useful program for tracking and improving performance! Honestly, have not tried Zwift but heard it's more a "fun" novelty program to make your time on the trainer more enjoyable and not a program to get the most out of your time on the trainer.....

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Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com

I would say smart trainers fall into the luxury product category. They can be nice but you are better off spending money on software or a power meter.

Zwift, Trainer Road, etc help provide structure to your training and reduce boredom. There are endless threads on here about the pros and cons of the various systems and different software works best for different people. My opinion is Zwift is the answer if boredom is the problem while Trainer Road is the answer if a lack of structure is the problem and all the other programs are sub-par mixtures of the previous. Keep in mind that these options aren't that cheap, Zwift is $180 a year, so unless you have one of the aforementioned problem or extra cash its a tough call.

Power meters really help improve the quality of indoor workouts. 95+% of the benefit of a smart trainer is the power meter its just packaged in a fancy way. You gain the ability to target threshold zones and repeatedly hit intervals in a way that you can't do with just heart rate or perceived level of exertion. For this reason I second the opinion that you buy a power meter before upgrading to a smart trainer. At the same time a power meter won't motivate you to get on your bike more like the software can and its time on the bike that makes you faster.

Same boat here, kickr + Trainer Road. I did briefly try zwift, but I found the racing more about just going full tilt for as long as you could, not really a structured workout. And I really don't find watching a computer rider on the screen all that entertaining. So I prefer the structured workouts in TR, have it run on my laptop, and watch music or race videos on the TV, or Netflix, etc.

Oh, and I MUCH prefer to have the kickr, instead of a dumb trainer + power meter. The kickr takes all the thought out of it, changes resistance for you.

Pretty much describes my situation too - currently using a Cycleops Fluid 2, no power.

I assume the Zpower numbers are off, but even without following a set training plan Zwift has managed to make indoor riding tolerable (even enjoyable) enough that I now find myself riding 2-3 nights per week, which has helped with weekend rides where I need to keep up with actual real-life people. I'd tried YouTube/Sufferfest videos before but got bored quickly with them. Likewise watching TV shows/movies or even play XBox games.

When the Fluid 2 finally dies I might consider a smart trainer but I'll cross that rickety wooden bridge across a jungle ravine when I get to it :)

True to some degree but whether I do structured training on Zwift or I do that same structured training without Zwift, for me Zwift itself doesn't add anything. I couldn't care less about volcanos and wattopia and digital graphics. Digital graphics aren't going to affect the quality of my workout so if it doesn't add anything I don't need it. I also have zero interest in imaginary segments - I only care about real ones out on the real road.

A sufferfest training is something I don't need a smart trainer for - I can do it on a dumb trainer just as well.

While I understand what you're saying, the same sort of rationale could be applied to Sufferfest. Why do you prefer Sufferfest over simply looking at your watch or bike computer?

You use Sufferfest for motivation and/or timing of efforts. Zwift does the same thing in a different way, plus some other features which may or may not be of interest. I doubt many people care much about the graphics as a form of special entertainment. They provide context and coordination. Again, comparing to Sufferfest, why does it matter if the video shows a real road, is in colour, or shows cyclists. It could just be text on a screen. Does it matter......yes

1) IIRC, my Kurt Inride seemed to read about the same as the Direto, if not a bit lower. That being said, I was never quite sure about the Inride, because after my first calibration with spin down, it would almost never spin down again...I'd be doing 20mph according to the Inride for 5+ minutes and it would never decide to spin down.

2) My current bike on the Direto has shifting issues, so for right now I'm big chain ring only.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

+1

Although relatively new to this whole thing, I'm using a Kickr Snap + Trainer Road and I think it's awesome. I'm totally hooked to the point where I almost don't want to ride outside. Since I'm new to biking, my FTP is low, but based on the TR training plan, I expect I'll see significant improvements. TR also has half and full distance training plans, which I'm told are good. I haven't tried Zwift because I'm less interested in the gamification aspects, but probably will since people rave about it.